Lumagen Radiance 20XX Support Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 243 Old 09-05-2013, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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We posted a release (082013) for the Radiance 20XX (only) that adds a 9x9x9 (729 points) RGB palette for CMS. Note that the Radiance Mini/XD/XE/XS will not get a 9x9x9 palette due to limited space in their FPGA.

The calibration software vendors (Chromapure, Light Illusion, Spectracal) should have new releases that support the new 9x9x9 very soon.

NOTICE: You should Download your configuration to a PC (don't forget to save to a file after downloading) before updating. Once you update, use the 9x9x9, and Save, you cannot revert to older software without doing a factory reset, or uploading a configuration from before the 082013 release (after rolling back software). This is because the 729 point CMS required changing the configuration memory allocation.

===========================================
Here is the text from the update log:

Production 082013- Adds new 9x9x9 (729 point) gamut correction. Previous 125 point calibrations are not modified unless you choose to do so. You can optionally change from 125 point mode to the new 729 point mode which will maintain your calibration and interpolate the new points that could then be adjusted if necessary. You can also still calibrate in 8 or 125 point mode in the menu or with older calibration software as well. Look for updates soon from SpectraCal, Chromapure and Light Illusion supporting the new Radiance 9x9x9 CMS. Fixup for potentially not detecting that 3D was discontinued by a source. A few fixes for HDMI audio handshaking. Update time ~15 minutes @57k

Notes:

This update modifies the configuration to accommodate the new 9x9x9 gamut. Try the new update for a little bit before making config changes and saving. Once you have performed a "Save" configuration command with this update and you are using CMS 2-7 then going back to previous firmware and using CMS 2-7 will give incorrect colors. You could however perform an "Undo", save that, and then go back, reload an old saved configuration file, or do a factory reset to go back if you perform a save with this new update..

The configuration utility was updated to handle the 9x9x9 gamut data so download and use config utility v1.6 after updating.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
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post #2 of 243 Old 10-08-2013, 12:56 AM
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Using a 2041. When I set CMS memory to 1 it will jump back to CMS memory 0 after maybe 10 minuets.
Seems to be a issue with not holding the CMS memory that is set.
I use LS to input LUTs (9^3) into the 2041.

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post #3 of 243 Old 10-09-2013, 07:03 AM
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i presume you saved MENU>SAVE>SAVE>SAVE after doing this change...and that it was on the specific memory and sub memory where you changed the CMS from 0 to 1 that this was happening?

Make sure to send a report to Patrick at Lumagen so he can check it out

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post #4 of 243 Old 10-14-2013, 08:20 AM
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Yes a specific memory and sub. Yes I use save and I even turn off the 2041 and restart it.
The last time did a factory reset LS calibration and loaded my 9^3 LUT's the CMS held but Custom and Style jumped from 1 to 0.

One other thing is that when I do a 17^3 profile using the 2041 only (eecolor box out of the loop), the dE chart from LS is off the charts. However when I convert the 17^3 profile, upload to the 2041 for a 9^3 LUT BT709 and then do a QP on that finished 9^3 LUT in the 2041 the dE chart from LS is ok and all under a dE of 3 or less.

I do use CM5 for a manual 10 point GS that I input into my VT60 (plasma) controls (CM5 is set to generic for display). After I am done with CM5 I do a 0999 reset and reenter my input and output settings in the 2041, yes save and restart the 2041.

The interesting part of the calibration process and entering a 9^3 LUT into the 2041. Is that when I use my go to 17^3 profile that I did using my sold Mini for a pattern source and eecolor box in the loop is that running a QP on the LUT that I uploaded to the 2041 comes out very good.

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post #5 of 243 Old 10-30-2013, 06:47 PM
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I'm looking at incorporating the new Radiance 2041 into my system. I use another older VP at the moment and a Darbee Darblet, so I like the idea of the 2041 simplifying my signal chain.

But, since I may also be buying a new projector with 4K input (Sony or JVC), I want to make sure: Can the Darbee processing be applied to every single upscaling resolution, including the 4K output?

(I haven't seen anything suggesting the 4K upscaling is excepted from the Darbee processing, but just want to make sure that with the 2041 I can apply Darbee on 1080p upscaled to 4K into my new projector).

Thanks.
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post #6 of 243 Old 10-30-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Rich:
Yes, for the Radiance 20XX units the Darbee works with all input resolutions, and all output resolutions including 4k output.

Jim Peterson
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post #7 of 243 Old 10-30-2013, 08:28 PM
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That's good to hear, thanks Jim.

Now that I think about it, that makes sense since the Darbee site says it can be used with 4K if you put the Darbee before your 4K upscaler, which is what I think you do internally in the 2014.
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post #8 of 243 Old 11-04-2013, 07:16 AM
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Yep. And if you look at it that way, as long as what goes into the Darbeevision chip is 1080p 60 or lower, the output of the chip will be at that resolution but Darbeeized and you can send it to any scaler and output it from that scaler at anything you want including 4K, 8K, 16K, and 64K.

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post #9 of 243 Old 11-08-2013, 03:28 PM
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Whoo-hoo. My Lumagen Radiance 2041 is now here.

Except I have to get it hooked into my system and programmed into my remote control system. (One of the unfortunate compromises with an otherwise nice remote system like RTI is that only installers are allowed
to program the remote...hence a call to the installer and a wait time ensues before ever being able to use a new piece of gear).

Next my Chromapure auto-calibrate system should be arriving.
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post #10 of 243 Old 11-08-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Next my Chromapure auto-calibrate system should be arriving.

I'm curious how you plan to connect this to the Lumagen when your control system is also connected (presumably through the same RS232)?

Will you have to unplug it from the control system every time you run a calibration?
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post #11 of 243 Old 11-08-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

I'm curious how you plan to connect this to the Lumagen when your control system is also connected (presumably through the same RS232)?

Will you have to unplug it from the control system every time you run a calibration?

Never thought of that. I guess, yes, if I hook it into my system via RS232 I'll have to unhook it for calibrations.

Or I could set the Lumagen up via IR I suppose. My current Denon VP is set up via IR (IR wired directly to it's IR eye) and it's operated reliably that way.

Is there any reason I should hook up the Lumagen via RS232 over IR?

ETA: Hold on. That doesn't make sense. I can't unhook the Lumagen to do a calibration; obviously it needs to be in the system for a calibration. Frankly, I'm not sure
how to set it up to be used both for auto-cal feature (Chromapure) capability, and regular use.

Anyone help?
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post #12 of 243 Old 11-08-2013, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Never thought of that. I guess, yes, if I hook it into my system via RS232 I'll have to unhook it for calibrations.

Or I could set the Lumagen up via IR I suppose. My current Denon VP is set up via IR (IR wired directly to it's IR eye) and it's operated reliably that way.

Is there any reason I should hook up the Lumagen via RS232 over IR?

ETA: Hold on. That doesn't make sense. I can't unhook the Lumagen to do a calibration; obviously it needs to be in the system for a calibration. Frankly, I'm not sure
how to set it up to be used both for auto-cal feature (Chromapure) capability, and regular use.

Anyone help?

The Lumagen has a wired "IR" input on the back that the RTI could conceivably use. That should be just as reliable as RS232, though perhaps less powerful since it's one-way. I'm not sure what RTI might want to do with it.

But I don't think it would hurt to swap the RS232 while doing a calibration.

I have my Lumagen RS232 connected to a terminal server (Linux ser2net) and my (custom) control system connects on demand. That way the port is free for Chromapure to use (via wifi!) when I run a calibration. But that wasn't exactly simple to set up, so I'm curious how everyone else does it. I suppose most use only IR for control.
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post #13 of 243 Old 11-08-2013, 05:21 PM
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post #14 of 243 Old 11-08-2013, 08:48 PM
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You also load the latest firmware via the RS232 null modem cable and firmware upgrades happen frequently. I just leave an Rs232 cable hooked up and plug into my computer via a converter and a USB port for cals and new firmware.o

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post #15 of 243 Old 11-09-2013, 06:56 AM
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I have my 2042 hooked up both via RS232 and IR. I also use an RTI system. I use RS232 for everyday use, calibration, and firmware updates. When the RS232 port is in use for cal, I use IR to control the Radiance. Although it's a little more difficult to initially set up, I greatly prefer RS232.
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post #16 of 243 Old 11-09-2013, 07:56 AM
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Good point about the software downloads, Mark.

Citation, why do you prefer the RS232 over the IR? I'd think that, both being hardwired in, they would be similar in reliability.
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post #17 of 243 Old 11-09-2013, 12:08 PM
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I will also join the Lumagen party soon... My 2041 is on it's way to Canada :-)

I also use a universal remote but I will use the IR for the remote control (as I did with my mini 3D) and keep the rs232 cable for the Chromapure calibration.

As you will discover Rich, the Lumagen + Chromapure is a easy and powerful combo for calibration.

Let us know you first impression when setup... I will too...
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post #18 of 243 Old 11-09-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Good point about the software downloads, Mark.

Citation, why do you prefer the RS232 over the IR? I'd think that, both being hardwired in, they would be similar in reliability.
RS232 is bulletproof in that it always has it's own dedicated port. IR is harder to control: it can be directed to its own port in the RTI system, but many times it's blasted to all ports simultaneously. I use RS232 on my most important components which are my Sim2 projector, my AV Receiver and my Radiance. Of course just my opinion.smile.gif
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post #19 of 243 Old 11-12-2013, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post

RS232 is bulletproof in that it always has it's own dedicated port. IR is harder to control: it can be directed to its own port in the RTI system, but many times it's blasted to all ports simultaneously. I use RS232 on my most important components which are my Sim2 projector, my AV Receiver and my Radiance. Of course just my opinion.smile.gif

+1 I have to agree.

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post #20 of 243 Old 11-12-2013, 01:44 PM
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I understand that the Lumagen processors can give options for masking/blanking an image. For instance, some people when watching a variable-AR movie like The Dark Knight, have the Lumagen apply a 2:35:1 masking bars, so they don't get any light overspill on their 2:35:1 screen set up.

I'm just wondering if this type of masking is customizable in size. I ask because occasionally I zoom my image out really wide, causing a little bit of overspill past my screen top and bottom. It would be nice to be able to have a pre-set that masks only the amount of image I want to be made black.

Can the 2041 Radiance do this?

Thanks.
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post #21 of 243 Old 11-12-2013, 02:28 PM
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Look at "Tech Tip 16 - Widescreen Without an anamorphic lens".
http://www.lumagen.com/docs/Tip0016_WidescreenWithoutAnamorphicLens_032712.pdf

This tech tip covers a simple setup for the Radiance, when a 16:9 image is zoomed out larger than a 2.35 projector screen.

You can email us or call us to discuss how to setup the Radiance for your situation.

Randy Freeman
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post #22 of 243 Old 11-12-2013, 04:47 PM
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Thank you Randy.

Though, I couldn't see anything in there that does exactly what I was thinking.

I'm talking about watching a 16:9 image on, say, a 2:0 shape screen (or something similar) and zooming to fit the width. Meaning that there would be some level of overspill above and below the screen, though not as much as 2:35:1. Hence I wouldn't want 2:35:1 shaped masking of the image by the Lumagen, but something custom shaped to cut off only the amount of light spill I'd be seeing in that case.
(And, of course, without doing any adjusting, shrinking, distortion of the image via scaling...I'm only talking about the masking feature).
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post #23 of 243 Old 11-12-2013, 05:30 PM
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The tech tip that I referenced will work but the shrink settings will be slightly different for a 2.0 screen.

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post #24 of 243 Old 11-13-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfpublic View Post

The tech tip that I referenced will work but the shrink settings will be slightly different for a 2.0 screen.

Randy Freeman

Ok, thanks again. But the reference to "shrink settings" is confusing me, since I don't want to shrink the image, but rather crop or mask it. I see a masking option in the manual, indicating 16 possible settings, so maybe I'll find what I want to do in there. (I can't get my Lumagen up and running until I have it's commands put into my remote control...which I need my installer to get around to doing...)
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In the "Tech Tip 16", one of the steps is to adjust the Radiance output "Shrink Setting" to "12%". For a 2.0 screen the shrink setting will be slightly less. You need to shrink the image slightly, to fit inside that part of the image that is projected on the 2.0 screen. Remember, part of the 16:9 projected image is spilling, off the screen, onto the wall.

We would be happy to work with you and give you instructions on how set up your Radiance for a 2.0 screen. The setup is easy and will only take you a few minutes.

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post #26 of 243 Old 11-13-2013, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfpublic View Post

In the "Tech Tip 16", one of the steps is to adjust the Radiance output "Shrink Setting" to "12%". For a 2.0 screen the shrink setting will be slightly less. You need to shrink the image slightly, to fit inside that part of the image that is projected on the 2.0 screen. Remember, part of the 16:9 projected image is spilling, off the screen, onto the wall.

I can understand why R Harkness keeps asking more questions. He doesn't have a Radiance yet and is trying to figure out if it will do what he wants to do. And you seem to misunderstand what he's trying to do, so his question still hasn't been answered.

He said twice that he doesn't want to scale, only crop/mask the top & bottom of the image. The question is: is the Radiance masking flexible enough to accommodate that, or can it only mask to 2.35:1?

I'll try it out when I get home tonight to see if I can answer his question. I don't remember the mask adjustments and the manual doesn't go into specifics.
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post #27 of 243 Old 11-14-2013, 12:47 AM
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^^^ My understanding is 2.35:1 is it, But I was also doing active area scanning for 2.35/2.40 content (1920x 817)
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post #28 of 243 Old 11-14-2013, 09:07 AM
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Randy: Thanks again for the offer to guide to what I'm trying to do (once I have my Lumagen set up).

But, also:

ScottJ, yes, you understand the issue I'm having here. Thanks for looking into it as well.

I just sort of expected a VP as powerful as the Lumagen would have the type of capability I am describing - user variable masking sizes. (As opposed to having to shrink/re-scale images).

On a separate feature note: Apparently you can move a 2:35:1 image up or down within the black bar area, using the Lumagen as well.
(Though I remember reading some consternation among those who tried it, saying that once you moved the 2:35:1 image for some reason there was a bug making the scaling worse, so a moved 2:35:1 image wasn't looking as good. Hopefully that bug was fixed).
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post #29 of 243 Old 11-14-2013, 10:42 AM
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I guess that I miss understood the question. The Radiance can be used to shrink the image to fit the screen, as detailed in Tech Tip 16, or you can just mask off the parts of the active image that spill over the edge of the screen.

We have both input and output masking. There are independent settings for the top, bottom, left and right sides of the image. You will probably just need to press a user memory and apply a bit of output masking.

The Radiance has four user memory buttons on the remote (MemA, MemB, MemC, MemD) which can be used to store and recall settings and calibrations. By default the Radiance uses "MemA". The memories are very easy to use. Just press one of the user memory buttons, make any adjustments or settings, and then do a "Save". To later recall the settings, you just press that user memory button.

Again we are here to help you setup and configure your Radiance.

Best
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post #30 of 243 Old 11-14-2013, 10:49 AM
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Sounds great.

For instance, when I use my Anamorphic lens I have to zoom out the image a bit larger than the masked screen frame, to get rid of some pin-cushioning at the outsides of the picture. While the over-zoomed picture edges are mostly soaked up by my black masking, on the brightest scenes sometimes I can see the image edges on my masking. So being able to blank out just the desired edges of the image would be helpful.
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