New Lumagen Radiance Video Processor (Radiance 2021) coming out - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 160 Old 03-04-2013, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Today, March 4, 2013, Lumagen® is announcing the availability of the first Radiance™ video processor with integrated Darbee Visual Presence™ technology (DVP). This product is named the Radiance 2021™, and first ship date is expected to be 3/12/2013. The Radiance 2021 has four HDMI inputs, two HDMI outputs, and a COAX audio output in a 2” (1.75” without feet) by 17” rack mountable (with optional rack ears) case. It uses an external 12 VDC power supply (same as XE), and has one RS232 control/update port and a wired IR input port. Its video feature set matches the XS, with the addition of DVP technology.

The Radiance 2021 retails for $2795 in the USA. DVP is an image enhancement technology that can create the illusion of more depth in the image. DVP technology will only be going into the new products, since it does not fit in the FPGA used for the current Mini/XS/XD/XE products.

Introductory pricing is available on the new Radiance 2021 until 3/31/13. Please call for details.

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post #2 of 160 Old 03-04-2013, 03:58 PM
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It be nice if each Output could have it's own CMS. That is what I am waiting for.

As well as Soft edge blending abilities. Hopefully they will add Soft edge blending to the Radiance Pro.

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post #3 of 160 Old 03-04-2013, 03:59 PM
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Looks like a cool concept. 4 in and two outs would make life very convenient with Darblet feature. Just wish it did 4K like my Marantz 8801, Oppo 103, Onkyo Receivers and Sony 790 Blu ray player can. Tempting but....eek.gifsmile.gif

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post #4 of 160 Old 03-04-2013, 06:27 PM
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Other than the DVP being integrated, are there any changes from the previous model to this newer one?

It is nice to see a device that doesn't have any analog inputs/outputs. I wish all devices would go this route.

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post #5 of 160 Old 03-04-2013, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Other than the DVP being integrated, are there any changes from the previous model to this newer one?

The Radiance 2021 has the same setup, calibration and processing as the RadianceXS-3D, with the one addition of the Darbee Visual Presence(TM) technology. It has the same four HDMI inputs, two HDMI outputs, plus COAX audio output of the XS-3D, eliminates the analog video that the XS-3D has, and is $200 retails less than the RadianceXS-3D at $2795 MSRP.

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post #6 of 160 Old 03-05-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post

The Radiance 2021 has the same setup, calibration and processing as the RadianceXS-3D.

Is that different than the setup, calibration and processing of the Mini?

Does Lumagen have a trade-in program? I have a Mini, which I bought used.

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post #7 of 160 Old 03-05-2013, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

It is nice to see a device that doesn't have any analog inputs/outputs. I wish all devices would go this route.

Some of us still have legacy analog video sources that we like to use on occasion.

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post #8 of 160 Old 03-05-2013, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Some of us still have legacy analog video sources that we like to use on occasion.

I like to run my security camera system into my theater so having an analog input somewhere helps. Comes in handy when watching a game and waiting for the pizza guy to show up. And also to check the yard every once in a while. smile.gif

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post #9 of 160 Old 03-05-2013, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Is that different than the setup, calibration and processing of the Mini?

Does Lumagen have a trade-in program? I have a Mini, which I bought used.

The Radiance 2021 has the same video setup, processing and calibration as the RadianceMini-3D, the RadianceXS-3D, and RadianceXE-3D. It works the same as the older units with calibration software such as Calman and Chromapure.

We are considering a trade-in program for the new Radiance 2021, but it will be a month or two before we implement anything in this regard. Please feel free to email sales@lumagen.com sometime in April to see if we have come up with anything for trade-ins.

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post #10 of 160 Old 03-05-2013, 11:02 PM
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Will do, thanks, Jim

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post #11 of 160 Old 03-06-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post

The Radiance 2021 has the same video setup, processing and calibration as the RadianceMini-3D, the RadianceXS-3D, and RadianceXE-3D. It works the same as the older units with calibration software such as Calman and Chromapure.

We are considering a trade-in program for the new Radiance 2021, but it will be a month or two before we implement anything in this regard. Please feel free to email sales@lumagen.com sometime in April to see if we have come up with anything for trade-ins.

I have a Radiance Mini (purchased in December, 2012 from AVS) and a standalone Darblet. I may follow-up on this myself smile.gif.

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post #12 of 160 Old 03-06-2013, 12:51 PM
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I guess I'm missing something here but isn't the primary purpose of a scaler to upconvert SD source material? By not providing Analog inputs what you really have in this new Lumagen is just a color management device - which is still nevertheless quite useful. OK, you also have an HDMI switcher too plus the Darblet.

But how do you watch DVDs these days. With a BluRay player? Because then you are at the mercy of the BluRay players up conversion technology, which can be quite good in some units as well as piss-poor and price doesn't always mean a better upconversion. Just depends on who's chip they use.

I still go for the the SDI out interlaced player into an external scaler as I think that's the best quality possible. I just moved form a DVDO VP50 to a Teranex 2D. I have two Pioneer Blurays, A BDP-05 and a BDP-53 and the old Panasonic SDI modded RP56 still provides the best SD DVD quality.

P.S. I have three Ebay RP56's in the garage for parts! Long live SDI DVD players! The trend today is HDMI or bust!

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post #13 of 160 Old 03-06-2013, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

I guess I'm missing something here but isn't the primary purpose of a scaler to upconvert SD source material? By not providing Analog inputs what you really have in this new Lumagen is just a color management device - which is still nevertheless quite useful. OK, you also have an HDMI switcher

Not quite: you can put your sources on passthrough/native mode, and even connected by HDMI, have the Lumagen handle the SD upconversion.

For example, I have an Oppo BDP-93. I have it set to Source Direct, which outputs SD DVDs at 480i (NTSC) or 576i (PAL), and BluRays at 1080i/p native resolution. The Oppo feeds via HDMI to my Denon 4311 AVR, which performs switching duties. The AVR is set to passthrough (i/p Scaler=Off), and it outputs a single HDMI connection to my Lumagen Radiance Mini.

On the Mini, we do the upconversion and scaling, and I have different virtual inputs for my sources (TiVo, BluRay/DVD, Apple TV). With modern AVRs, as long as you still have an analog video input if you need one (e.g. a DirectTV cable box), dropping analog video from the Lumagen isn't important with this kind of setup.

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post #14 of 160 Old 03-06-2013, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

For example, I have an Oppo BDP-93. I have it set to Source Direct, which outputs SD DVDs at 480i (NTSC) or 576i (PAL), and BluRays at 1080i/p native resolution. The Oppo feeds via HDMI to my Denon 4311 AVR, which performs switching duties. The AVR is set to passthrough for HDMI video, and it outputs a single HDMI connection to my Lumagen Radiance Mini.

Yeah, that would work. So the new Lumagen does have SD upconversion albeit only through HDMI? I am always suspicious of these "Direct out" players as you never really know what tricks they are up to inside the ASICs. Could be a progressive de-interlace that is re-interlaced on output. For example I looked at XBMC to replace my DVD player with a ripping server. XBMC does now support interlaced output through video cards that support interlaced. But here's the rub - Mplayer which is what XBMC is based on is a progressive player period. So what XBMC does is to "re-interlace" the video stream. And like most software based de-interlacers, the Mplayer is not ideal, at least compared to a true interlaced player. VLC does support interlaced 1080i very nicely as I use that for my DVHS originated movie server but not 480i. I tried that too.

What I really want is a software based DVD image player that outputs true interlaced direct from the disc image to an SDI card and let the external hardware scaler do the work. Unfortunately this is a rare request. I might try and play with old Creative Labs and Hollywood Plus cards which can be SDI modified but finding modern player software that still supports them will be a big problem.

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post #15 of 160 Old 03-06-2013, 03:26 PM
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Glimmie:

I would love to hear all about the Teranex 2D, although this is probably not the thread for this....
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post #16 of 160 Old 03-06-2013, 04:20 PM
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Glimmie:

I would love to hear all about the Teranex 2D, although this is probably not the thread for this....

I plan to do some extensive viewing / tweaking this weekend. I will report Monday in a new thread. So far I don't see anything bad but noting that jumps out either over the VP50 in terms of image quality. But too soon to tell.

I can report this: as advertised and reported previously, IT DOES NOT PASS HDCP AT ALL. My dish PVR would not pass HDMI through the Teraxex. Interesting in that HDCP is only supposed to be turned on for HBO and Cinemax - or so I thought?

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post #17 of 160 Old 03-06-2013, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

I plan to do some extensive viewing / tweaking this weekend. I will report Monday in a new thread. So far I don't see anything bad but noting that jumps out either over the VP50 in terms of image quality. But too soon to tell.

I can report this: as advertised and reported previously, IT DOES NOT PASS HDCP AT ALL. My dish PVR would not pass HDMI through the Teraxex. Interesting in that HDCP is only supposed to be turned on for HBO and Cinemax - or so I thought?

Looks like you need A moome MUX-HD(VF-01). that will solve your HDCP issues.

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post #18 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 02:31 AM
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Glimmie,

Lumagen do SDI option on XS and i think there will be an option on some future products....so if you really must have SDI and you want the best processing then you still have option of Lumagen.

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post #19 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 08:39 AM
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Howdy.....will a new Mimi with DVP be coming out in the near future?
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post #20 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 08:46 AM
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Howdy.....will a new Mimi with DVP be coming out in the near future?

We do not have plans for a Mini with Darbee at this time. This could of course change in the future, and as always we do take customer feedback into account in our planning.

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post #21 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 09:07 AM
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+1 with possible interest on a Mini -> 2021 trade-in program.

Question about the two HDMI outputs on the 2021:
Are they identical or can one assign different styles to each output? Or say have one for Audio only and another for Video only?

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post #22 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

+1 with possible interest on a Mini -> 2021 trade-in program.

Question about the two HDMI outputs on the 2021:
Are they identical or can one assign different styles to each output? Or say have one for Audio only and another for Video only?

Its the same as current range.....they are either identical or one can just carry audio with blanked video. You can't apply different styles or cms or anything like that to them both at the same time.

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post #23 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

P.S. I have three Ebay RP56's in the garage for parts! Long live SDI DVD players!

You want my old Denon DVD-1600 with SDI mod? I can't bring myself to throw it out, but it's not worth much of anything at resale anymore. It's sitting in my attic currently.

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post #24 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

Glimmie,

Lumagen do SDI option on XS and i think there will be an option on some future products....so if you really must have SDI and you want the best processing then you still have option of Lumagen.

Is that done with an outboard SDI to HDMI converter? I seem to remember that.

At this phase of my HT I am going more into HDSDI. I have an HDSDI modified BluRay, my media server has an HDSDI equipped Nvidia card. The only HDMI source left is the Dish PVR and I don't use that for crititcal viewing - just DIY network, History Channel, and such so that doesn't need the processor. Although an HDSDI output from the Dish PVR would be nice too.

I also have some Videotek VTM400 VGA scopes that are HDSDI. So the current flow is the Media Server, Bluray, DVD, NTSC decoder (for laserdisk) , all into the Teraxex via SDI/HDSDI via an HDSDI 4x2 switch. The Teranex will output 1080P/60 via HDMI through a 4x1 HDMI switch to pick up the PVR and then to the Darbee into the projector. If I decide to add CMS, I can throw a Black magic "HDLinkpro" on the Teranex HDSDI dual link output then run the HDMI from the HDlink through the Darbee onto the projector.

Crazy isn't it but this is an "engineers" system. Not for the typical HT movie fan! In addition to the lack of HDCP support, the other problem with the new Teranex for HT use is the lack of input switching. It's more of a pro product in this respect and not at all user friendly for an average HT setup. Likewise the Lumagen lacks some of the control features needed in a pro converter. They each have their markets and the Teranex is not at all being pushed as an HT product.

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post #25 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Is that done with an outboard SDI to HDMI converter? I seem to remember that.

At this phase of my HT I am going more into HDSDI. I have an HDSDI modified BluRay, my media server has an HDSDI equipped Nvidia card. The only HDMI source left is the Dish PVR and I don't use that for crititcal viewing - just DIY network, History Channel, and such so that doesn't need the processor. Although an HDSDI output from the Dish PVR would be nice too.

I also have some Videotek VTM400 VGA scopes that are HDSDI. So the current flow is the Media Server, Bluray, DVD, NTSC decoder (for laserdisk) , all into the Teraxex via SDI/HDSDI via an HDSDI 4x2 switch. The Teranex will output 1080P/60 via HDMI through a 4x1 HDMI switch to pick up the PVR and then to the Darbee into the projector. If I decide to add CMS, I can throw a Black magic "HDLinkpro" on the Teranex HDSDI dual link output then run the HDMI from the HDlink through the Darbee onto the projector.

Crazy isn't it but this is an "engineers" system. Not for the typical HT movie fan! In addition to the lack of HDCP support, the other problem with the new Teranex for HT use is the lack of input switching. It's more of a pro product in this respect and not at all user friendly for an average HT setup. Likewise the Lumagen lacks some of the control features needed in a pro converter. They each have their markets and the Teranex is not at all being pushed as an HT product.

Glimee:

The HD-SDI Equipped Nvidia card, does this card ouput source direct unmodified?
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post #26 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 12:32 PM
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Glimee:

The HD-SDI Equipped Nvidia card, does this card ouput source direct unmodified?

It can but that all depends on the application software. The version of VLC I run does output true 1080i from DVHS ripped files but it will not output 480i properly from a DVD image. I tried a later version of VLC and that had other problems with gamma so I didn't even dig into the interlaced support.

This is a standard option from Nvidia and is not a mod. The newer FX5500 SDI cards seem to just have an DVI to HDSDI converter as a seperate board that just gets power and control signals from the base FX5500 cards. I like the older FX4400 as it has the HDSDI more deeply integrated into the GPU. I guess it was cheaper to go the DVI route in later products thus only having to make one base GPU card for everyone. These Nvidia HDSDI have problems with spec compliance. It's the classic problem of computer graphics engineers trying to do TV! At work we have issues feeding standard broadcast gear at times with the Nvidia cards. Most pro products now use the AJA Kona interface for these reasons. But for just display purposes, the Nvidia SDI works fine.

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post #27 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 03:31 PM
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No it's not a third party sdi to hdmi device...it is an internal option either dual sdi or dual 3gsdi for Radiance XS3D.

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post #28 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 06:26 PM
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No it's not a third party sdi to hdmi device...it is an internal option either dual sdi or dual 3gsdi for Radiance XS3D.

OK I see it now. That's good they put the SDI option back in the product line, IMO.

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post #29 of 160 Old 03-07-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
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Its the same as current range.....they are either identical or one can just carry audio with blanked video. You can't apply different styles or cms or anything like that to them both at the same time.
Thanks Gordon.
I thought this was the case but I wasn't sure.

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post #30 of 160 Old 03-09-2013, 05:15 PM
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Location: Fitchburg,MA
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Hi Josh Z. I have sent you a pm. Please let me know.thnx
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