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post #1621 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 07:20 AM
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Fine. I won't mess with the last remaining Lumagen Loyalists anymore.

The last "fact" I will mention... I have nearly 60,000 hits on my site and have been asked thousands of questions. I can count on one hand how many we're about VPs and the thumb does not count as a finger. However, I have had a ton of questions about the Darblet lately. Sure it costs less which pulls in much more interest but this is definitely saying something. This and the pretty strong market penetration it is already having. smile.gif

I won't post in here again unless it is 100% about the Darblet only. eek.gifwink.gif

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post #1622 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 07:36 AM
 
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Joe did you see my pics earlier..............not using any enhancement?

Or anyone for that matter?confused.gif
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post #1623 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jasjw View Post

Please can all people using a Dune HD report back, With settings if its working ok for playing Blu Ray files ISO& M2TS.
Mine still wont play them in colour, Just green.

I second that! smile.gif

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post #1624 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Simple solution for many here (though not popular) is to just dump your Lumagen processors.
smile.gif

And get a Duo! tongue.gif. I just had too throw it into the fire. Hee hee!
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post #1625 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I just had too throw it into the fire. Hee hee!

yes, if i had a Duo i'd also probably use it as firewood too..... smile.gif

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post #1626 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 08:25 AM
 
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yes, if i had a Duo i'd also probably use it as firewood too..... smile.gif

LOL.biggrin.gif
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post #1627 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

yes, if i had a Duo i'd also probably use it as firewood too..... smile.gif

Awesome response!biggrin.gif

What I don't get is why does the Duo work in different color space with the Darblet and the Lumangen doesn't? I would think the Lumagen would require the firmware update not the Darblet.
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post #1628 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

What I don't get is why does the Duo work in different color space with the Darblet and the Lumangen doesn't? I would think the Lumagen would require the firmware update not the Darblet.

And I think we have a winner! smile.gif

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post #1629 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post


What I don't get is why does the Duo work in different color space with the Darblet and the Lumangen doesn't? I would think the Lumagen would require the firmware update not the Darblet.
We don't have enough information to know which should be updated. Keep in mind the Lumagen-display interface works perfectly - it does not work when the Darbee is inserted between them so that points towards the Darbee. Regardless I think both Lumagen and Darbee have the smarts to figure out whose firmware needs tweaking. It would have been more convenient for Lumagen owners to flash our Radiances rather than ship off our Darbee's but if that what it takes to make both boxes play well together and be right then that's what it takes....

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post #1630 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

We don't have enough information to know which should be updated. Keep in mind the Lumagen-display interface works perfectly - it does not work when the Darbee is inserted between them so that points towards the Darbee. Regardless I think both Lumagen and Darbee have the smarts to figure out whose firmware needs tweaking. It would have been more convenient for Lumagen owners to flash our Radiances rather than ship off our Darbee's but if that what it takes to make both boxes play well together and be right then that's what it takes....

This really is a good example at how screwed up HDMI is. God knows how many scenarios lead to the same result with any command. I have run in all possible modes with my Duo and the Darblet never screwed up the color space with the new firmware. I also found it odd that people were changing input color space to the Lumagen and it changed the results on the output. Maybe that's the difference. The Duo's inputs are separated from the output handshake in a different way compared to the Lumagen processors. Why a media player doesn't work and a bluray player does is another issue. I may try my Sony media player to see what happens.
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post #1631 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 09:25 AM
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I can confirm what we already know - the latest Darbee that was shipped to AVS about a week ago does not work with my Radiance XS without forcing it to output RGB. For reference I am using this with the Sony VW95 (although from other reports the display used doesn't seem to matter).

I will keep my Darbee review brief. IMO the Darbee is a must-have. It is that simple. Most people describe it as a sharpening enhancement, which it does help with because things do get more defined. However for me I really feel it is more of a focus enhancement. For example imagine taking your current focus and manually defocusing it. Not just a tiny bit but enough for things to get a bit blurry. Now imagine what that looks like compared to your perfectly focused image. OK, now imagine that difference of an improvement, but going from your perfectly focused unit to an even more perfectly focused unit! Well that's the improvement I get. Details are nicely enhanced too, like in beards/hair, all sorts of textures etc. And its not just with still-frames. When watching the picture it really does adds another dimension to the realism. When people say the Darbee is like getting an upgraded projector I have to agree with that. I would never want to run without the Darbee, at least in some tamed amount of it. Yes it makes that much of a different IMO. At least with my VW95.

For my tastes I have to use it in moderation or the picture looks too processed/overly digital. I didn't get much time to play around with it. For some HDTV I liked in the low to mid 40's on the HD Darbee setting. But Letterman looked way to processed to me at that setting. I dropped it back to 38% which made it still look a little processed but yet acceptable. So there is of course a tradeoff - as you decrease it the picture looks less processed but also has less advantage from the Darbee. Fortunately the 1% controls give enough flexibility for folks to find a good balance based on their tests. A/B testing between a zoomed-in face at 38% vs no Darbee was still a nice improvement, for example.

It was late so I didn't have much time to view too many things. I watched select scenes from LOTR 1and was rather amazed at how clear it made things look. It was really enjoyable. So much so that I now feel compelled to go through my favorites and watch them all over again, just like people will do when they get a new projector. I put on "Up" and at the 38% it didn't make too much of a difference. I had to raise it closer to 50% to get a difference and yet it was not over processed. If I have to find on fault is that each movie/video may have its own ideal setting, and I really don't want to mess with it. I'd rather set it once and then leave it there for everything. If I wind up doing that I will probably settle on 38-41%.

Oh, something I didn't see noted in this thread is that in the Advanced menu you can set the brightness of the LEDs. I am really happy about that because by default they are way too bright. Fortunately there is a dimmest setting which is slight so you can still see it is on and working without it being a nuisance.

Question for Darbee owners: What are the various modes like HD, GAME, POP etc supposed to do? I read other posts saying they didn't like POP because it was over the top and just used HD etc. So with this in mind I did my viewing only in HD. But at the end of the night I switched between all these modes and it didn't seem to make any difference. I had a still frame and hit HD and it showed "Darbee 38%" in green.Then I hit POP and it showed "Darbee 38%" in red (or yellow can't remember) but the picture didn't change at all. Same thing when I hit GAME mode. As I switched from one to the other it didn't matter. If I turned it on/off then I saw it working, but the mode didn't seem to make any difference. Is something broken or do I just not understand what these modes are and how to use them?
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post #1632 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 09:34 AM
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Well that's strange. I have not tried pop or game since the new firmware was loaded but you could see the difference in the past.
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post #1633 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 09:49 AM
 
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Joe did you see my pics earlier..............not using any enhancement?
Or anyone for that matter?confused.gif

Anyone?
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post #1634 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 09:57 AM
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Anyone?

I thought they look great! Love that eshift option!

But what's up with the blotchy reds in the faces? An lcos panel issue? tongue.gif

Just kidding really they look great. I am very impressed with the new JVC's. Worried about the bulbs though. How has yours been so far?


Oops....sorry I thought you posted JVC images....I see its a Samsung! Is that a plasma?
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post #1635 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I thought they look great! Love that eshift option!
But what's up with the blotchy reds in the faces? An lcos panel issue? tongue.gif
Just kidding really they look great. I am very impressed with the new JVC's. Worried about the bulbs though. How has yours been so far?
Oops....sorry I thought you posted JVC images....I see its a Samsung! Is that a plasma?

Sorry that's a Samsung 59" D6900 Plasma.wink.gif

Edit, you beat me to it. Just trying to show that with a decent calibration that 3D pop can be achieved quite easily.smile.gif

PS
I can only dream of getting a lumagen.eek.gif
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post #1636 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:08 AM
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Sorry that's a Samsung 59" D6900 Plasma.wink.gif

I really like the Samsung plasmas! I suggested last years model to a friend of mine. The D8000 line! Best bang for the buck. Was very impressed with the 3D quality too. I read the review for your TV...it was very good!
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post #1637 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post


Awesome response!biggrin.gif
What I don't get is why does the Duo work in different color space with the Darblet and the Lumangen doesn't? I would think the Lumagen would require the firmware update not the Darblet.


Sounds reasonable, but it just doesn't happen to be that way.

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post #1638 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

Sorry that's a Samsung 59" D6900 Plasma.wink.gif
Edit, you beat me to it. Just trying to show that with a decent calibration that 3D pop can be achieved quite easily.smile.gif
PS
I can only dream of getting a lumagen.eek.gif

If you watch mostly 1080 you don't need a VP. The Samsung as a cms so it can be calibrated. I have a Duo because I needed video switching and a cms. I had a lumagen HDQ before the Duo and loved it but the Duo is much sharper with 1080 video. The HDQ was good with 480 video though. I just couldn't see spending over $3k for video switching getting a Radiance. My sound system is separates with no video switching so I needed a VP and the Duo has a ton and works great.
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post #1639 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


Sounds reasonable, but it just doesn't happen to be that way.

Because HDMI is a mess IMHO! Still like I have said some manufacturers get it right...others don't!

Not knocking Lumagen...that was directed at Darbeevision. I feel bad for them but they need a better HDMI expert. That's what they called him..."Expert!" Not!
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post #1640 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

If you watch mostly 1080 you don't need a VP. The Samsung as a cms so it can be calibrated. I have a Duo because I needed video switching and a cms. I had a lumagen HDQ before the Duo and loved it but the Duo is much sharper with 1080 video. The HDQ was good with 480 video though. I just couldn't see spending over $3k for video switching getting a Radiance. My sound system is separates with no video switching so I needed a VP and the Duo has a ton and works great.

Yeah i know but i would love the extra control over WB, Gamma etc.........but i can dream.rolleyes.gif

Sorry about going OT, just trying to show what can be achieved.smile.gif
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post #1641 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:35 AM
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Something else I discovered is my replacement Darblet says the rating is 5v, 1.5 amps on the bottom yet the replacement supply they sent me is only a 1 amp power supply.

I decided to stick to my 3 amp power supply instead. The Darblet may be right near 1 amp and that's why my first power supply died so quickly. I thought it said 1 amp before I sent it in for the firmware update...maybe they sent me a new replacement instead of the one I had sent back.
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post #1642 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

Yeah i know but i would love the extra control over WB, Gamma etc.........but i can dream.rolleyes.gif
Sorry about going OT, just trying to show what can be achieved.smile.gif

That is one thing I miss...storing multiple gamma curves when I had the Lumagen HDQ. I can only store two curves with my Duo. I could do four with the HDQ.
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post #1643 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post


Question for Darbee owners: What are the various modes like HD, GAME, POP etc supposed to do? I read other posts saying they didn't like POP because it was over the top and just used HD etc. So with this in mind I did my viewing only in HD. But at the end of the night I switched between all these modes and it didn't seem to make any difference. I had a still frame and hit HD and it showed "Darbee 38%" in green.Then I hit POP and it showed "Darbee 38%" in red (or yellow can't remember) but the picture didn't change at all. Same thing when I hit GAME mode. As I switched from one to the other it didn't matter. If I turned it on/off then I saw it working, but the mode didn't seem to make any difference. Is something broken or do I just not understand what these modes are and how to use them?

Game is kind of between HD and Full Pop, but to my eyes looks not as good with standard type sources....bluray, HDTV, photography, etc. I haven't tried any games yet as not much of a gamer, and don't know how it does with CGI films compared to the other two. Full pop is the most aggressive attempt in the technology, in this first release, to attempt to increase roundness and depth without glasses. It also will in each's own system more quickly get to a point where you do not want to go higher. Some little things happen between letters and copy on screen and the black drop shadow effects can start becoming too heavy. But it is great to experiment with to see if you'd like to use at a comfortable level to you with brightly lit outdoor and indoor scenes. Sports for instance....football and baseball look terrific with it. I found a level on The Art of Flying in full pop as opposed to HD mode that I used. Not much in the way of copy or lettering going on there. I could change the same setting to HD on the fly and it is still a vast difference with that movie than with processing off. But first and foremost for reasons started many years before the term "Home Theater" was ever introduced, I have been very interested in the illusion of depth in 2D large images. So will use full pop whenever I find clean enough programming and lighting conditions that will support it in my system over the HD mode.
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post #1644 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Nima View Post

I second that! smile.gif

I am not an owner of a Dune. And I don't know if this will help, but at this site: http://www.mpcclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26878 there's this:

"The DUNE will read the EDID of the display device and output the highest color space supported by the display and the DUNE. Unfortunately the DUNE does not support 422 only 444.

You don't need to worry about setting Rec709 on the DUNE for BD playback as the DUNE does the properly for BD iso and folder structure when set to auto mode.

craigr"

and:

"...if you set the DUNE to DVI mode is will output RGB 444 instead of YCbCr 444...

craigr"

Might be worth trying as a workaround until things get "fixed".

Steve Schaffer
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post #1645 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

We don't have enough information to know which should be updated. Keep in mind the Lumagen-display interface works perfectly - it does not work when the Darbee is inserted between them so that points towards the Darbee. Regardless I think both Lumagen and Darbee have the smarts to figure out whose firmware needs tweaking. It would have been more convenient for Lumagen owners to flash our Radiances rather than ship off our Darbee's but if that what it takes to make both boxes play well together and be right then that's what it takes....

I'm no engineer but it seems that there's a bit of a Tower of Babel taking place among devices. The "language" is EDID and the players often "misinterpret" what's being sent/received among the players. Blame is not the problem but there probably is no central clearinghouse for all manufacturers to go to for clarity of the rules. May just be that no matter who's right, it's up to the low man on the totem pole to "get it right" -- in this case DarbeeVision. Seems similar to the PC world, where it's the guy selling the add-on who had better get their device driver working with the OS or they're SOL.

Steve Schaffer
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post #1646 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 11:59 AM
 
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Sorry to keep going on (again) but i have only had one lot of feedback on my pics.....also Joe disappeared?
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post #1647 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 12:08 PM
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Game is kind of between HD and Full Pop, but to my eyes looks not as good with standard type sources....bluray, HDTV, photography, etc. I haven't tried any games yet as not much of a gamer, and don't know how it does with CGI films compared to the other two. Full pop is the most aggressive attempt in the technology, in this first release, to attempt to increase roundness and depth without glasses. It also will in each's own system more quickly get to a point where you do not want to go higher. Some little things happen between letters and copy on screen and the black drop shadow effects can start becoming too heavy. But it is great to experiment with to see if you'd like to use at a comfortable level to you with brightly lit outdoor and indoor scenes. Sports for instance....football and baseball look terrific with it. I found a level on The Art of Flying in full pop as opposed to HD mode that I used. Not much in the way of copy or lettering going on there. I could change the same setting to HD on the fly and it is still a vast difference with that movie than with processing off. But first and foremost for reasons started many years before the term "Home Theater" was ever introduced, I have been very interested in the illusion of depth in 2D large images. So will use full pop whenever I find clean enough programming and lighting conditions that will support it in my system over the HD mode.

So should I easily be able to see a different in a still-frame as I switch between POP and HD mode? I wonder why I could not. I will experiment some more.
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post #1648 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

Anyone?

Barry....those are excellent screen shots. Really. From a flat panel here on AVS maybe the best I've happened to come across. And you have the plasma really dialed in great. That kind of excellence plus the quality of that motion picture and transfer is the best possible scenario for finding some level, for you, in HD mode with the Darbee processing. This is why your original gut response was you liked it. I remember reading in one of the forums before it seems to have disappeared...."spectacular" even was mentioned. It was too bad you had some of the ongoing HDMI rat's nest problems so you really couldn't have more time with it and really experimented.

I am REALLY impressed with where plasmas are now. I helped my fellow A/V friend and geek on the corner carry in his new 65" panny plasma a couple of weeks ago. He may never have it calibrated but wow it looked really good even out of the box. I turned him on to the Darblet and he will probably get his from AVS the same day as my 2nd one arrives to use with my Sammy 61" LED DLP. Can't wait to see his set with it when it comes. When my set dies this is what I will be buying.....the latest plasma. I was amazed how thin almost like the LCDs now they are too. If I remember correctly he said something like only 65 watts to run now? That should help with heat a lot too that they used to produce so much of.
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post #1649 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 12:11 PM
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That is one thing I miss...storing multiple gamma curves when I had the Lumagen HDQ. I can only store two curves with my Duo. I could do four with the HDQ.

You can store as many as you want if you use 'DVDO iScan Duo Control Panel'.
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post #1650 of 8368 Old 08-04-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sjschaff View Post

I am not an owner of a Dune. And I don't know if this will help, but at this site: http://www.mpcclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26878 there's this:
"The DUNE will read the EDID of the display device and output the highest color space supported by the display and the DUNE. Unfortunately the DUNE does not support 422 only 444.
You don't need to worry about setting Rec709 on the DUNE for BD playback as the DUNE does the properly for BD iso and folder structure when set to auto mode.
craigr"
and:
"...if you set the DUNE to DVI mode is will output RGB 444 instead of YCbCr 444...
craigr"
Might be worth trying as a workaround until things get "fixed".

Still no luck mate but thanks for taking your time in searching and posting. I will post my problem on their forums.

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