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post #241 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

1. Our mantra is..."Make the best picture fidelity that you can, then process with DVP." Great in...sublime out.

2. Calibrate with instruments to achieve the desired fidelity factors for your display hardware. Then add DVP and calibrate with your eyes. At that point your color calibration (by instruments) should confirm that we don't change the hue, your eyes/brain will confirm if you like the luminance of each pixel.
-DD

Thanks for your quick reply. Can't wait to try the Darblet. Hope it arrives this week.
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post #242 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 07:20 AM
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Well I got to say I just got my used RS1, prismasonic a lens and a radiance mini 3d and also a darblet. I just fired it up and inserted the darblet in the chain with the radiance outputting 4:4:4 and the darbee at defaults look amazing. It makes ratatouille so much clearer It is more like a focus enhancement. I thought the rs1 looked good before but with the darbee it is at least 20+% sharper. Makes it look like dlp sharpness in my eyes without the drawbacks (color wheel)
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post #243 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Does the Darblet connect directly to your projector or in between source and receiver?

I would hook it up between the receiver and your projector so that all video sources inputting into your receiver will get the benefit of the Darbee when they output out of the receiver and through the Darbee to your projector-Pete
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post #244 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

1. Our mantra is..."Make the best picture fidelity that you can, then process with DVP." Great in...sublime out.

2. Calibrate with instruments to achieve the desired fidelity factors for your display hardware. Then add DVP and calibrate with your eyes. At that point your color calibration (by instruments) should confirm that we don't change the hue, your eyes/brain will confirm if you like the luminance of each pixel.
-DD

I just got my darblet this weekend.I have a panasonic dmpbt500 ( just picked that up too )and a dvdo edge to a jvc rs35. How does the darblet compare to the detail enhancement adjustments on the processor ,bd player,and should I set these levels to minimum and just use the darblet adjustments ?
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post #245 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckg1 View Post

I just got my darblet this weekend.I have a panasonic dmpbt500 ( just picked that up too )and a dvdo edge to a jvc rs35. How does the darblet compare to the detail enhancement adjustments on the processor ,bd player,and should I set these levels to minimum and just use the darblet adjustments ?

I am not answering for DD, but from my experience with my vw95, no VP, I had it calibrated professionally which compared to my limited efforts with only a calibration disc was day and night improvement and absolutely gorgeous. I added the Darblet about 2 weeks later just to see if it would improve anything more being quite skeptical that any 'improvement' would be overshadowed by artifact, in fact it was quite the opposite, with mild to mid level processing it was all improvement without any visible artifact on hdtv via Tivo with Fios and OPPO 83. From that I would conclude calibrate display with VP, leave bd player settings to min and add Darblet. Once you've found the most enjoyable improvement by the Darblet, then perhaps adjusting the bd settings as the particular disc may benefit.
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post #246 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

a video game related question: what's the processing delay of the Darblet ? And is the processing delay reduced to ZERO with all processing disabled, but the Darblet still in line ?

Our lead system engineer has informed me that the delay across our system when passing 1080p/60 is 0.2 milliseconds, whether the unit is in bypass or not.
-DD
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post #247 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

I am not answering for DD, but from my experience with my vw95, no VP, I had it calibrated professionally which compared to my limited efforts with only a calibration disc was day and night improvement and absolutely gorgeous. I added the Darblet about 2 weeks later just to see if it would improve anything more being quite skeptical that any 'improvement' would be overshadowed by artifact, in fact it was quite the opposite, with mild to mid level processing it was all improvement without any visible artifact on hdtv via Tivo with Fios and OPPO 83. From that I would conclude calibrate display with VP, leave bd player settings to min and add Darblet. Once you've found the most enjoyable improvement by the Darblet, then perhaps adjusting the bd settings as the particular disc may benefit.

jlanzy - Thank you for this good response, I cannot think of anything to add to your answer.
-DD
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post #248 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 03:18 PM
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delay across our system when passing 1080p/60 is 0.2 milliseconds

thanks, Larry. Good to know!

I would have assumed that the Darblet buffers a full frame to apply it's processing. With a delay lower than 1/60th of a second, this would mean that the Darblet applies processing in lines or rows of pixels instead of a frame at a time (?).
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post #249 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

I am not answering for DD, but from my experience with my vw95, no VP, I had it calibrated professionally which compared to my limited efforts with only a calibration disc was day and night improvement and absolutely gorgeous. I added the Darblet about 2 weeks later just to see if it would improve anything more being quite skeptical that any 'improvement' would be overshadowed by artifact, in fact it was quite the opposite, with mild to mid level processing it was all improvement without any visible artifact on hdtv via Tivo with Fios and OPPO 83. From that I would conclude calibrate display with VP, leave bd player settings to min and add Darblet. Once you've found the most enjoyable improvement by the Darblet, then perhaps adjusting the bd settings as the particular disc may benefit.

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Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

thanks, Larry. Good to know!

I would have assumed that the Darblet buffers a full frame to apply it's processing. With a delay lower than 1/60th of a second, this would mean that the Darblet applies processing in lines or rows of pixels instead of a frame at a time (?).

Since you have more knowledge of image processing than most, I won't go any further in detail, but will simply say that we regard DVP as a computational image enhancement miracle. You probably understand what I mean, because I think you know what I mean by the statement "it is much harder to understand an image without a prior." In the end, DVP works, despite being computationally practical. A wonderful image Pop, produced by a freakishly small amount of resources.
-DD
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post #250 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 09:19 PM
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And on top of all that never seems to compute or guess wrong. The more pristine the signal the more aggressive you can be with it. Technologies such as 2D > 3D conversion may have a different nut to crack and be more prone to "guessing wrong" with what they do to the image.

But if you take Avatar 2D, whatever the best pressing of that is.....and play around aggressively with the great image enhancement capabilities of a top level name processor, or from a top of the line Oppo....with a sharp, calibrated, high quality projector and large screen.....with the Darblet on zero in Full Pop.....to where the image looks the most dimensional and detailed as you can get it......and then run it at 120 Full Pop, it is just astonishing. The depth and roundness that DVP pulls from that highly tweaked image is like nothing you have ever seen in 2D.

Avatar is amazing to experiment with. I was running a Denon DVP 602ci at freaking 10 with the enhancement and 1 on sharpness when I did this experiment. Holy bleep with the depth and roundness of objects. 2.5D almost everywhere. Have some fun with this folks.....
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post #251 of 8188 Old 05-21-2012, 11:44 PM
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Try "Ben Hur"...
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post #252 of 8188 Old 05-22-2012, 05:44 AM
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Can anyone with the darblet comment on its effectiveness with low resolution material - any notable improvements?
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post #253 of 8188 Old 05-22-2012, 08:16 AM
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I think the expectation should be that you just have to see how the interplay with any source is going to be. IMO there is no "1" setting that will be optimized for your system to cover all source material. It's a real quick process.....choose the mode you prefer to use and then the up/down effect buttons on remote until you find your preference for that source you are watching.

As above I mentioned the really over-the-top settings for my Denon processor I experimented with on Avatar....were for my curiosity as to their effect if they were prior to the Darblet's own processing of the signal. Avatar just happens to be a movie that lends itself very well to that. The question below that post to try it with Ben Hur.....I have little confidence that would work out well with such settings and they would most likely be much more conservative for both units.
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post #254 of 8188 Old 05-22-2012, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

And on top of all that never seems to compute or guess wrong. The more pristine the signal the more aggressive you can be with it. Technologies such as 2D > 3D conversion may have a different nut to crack and be more prone to "guessing wrong" with what they do to the image.

But if you take Avatar 2D, whatever the best pressing of that is.....and play around aggressively with the great image enhancement capabilities of a top level name processor, or from a top of the line Oppo....with a sharp, calibrated, high quality projector and large screen.....with the Darblet on zero in Full Pop.....to where the image looks the most dimensional and detailed as you can get it......and then run it at 120 Full Pop, it is just astonishing. The depth and roundness that DVP pulls from that highly tweaked image is like nothing you have ever seen in 2D.

Avatar is amazing to experiment with. I was running a Denon DVP 602ci at freaking 10 with the enhancement and 1 on sharpness when I did this experiment. Holy bleep with the depth and roundness of objects. 2.5D almost everywhere. Have some fun with this folks.....

Nicely restated; but you may not want to jump into Darbee 120 POP without starting with HD 50. Looks great there and all the way up.
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post #255 of 8188 Old 05-22-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmassie View Post

Can anyone with the darblet comment on its effectiveness with low resolution material - any notable improvements?

Yes and no. Dependent on how low res you mean, specific areas that are light will turn darker; improving the contrast to enhance the picture, but Darblett cannot improve on a major missing amount of picture detail.

I have looked for Darblet improvements in color or B&W ROKU movies and as expected, the better pics (those in "HD" 720) are improved signficantly and any the others are marginally improved dependent on content.
Almost every time I would leave the Darblet on and in higher levels than for better resolution sources. I always expect (and get) some improvement from any source. gil
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post #256 of 8188 Old 05-22-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gil Arroyo View Post

Yes and no. Dependent on how low res you mean, specific areas that are light will turn darker; improving the contrast to enhance the picture, but Darblett cannot improve on a major missing amount of picture detail.

I have looked for Darblet improvements in color or B&W ROKU movies and as expected, the better pics (those in "HD" 720) are improved signficantly and any the others are marginally improved dependent on content.
Almost every time I would leave the Darblet on and in higher levels than for better resolution sources. I always expect (and get) some improvement from any source. gil

Thanks -by low res I meant average dvds and SD cable channels
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post #257 of 8188 Old 05-22-2012, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Gil Arroyo View Post

Nicely restated; but you may not want to jump into Darbee 120 POP without starting with HD 50. Looks great there and all the way up.
gil

Right. But when it comes to what this product was really about, as they say, "beyond fidelity" and the literal dimension of depth perception added to 2 dimensional images, an owner of one of these devices, whether absolute purest or a fun seeking A/V person....needs to put themselves into experimental mode occasionally at the outset of ownership. They will cross over to the "deep" side more often after those experiments in my opinion.

Especially with major S.O.T.A. made for 3D productions from square one such as Avatar or The Hobbit with 48fps. When you really access what DVP is capable of it's jaw dropping. The bigger, sharper, better quality, projected images especially ........

And....I also agree with what you are saying Gil. I just hope customers don't miss the point with the unit....it does more than merely sharpen and add detail to previously optimized imaging systems.
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post #258 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RonF View Post


Right. But when it comes to what this product was really about, as they say, "beyond fidelity" and the literal dimension of depth perception added to 2 dimensional images, an owner of one of these devices, whether absolute purest or a fun seeking A/V person....needs to put themselves into experimental mode occasionally at the outset of ownership. They will cross over to the "deep" side more often after those experiments in my opinion.

Especially with major S.O.T.A. made for 3D productions from square one such as Avatar or The Hobbit with 48fps. When you really access what DVP is capable of it's jaw dropping. The bigger, sharper, better quality, projected images especially ........

And....I also agree with what you are saying Gil. I just hope customers don't miss the point with the unit....it does more than merely sharpen and add detail to previously optimized imaging systems.

Yes you're right. At the beginning one is more likely to try all the extremes to see what happens.

I've decided I like the HD and Pop modes, but only settled at 50%.

I find that when you go too high, bright objects on a dark background end up having a light halo around them, that drowns them out.

For example, the flying stars at the start of movies like Ghost Protocol.

So I use dark scenes as my guide for tuning by eye. Freezing an image like that which is dark with a few small bright objects, will help you identify when you have "crossed the line".

I will say that it has worked fantastically with my dual projector 3D system, I put a Darblet in front of each projector. The 3D picture is now even more engrossing. Starts to feel like you are in the same room in some scenes.
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post #259 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 09:27 AM
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Has anyone tried this with a 3D capable system? I have a samsung plasma with 2D - 3D converson that I only used a few times because it was not that impressive. However, with the Darblet in place it looks much better and I find myself using it a lot more. I have not tried on a true 3D blu-ray but I bet that looks very good.
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post #260 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 10:48 AM
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DarbeeDr, have you considered an HDSDI version for the professional market?

I think there is a market for this in broadcast industry. PM me if you want some ideas.

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post #261 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 01:54 PM
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This is very interesting. I too am slowly coming out of the "snake oil" camp. It has been taking me a little while with so many comments of "I'm not a videophile" or "I really don't mess with stuff like this" or other comments that lead me to believe that people aren't starting with a calibrated (by eye or instruments) display or don't care to even try to improve the base picture. Add to that comments like "I spend more than that on a single cable" which too me says that some people have too much money to throw around, or at least more than I do, and if you have the extra money laying around for a $250 cable (really?), then you have extra money to put into incremental additions.

Then there are people like me. I don't have cash sitting around, but I am a tweaker/DIYer/tinkerer. I want to make sure that my projector is calibrated to be as accurate as possible without any "magic boxes" or smoke and mirrors.

So I've been very skeptical about this product. It seems almost too good to be true.

While I don't have the cash for it right now (or even the meter for calibration - thank you over-budget basement finish. Gotta love upgrades.), I think that this little "magic box" with all of its smoke and mirrors seems like it just might be the real deal.

I will definitely be following this product. I would love to read a few more reviews from people who have fully calibrated front projection displays; Particularly LCOS as I've got a JVC RS45, so thus my own greedy desires there.
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post #262 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 02:27 PM
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It's not that long of a thread yet, nickbuol, and those observations are definitely in it already coming from people with displays with excellent quality recent calibrations by one of the best.... Jeff Meier or "umr" on this site. Even comments from the calibrator himself in his own review on his site. My RS50, a Sony 95, even the new 4K VW1000ES. Another person in the $20,000+ forum with a Lumis. Snake oil....smoke & mirrors....hardly.
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post #263 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 06:00 PM
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"In the end, DVP works, despite being computationally practical. A wonderful image Pop, produced by a freakishly small amount of resources."

Any thought about talking with someone like Lumagen to see if they have enough gates left in their FPGA to license this for their video processors? They could treat it as a serial number locked paid upgrade as they did for their 3D upgrades.

Shawn
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post #264 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"In the end, DVP works, despite being computationally practical. A wonderful image Pop, produced by a freakishly small amount of resources."

Any thought about talking with someone like Lumagen to see if they have enough gates left in their FPGA to license this for their video processors? They could treat it as a serial number locked paid upgrade as they did for their 3D upgrades.

Shawn

Sorry, we can't say who we are talking to. We do appreciate all the great feedback that does much of the talking for us, particularly when compared to specific equipment.
-DD
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post #265 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"In the end, DVP works, despite being computationally practical. A wonderful image Pop, produced by a freakishly small amount of resources."

Any thought about talking with someone like Lumagen to see if they have enough gates left in their FPGA to license this for their video processors? They could treat it as a serial number locked paid upgrade as they did for their 3D upgrades.

Shawn

This is indeed a good idea.. no extra equipment, and I got to have this on both my output
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post #266 of 8188 Old 05-23-2012, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Snake oil....smoke & mirrors....hardly.

You missed all of my sarcasm... I talk about snake oil (quoting someone else's term), and then paraphrased actually comments from people about not tweaking (calibrating) or really having much more than the "just give me a plug and play miracle" attitude. Throw in a dash of low (relative to other products), and the claim that it pretty much is awesome, and you can see why someone would start as a non-believer. That was me, but I also mention that the more I read, the more I am intrigued but this product. Keeping in mind that people have had them for what, about an average of a week. Some a towards 2 weeks, many less than that.

I've seen a number of products come out over the years, as we all have, that promise to deliver something so amazing, that people can't resist buying, just to have great perceived results initially, and then over time to stop using it. Heck, you hear of people doing that with audio processing with things like Audyssey. While some people absolutely love it, there are others that have reported that at first they liked it, but over time found that they actually preferred to not have the "correction" or "enhancement" turned on. That is my fear. That this does something that makes the picture a little too artificial. Sure, it can be dialed down, but then is the difference worth it? Some (most/all) say yes.

The point of my post was to reflect some level of outsider skepticism that I've picked up on a little here, but read more about elsewhere. I'm not the only one, and I am NOT saying that the product is bogus, but hopefully you can see the skepticism of a plug and plug box of awesomeness for $250.
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post #267 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 09:51 AM
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The buzz in this thread has me very interested in this product. However, some of the enthusiasm for it reminds me of the reaction to the 3D-Bee conversion box, which was greatly hyped in the 3D Source Components forum on this site. I didn't wind up caring too much for the 3D-Bee, and I'm concerned that this might fall into the same category.

If I could arrange a review sample, I'd be glad to take a look at it with an open mind, but I don't know that I'm ready to buy one, even at its reasonable price. Decisions... decisions...

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post #268 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

Sorry, we can't say who we are talking to. We do appreciate all the great feedback that does much of the talking for us, particularly when compared to specific equipment.
-DD

Yes, This would be killer for the Lumagen Radiance. The ability to set different inputs with different Darbee settings is intriguing
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post #269 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 11:04 AM
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I can say that this was money well spent. You are right that the 3D Bee is not perfect, it does it's eat, and does it better than the built-in solutions I have seen.

But to quote above, if anything I have ever pid $250 for qualifies as "plug and play awesomeness", it's the Darblet.

It's hard to attach the term "perfect" to something, and if you push it too hard you may notice some of the Luma changes it's making, but it's got a permanent seat in my display chain now. Very, very happy with it.
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post #270 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The buzz in this thread has me very interested in this product. However, some of the enthusiasm for it reminds me of the reaction to the 3D-Bee conversion box, which was greatly hyped in the 3D Source Components forum on this site. I didn't wind up caring too much for the 3D-Bee, and I'm concerned that this might fall into the same category.

I know what you mean. When you've been around the block on this kind of stuff you get wary. I've lost count of the number of audiophile tweaky products that started exactly like this - they all start with breathless reports from new users which is why they get hype in the first place - yet so many
turn out to be a disappointment and just die away.

But I'm rolling the dice again and getting a Darblet. The price is right and I'm excited to try one out.
R Harkness is offline  
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