Best possible video quality from a DVD? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 11-21-2013, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
FusionITR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is the best possible quality from a dvd still using a DVD player with SDI output and processing it through a external scaler/video processor such as the dvdo vp50? As you can tell from the question, I am very old school and still remember when these processros were like $2000.

Now I can pick these up on ebay for ~$300. I still have a lot of older TV shows and such on DVD that will likely never arrive to blu ray. Is it worth the investment to pick up a SDI mod + scaler? If so, any recommendations?
FusionITR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 11-22-2013, 12:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Fudoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,336
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Used SDI players are very cheap, but so are DVD players which can output the native 480i signal through HDMI. SDI might have the edge if you're looking for a completely unaltered source signal, but in 99% of all cases HDMI is just as fine. The best stand alone DVD players were the ones with an ABT chipset built in for deinterlacing and upscaling. Still several functions and features were missing compared to stand alone processors.

If you already have a Blu-Ray player, there's a chance that it supports native output from DVDs through HDMI already, so you don't even need a new player.

This said, you'll be amazed how good a $300 video processor can look with SD material. Still leaps ahead of almost all current BD players. You might want to choose a DVDO Edge over a VP50 for it's added detail and edge enhancement controls. The Edge doesn't support SDI though.
Fudoh is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 11-22-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
FusionITR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Do Denon blu ray players support pure 480i over HDMI? If so, I'll just end up getting a denon blu ray player probably and a dvdo vp50 or edge depending on price.
FusionITR is offline  
post #4 of 15 Old 11-22-2013, 05:15 PM
Member
 
angle_theory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
How does something like an Oppo 103 / 103d up converting DVDs compare to a DVDO edge
angle_theory is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 12-23-2013, 02:59 PM
Newbie
 
jfpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by angle_theory View Post

How does something like an Oppo 103 / 103d up converting DVDs compare to a DVDO edge


would love to know how my Oppo 103 would compare to a Lumagen Radiance Mini-3D or DVDO edge

jfpro is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 12-23-2013, 08:15 PM
Senior Member
 
uderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fitchburg,MA
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Probably not so good. Oppo 103/105 uses mediatek soc for mpeg decoder/deinterlacer/scaling then qdeo for noise reduction and edge enhancement. Vnr even on lowest setting results loss of detail.
I own a 105 I am looking to run it through a VP in source direct mode. Source direct only applies to dvd/bd. Netflix/vudu etc.. are still scaled to 1080p.
uderman is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 12-24-2013, 08:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mattg3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ma
Posts: 3,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Oppo 83 plus Darbee Darblet.

Matt
mattg3 is online now  
post #8 of 15 Old 12-24-2013, 12:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfpro View Post


would love to know how my Oppo 103 would compare to a Lumagen Radiance Mini-3D or DVDO edge

Having compared my Oppo 93 against my Mini3D and also my JVC X35 for upscaling the order is X35>Oppo>Mini3D with the Mini3D being the best IMHO. I also add a Darbee after my Mini3D which can improve some DVDs but not all. At least the Oppo allows 'source direct' (one of the reasons I bought it) so it makes it easier to set up the Lumagen to do any upscaling/deinterlacing.

I previously owned a DVDO Edge which I also felt wasn't as good as the Mini3D for upscaling.

Having said that, I'm discussing upscaling DVDs (PAL FWIW) which are then displayed on a 112" wide screen, so the differences I noticed are probably less obvious on a 50" TV for example. Non of them make DVDs look as good as BluRay either (even the Mini3D) but they do make them good enough to watch when the BluRay version isn't available for some reason or my existing DVD collection.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 12-24-2013, 01:05 PM
Senior Member
 
uderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fitchburg,MA
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
if it is only for watching DVDs, Oppo dv-983h or bdp-83 would get my vote. These use ABT2010 chip for de-interlacing and scaling. All subsequent BD players from Oppo rely on mediatek SOC for de-interlacing and scaling. I don't particularly like ABT chips scaling but it is nevertheless above average.

SDI modded DVD players might be cheap if you find one but I don't see many listed on ebay. In fact none listed the past few months. JVB charges arm and a leg for SDI mod on a DVD player or BD player.

I have been using a Pioneer Elite DV-79AVI 480i (Component 4:2:2) over HDMI into Algolith Mosquito HDMI(noise reduction) then Crystalio II VPS-3800(de-interlacing/scaling). I will try Oppo BDP-105 into Crystalio II VPS-3300(have another one) and compare them. If Oppo/C2 combo comes close, I will let go Pioneer player.
uderman is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 01-11-2014, 07:18 AM
Newbie
 
matumba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Speaking of Crystalio II. I had had high expectations regarding this VP for watching 480i movies. But I have run into the rarely dicussed but known bug in this processor that makes it almost unuseable for me, that is its inability to keep the lock to 24p in 60Hz NTSC sources and the resulting heavy judder. Some people here reported that this problem had not been resolved even in the latest firmware versions.

I am wondering what is your feeling about this problem or whether anyone has found a workaround?

For a CRT display, my current plan is to try using a vp30/abt102 for de-interlacing (480i -> 480p) and then the CII 3300 for upscaling and feeding a CRT at 1080p96. A vp30 can be manually set to output a locked multiple of 24p (48 or 72) so hopefully the above mentioned lack of genlock in the CII would not be the problem.

As long as a display is not a CRT-based, for DVDs, I would now skip CII entirely and use a combination of OPPO-93 -> Algolith Flea -> Mini3D. I am not sure that I can see any difference in de-interlacing and/or scaling quality of the Mini vs OPPO for "perfect transfers", but what I can say for sure is that the Flea can do wonders for poor quality DVDs and in these cases upscaling naturally goes to the Mini since you must feed a Flea (or a Mosquito, if you have one) by a non-upscaled signal and upscale it afterwards. (Here again, de-interlacing can be done before a Flea, if one beleives that his player is superior to his VP for de-interlacing.)

Even for 1080p sources I find the Flea very useful as its 3D noise supression works *very* nicely in case of poor blu-ray transfers, so this little unit is really worth having anyway.
matumba is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 01-15-2014, 08:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
fmzip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bloomfield Connecticut
Posts: 665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I was wondering the same thing.

I was thinking of getting an Oppo BD-103 and considering selling my barely used Sony DVP-CX77ES SDI modded changer and rip all the DVDs to my network.

If anyone is looking for an single SDI DVD player, I also have an Panasonic RP-91.
fmzip is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 01-17-2014, 03:05 AM
Newbie
 
matumba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My OPPO-93 can play only ISO images of DVDs off the network or the USB drive. It would not recognize a directory tree as a DVD, as opposed to a bluray wich you can just copy to a hard drive and the OPPO would see the directory structure as a bluray disk.

However, I am not sure that playing back of ISO images of DVDs is possible for later versions of the player. I know for certain that the capability of playing back ISO images of bluray disks was cut at a certain version of OPPO-93 firmware, so I had to specifically order a player with an earlier firmware installed.
matumba is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 03-27-2014, 12:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
IanD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by matumba View Post

However, I am not sure that playing back of ISO images of DVDs is possible for later versions of the player. I know for certain that the capability of playing back ISO images of bluray disks was cut at a certain version of OPPO-93 firmware, so I had to specifically order a player with an earlier firmware installed.

The Oppo 93 has only ever been able to play ISOs of DVD and Bluray structure from attached media and only for firmware prior to 2012. Whilst it was allegedly possible to downgrade firmware for a short time with a pro mod kit, that capability was disabled.

The Oppo 83 is supposed to be slightly better for DVD upscaling and whilst it can play DVD at 24fps, this particular capability was improved in the Oppo 93 (only for >2011 firmware thus losing ISO capability) AFAIK.

I don't believe the Oppo 103 improves on DVD playback compared to the 93, but it drops Bluray structure playback completely and implements Cinavia (for Bluray discs at present).

Therefore, it is probably a toss-up over quality between the Oppo 83 and 93 for DVD playback, depending on which aspect is most important to you: upscaling quality or smooth 24fps playback.
IanD is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 04-23-2014, 07:25 PM
Senior Member
 
uderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fitchburg,MA
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I don't think 60hz to 24hz conversion works absolutely correct on any vp or player. Whenever there is bad edit or some weird cadence, there is dropped frames and judder. I scale 60hz to 60hz. 24hz to 72hz. Crystalio 2 can do 24hz to 48 or 72 hz correctly.

Where c2 shines is analog sources like laserdisc, vhs, etc.. nothing comes close to the analog processing of c2. I use c2(480p60) ->mosquito hdmi-> another c2(will replace with the new lumagen) 1080p60.
uderman is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 07-09-2014, 08:43 AM
Newbie
 
olakjen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Toshiba HD-XE1

the absolutte best pq quality on sd material that a have seen is Toshiba HD-XE1 output 480p
and use the lumagen xe to upscale

a have crystallio 3800 and oppo bdp-83 and this is not so good

ola kjenas
olakjen is offline  
Reply Video Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off