Darbee vision darblet - Page 85 - AVS Forum
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post #2521 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post


I have a 3-foot HDMI cable going from my AVR to the input of the Radiance. I will check in the Lumagen forums.
Thanks.
Mark


I also have a 3 ft monoprice cable from my Onk3008 AVR to a RadianceMini, and have never had any issue with it.

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post #2522 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 06:49 PM
 
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It may work fine, it may not. Me. No point in trying to introduce a problem and then try and solve it. The smallest HDMI I use is 6 ft.
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post #2523 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 06:56 PM
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post #2524 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 06:58 PM
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I have some half meter and even 1 foot HDMI cables and never had a problem. Not using a Radiance tho.
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post #2525 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 07:03 PM
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Darbee arrived today!!!!! Hooked it up and OMG!!!! My girlfriend is blown away by it!!!!! Just hsf s fellow AV enthusiast check it out...he left to go home and order one haha

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

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post #2526 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 07:12 PM
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Just installed Darblet last night between Marantz AV7005 and JVC X3. I honestly thought my UMR calibrated projector was fine and reasonably sharp. (I will admit that I had previously bumped up sharpness and detail 3 notches from 0 where UMR set it because, like cowbells, I have a fever and the only cure is more sharpness).

But when I watched through the Darblet at HD 55% it was so much sharper that I have to admit I had (have) the following paranoid perception. That is, when the Darblet is in line - at the 0% setting - it is somehow making the picture softer. And that's why the dramatic improvement in perceived sharpness when Darblet is engaged. I know this probably cannot be true but anyone else have that perception?

I have now set my JVC X3 to where UMR set it (at 0 sharpness + 0 detail) as the Darblet gives me all the sharpness I need. I find HD 55% cures my fever.

Too lazy to A>B this by taking the Darblet out of the loop again because of the way I finessed the installation of that funky little plastic box.
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post #2527 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by console View Post

Just installed Darblet last night between Marantz AV7005 and JVC X3. I honestly thought my UMR calibrated projector was fine and reasonably sharp. (I will admit that I had previously bumped up sharpness and detail 3 notches from 0 where UMR set it because, like cowbells, I have a fever and the only cure is more sharpness).
But when I watched through the Darblet at HD 55% it was so much sharper that I have to admit I had (have) the following paranoid perception. That is, when the Darblet is in line - at the 0% setting - it is somehow making the picture softer. And that's why the dramatic improvement in perceived sharpness when Darblet is engaged. I know this probably cannot be true but anyone else have that perception?
I have now set my JVC X3 to where UMR set it (at 0 sharpness + 0 detail) as the Darblet gives me all the sharpness I need. I find HD 55% cures my fever.
Too lazy to A>B this by taking the Darblet out of the loop again because of the way I finessed the installation of that funky little plastic box.

Don't worry, I have performed the experiment on multiple devices, in and out of the system, first for myself and then for others to show that the Darbee in line but turned off or at zero does not soften the image.

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post #2528 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

I've got yet another question about the little Darblet.
What if you are using it on a system which suffers a little from not having the greatest picture, does the Darblet help create more "pop" while increasing the detail level, or just inscreases the details?
The situation is that a coworker of mine is wondering about this little Darblet that I keep talking about (in my attempt to get him to buy one so I can try it out). He has an older Sanyo 1080p projector (Z4 or Z5, something like that). It doesn't have as deep of blacks or as much detail in the darker areas of movies like my JVC RS45 does, so he is wondering if he will get a perceived boost in dynamic range or as he calls is "pop" in the image as well as the enhanced detail.
Thoughts?
Experiences?
Thanks!

I had the z4000 last year and upgraded to JVC and Sony; never looked back. The Darbee helped my RS2 clone, in both DVD and BR (had not tried my cable HD yet), in terms of details and contrast but it's not a miracle worker. BTW, z4 or z5 is 720p, if that is the model that your friend has. If that is the case, investing in a 1080p pj would be wiser since a used z4 is about the same as the Darbee, price wise.

Bottom line, it would help the Z4000. I've only tried the HD mode for 2 days, so I've no idea how the Pop option would look like.
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post #2529 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Paul Darbee Visits us in New Zealand. Learn whats new and and exciting for the future of DarbeeVision.

Paul Darbee down Under in NZ http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/blog/Paul-Darbee-Down-Under-in-NZ

thanks for sharing. That's cool that Paul Darbee finally got to see e-shift + the darbee on a large screen. Did he have any specific comments on the e-shift?

The autographed Darbee box should be worth a good $500 on ebay. smile.gif
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post #2530 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I have a Duo and use a DirecTV DVR set to native but have not noticed a magenta flash on my JVC. I see it sometimes on my Acer H5360 but only when the darblet is connected directly to the Acer. If I connect it to my 3D converter no flash...so in other words when the Darblet input is connected to my Duo there are no flashes.

The video chip technology is different between the Duo and Lumagen. As I recall the Lumagen uses a Gennum and the Duo an ABT2010. That and the algorithms are going to be different, resulting in differing results. Appears that as you mix devices in and out of the path you're getting different results. I don't recall anyone else running into magenta flash problems with the Duo as their processor.

Steve Schaffer
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post #2531 of 8400 Old 08-21-2012, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for sharing. That's cool that Paul Darbee finally got to see e-shift + the darbee on a large screen. Did he have any specific comments on the e-shift?
The autographed Darbee box should be worth a good $500 on ebay. smile.gif

Paul was blown away with his Darblet and e-shift combined, he had been dieing to see them together. I mean how much really could it ever get better with the top model JVC, e-shift and Darbee, they all go very much hand in hand. JVC should incorporate Darbee into future projectors with e-shift.

You know Rich your setup is pretty much the same as mine, 140" scope, A lens, X70, and Darbee. Both Paul and Larry were raving that the image and 9.4 audio was the best they had ever seen and heard. Its great to get those compliments from guys "in the know"!

They are both really knowledgeable, friendly and dedicated to this project and I back them 100%. My three favorite things are my "A" lens, my JVC RS65 and my Darbee;)
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post #2532 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 12:43 AM
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Murray, I think you have me confused with Rich H, my name is Jason. My screen is a 142" 16:9 Dalite High Power (the older 2.8 material) but I don't use an A lens, just masks once in a while.

I figured they'd be impressed with both technologies working together. The Darbee looks good on the other projectors I've tested, but there is something unique in combination w/ the e-shift.
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post #2533 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Murray, I think you have me confused with Rich H, my name is Jason. My screen is a 142" 16:9 Dalite High Power (the older 2.8 material) but I don't use an A lens, just masks once in a while.
I figured they'd be impressed with both technologies working together. The Darbee looks good on the other projectors I've tested, but there is something unique in combination w/ the e-shift.

Sorry Jason there must be another zombie round here who answers to Rich. rolleyes.gif

Yes the two technologies do work extremely well together, a marriage made in heaven!
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post #2534 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Murray, I think you have me confused with Rich H, my name is Jason. My screen is a 142" 16:9 Dalite High Power (the older 2.8 material) but I don't use an A lens, just masks once in a while.
I figured they'd be impressed with both technologies working together. The Darbee looks good on the other projectors I've tested, but there is something unique in combination w/ the e-shift.

Have you tested with the Epson 6010?

From what I've seen so far the Darbee doesn't really do anything that the super resolution function and sharpness features do on the Epson, I kind of wonder if this device is really only suited for certain projectors like the Jvc.
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post #2535 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post

Have you tested with the Epson 6010?
From what I've seen so far the Darbee doesn't really do anything that the super resolution function and sharpness features do on the Epson, I kind of wonder if this device is really only suited for certain projectors like the Jvc.

No not at all, its suited for all displays even 720p. Any sharpness that you currently use on any display does add artifacts and those in the know never use them. The Darbee does not add edge ringing and all the other artifacts that a sharpness control does.
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post #2536 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

No not at all, its suited for all displays even 720p. Any sharpness that you currently use on any display does add artifacts and those in the know never use them. The Darbee does not add edge ringing and all the other artifacts that a sharpness control does.

That's not what I'm seeing. I see the same kind of image artifacts with the Darbee that I see when using the projectors sharpness and detail enhancement features. The image looks sharper but less clean with more image noise. The Darbee does it in a different way but the overall effect is more or less the same.
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post #2537 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 04:22 AM
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That's not what I'm seeing. I see the same kind of image artifacts with the Darbee that I see when using the projectors sharpness and detail enhancement features. The image looks sharper but less clean with more image noise. The Darbee does it in a different way but the overall effect is more or less the same.
And what setting are you using then on the Darbee to get so many artifacts, its certainly not what everyone else on this forum is seeing?
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post #2538 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 04:43 AM
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Im using an oppo83 directly connected to my samsung 55 8500 that is calibrated by D-Nice.Would this be worth it for sd dvd viewing pq improvement?

Matt
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post #2539 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post

That's not what I'm seeing. I see the same kind of image artifacts with the Darbee that I see when using the projectors sharpness and detail enhancement features. The image looks sharper but less clean with more image noise. The Darbee does it in a different way but the overall effect is more or less the same.

That isn't noise you see. Having spent quite a few hours close up it is apparent that there is no added content such as found with standard "sharpening" controls. In small areas of the screen, contrast is enhanced by lightening the brighter areas and darkening the darker areas. It's unique. As far as I can determine, the contrast is increased in limited areas of the picture, that area being relative to the overall panel size. I would guess it is related to pixel count (pure speculation). In other words, if there was a line drawn through the center of the screen with one half being 30% white and the other being 80%, nothing would happen. Place that same pattern on the screen as a one inch square, the contrast is increased by either/or/and darkening the darker section and lightening the lighter section.

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post #2540 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 06:30 AM
 
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There are many different types of artifacting that can arrive from the capture to display of an image. And it is specious to lump them together.

The Darblet does increase the noticeability of certain artifacts and has no affect on others. Setting sharpening controls to high causes ringing. The Darblet is not a sharpener. It is a contrast transition enhancer. It doesn't cause ringing.

MTF is a measurement of contrast resolution, and to ones eyes the higher a system's ability to resolve contrast, the sharper it will appear presuming a source frame or frames with contrast transitions.


Back to artifacts. Everyone has different thresholds to the visability, while watching content, of different artifacts. Here ignorance is often bliss and seating distance, room conditions, screen quality all enter into the equation. And yea, I know whatever screen you have is perfect and you love it. Couldn't be any better unless it had more gain. smile.gif

Its easy to say any artifacting is bad. It artifacts, it artifacts. The sky is falling. Everything artifacts. What differs is your sensitivity as to their visability to them and whether they bother you. And its really easy to become a hollier than thou and scream every artifact is noticeable to you and drives you crazy. Please PM me. I have a job for you for a scene in a movie about a princess feeling a pea a pea through a stack or 156 mattresses. No disrespect, in the author's mind the princess could feel the pea.

Video processes are employed to solve certain proplems with capture through display. Some are offered to the end user and can be adjusted to change the picture to one's tastes.

Its all a question of tastes and its easy both ways to not really trust ones own taste or to discern taste differences, but to rely on the taste opinions of so called experts.. And its not a popularity issue. Over and over, I read tell me what settings the masses are using because that's what I will use and between the lines cause I don't have a clue myself, I can't discern differences that well, anbd I want to be right, The studeo audience please vote and I'll use that answer.

One thing about a forum that is nice, is that one can voice their opinion within certain guidelines of conduct and decorum.

It is certainly acceptable to not like what the Darblet does, to conclude that negatives outweigh positives, that the bang for the buck is not there. Various viewers have opinions that differ as to the net perceived gain or loss in PQ and the cost of the Darblet.

Fortunately for Darbeevision, the vast majority of purchasers (me included) really like what it does when set to a level that results in the largest net positive gain to the particular viewer and that the bang is worth the buck. But I respect those who don't agree and that's why AV Science offers a money back less shipping trial period.
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post #2541 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

And what setting are you using then on the Darbee to get so many artifacts, its certainly not what everyone else on this forum is seeing?

Every available setting of course but most testing was done between 40-50% on HD. HD 25% is the only setting that I feel increases sharpness without negatively effecting the image too much but it's a minor improvement, probably not enough to make it worth while and I still feel at times the Darbee makes the image look a bit unnatural even at this low setting.

I've done some further comparisons between the Darbee and the super resolution feature on the Epson and I would say the Epson's S.R function does a better job overall. It gets the image as sharp as the Darbee but looks more natural to me, there is just something off about the way the Darbee does it, whether it's artifacts or something else I'm not sure but it doesn't look that good to me on the Epson 6010.
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post #2542 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by boblinds View Post

GTV:
To adjust the Darblet in 1% increments, go into the Advanced Settings menu and choose the fine tuning option. (You probably ARE running the latest firmware.)
The green/magenta may be an issue with your projector identifying the correct color space. Go into your projector's setup menu and try to find the setting for RGB/YCbCr. If it is set to Auto, change it to choose a specific color space and see what happens. One of the choice may eliminate the green/magenta problem for you.
IMO you should definitely place the Darblet in the chain between the Denon and the projector. (I have no experience with extenders, so before or after that is something I can't help with.)

I was able to adjust in 1%, so I must have the latest firmware. Thanks! I did not find any settings in the projector for RGB/YCbCr that is setup up for Auto. Not sure what to try next, I still have two problems, on startup I get a green tinted screen, and when I switch from 3D to normal, the image looks to be twice as big. Both problems are fixed by powering down the darblet. Any more ideas from the video gurus? Thanks!
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post #2543 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 06:57 AM
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my Darbee #2 is arriving today....this time via UPS from SS ordered through Amazon....this one will be dedicated to my gaming PC.Last night watched some of the Return of the KING EE version,The Incredibles, and the entire disc of Lockout that I had rented,all looked terrific in HD 55%. After I do some testing with my projector,I think I am just going to pack up the box and remote and put it away and forget the darbee is in my system. This way I can just sit back and enjoy my new improved HT.
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post #2544 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

That isn't noise you see. Having spent quite a few hours close up it is apparent that there is no added content such as found with standard "sharpening" controls. In small areas of the screen, contrast is enhanced by lightening the brighter areas and darkening the darker areas. It's unique. As far as I can determine, the contrast is increased in limited areas of the picture, that area being relative to the overall panel size. I would guess it is related to pixel count (pure speculation). In other words, if there was a line drawn through the center of the screen with one half being 30% white and the other being 80%, nothing would happen. Place that same pattern on the screen as a one inch square, the contrast is increased by either/or/and darkening the darker section and lightening the lighter section.

If there are artifacts, image noise, grain or whatever in the image the Darbee will make it more visible even if it doesn't actually add any of it's own which is what I think I'm seeing, most movies have a certain amount of it. The contrast enhancement effect of the Darbee, if that's what the device is doing, makes the image look a bit unnatural to me, like the projector isn't calibrated properly.
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post #2545 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

You have to look down, pants wetting is more frequent than jaw dropping.


Yeah but if they're all in NZ my question is . . . who's fixing my Darblet!? eek.gif

Now I think I just wet my pants! tongue.gif

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post #2546 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post

If there are artifacts, image noise, grain or whatever in the image the Darbee will make it more visible even if it doesn't actually add any of it's own which is what I think I'm seeing. The contrast enhancement effect of the Darbee if that's what it's doing just looks a bit unnatural to me, it makes my Epson 6010 in it's thx picture mode look more like it's in a sports mode or something to that effect.

Exactly. The higher the quality of content the better the resulting picture. Certain DVDs don't look good at all and 480 cable TV can be worse than awful. The Darblet, on my system, is a keeper using BD and some of the better quality cable HDTV programming.

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post #2547 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonbud0 View Post

I had the z4000 last year and upgraded to JVC and Sony; never looked back. The Darbee helped my RS2 clone, in both DVD and BR (had not tried my cable HD yet), in terms of details and contrast but it's not a miracle worker. BTW, z4 or z5 is 720p, if that is the model that your friend has. If that is the case, investing in a 1080p pj would be wiser since a used z4 is about the same as the Darbee, price wise.
Bottom line, it would help the Z4000. I've only tried the HD mode for 2 days, so I've no idea how the Pop option would look like.

Wow, will he be in for a surprise when I tell him he has 720p. I never even looked up the specs.

He is pretty happy with what he has and while his Sanyo may not be worth much, the cost to do an upgrade is ($270 Darbee for some improvement vs $2000 - $3000 for a new projector, even if it will be a monster improvement)....
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post #2548 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I have a Duo and use a DirecTV DVR set to native but have not noticed a magenta flash on my JVC. I see it sometimes on my Acer H5360 but only when the darblet is connected directly to the Acer. If I connect it to my 3D converter no flash...so in other words when the Darblet input is connected to my Duo there are no flashes.

The video chip technology is different between the Duo and Lumagen. As I recall the Lumagen uses a Gennum and the Duo an ABT2010. That and the algorithms are going to be different, resulting in differing results. Appears that as you mix devices in and out of the path you're getting different results. I don't recall anyone else running into magenta flash problems with the Duo as their processor.
The Lumagen Radiance series VPs use Sigma Designs VXP (GF9450) Video Processor..
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post #2549 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post

Every available setting of course but most testing was done between 40-50% on HD. HD 25% is the only setting that I feel increases sharpness without negatively effecting the image too much but it's a minor improvement, probably not enough to make it worth while and I still feel at times the Darbee makes the image look a bit unnatural even at this low setting.
I've done some further comparisons between the Darbee and the super resolution feature on the Epson and I would say the Epson's S.R function does a better job overall. It gets the image as sharp as the Darbee but looks more natural to me, there is just something off about the way the Darbee does it, whether it's artifacts or something else I'm not sure but it doesn't look that good to me on the Epson 6010.
Display the projectors main menu and play with SR.
Once you get passed 3, you will start to see ringing around the text.

I run the Darbee at HD 51% and SR at 2.

The Darbee has given the PQ enough improvement that it may curb my upgrade fever this year.

2014
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post #2550 of 8400 Old 08-22-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post

If there are artifacts, image noise, grain or whatever in the image the Darbee will make it more visible even if it doesn't actually add any of it's own which is what I think I'm seeing, most movies have a certain amount of it. The contrast enhancement effect of the Darbee, if that's what the device is doing, makes the image look a bit unnatural to me, like the projector isn't calibrated properly.


You are correct. It doesn't add noise but if there is noise in the picture it will make some of it more visable. That relates to my previous post and seating distances etc come into play as well as a viewer's sensitivity. That's why some can't go above Darbee at 25, others like uo to say 55 and still others like Joerod smile.gif wish the Darbee went up to higher than 120.
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