Recommendation for Comb Filter for NES via Sony PVM - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Sony PVM-3230 on which to play my old consoles, like NES, SNES, Genesis, etc. I have SCART cables for all except NES, which is composite only. The PVM series has no comb filter on the composite input, so it looks terrible. I've been compensating for this with a Kramer FC-10D comb filter, which is an ok solution, but suffers badly from motion blur. I need a recommendation for a high-performance 3D comb filter for my composite NES. Must have s-video out (RGB/component OK). Budget sub-$200. Hopefully much less. I'd rather not use a VCR.
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post #2 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 01:45 PM
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If you want it to look even half decent, you are going to have to have the system RGB modded (and possibly to pick up a processor that can do 240p RGB)... period. Sorry. Comb filters will never produce a decent picture from composite. The best they can do is "not AS bad." The difference in detail/sharpness would be very obvious, even on a NES, even if you completely disregard all rainbowing and dot crawl and the fact that removing them usually involves dropping even more detail (though I think it's worth it if it's the only option - but composite will always look like garbage).

http://hackaday.com/2011/07/18/hacking-your-nesfamicom-console-for-better-video-and-audio/

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post #3 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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The issue w/ RGB is that the color palette is completely different. If there's a way to convert the RGB color palette to NTSC, I'd be interested.
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post #4 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daskrabs View Post

The issue w/ RGB is that the color palette is completely different. If there's a way to convert the RGB color palette to NTSC, I'd be interested.

Do you mean the colorspace, RGB vs YUV/YIQ (what NTSC uses)? See this site: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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post #5 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 03:13 PM
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I find this whole "wrong palette" argument quite ridiculous. The difference on MOST games is not this big and the jump in quality (RGB vs. composite) is so huge, that it's easily worth the "wrong" colors here and there. None of the stand alone comb filters (including the Entech SVSI or CVSI-1) are worth the effort or the money. Best comb filter I know is in the Pioneer DVD/HDD recorders, but I wouldn't play NES games through it. RGB all the way!
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post #6 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I see your point, but the Playchoice PPU is expensive and hard to come by. I like the idea of keeping the original PPU and getting the most out of it. Sure, it will never rival RGB, but it CAN look good. I just need to find a comb filter with comparable performance to my Kramer box, but without the motion blur, like a Sony CRT TV. NES looks great on that. Something about those Sony comb filters...
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post #7 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 06:17 PM
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Try to get an Entech SVSI-1 or CVSI-1. The last ones went for about $80-100 on eBay.

It has recently been discovered that several of the PPUs from the VS. kits can be used to do the RGB mod. You just have to add a little IC. You would have to spend about $75-80 for a RGB PPU and maybe another $50 to have the mod done.

If you play NES a lot, get both, a RGB modded one and one with the original PPU for games which don't like the RGB palette.
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post #8 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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FYI, from here.

I'll look for the Entech ones, and I may try out a S-VHS VCR with s-video out as a cheap test case.
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post #9 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 12:37 PM
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Wow, that original palette looks even worse than I expected. So much waste with colors that look way too similar for such a small palette size.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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post #10 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 04:27 PM
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Fudoh, are Faroudja Super NTSC Decoder boxes any good? There are some for damn cheap on Ebay. I won't be buying one myself either way, but just seemed interesting to me.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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post #11 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 04:41 PM
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I once (really once, around 1998) I had a VP-100: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_4_2/faroudja100.html

I can't remember having it tried on videogame material, but they were quite solid on laserdisc material and hold up fine until I got my HLD-X9 a few years later.
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post #12 of 15 Old 07-26-2012, 08:16 AM
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I have an Entech CVSI-1 in working condition with owners manual. Contact me if you want it.
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post #13 of 15 Old 12-05-2012, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd like to bump this to say that I originally mentioned that the Kramer suffers from motion blur. This is false. I actually mistakenly had DNR (digital noise reduction) enabled on the PVM, which caused the blur. The Kramer is a champ for cleaning up an NES image. I'd recommend it highly. Downside is some minor vertical jailbars, but usually not noticable except when the background is a solid color.
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post #14 of 15 Old 12-05-2012, 12:02 PM
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Have to compared the Kramer to something else, maybe something better known ? I find it a bold statement to say that the Kramer's a champ without a direct comparison to, let's say, an Entech.
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post #15 of 15 Old 12-05-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

I find this whole "wrong palette" argument quite ridiculous. The difference on MOST games is not this big and the jump in quality (RGB vs. composite) is so huge, that it's easily worth the "wrong" colors here and there. None of the stand alone comb filters (including the Entech SVSI or CVSI-1) are worth the effort or the money. Best comb filter I know is in the Pioneer DVD/HDD recorders

Hmm, I wonder if the Pioneer recorders that were sold in Japan have the same comb filter. I don't see why they wouldn't (except possibly for their BD recorders, I think those were just Sharp rebrands), but if I were to try one, are there any tests that you can suggest?
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