Line Doubler / Quadrupler for Laserdisc? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-02-2013, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I have an old iScan HD+ that has, unfortunately, ceased operation.

I was using the iScan HD+ for several reasons.

(1) to line double/quadruple a laserdisc source

(2) to change the LD and standard DVD signals to progressive such as 720p

(3) "on the fly" zooming in/out of letterboxed LD for a 16 x 9 HDTV Sampo monitor. (Also applies to some DVDs that inexplicably are 4:3 w/ letterboxing). Of course I need the zoom to retain the correct ratios, and essentially "chop off" the top and bottom letterboxing.

(4) to pass through DVI from my Samsung OTA broadcast HDTV tuner.

Did I mention I prefer inputs -- S-video, composite, and interlaced component, with outputs DB-15 or possibly YPBPR component.

Therefore....

Can you help me get the best product for my purposes?

I did find there is something called Communications Specialities Inc (CSI) "Deuce" 2230 HD and 2240 SDQ, but I need 1 box with the combined functions, plus DVI (if possible). These units sound like they are still manufactured, but may be 10+ year-old technology? Is there anything else out there still being manufactured that is any good ??

Thanks for any advice...
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post #2 of 22 Old 06-02-2013, 05:21 PM
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Of the units still available new you won't find anything with analogue outputs. Everything HDMI-only on the output side.

If you really need analogue outputs, then go back a few generations. An iScan VP30 or VP50 will suit your needs.
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post #3 of 22 Old 06-15-2013, 07:41 AM
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As the OP hasn't responded, I wonder Fudoh if you can answer a more general question i.e. the "best" VP for a laserdisc player. I marvelled at your webpage about VPs, and see that you use a VP-50 Pro with your LD player, but using the S-Video connection. You also state that the Entech CSVI-1 has the best comb filter you have seen, and that while the DVDO Edge is other ways is on a par with the VP50, that it has a lousy comb filter (for yellow Composite inputs).

All this sorta makes me dizzy, so if you could summarize your thoughts about the best Video Processors for Laserdisc (for presentation to a modern 1080p display) I would be most grateful.

I should add that I do not have a high-end LD player as yours--mine is a CLD-3080 so I would be using its Composite output I believe, not S-Vid.
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post #4 of 22 Old 06-15-2013, 07:51 AM
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Actually I disagree that the edge is a bad comb filter..it is not great but I found it better that many of them..that cvsi-1 I found to have more noise than the edge.. the overall best wss in the crystallio ii..however at this stage with all other equipment and hdmi..the crystallio is pretty much only useful for composite and compenent sources.
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post #5 of 22 Old 06-15-2013, 12:56 PM
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There's a tiny problem with my site (I admit): it's been written over several years and it's in no particular order, so statements might be out of context from time to time - for example when I mention the CVSI-1.

Best comb filter I have at home is the one in my Pioneer DVR. S-Video from my X9 is unusable - checkerboard patterns all over the place. My processing chain for Laserdisc is:

HLD X9 (composite) > Pioneer DVR (component) > Algolith Mosquito (component) > VP50Pro.

Why the 50Pro over the CII ? Because in my opinion the 50Pro has the better cadence detection (close call) and the better video deinterlacing (by quite some margin). Also the Edge and Detail Enhancement controls on the 50Pro allow great fine tuning by using heavily negative settings.
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post #6 of 22 Old 06-15-2013, 02:23 PM
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I would agree that the 50 pro is a better choice overall compared to the cii due to everything else the 50 can do...the cii is basically useless at this point except for ld...if you ran your x9 composite straight to the cii it would look fantastic.. but if other sources are involved then the cii is useless.. such a shame...if I could get a cii for 200 I would just for laserdisc...nothing else
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-16-2013, 05:26 AM
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What do you guys think about the Lumagen VisionHDQ and LD Composite-Out?
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post #8 of 22 Old 06-16-2013, 05:46 AM
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I found that the HDQ had the horrible checkerboarding effect on the picture... I tried several tweeks but could never get rid of it.
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post #9 of 22 Old 06-16-2013, 07:45 AM
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Well, it does seem like the Lumagens are very complex vs. the DVDO products. Do you know if the VP50PRO offers anything over the VP50 if all I'm using it for is laserdisc composite?
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post #10 of 22 Old 06-16-2013, 12:40 PM
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Yes, in general the older DVDOs pronouce flaws in the source material due to their sharper and more aggressive scaling engine. On the VP20/30/50 you get very little control over this. All you have is a very coarse sharpness slider which you can set to -1 instead of 0 (with 0 already introducing considerably ringing). The 50Pro adds seperate controls for Edge and Detail Enhancement which are very fine and detailed. You can set edge enhancement to a high negative value (-30) and add a little detail enhancement (+6) instead to give very smooth results. If you don't require anamorphic controls for projection, the Edge offers the same controls as the 50Pro.
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post #11 of 22 Old 06-16-2013, 01:09 PM
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I also have the edge...from what I read it was the same processor in all of them..and the edge can be found pretty cheap now..
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post #12 of 22 Old 06-17-2013, 12:51 PM
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Thanks guys, I did find a "cheap" Edge Green (Amazon Warehouse) and will give that a go--I really appreciate the help.

I still have a question about the Edge that hasn't gotten answered in the other thread (can video processing be bypassed altogether for connecting my BD w/multichannel analog) but now I'm getting one and will find-out for myself.

Thanks again!
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post #13 of 22 Old 06-17-2013, 07:08 PM
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I know it has a pass through optuon for 3d
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post #14 of 22 Old 06-21-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balboarules View Post

I know it has a pass through optuon for 3d
I got my Edge Green and can detect no lipsync issues with my BD player w/multichannel audio-out, so I'm good with it.

Haven't hooked-up the LD player yet but looking forward to it. The Edge Green was trivially easy to get running out-of-the-box and looks like a terrific product.
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post #15 of 22 Old 08-28-2013, 02:17 PM
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Every year or so I get a wild hair want to go through my LD collection. I don't have the best player and I have some equipment to go into my room but my plan when I get everything sorted out again is Pioneer LD-S9 composite -> Faroudja comb filer (can't think of the specifics but it better than the filter in the S9 which is good in its own right) S-Video -> Entech component converter -> Algolith Mosquito -> DVDO VP50Pro (for deinterlacing only) 480p HDMI -> Lumagen radiance XS for scaling to 1080p. Of course I haven't tried that and I may find some things in the chain make things better or worse, but it's fun to try and wring every bit of detail out of Laserdisc. It's not like it's going to supplant my BD watching or anything though...

EDIT: both outboard boxes are Entech not Faroudja. My memory was hazy... The Faroudja piece is the CFD-SD SuperNTSC Decoder (trying to get info on it)
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post #16 of 22 Old 08-28-2013, 06:13 PM
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been there, done that - a few thoughts:

- the Entech is likely the better comb filter than the Faroudja. I had both, although there were quite a few years between them.
- 50Pro for deinterlacing isn't ideal, because already the deinterlacing stage introduces ringing and artefacts. If you really want a multi processor setup, get a VP50, not a 50Pro.
- When you use the Lumagen for scaling, you can't properly apply the Gennum's enhancement tools as the Lumagen applies them prior to scaling.

If you already have the 50Pro I would use it for scaling. It makes laserdiscs looks quite crisp. Invest in a better comb filter though. Both the Faroudja and the Entech are not the best you can get. Check the comb filter thread here for a few suggestions. And if you really feel like a multi-processor setup, put an Edge or 50Pro behind the Lumagen, so you apply ABT's EE/DE functions to the upscaled image.
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post #17 of 22 Old 08-28-2013, 06:21 PM
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Well you shot me down! biggrin.gif Good information though, seriously. The Faroudja piece I have isn't the retail item they sold back in the day, it is from a local public access station. It's definitely a comb filter but it may be crappy! I will try the combos you suggested. I have a VP50 also in another room. The Lumagen is the main scaler for the theater and I was just looking to use what I had lying around. Thanks for the tips!
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post #18 of 22 Old 08-29-2013, 07:44 PM
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I dug out my various devices so give me another impression if you will.

Pioneer LDS9 player
Entech SVSI-1
Entech CVSI-1
Faroudja CFD-SN SuperNTSC Decoder (may be better served as a paper weight...not sure) found a link for it
http://www.biggerbids.com/auction-image-gallery.php?auction_id=547144&image_id=3223416
Algolith Mosquito
DVDO VP50
Lumagen Radiance XS

What would you toss and what would you use? The Lumagen is my main scaler for all other sources. VP50 was going on th classifieds but if it will help the LD side of things I'll hang on to it. I kmow this is all trial and error but any solid opinions you have, let me hear them.

I'm also not ruling out the fact that maybe, just maybe, the comb filter in that Japanese import LD player may be better for me.
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post #19 of 22 Old 08-30-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post

I'm also not ruling out the fact that maybe, just maybe, the comb filter in that Japanese import LD player may be better for me.

The 3D comb filter in the LD-S9 and HLD-X9 (same chip) doesn't fare well with modern digital displays. At any motion in the image, colors break up into blocky "checkerboard" artifacts, even at the minimum setting. You have to turn the comb filter all the way off or use the Composite video output.

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post #20 of 22 Old 08-30-2013, 12:23 PM
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Zero experience with the S9, so no idea about it's comb filter. Give it a try with anything you know. The X9's comb filter is simply broken, it causes checkerboard effects all the time. The comparison should be easy, just run two sets of cables (composite and s-video) from the S9 to the CVSI-1 and check which looks better.

If you use the VP50 for deinterlacing, you can use the XS for further upscaling, but for my taste, the picture will miss a certain detail boost. You will have to check if your display or beamer has something to offer in this regards. I've tried this setup and found a single processor with the 50Pro to be superior.

Hardest part setting up will be the Mosquito.
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post #21 of 22 Old 08-30-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
The 3D comb filter in the LD-S9 and HLD-X9 (same chip) doesn't fare well with modern digital displays.
it's not much better on a CRT. The checkerboard patterns are present on 480i captures just as well.
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post #22 of 22 Old 08-30-2013, 12:57 PM
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Copy both of you. Thanks for the input.
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