Line doubling 480p to 960p? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
CRTFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So I've been hooking my Wii up to my CRT monitor with a transcoder. 480p is the lowest resolution this monitor can display, and thus it has visible scanlines. These scan lines have the effect of making the picture darker overall, so whites aren't nearly as intense as they could be. I know things would look a lot better if I could line double to 960P, as everything above 600p on this monitor has stunning color saturation.

So I've seen some standard definition "line quadruplers" that turn 480i into 960p, and I'm wondering if it would be possible to feed one of those a 480p signal and just double it. Or maybe there's a standard doubler out there that could work? I'm wary of more complex scalers, as they could introduce a delay in the signal, but I'm open to that stuff too.
CRTFTW is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 01:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Fudoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
With a progressive 480p source you're on the safe side, when it comes to delays. Most processors can manage those kinds of signal at pretty low lags (0.5 frames on the DVDOs). You need a processor on which you can set a custom output resolution and I assume you require an analogie RGBHV output for your CRT, so you might want to look into an DVDO iScan VP30. You can set the output resolution to 1280x960p. Should work pretty well.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fudoh is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
CRTFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the suggestion, definitely out of my price range though. I'm hoping there's a more simple piece of equipment that I can score on ebay for under 50 bucks. I imagine there are lots of unused scalers and doublers on the market, as people replace their DVD collection with Blu-rays and use their display's built in scaler. I would also like to find one that is purely analog, with no digital transformation of the picture, if that's even possible.
CRTFTW is offline  
post #4 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 03:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Fudoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
No, that's not possible. Even if you only have an analogue RGBHV output, the signal runs through a A/D converter first and after the scaling again through an A/D stage.

Check the link in my signature. I tried nearly every scaler you can find out there. A VP30 runs you about $160 if you're lucky. You might be able to pick up an iScan HD/HD+ for about $100. The earlier Lumagen units (Vision Pro/HDP) are slightly more expensive ($200-250).


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fudoh is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
CRTFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Oh yeah, I've been by your page before. I'll definitely keep a look out on ebay for those scalers.

In the meantime I'll just deal with the transcoder I have now. The colors are still very accurate, they just don't pop at 480p like Wipeout HD does at 1080p. My monitor does have a "super bright" mode, which I was exited about at first because it definitely got the Wii menu to the blinding level of white it is on most displays, but it just ended up crushing all light grays in the process. So I just went back to the subdued whites with good overall contrast in standard mode.

By the way, I saw at the bottom of your page you were waiting on the super slim PS3. Have you picked one up yet? If so, have you noticed any issues with any games? I just got one and I've noticed that in the Wipeout HD menu, whenever the second loop of the menu music begins, it starts skipping like a CD. Definitely didn't happen on my old 60BG fat model (which I decided to sell because the color clipping and lag in backwards compatability mode). I've also read elsewhere that people are having issues with Uncharted 3 on the super slims. I hope these are very isolated issues, because I really like the look of this thing and how it stacks neatly on top of my PS2.
CRTFTW is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 11:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Fudoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
By the way, I saw at the bottom of your page you were waiting on the super slim PS3
yes, I have a white SuperSlim and I installed a 250GB SSD into it. With the games I have I didn't run into any problems (yet), but I only rarely use it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fudoh is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 01-21-2013, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
CRTFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have another question Fudoh. Can the VP30 take a1080p image and letterbox inside a 1920x1440 area? If so I would be much more likely to pick one up. When I display 1080p and shrink it vertically to get the correct aspect ratio, there is a little stretching at the top of the image. That's not the case with PC games that output 1440p with letterboxing.
CRTFTW is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 01-21-2013, 04:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Fudoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
None of the current (or past) VPs can output 1920x1440p60, since it's above the usual 165Mhz timing limitation.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fudoh is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 01-22-2013, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
CRTFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok, well it can still throw 720p in a 960p box for me, so hat helps too. The VP30 sounds like the unit for me. A half-frame delay is a good trade for 2x the color saturation.

Do you know if the VP50 is even better with lag? It seems like it is something designers considered given what I've read about on IGN and elsewhere.
CRTFTW is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 01-22-2013, 08:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Fudoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
VP30 and VP50 are basically identical - and so is the lag. The VP50 added proper deinterlacing for 1080i sources and I think they tweaked the scaling engine a little bit, but it's not worth the upgrade, if you're not aiming at using it for 1080i sources.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fudoh is offline  
Reply Video Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off