Lumagen New Radiance 21xx Video Processors - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 89 Old 04-17-2014, 04:28 AM - Thread Starter
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The Lumagen® Radiance™ Video Processor Family Adds New Members

April 16th, 2014 — Lumagen®, Inc., a specialist in the design and manufacture of products for the home and corporate theater markets, today announced four new members of its Radiance™ video processor family.

These are the Radiance 2123™, the Radiance 2124™, the Radiance 2143™ and the Radiance 2144™.

Jim Peterson, Lumagen’s president, stated, “our customers were asking for more HDMI inputs, and the ability to scale source material up to 4k60.

All four of these new products increase the HDMI input count to eight, and two can scale SD and HD source material up to 4k60.

This maximizes video performance by taking advantage of Lumagen’s proprietary NoRing™ scaling to scale film source to 4k24 and video to 4k60.

Supporting all the features of the Radiance 20XX series, including Darbee DVP™ processing, the new Radiance 21XX series answers our customer’s challenge.”

The Radiance 2123 and 2124 support input and output rates of up to 1080p60.

The 2143 and 2144 increase the output rate to up to 4k60 in 8-bit 4:2:0 format.

The Radiance 2123, and Radiance 2143, support eight HDMI inputs, two HDMI outputs, a wired-IR command input, an RS232 command input, plus an internal USB-to-serial adapter.

They are housed in a 1U rack mountable case.

The Radiance 2124, and Radiance 2144, add two component inputs, two composite inputs with 3D comb filter, two analog stereo inputs, one optical audio input, and three COAX audio inputs, plus a COAX audio output.

With its extensive processing, setup, and calibration, feature-set the Radiance family is perfectly suited for refining and enhancing the images presented by front projectors, and top-level flat-panel displays. With the introduction of these new products, the Radiance family continues as the video backbone for the best home theaters and media rooms.

The Radiance 2123 and 2143 are available immediately, and the Radiance 2124 and Radiance 2144 will be available in May.

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post #2 of 89 Old 04-17-2014, 05:45 AM
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I will have to try a 2143. smile.gif

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post #3 of 89 Old 04-17-2014, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Suggested retail pricing for the Radiance 21xx:

Lumagen Radiance 2123 is set at $3095

Lumagen Radiance 2124 is set at $3595

Lumagen Radiance 2143 is set at $3995

Lumagen Radiance 2144 is set at $4495

Optional rack-ears for mounting in a 19” rack are available at a suggested retail price of $50.

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post #4 of 89 Old 04-17-2014, 10:12 AM
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Am I right in assuming from the above that the 2143 and 2144 models also can output 1080p? I currently have a Radiance XS and may upgrade to one of the new models (to gain the autoaspect and Darbee now) a month or so before I get a new 4K display, so being able to output 1080p for a few weeks would be helpful.

Does a table or grid exist that puts all the Radiance models and their features in a easy-to-read format? I like when I scan something that easily tells me what models have what features and which ones don't.
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post #5 of 89 Old 04-17-2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryWaz View Post

Am I right in assuming from the above that the 2143 and 2144 models also can output 1080p? I currently have a Radiance XS and may upgrade to one of the new models (to gain the autoaspect and Darbee now) a month or so before I get a new 4K display, so being able to output 1080p for a few weeks would be helpful.

Does a table or grid exist that puts all the Radiance models and their features in a easy-to-read format? I like when I scan something that easily tells me what models have what features and which ones don't.

Yes, they can still output 1080p.
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post #6 of 89 Old 04-17-2014, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryWaz View Post

Am I right in assuming from the above that the 2143 and 2144 models also can output 1080p? I currently have a Radiance XS and may upgrade to one of the new models (to gain the autoaspect and Darbee now) a month or so before I get a new 4K display, so being able to output 1080p for a few weeks would be helpful.

Does a table or grid exist that puts all the Radiance models and their features in a easy-to-read format? I like when I scan something that easily tells me what models have what features and which ones don't.
Good idea about the table

Basically though all lumagen radiance models share same output capabilities up to 1080P60

the 2041 and 2042 add ability to output 4K or UltraHD at 24/25 and 30Hz

2143 and 2144 further add 4K or UHD at 50 and 60Hz, 4:2:0 component video format

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post #7 of 89 Old 04-17-2014, 10:27 AM
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Thank you, Gordon and kaotikr1. smile.gif

Like what I'm hearing. Hope the Lumagen website gets updated soon with the new info and some pix. Would like to be able see the back of the 2143 ad 2144.

I was planning on upgrading to the 2042 sometime soon but something kept telling me to wait. Glad I did. smile.gif
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post #8 of 89 Old 04-17-2014, 11:40 AM
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Am I missing something, will these let you input 4k sources?

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post #9 of 89 Old 04-18-2014, 08:00 AM
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I'm definitely interested in the 2143, I require the extra hdmi inputs so here's hoping that I'm able to trade my 2041 ( again that's depending on price too )

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post #10 of 89 Old 04-18-2014, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Am I missing something, will these let you input 4k sources?
Hello

No.This is stated in the first post of this thread.

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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



The Radiance 2123 and 2124 support input and output rates of up to 1080p60.

The 2143 and 2144 increase the output rate to up to 4k60 in 8-bit 4:2:0 format.
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post #11 of 89 Old 04-18-2014, 09:30 AM
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Will 4k inputs be possible via firmware, or is this yet another stop gap doorstop product? Sony will be introducing a 4k media player this summer. I'd expect more 4k devices in short order, despite the lack of actual source.

Steve Schaffer
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post #12 of 89 Old 04-18-2014, 10:00 AM
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No there will be no 4K input by firmware. The first 4K in and out device from lumagen will be the super scaler they have said they are working on, estimate for it to be out sometime between end of summer and xmas in beta. Even that depends on the availability of actual HDMI2.0 HDCP2.2 silicon being available....

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post #13 of 89 Old 04-19-2014, 06:14 AM
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Thanks for the info. Guess I'll stick with my XS till more of the dust settles -- end to end with source suppliers out to projectors.

Steve Schaffer
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post #14 of 89 Old 04-21-2014, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praz View Post

Hello

No.This is stated in the first post of this thread.

Thanks, it seemed vague on the 2143 and 2144 regarding input capability, and it shouldn't have seemed that way. I think my brain refused to believe I'm still dealing with newly released stop-gap products after having a 4K projector for 2 years. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

Matt
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post #15 of 89 Old 04-22-2014, 02:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Radiance 21XX Series Video Processors

Radiance processing power, 17x17x17* (4913 point) CMS, Darbee DVP and optional 4K@60* output

*available soon via downloadable update, currently 9x9x9 and 4k24

For more details look here.

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post #16 of 89 Old 04-23-2014, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Lumagen Radiance 21XX Series (2123, 2124, 2143, 2144) New 041514 Firmware Update

Release Notes

Bugfix for HDMI inputs 5-8 sometimes not showing video.

Download Link

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post #17 of 89 Old 04-23-2014, 06:31 PM
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Any of these have PIP/POP? We use that on our XE3D. SJ
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post #18 of 89 Old 04-24-2014, 01:08 AM
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no they don't

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post #19 of 89 Old 04-25-2014, 08:20 PM
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1-Will 4913 point cms be available to 20xx units?

2-does auto aspect work on none-anamorphic/ letterboxed sd sources like dvd, laserdisc, vhs etc..?

3- how about letterboxed sd movies which the video frame is lifted up for subtitles? Does it know where to zoom in?
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post #20 of 89 Old 04-25-2014, 11:28 PM
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uderman:

1) No, The 20XX FPGA is not large enough.
2) Yes. Note: more auto aspect improvements will happen in a future release.
3) image based auto aspect ignores subtitles. Sometimes you can set the players to move the subtitles within the active image so you could still see them.

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post #21 of 89 Old 04-26-2014, 03:56 PM
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With 3D LUTS becoming more and more popular these days, it would be nice to see Lumagen design a 2.0 4K compliant device that is only a 3d LUT storage device that can handle larger cube sizes without any processing. A built in reference pattern generator would also be a benefit...
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post #22 of 89 Old 04-27-2014, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Lumagen Radiance 21XX Series (2123, 2124, 2143, 2144) New 041714 Firmware Update

Release Notes

Fix for issue of acquiring input video incorrectly. Menu correction for incorrectly displaying SPDIF options for 2123/2143.

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post #23 of 89 Old 04-27-2014, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Lumagen Radiance 21XX Series (2123, 2124, 2143, 2144) New 041814 Firmware Update

Release Notes

Bugfix for output setup menus not allowing certain input modes for inputs 5-8.

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post #24 of 89 Old 04-28-2014, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Thanks, it seemed vague on the 2143 and 2144 regarding input capability, and it shouldn't have seemed that way. I think my brain refused to believe I'm still dealing with newly released stop-gap products after having a 4K projector for 2 years. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

Every single UHD product is "stop gap" as of yet since there is no standard. If REC2020 becomes the UHD standard, not a single current UHD product will comply with it in terms of per-color bit-depth or gamut. Sure, you have a projector with 4K resolution, but it's hardly UHD future-proof. In the meantime, a lot of companies - including Lumagen - are releasing products that are doing a great job of bridging the HD and UHD world. The 17^3 CMS alone is a pretty sweet feature not available anywhere else in the consumer world.

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post #25 of 89 Old 04-29-2014, 11:59 AM
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Sure, you have a projector with 4K resolution, but it's hardly UHD future-proof.

I'm not naive enough to think that I bought a future-proof machine. But I will say it is HDMI 2.0 compliant and HDCP 2.2 compliant after update--and if HDMI 2.0 had been what it should have been, I was very close to having as close to future-proof as I could have imagined.

What gets me is the standard is out, the chips will be available at some point, but new products are still being released with the chips right around the corner...that's fine for many, and if I didn't already have a great 1080p Lumagen I may be excited--but all I see now is fragmented strategy that seems to guarantee that the boxes that come out with the new chips are going to be priced higher than they otherwise would be if we skipped all this semi-UHD stuff.

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post #26 of 89 Old 04-29-2014, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by turls View Post

I'm not naive enough to think that I bought a future-proof machine. But I will say it is HDMI 2.0 compliant and HDCP 2.2 compliant after update--and if HDMI 2.0 had been what it should have been, I was very close to having as close to future-proof as I could have imagined.

What gets me is the standard is out, the chips will be available at some point, but new products are still being released with the chips right around the corner...that's fine for many, and if I didn't already have a great 1080p Lumagen I may be excited--but all I see now is fragmented strategy that seems to guarantee that the boxes that come out with the new chips are going to be priced higher than they otherwise would be if we skipped all this semi-UHD stuff.

But that's my point - the UHD spec has NOT been finalized, and there's no final optical UHD spec. Yes, there's a 4K cinema spec, but to that is not related to consumer UHD (for which Rec.2020 is the frontrunner.) The gamut for Rec.2020 covers over 75% of the CIE 1931 colorspace; even DCI only covers 53%, and Rec.709 - which is used for current consumer "4K" streamed material - covers a mere 36%. The Rec.2020 colorspace is so large that a minimum of 11 bits/color is recommended to prevent banding. These differences are anything but subtle, and the fact that most consumer displays can't even achieve DCI colorspace (which covers only 70% of Rec.2020) means that any current display will be woefully undersaturated. HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 does nothing for these colorspace or bit depth problems.

I can understand the desire to have UHD inputs on a video processor if you own a UHD display, but given the complexities of designing an end-to-end UHD video processor, the almost complete lack of native consumer UHD material and the lack of a UHD standard, I don't see why Lumagen would want to release a fully-UHD processor right now.

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post #27 of 89 Old 04-30-2014, 05:15 AM
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I can understand the desire to have UHD inputs on a video processor if you own a UHD display, but given the complexities of designing an end-to-end UHD video processor, the almost complete lack of native consumer UHD material and the lack of a UHD standard, I don't see why Lumagen would want to release a fully-UHD processor right now.

Informed speculation is that Lumagen will have a true 4k in and out vp by year end. Reason , at least in my case, is because customers want it. My Radiance XD will be 7 in August.
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post #28 of 89 Old 04-30-2014, 06:59 AM
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Informed speculation is that Lumagen will have a true 4k in and out vp by year end. Reason , at least in my case, is because customers want it. My Radiance XD will be 7 in August.

Yes, I've read the same. That timing seems to coincide with the speculation on the finalization/release of UHD BD. It seems that finalizing the UHD spec and developing source material and video processors will be the easy part - the hard part will be creating displays that can properly reproduce it. Increasing the saturation of primaries by over a factor a 2x as compared to Rec.709 will be no small feat as it will require significantly more "pure"/saturated primaries, which will drastically reduce the usable output of current projector lamps. Of course, laser light sources may potentially solve this problem, and I think everyone would love to see lasers replace lamps. Implementing the new spec in flat panel displays will be another feat entirely - the only flat panels currently capable of reproducing the DCI colorspace (which only covers 70% of Rec.2020) are in the $30K range IIRC.

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post #29 of 89 Old 04-30-2014, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

the only flat panels currently capable of reproducing the DCI colorspace (which only covers 70% of Rec.2020) are in the $30K range IIRC.

Keep in mind, those are "broadcast grade" monitors, and even Rec709 broadcast-grade monitors are very expensive. It's not the wider colorspace that makes these so expensive, but the small market.
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post #30 of 89 Old 04-30-2014, 09:22 AM
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Keep in mind, those are "broadcast grade" monitors, and even Rec709 broadcast-grade monitors are very expensive. It's not the wider colorspace that makes these so expensive, but the small market.

Absolutely - I didn't mean to conflate that kind of pricing with wider colorspace, only point out that currently the closest thing out there - a 70% solution - to covering Rec.2020 is a very expensive monitor. I have no doubt that manufacturers would be able to produce displays with Rec.2020-compliant gamuts at lower price points, but they will certainly carry a premium for a while.

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