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post #2071 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post


No. I have the Radiance after the AVR because it is the XD.


Your suggestion would also be possible for me, since all sources go through my ARV (3008 in pass through).    So the AVR could go to he Darb and then to the RadianceMIni and pj.   Worth a try.   Could send 444 from sources to Darb, 444 out of it to the Rad, and 422 out of it to the pj.

 

Will be a week, though, before I can try it:  had eye surgery yesterday and have to be face-down for 7 days.    (At least have a rig that let's me do email!)

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post #2072 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post

This threat needs less emotion and more facts. There is more hyperbole about this little device than discussions in the Theta forum.
I do not own a Darbee, as I'm still reading and learning plus even if I get one I would want the bugs worked out first. I am not committed either way. It certainly sounds intriguing and the price is reasonable. And while I try to be a purist, I will admit that I do enjoy an image with pop (currently have an LED projector) more than the image I experienced with my prior projector (Qualia 004) regardless of which is most accurate.
Howver, reading this site one gets that sense that many early adopters are so defensive about their purchase that they can't wait to pounce on anyone with a contrary opinion. Some of you need to step back, take a breath, and realize that this is an AV forum and not the presidential elections.
I'm waiting for the post that describes how the Darbee colorized someone's collection of old B&W films and they are now more enjoyable than the original so this must be how they should be viewed. Oh wait, Ted Turner already did that. Maybe he's an investor.
A perfect example occured earlier today when a member criticized the UK review by making totally false comments. The author of the review specifically stated that he only posted pictures set at 70% so readers could see what he was experiencing at lower settings. To state otherwise and then imply "evil" intentions is disingenuous at best.
Can we please have a discussion with less hysteria and fewer personal attacks?
You will need to read this entire thread if you really want to get the background debate between the UK "film traditionalists", AVS member observations & AV reviewers.

Short story; they believe the PQ should not be altered in any way at all even if it improves the PQ with no visible artifacts.

Yes, there are bugs to be worked out with specific devices or actions but if you are not satisfied, you can return the unit in 30 days. Then wait until all bugs are worked out or work around the bugs and wait for updates. No one is held hostage to keep using the Darbee. You will find even though bugs are found, I dont believe any of the members with bugs have said the Darbee process/PQ is not performing to expectations or worth the cost.

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post #2073 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 07:47 AM
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IMO the Darbee has something to offer everyone. Between the 3 modes (HD, GAME, POP) and 0 - 120% settings adjustable in 1% increments, it can be fine tuned to taste. Of course there is a trade off because the less aggressive you set the Darbee, the less benefit you get from the processing. You can have it anywhere from hardly noticeable, to subtle, to significant, to over the top. I am not a purist but I would think that somehow who is would still enjoy the Darbee at 30-35% in HD mode. When run like this the image is clearer, appears more in focus with more detail showing, with certain areas a little brighter than the original (highlights). I prefer the effect higher, such as near 50% because I find the image looks even better that way, even if a little more processed. And for some content like animated movies I like it even stronger such as POP mode at 65%. In this mode the image is clearly altered, but in an enjoyable way for me. I think of the Darbee as an eye candy device - an artificial sweetener if you will. Use just a little or a lot, whatever the mood. If someone A/Bed two identical projectors - one with Darbee on HD at 35% and one without Darbee - and these projectors were branded under different names - I would think the unit with the Darbee would easily outsell the others. JMO.
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post #2074 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

What mode and lower settings was he evaluating? He doesn't say. How can you criticize a device for causing an image appear over-enhanced when there are controls to easily reduce the effect so it's not over-enhanced?

I think the main thrust of their viewpoint was that any enhancement is "over-enhanced" because it's altering the image versus a "reference" device.

Personally, I'm much more interested in a "pleasing" image (to me) than a "reference" image. I could really care less what the "artist's intention" was. I want to enjoy it the way I want to enjoy it.

For the same reason, I calibrate my projector, and then generally add a touch more saturation (except in flesh tones). I'm most certainly running with "less fidelity" than when I calibrated, but it's more pleasing to me, and that's all that I give two ...ummm... cents about.

Frankly, with a projector like my LCOS that doesn't have 100% perfect convergence, one could argue that this display technology by its nature "artificially softens" the image, and that the Darblet could help restore that "fidelity".

Not an argument I want to get in to, I just want to see if the Darblet makes the image more pleasing to me.
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post #2075 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

No. I have the Radiance after the AVR because it is the XD.

I'm not too familiar with the XD. I have the XS. I have all my sources routed to its input, then one of the XS outputs goes to the projector and the other XS output goes to the AVR. At any rate I am not too concerned - Although I have not heard anything back from them just yet I am confident that Lumagen will come up with a fix/workaround for the magenta flash.
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post #2076 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 08:08 AM
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Ordered a Darblet yesterday and can't hardly wait to test it out.

Have one question regarding where i should place the Darblet in my setup. I have a Pioneer AVR with two HDMI outputs, one for my plasma & the other for my projector. Will use the Darblet for the projector.
My blu-ray player (oppo93) is also connected to the AVR.

Where should i place the Darblet in this chain?
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post #2077 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 09:16 AM
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Okay guys quick question - I own a krp 500m but don't have access to a isf calibrator as I am in Asia. I have tweaked the tv using Controlcal and using d-nice settings. It looks pretty good and I use isf-day all the time. By using this thing can my tv look atleast as good as those with an isf calibration?
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post #2078 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I'm not too familiar with the XD. I have the XS. I have all my sources routed to its input, then one of the XS outputs goes to the projector and the other XS output goes to the AVR. At any rate I am not too concerned - Although I have not heard anything back from them just yet I am confident that Lumagen will come up with a fix/workaround for the magenta flash.

The XD I have has not been converted to the XE so that is why I do it this way. They are the same except that I can not pass lossless codects through my lumagen. I also do not have 3d pass through

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post #2079 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post

Ordered a Darblet yesterday and can't hardly wait to test it out.
Have one question regarding where i should place the Darblet in my setup. I have a Pioneer AVR with two HDMI outputs, one for my plasma & the other for my projector. Will use the Darblet for the projector.
My blu-ray player (oppo93) is also connected to the AVR.
Where should i place the Darblet in this chain?

I would place the Darbee between the AVR and the Projector, thats where I have it. smile.gif
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post #2080 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 09:41 AM
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UPDATE:

I was having sync trouble with my Comcast Motorola DCH3200 interacting with the Darblet. I went to Comcast and swapped it out with a MOT DCX3400 and tried it out with my updated Darblet and was disappointed to find it was still not working 100%. It seems that the STB still reports a HDCP authentication failure. The screen reports a warning, then will put up a green screen while still passing through the audio. I tried the Darblet just after the STB, after the AVR and finally at the projector with no change. So back to Comcast to try a Cisco STB, if no joy, then component and SPDIF set up.

FYI
I came across this CEDIA - HDMI seminar that I found helpful. You can check it out below. Many case studies from AVS Forum smile.gif

6-QuantumData-CEDIA_Seminar_[Compatibility_Mode].pdf 2159k .pdf file

Post Edit:

Exchanged the DCX-3400 for a Pace RNG110 and I now have everything working properly. The Darblet is placed after the AVR and before the Projector. biggrin.gif
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 6-QuantumData-CEDIA_Seminar_[Compatibility_Mode].pdf (2.11 MB, 16 views)

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post #2081 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fixuis View Post

Okay guys quick question - I own a krp 500m but don't have access to a isf calibrator as I am in Asia. I have tweaked the tv using Controlcal and using d-nice settings. It looks pretty good and I use isf-day all the time. By using this thing can my tv look atleast as good as those with an isf calibration?

I have a Kuro as well but it doesn't change the image the way you're thinking. It won't change the colors or black levels but it will give your set more pop by giving details a boost. When you play with the on/off switch of the Darbee it gives the effect of having the image more tightly focused with it on and when it's off it looks slightly out of focus. That's really the best way I have heard it described and that's how I would interpret the effect too after acquiring one for myself.
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post #2082 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

Having an intermittent problem with the Darbee... I have one with latest firmware, have Darbee between my Denon 4311 and Epson 6010 projector. In my Denon I have it setup to display onscreen GUI such as display when you change the volume which I find convenient. Sometimes the onscreen display of volume doesn't display since I included the Darbee between the Denon and the projector. When the problem occurs typically if I activate the Denon GUI to get to menu system I get the GUI to come on after some weird flashing then if I close Denon menu system on screen volume display works. This is annoying, never seen a problem like this and started happening when I got the Darbee.
P.S. someone asked about how Darbee works with Popcorn Hour, no problems with mine, works great. I also have a Roku for streaming and DISH Hopper DVR both work fine. I have an Oppo BDP-93 and haven't tried that yet.

Seems that this symptom of flashing happens whenever the screen resolution changes either between sources or within the source's own functions. With my Popcorn Hour if I switch from film to film, if the source happens to have a resolution that differs from the prior output, I get flashing -- when not, then no flashing. Jumping around from within the menu system for selecting the various functions does not cause any flashing. Also, it often takes 15-30 seconds or more for everything to resolve itself. I'm pretty certain if I alter the Popcorn Hour's settings to force a particular screen resolution, and match it to the Lumagen's input setting, this would not happen. With the Darblet in the chain it simply adds additional delays among the 4 "players" in this conversation - namely the source, processor, Darblet, and display device.

I'm guessing that with the Denon the same syncing issue is happening. Within its menu system functions there won't be any flashing. It's probably that when moving into our out of the menu system to playback.

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post #2083 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 10:18 AM
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Here's a pic from Terminator Salvation. Now just be reminded my camera tends to do wonky things to my sets contrast & black levels, they are fairly spot on but this is the best I could get the images.



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post #2084 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 10:27 AM
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Thanks for the pics TK. As a non-Darbee user, it is nice to see the differences. Although from still shots it is hard to tell how it impacts the depth and dimension of it as it looks like an artificially enhanced Photoshop job. (All stills seem to.)

From general consensus, the Darblet is something that really needs to be seen in person...

Some day I will have one.

Thanks again for the pics.
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post #2085 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Thanks for the pics TK. As a non-Darbee user, it is nice to see the differences. Although from still shots it is hard to tell how it impacts the depth and dimension of it as it looks like an artificially enhanced Photoshop job. (All stills seem to.)
From general consensus, the Darblet is something that really needs to be seen in person...
Some day I will have one.
Thanks again for the pics.

Yeah it really is just one of those things you have to see. It's actually pretty natural looking in person.
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post #2086 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post

Ordered a Darblet yesterday and can't hardly wait to test it out.
Have one question regarding where i should place the Darblet in my setup. I have a Pioneer AVR with two HDMI outputs, one for my plasma & the other for my projector. Will use the Darblet for the projector.
My blu-ray player (oppo93) is also connected to the AVR.
Where should i place the Darblet in this chain?

See DarbeeDR's post #84

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post #2087 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post

Howver, reading this site one gets that sense that many early adopters are so defensive about their purchase that they can't wait to pounce on anyone with a contrary opinion. Some of you need to step back, take a breath, and realize that this is an AV forum and not the presidential elections.

Almost all of the drama in this thread has been generated by people who have never seen the Darblet, and in fact proudly boast that they never want to see it on principle, telling those of us who actually own and have used it extensively that the product is a piece of junk and we should not be allowed to like what it does.

Skepticism is natural and healthy. However, when countless knowledgeable and informed members of this forum have used the device and have reported satisfaction with it, perhaps it's time to set that skepticism aside for a few minutes and try to evaluate it with an open mind? Maybe you'll see it and still not like it. At least that would be a fair assessment based on first-hand experience, as opposed to the uninformed nonsense we've suffered in this thread.
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post #2088 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 11:21 AM
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Well said.

If you search this entire thread how many actual owners of Darblets are unhappy with the image it produces? Maybe two? Also why would buy one or even be reading this thread if you are totally against any sort of image manipulation?
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post #2089 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Just curious... Have you guys tried going from DirecTV into Darblet then into mini3D? Just for the heck of it?
I put my Edge Green back in for some pre season football last night (wanted to send PC Levels out) and I could not get them to stop flashing and stuttering going from Edge to Darblet to projector. I switched the order and it worked. The only issue I encountered was the Edge would lock up when doing menu adjustments. For some reason the Darblet would "kidnap" it after a few minutes. Of course if I stay off the Edge's remote all is well. I was just checking some things. I will experiment more today. We had company over and it was getting late...

UPDATE: Another HDMI cable issue. So a few months ago when I was sending up converted 4K from my Sony 790 to my 1000ES projector I had blinking/ blanking issues. The same I witnessed last night. So I had switched my Blu ray (HDMI 2 35 foot) cable to the new Monster Hyperspeed HDX. I get them pretty cheap so it was worth a shot. I just didn't think using Monster's HDMI 1000 cable would matter as much with using DirecTV, Edge VP and a Darblet. Well, I switched inputs and let the new HDX cable try it. It WORKED! No issues. The signal is flawless between the three. Without the Edge in it would work with Both HDMI cables. For some reason adding the Edge I am only successful with the Hyperspeed HDX cable. HDMI is still a mystery to this day... eek.gif

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post #2090 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

No trouble at all.....the flash does NOT happen if the Darbee is not in the path.
I would like to know more about colorspace conversion errors...perhaps an expert will chime in or direct me (us) to a previous discussion thread.
With my limited understanding it seems that multiple conversions into and out of 4:2:2 should be avoided since that means interpolating data (to make it 444 or RGB) and throwing data out (to make it 422). Seems prudent that when 422 is upsampled to 444 or RGB one should not introduce unnecessary downsampling back to 422...??
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

No trouble at all.....the flash does NOT happen if the Darbee is not in the path.

Same here with both Tivo HD and Popcorn Hour C200 as sources to Lumagen XS then to JVC RS35 = No Magenta flash; with Darblet preceding JVC => Magenta flash. Guess this also points to some issue with either the Lumagen or Darblet. Not clear who is at fault, though. It's nice to know Lumagen is working with the folks at DarbeeVision on this as well.

Steve Schaffer
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post #2091 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Almost all of the drama in this thread has been generated by people who have never seen the Darblet, and in fact proudly boast that they never want to see it on principle, telling those of us who actually own and have used it extensively that the product is a piece of junk and we should not be allowed to like what it does.
Skepticism is natural and healthy. However, when countless knowledgeable and informed members of this forum have used the device and have reported satisfaction with it, perhaps it's time to set that skepticism aside for a few minutes and try to evaluate it with an open mind? Maybe you'll see it and still not like it. At least that would be a fair assessment based on first-hand experience, as opposed to the uninformed nonsense we've suffered in this thread.

Yeah, what he said!! biggrin.gif What I don't understand is why do they feel the need to save us? It's an image processor not heroine!
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post #2092 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tkbryant View Post

Yeah, what he said!! biggrin.gif What I don't understand is why do they feel the need to save us? It's an image processor not heroine!
It's heroin for the eyes.......tongue.gif


well some do say it's eye candy.....rolleyes.gif

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post #2093 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

It's heroin for the eyes.......tongue.gif
well some do say it's eye candy.....rolleyes.gif

LOL!!! Too true and I do find it addictive....hmmmm wink.gif
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post #2094 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tkbryant View Post

Yeah, what he said!! biggrin.gif What I don't understand is why do they feel the need to save us? It's an image processor not heroine!


biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #2095 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 12:54 PM
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Sorry, for the OT post, but its Friday!

I was wondering what you all thought of using this non-adhesive window tint film to manually turn down the brightness of the LED's on my Monoprice HDMI switches? They do not have an internal adjustment option, and they are pretty bright. I have put electrical tape over them in the past, but was looking for a more elegant solution.

http://www.amazon.com/Gila-JS246-Static-Control-Automotive/dp/B00062YZXU

Thanks for any input.

Mark
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post #2096 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

As a non-Darbee user, it is nice to see the differences. Although from still shots it is hard to tell how it impacts the depth and dimension of it as it looks like an artificially enhanced Photoshop job.

Agreed. HD Darbee in motion on the human eye is far superior to a photograph of a projected still image reproduced on someone's monitor.
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post #2097 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Sorry, for the OT post, but its Friday!
I was wondering what you all thought of using this non-adhesive window tint film to manually turn down the brightness of the LED's on my Monoprice HDMI switches? They do not have an internal adjustment option, and they are pretty bright. I have put electrical tape over them in the past, but was looking for a more elegant solution.
http://www.amazon.com/Gila-JS246-Static-Control-Automotive/dp/B00062YZXU
Thanks for any input.
Mark

I have some home window tint I used on my LEDs on my seats, if you wanted I could cut and mail you out a piece. You shouldn't need much and you can layer it to decrease the brightness.
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post #2098 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

I have some home window tint I used on my LEDs on my seats, if you wanted I could cut and mail you out a piece. You shouldn't need much and you can layer it to decrease the brightness.

Awesome! Thank You! PM Sent.

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post #2099 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Sorry, for the OT post, but its Friday!
I was wondering what you all thought of using this non-adhesive window tint film to manually turn down the brightness of the LED's on my Monoprice HDMI switches? They do not have an internal adjustment option, and they are pretty bright. I have put electrical tape over them in the past, but was looking for a more elegant solution.
http://www.amazon.com/Gila-JS246-Static-Control-Automotive/dp/B00062YZXU
Thanks for any input.
Mark

I don't know about elegant, but I've used Blu-Tack over LED's. Works like a charm, but do test it on a non-visible area first to be sure there's nothing left behind after removing. I've used it over LED's with no after affects, but YMMV.

See ya. Dave

"High Fidelity audio has been like a dog chasing his tail. High Fidelity in my marriage has been much more rewarding cause she knows where I sleep."
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post #2100 of 8055 Old 08-10-2012, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tkbryant View Post

Here's a pic from Terminator Salvation. Now just be reminded my camera tends to do wonky things to my sets contrast & black levels, they are fairly spot on but this is the best I could get the images.

I mentioned earlier that Terminator Salvation was a good test for the Darbee, and your shots show it.

Another good one is to get the full screen head shot of Christian Bale in "Batman Begins" early in the film when he's grubby. When you switch to the Darbee on HiDef at 50%, hairs on his facial scrub show up that you can't see without it!

See ya. Dave

"High Fidelity audio has been like a dog chasing his tail. High Fidelity in my marriage has been much more rewarding cause she knows where I sleep."
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