new Key scaler - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 03:39 PM
Member
 
frthomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by WT-46809
Why are most manufacturers, such as Key Digital, still including composite inputs on their high-end video processing equipment? It seems that the valuable input space could be better served by offering additional s-vid or (even better) component inputs. Folks that require composite connectivity, which I believe are becoming rare, could always opt for a composite to s-vid adapter. Is it that industrial video equipment used by broadcast companies still have a need for composite connectivity?
A high-end design might use cards (a la Meridian) and you could choose. But there are still a lot of devices around with only composite output (digital cameras, for example), or at least for which composite might be the simplest and easiest connection (special cable, etc..)

I would not buy a $5k+ video scaler that could not accept something as simple as composite. Lowest common denominator.

Fred
frthomas is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
jlm
AVS Special Member
 
jlm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: ny,ny,usa
Posts: 1,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
don't forget the "old" Leeza is sold out and to be put back in production, so if you want the Key product, you either buy a used Leeza or get the HD leeza, whether you need it for HD or not.

john
jlm is offline  
post #93 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 04:29 PM
 
James Bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chevy Chase, MD
Posts: 1,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i use the composite input on my scaler for the osd on my lexicon. don't care much about the quality.
James Bond is offline  
post #94 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 05:18 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Alan Gouger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
The upgrade path for people with existing Leezas will be discounted very
aggressive.
I dont think any other company will come close to offering the same upgrade deal. This is a first and the end user wins in this case.

At the end of the day your still left with your current scaler and you can sell it if you want for a good discount making someone else happy while recouping the money you just spent on the new scaler.

You end up with the new scaler (that costs more) for the cost you paid for the original Leeza. Not bad.

This will certainly buy KD many loyal customers not afraid to invest in their product. Also add the price/performance value and its a win win for everyone.
Alan Gouger is offline  
post #95 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 06:10 PM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The question is, how many of us Leeza owners will be selling our units all at the same time thereby making the price drop even further below what it should be. Lets be honest, if all of a sudden ten Leezas show up on the classifieds, the price will have to drop.

Of course this mean that the smart thing would be to sell the Leeza now, get the full fmv and wait four or five months without a scaler until the new one ships.

I guess the buyer would be someone who couldnt afford the Leeza originally or someone who doesnt care about HD either because its unavailabe in their city or in a foreign country which wont have HD for several years.

Hey Ofer, interested in buying a slightly used Leeza.
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #96 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 06:12 PM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Alan

For some reason, I got the feeling that the new HD Leeza would be cheaper (retail) then the current Leeza. I got that impression from what Michael said, but I could be wrong. Nothing specific, but I would guess that the HD scaling should add cost to the scaler.

Any thoughts?
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #97 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 06:31 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Alan Gouger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I have no idea what cost will be.

Also I think if you sell your Leeza you may not qualify for the upgrade
program.
Alan Gouger is offline  
post #98 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 06:39 PM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Alan,

First of all, how would KD know if you sold it or not, and secondly, once you get the new scaler, you could alway sell it as per your posting.

Quote:
At the end of the day your still left with your current scaler and you can sell it if you want for a good discount making someone else happy while recouping the money you just spent on the new scaler.

You end up with the new scaler (that costs more) for the cost you paid for the original Leeza. Not bad
Am I missing something?
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #99 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 06:56 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Alan Gouger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Cant answer but Im sure thay have thought about about this and will cover themselfs.
Alan Gouger is offline  
post #100 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 08:54 PM
 
James Bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chevy Chase, MD
Posts: 1,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Humey
Alan

For some reason, I got the feeling that the new HD Leeza would be cheaper (retail) then the current Leeza. I got that impression from what Michael said, but I could be wrong. Nothing specific, but I would guess that the HD scaling should add cost to the scaler.

Any thoughts?
this is what i got out of this thread as well as discussions with other knowledgeable people. i was also assuming that production costs have come down since they switched to a non-pc based product. hence my numbers. i came up with the ballpark of 3k from the dealer price minus kd's profit. i figure it at no higher than 3k.ballpark their cost. just speculation. again, unless i'm pretty far off on the numbers, it doesn't look like a great deal for leeza owners. i imagine most of them have only owned them 1-6 months. this is not a leeza or kd bash, just a discussion of the topic. i like kd and have demoed the leeza and like it.

alan, how much do you expect an out of production electronic product will be worth? i think half retail is generous. if the new leeza will be more than 6k, how could kd offer it for 3k or less? how could you recoup your purchase price? i suspect when the new rock and leeza come out current rocks and leezas will be worth 2-3k at best. just pure speculation on my part. does anyone know if the pq on the hd leeza is going to be better than the old one. i thought it was. and of course phil says the new rock will be much better. this could really sting for someone who just bought these products. that's my point.
James Bond is offline  
post #101 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 10:02 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Michael Grant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Not long after I bought my 2000 Subaru Outback I found out that the some of the 2001 models would be available with a 3.0-liter V6 and a McIntosh sound system.

Of course, until that day I had been a happy man. Once this news came to light, I could never drive that car with satisfaction again. :-(

Thankfully, car manufacturers are as generous as many of my fellow forum members believe Key Digital should be. So, I headed over to my local Subaru dealer, and said, "Hey man, I didn't know your new model would be better than the one I got a couple months ago. And the price isn't any different, either. So, I'll give you my 2000 car, and in return you should give me a 2001.

They gladly accepted my offer. Of course, they lost money on me because my 2000 couldn't fetch the same amount as my spankin' new 2001, even though I took good care of it. But hey, that's just the cost of improving their product, and they know it.

On that day, everything was right in the world...

Michael
Michael Grant is offline  
post #102 of 271 Old 07-02-2002, 10:39 PM
 
ericbee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,439
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Figured it was about time I jumped in this thread.

Every next generation of product is supposed to outperform the previous generation it replaced, not always the case but, more often than not.

The HD Leeza will be hardware based not software based so lots of things will be different. KD also has an entirely new GUI so on screen menus and navigation will be much improved. Mike has said to me many times that the majority of his time is spent helping Leeza owners in connecting and setting up their units. He would very much like that to change.

The owners manual will be much more clear as will the rear panel. It has far fewer connections and no audio switching capabilities. Personally, I only knew of 1 person using the audio switching out of about 20 owners so, I am happy the extra 30 BNC connectors are finally gone.

What no one seems to mention is the fact that the video deinterlacing algorithym will be very much improved over the original clearmatrix. This IS the reason to upgrade! A smaller chassis, high tech faceplate and discrete IR codes are only the icing on the cake. The new unit will be silent and have NO FANS!

This is really an HT enthusiasts company. They listen to our needs and requests and do what they can to satisfy the consumer. If the algorithm can outperform Faroudja, they will put them out of business. However, coming up with an algorithym that can actually do it, is another story..
ericbee is offline  
post #103 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 12:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
Rice Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Central CA
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Why even speculate on the price of the new unit when there has been no announcement by KD in that respect? Whether it turns out to be a "great" deal or not is going to be strictly personal anyway. Arguing and speculating about the price, when KD themselves have admitted that they haven't nailed down their cost is pointless. It typically does nothing more than polarize people/owners and create unrealistic expectations.

Instead, let's reward KD for actively participating and soliciting feedback here at AVS. I think the thread was doing well until it got off-track with the "2 for 1" thing started. Remember, as Ofer said, no one is forcing anyone to upgrade--if you are happy with the Leeza, it doesn't matter whether it's one week old, or one year old. OTOH, KD is offering a reasonable upgrade path (seemingly) for those who want the latest and greatest--that should be commended.

Here's a good example of a company doing something right, and then getting s*** for something it may (or may not) do in the future! Anyone see Minority Report?

I have a suggestion that maybe KD would consider for those who really want to upgrade but do not want to end up with two scalers. Immitate Lexicon's upgrade program--apply a certain heavy discount for the older unit in-trade towards the price of the new one. Then their dealers can re-sell the trade-ins at a discounted price. Of course, the trade-ins have to be in excellent/good cosmetic and operating condition. Also, should be for a limited time only, and possibly only for the original owner. It's a win-win for everybody that I can tell; except for the nightmare of keeping track of serial numbers and the paperwork involved to prevent multiple uses. As a last resort, a dealer could easily implement this for their own Leeza customers.

Danny: Do you have a Leeza right now? Is it not performing to your expectations (maybe we can help)? Would it explain the consternation you have with what the upgrade price is going to be?
Rice Rocket is offline  
post #104 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 03:58 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
oferlaor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Modiin, Israel
Posts: 8,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Humey,

I was considering getting the new unit. Lets see what pricing is like & then we can talk :)

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
www.hometheater.co.il
oferlaor is offline  
post #105 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 05:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mburnstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Bloomfield Twp., MI
Posts: 1,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't see the advantage of altering the 1080i or 720p HDTV signal by the HD Leeza and outputting the signal at the panel's native rate when the panel will scale the HDTV to the native rate anyway. Am I missing something?
Thanks.

mark

Top Home Theater's I hope to see: The Bland's
Art's and my buddy Steve Bruzonsky! And Oneobgyn if I ever make it to NorCal!
mburnstein is offline  
post #106 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
jlm
AVS Special Member
 
jlm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: ny,ny,usa
Posts: 1,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
its the quality of the de-interlacing that will tell, in my opinion. i see a bit of shimmer on slow pans with HD 1080i, converted by my plas.

john
jlm is offline  
post #107 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 06:33 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
oferlaor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Modiin, Israel
Posts: 8,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mark,

You haven't been following the whole native rate debate, have you?

The whole idea of scalers is that the current crop of plasmas and other devices are not capable of scaling SD and HD signals to the native rate while providing the best possible image quality.

In order to do that, the internal scaler will need to deinterlace and then scale. Most internal scalers don't do a very good job in scaling SD, how do you think they will deinterlace HD (particularly 1080i with cadence encoding)?

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
www.hometheater.co.il
oferlaor is offline  
post #108 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 06:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mburnstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Bloomfield Twp., MI
Posts: 1,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi ofer,
I didn't realise that 1080i deinterlacing was a weak link with plasmas. But after deinterlacing occurs in the Key unit which is better than the panels deinterlacing ability, will the scaling to native rate by the Leeza to native rate be any different in quality than the panel scaling to native rate?
Thanks.

mark

Top Home Theater's I hope to see: The Bland's
Art's and my buddy Steve Bruzonsky! And Oneobgyn if I ever make it to NorCal!
mburnstein is offline  
post #109 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 07:04 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
oferlaor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Modiin, Israel
Posts: 8,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mark,

That's the theory. Experience shows that even a good progressive source, run through a good external scaler that will upscale AND downscale to native rate (preferably through DVI, so there's no analog generational loss) will yield a better picture. Beyond that, any interlaced image can benefit from a good deinterlacer.

There's still not enough information regarding the internal deinterlacers for plasmas (and other devices) when it comes to 1080i deinterlacing.

Obviously, when you scale up, getting high quality video is quite difficult.

When you scale down, it's much easier to produce a nicer image (since you're sampling less than the original source signal). However, there should still be a noticeable improvement in image quality.

As devices improve (e.g., the next generation of plasmas no longer uses 853:480, but a higher resolution picture), there will be more and more need for better quality signals and HD scalers come to the rescue.

I hope all is clear.

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
www.hometheater.co.il
oferlaor is offline  
post #110 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 08:59 AM
Member
 
randmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by ericbee
... Personally, I only knew of 1 person using the audio switching out of about 20 owners so, I am happy the extra 30 BNC connectors are finally gone...
I choose Leeza over others for the digital audio switching (don't use the analog). All my electronics are located in another room which, before Leeza, made matching audio and video difficult sometimes. Now what I see is what I hear!

Losing this valuable capability with Leeza HD will make the upgrade decision a difficult one for me. Will I need their new switcher and Leeza HD to keep the functionality to which I've grown accustom?
randmac is offline  
post #111 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 11:08 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
oferlaor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Modiin, Israel
Posts: 8,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Randy,

Pretty much. If you choose to move to LEEZA HD, you'll need their switcher as well. I don't understand why your A/V equipment can't do the audio switching for you - how many digital audio sources do you have?

Do you plan on doing HD soon (or do you already have it)?

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
www.hometheater.co.il
oferlaor is offline  
post #112 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 04:37 PM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Rice Rocket

My Leeza is working perfectly and I have nothing but good things to say about it. I was just trying to understand the 2 for 1 issue. Whatever the price will be, I am sure it will be generous to us Leeza owners. My only concern was with the 2 for 1 comment. I dont understand how you can have 2 for 1 unless you sell the more expensive unit and even then I dont understand the comment. I was questioning the mathametics of the comment and not the comment itself.


If you pay $6 for #A and $3 for #B then the average price is 4.5 for each.
The only way for 2 for 1 to work would be to buy the new Leeza for zero dollars.

I wasnt attacking KD for this offer, far from it, I think they are doing a great and generous offer and they should be complimented for it. I cant image any other scaler company doing anything like this.

I know they listen to us as and respect the requirements we need to have a topnotch home theater . Hell, they are going to try to incorporate two of my suggestion on the scaler. How can I not buy something when they they responding to my requests


Lastly, I use a Dila and live in Los Angeles and I could benefit form using the HD scaler. As we speak I just installed today the third LNB for my Sat and now receive HD Showtime and also added a antenna on my roof so now I will get network HD.

Of course, one always wants the newest thing out there.

Ofer,

I was kidding about wanting to sell you my Leeza. But then again, my father in law will be visiting me this september, so he could have a nice gift for you when he goes back to Haifa
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #113 of 271 Old 07-03-2002, 11:52 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
oferlaor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Modiin, Israel
Posts: 8,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Humey,

I think we can all agree it's not a 2 for 1 deal (I guess a slip of the tongue), but more like a 2 for one point something...

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
www.hometheater.co.il
oferlaor is offline  
post #114 of 271 Old 07-04-2002, 10:24 AM
Member
 
Technut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Humey

I get your point (and agree in principal), but your math formula is not above reproach. :D Let's assume the New HD Leeza retails for $9k (I hope not, but it's just an example) and the old Leeza was around $6k (if memory serves me well, again it doesn't really matter, it's just an example). If KD sells you the New HD Leeza for $3k, you now have 2 scalers for the price of 1! We can only wish. If that happens, you can sell your Leeza to Ofer for $3k and now you have a 1 scaler for the the price of .667! ;)

Anyway, the real reason for the post is: can I come down from Santa Barbara to watch football at your house? I'll bring the refreshments.

Wishing Everyone a Happy 4th!

Robert aka Technut
Technut is offline  
post #115 of 271 Old 07-04-2002, 11:18 AM
Member
 
randmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by oferlaor
Randy,

Pretty much. If you choose to move to LEEZA HD, you'll need their switcher as well. I don't understand why your A/V equipment can't do the audio switching for you - how many digital audio sources do you have?

Do you plan on doing HD soon (or do you already have it)?
I count 6 digital audio sources, and my Parasound AVC2500 has no problem handling all of them. It just doesn't seem logical to send audio to one switcher (AVC2500) and video to a different device(Leeza). A system should have one switcher where audio and video stay together. I think Leeza is the first scaler/switcher to get it right. It is a sweat feature and I'm surprised most Leeza owner do not use it.

I've had HD for a long time and watch mostly HD, 70% of the time.

I'll have to study up on the new KD switcher to see if it allows me to move forward in scaler technology without going backwards in switcher technology.
randmac is offline  
post #116 of 271 Old 07-04-2002, 01:29 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
oferlaor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Modiin, Israel
Posts: 8,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey Randy,

It's kind of funny, it doesn't seem logical that one processor does audio processing and another does video. I guess you'll have to wait until someone gets it right and integrates them both...

Seriously, audio switching is done through A/V receiver, and video should be done on a scaler. That's how all the processors worked except for LEEZA.

LEEZA did get that right, but at what cost? As Michael said, most of his support was having to explain to users how to hook it all up. It seems much more logical to separate the two functions - audio and video and make things that much less complex.

If you need more switching, as you said, you can use KeyDigital's matrix switcher (That'll still give you A/V switching). I think Extron and Kramer also have something. However, why add more switching and not use the A/V receiver instead (that's why God & Philips invented the pronto macros...).

What are your audio sources? 6 seem over the top!

Technut,

Keep in mind that the new HD LEEZA doesn't require:
* license fees to *you know who*
* license fees to Microsoft
* a video display card
* an expensive chassis (big) & quiet air supply.
* an expensive PC motherboard.
* The A/V matrix switcher.

So, the costs to KeyDigital should be much less than the original LEEZA. I definitely wouldn't expect pricing to be higher than LEEZA - but probably lower. KeyDigital seems intent on capturing the HD market (just as Focus Enhancements seems intent on capturing the SD market).

I suspect KeyDigital will market their unit quite aggressively and will have a competitive price.

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
www.hometheater.co.il
oferlaor is offline  
post #117 of 271 Old 07-04-2002, 02:45 PM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
I get your point (and agree in principal), but your math formula is not above reproach. Let's assume the New HD Leeza retails for $9k (I hope not, but it's just an example) and the old Leeza was around $6k (if memory serves me well, again it doesn't really matter, it's just an example). If KD sells you the New HD Leeza for $3k, you now have 2 scalers for the price of 1! We can only wish. If that happens, you can sell your Leeza to Ofer for $3k and now you have a 1 scaler for the the price of .667!

Anyway, the real reason for the post is: can I come down from Santa Barbara to watch football at your house? I'll bring the refreshments.

Wishing Everyone a Happy 4th!

Robert aka Technut

Robert, you are absolutely right, I never thought about it that way. Its sort of like people seeing something half full or half empty. Your scenario makes the most sense. However, I hope that the retail price of the new Leeza will equal or be less then the current Leeza so your scenario wont work. In anycase, I think your win the Avscience Mathametics prize

Your prize will be the new Dila 1920 x1080 at no cost. However, shipping and handling will cost you $250,000
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #118 of 271 Old 07-04-2002, 02:47 PM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Technut

Your welcome to watch football at my house, but to be honest, I cannot tolerate watching ntsc from my sat dish. It really looks like crap. On the other hand HD and dvds look very very nice.
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #119 of 271 Old 07-05-2002, 03:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
WT-46809's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 999
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
From the info I was able to get from FE's CS-1 manual and the AVS posts regarding the upcoming HD LEEZA, it appears that the following info reflects some of the major differences between the two units. Please let me know where I am way off base with regards to the differences and/or incorrect info. Because I am assuming that the HD LEEZA will be priced higher than the CS-1 (possibly more than twice as much!) when it finally hits the streets, I am trying to get a handle on what this difference in price will represent.

As far as I can tell, the difference in price will basically represent HD scaling, HDCP and SDI. So are these additional capabilities worth an additional $2,000+ over the price of the CS-1 (assuming the HD LEEZA shakes out to about $3,500+)? It almost seems that the CS-1 is the de facto fly in the ointment; if not for the CS-1, the HD LEEZA would probably seem like a steal when compared to the first LEEZA, the FNRS, ***, etc.


[CS-1, HD LEEZA]:

INPUTS:
Composite [2, 2]
SVid [2, 2]
Component [2, 2]
RGBHV [0, 1]
DVI [1, 1]
SDI [0, 1]
VGA/HDTV (Pass) [yes, n/a?]
480i [yes, yes]
480p [yes, yes]
540p [no, yes]
720p [no, yes]
1080i [no, yes]

OUTPUTS:
Component [1, 1]
DVI [1, 1]
SDI [0, 1]
Number of Pre-Programed Resolutions [16, 17]
Custom Resolution Capability [yes, ???]
480p [yes, yes]
540p [yes, ???]
720p [yes, yes]
1080i [yes, yes]
1080p [yes, yes]

OUTPUT CONTROL:
Contrast [yes, ???]
Brightness [yes, ???]
Saturation [yes, ???]
Hue [yes, ???]
Sharpness [yes, ???]
4:3 Standard [yes, ???]
4:3 Letter Box [yes, ???]
16:9 Widescreen [yes, ???]
16:9 Letterbox [yes, ???]
Picture Sizing [yes, ???]
Picture Positioning [yes, ???]

OTHER:
Chipset [???, ???]
Performance Rating [???, ???]
Refresh Rates: 60, 72, 75 [yes, yes]
Refresh Rates: 48, 50 [no, yes]
Edit / Rename Capabilities [yes, ???]
Test Patterns [no, no]
HDCP Enabled [no (CS-2), yes]
Audio Switching [no, no]
Upgradable [yes, yes]
Screen Trigger [yes, no]
OSD [yes, yes]
Split Screen [yes, ???]
RS-232 Control [yes, ???]
Warranty [2 years, ???]

STREET PRICE: [$1,480, ???]
WT-46809 is offline  
post #120 of 271 Old 07-05-2002, 02:37 PM
 
James Bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chevy Chase, MD
Posts: 1,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Technut
Humey

I get your point (and agree in principal), but your math formula is not above reproach. :D Let's assume the New HD Leeza retails for $9k (I hope not, but it's just an example) and the old Leeza was around $6k (if memory serves me well, again it doesn't really matter, it's just an example). If KD sells you the New HD Leeza for $3k, you now have 2 scalers for the price of 1! We can only wish. If that happens, you can sell your Leeza to Ofer for $3k and now you have a 1 scaler for the the price of .667! ;)

Anyway, the real reason for the post is: can I come down from Santa Barbara to watch football at your house? I'll bring the refreshments.

Wishing Everyone a Happy 4th!

Robert aka Technut
his math (which was originally my math) is much better than yours. Kd says they are selling the new hd leeza at their cost to previous owners of leeza's. i would bet you 3k that if their cost was 3k, they wouldn't be retailing it for 9k. And, if they are retailing it for 9k, you can bet humey isn't getting one for 3k. i still think my numbers are pretty close. if anything i would downgrade to 2k their cost, 3.5k retail.
James Bond is offline  
Closed Thread Video Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off