Would a video processor help reduce input lag for gaming? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-26-2013, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm just thinking, if you have an external video processor doing all the processing stuff instead of the TV, would it somehow reduce the lag seen on video games at all. Or Would it just increase it further?

My Samsung PS51E6500 has an input lag of 16ms in PC which is great. But I'll be replacing it soon with a Mitsubishi DLP projector which from the reviews, has an input lag of 34ms.


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post #2 of 18 Old 01-26-2013, 01:27 PM
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The video processor lag will be ADDED to the lag your display has when being fed it's native resolution. You can usually use a video processor to reduce the lag your display introduces when handling 15khz sources (240p, 480i), but you're out of luck if you only feed progressive signals like 720p or 1080p.


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post #3 of 18 Old 01-26-2013, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. But why would a resolution closer to the native res of the display introduce more lag, and one that is 480i (which I also use) reduces it?


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post #4 of 18 Old 01-26-2013, 04:47 PM
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because most TV sets need considerably more time when processing a 15khz signal like 480i. 15khz signals need to be deinterlaced and if the TV set has a motion adaptive deinterlacer then at least 2~3 frames have to be buffered for analysis. Progressive signals on the hand hand, just have to be scaled and what reviews usually test are HD signals from a 360 or a PS3.

If you now take a video processor with a fast game mode for processing 480i sources, then you get the "fast scaling-only" delay from your TV plus the time the processor needs for deinterlacing (which is usually faster than having it done by the TV itself).


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post #5 of 18 Old 01-27-2013, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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So your saying that a SD Interlaced resolution takes more time to process than a HD progressive resolution? Resulting in a bit more lag.

Or the other way around lol.


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post #6 of 18 Old 02-02-2013, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

The video processor lag will be ADDED to the lag your display has when being fed it's native resolution. You can usually use a video processor to reduce the lag your display introduces when handling 15khz sources (240p, 480i), but you're out of luck if you only feed progressive signals like 720p or 1080p.
Why exactly would the TV still add lag when it's the video processor doing the processing? Surely it would just display it untouched.


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post #7 of 18 Old 02-03-2013, 05:37 AM
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because TV don't have a "bypass" function. The signals run through the same processing (deinterlacing, scaling, postprocessing) no matter what resolution they are. Usually at least the deinterlacer can tell if it's needed or not, so the delay for progressive signals is lower than for interlaced ones, but the rest of the processing time stays the same.


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post #8 of 18 Old 02-03-2013, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Very strange that. I don't get how a TV could upscale twice, as it's already been upscaled by the processor. It understands that it doesn't need deinterlacing twice as you said which is a good thing, I think.

I did notice today that I was playing an Original Xbox game being upscaled (and deinterlaced as I'm in the PAL region), and I could see and feel lag, but it wasn't too bad.


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post #9 of 18 Old 02-04-2013, 02:20 AM
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TVs overscan even when fed native res unless you use 1:1: whether it still goes through the scaler chip I dunno.

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post #10 of 18 Old 02-09-2013, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi.

I'm just wondering now about this. If a video processors lag will be added to the TVs lag, whT would happen to the Xbox 360s scaler?

So, most Xbox 360 games are 720p native, the Xbox 360 can takover the scaling. Would doing this increase lag or reduce it?


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post #11 of 18 Old 02-10-2013, 04:42 AM
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If you run progressive HD content through a video processor, the lag will increase. *Most* (not all, but really most) TVs show the same processing delay for 720p and 1080p feeds (again, caused by the same processing path for both signals). If you add an external scaler, it's delay will be added to the TV's delay.

This said, most external scalers are quite fast when processing 720p signals. DVDOs for example add 6-7ms.


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post #12 of 18 Old 02-10-2013, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

If you run progressive HD content through a video processor, the lag will increase. *Most* (not all, but really most) TVs show the same processing delay for 720p and 1080p feeds (again, caused by the same processing path for both signals). If you add an external scaler, it's delay will be added to the TV's delay.

This said, most external scalers are quite fast when processing 720p signals. DVDOs for example add 6-7ms.
I meant just the Xbox 360s scaler, not a video processor.

Unless that still applys and the Xbox 360s scaling lag will be added to the displays?


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post #13 of 18 Old 02-10-2013, 05:17 AM
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The XBox360's internal scaler in mandatory, so you have no way to compare it to an unscaled output. The XBox games run at all kinds of internal resolutions. Most run at something between 540p and 600p with widely ranging horizontal resolutions. Games running at the sweetspot (1280x720 or 1920x1080) are rare. It's a myth that most 360 games are 720p native. When review sites or magazines refer to games running internally at 720p, you usually just mean that their native rendered resolution is CLOSER to 720p than to 1080p.

For example Halo 3 runs internally at 1152×640.


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post #14 of 18 Old 02-10-2013, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

The XBox360's internal scaler in mandatory, so you have no way to compare it to an unscaled output. The XBox games run at all kinds of internal resolutions. Most run at something between 540p and 600p with widely ranging horizontal resolutions. Games running at the sweetspot (1280x720 or 1920x1080) are rare. It's a myth that most 360 games are 720p native. When review sites or magazines refer to games running internally at 720p, you usually just mean that their native rendered resolution is CLOSER to 720p than to 1080p.

For example Halo 3 runs internally at 1152×640.
thanks. Yes I knew that most console games run in some odd resolutions, I just wanted to know if the upscaling from the 360 would be a bad idea for lag, will its lag be added to the TVs? Or is that only applicable to seperate video processors?


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post #15 of 18 Old 02-19-2013, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, stupid question there. I get it now after just re reading this thread.

Why exactly do you advise people to connect the progressive consoles directly to the TV like the PS3? obviously because of lag, but is it because the scaling in TVs are very good any way? so the difference between the video processors scaling and the TVs wouldn't be very different. I'm guessing it's all about the deinterlacing that makes the difference.


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post #16 of 18 Old 02-19-2013, 07:32 AM
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There are visible differences in scaling by different displays or processors. 720p to 1080p is much easier though compared to 480p to 1080p. For XBox360 and PS3 it's a no brainer for me. Directly into the TV is the easiest way, has the lowest lag due to no additional processing and is the cheapest anyway.

480p (Wii, Cube, PS2) is a whole differenent matter though. Here external processors can give you a considerably better picture which might be worth the extra lag introduced by the scaler.


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post #17 of 18 Old 02-19-2013, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

There are visible differences in scaling by different displays or processors. 720p to 1080p is much easier though compared to 480p to 1080p. For XBox360 and PS3 it's a no brainer for me. Directly into the TV is the easiest way, has the lowest lag due to no additional processing and is the cheapest anyway.

480p (Wii, Cube, PS2) is a whole differenent matter though. Here external processors can give you a considerably better picture which might be worth the extra lag introduced by the scaler.
I get it now, yes.

I remember you recommended me a few items for my setup which I'll lookup again later, but what would you say is the fastest video processor for games, meaning lag.


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post #18 of 18 Old 02-19-2013, 01:08 PM
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for HDMI output the DVDO processors in gamemode are pretty fast (0.5 frame delay). For VGA output the XRGB processors (2, 2plus, 3) are even faster.


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