Edge Blenders Unite !!!!!!! Tell Lumagen we want it!! - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Should Lumagen add Edge Blending to their new VP?
Yes I would buy it if it has this feature added!!! 5 71.43%
Yes it be nice if was added but I would still buy it it with out. 1 14.29%
They should Just add some feature for edge blending to aid third party edge blend units 0 0%
They should make a separate edge blend unit. 1 14.29%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 12 Old 02-19-2015, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Edge Blenders Unite !!!!!!! Tell Lumagen we want it!!

Since May of 2007 I have been wishing for Lumagen to add an edge blend feature to one of their products. But 3D came along and that took up all the space on the Radiance
FPGA and stole my thunder. There was a time we had a good number of people that wanted this feature but now I assume it is down.

But it still can be done if we get the message to lumagen. I vision not only home theater enthusiasts to benefit from this but also commercial
customers who need very large screens and strange aspect ratios or set ups for trade shows conferences, churches , schools etc.


So send Lumagen Support an e-mail and ask if they would think about adding edge blending to their new unit or at least add some features that
would help those who use alternate equipment for blend processing achieve a perfect seamless blend zone.


support@lumagen.com

Some of the features for those who already edge blend but what their edge blenders lack is the ability to adjust the gamma, greyscale and CMS in the Blend zone at certain
% whites and Colors. A 21 point separate blend zone calibration for each output of the blending PJ would be ideal if the entire Edge blend feature is not added.

The blend zone adjustment pixel size could be user defined and adjustable to match the current edge blend VP's blend zone size that is used.


So Edge blenders Unite and even if you don't want it for yourself but would like to see others tackle the challenge ask lumagen to add this for those of us
who are more adventurous


Thanks you


Athanasios
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post #2 of 12 Old 02-20-2015, 06:22 AM
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What is edge blend?
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post #3 of 12 Old 02-20-2015, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post
What is edge blend?
It using two PJ's to make one large image. Each PJ displays a portion of the image. This allows the use of less badwidth for older CRT PJ's and uses the entire 4x3 aspect of the tube face, and you can also use lower resolution Digital PJ's to get a higher resolution
using the same method. Or you can create unusual displays for trade shows with non standard aspects or display layouts.


here is my CRT Edge Blend, I mute each PJ to show how each PJ does about 60% of the image.





EDIT: Here is a paper on it as well

http://paulbourke.net/texture_colour/edgeblend/

Last edited by nashou66; 02-20-2015 at 10:10 AM.
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post #4 of 12 Old 02-20-2015, 08:39 AM
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Lumagen needs to make this happen. Those TV ones are crap; too inflexible and as you stated "pixel by pixel gamma" is what's needed to get the job done.

Commercial blend units being driven by high powered workstations make the zone disappear because they have the processing power and software to tweak every last little nook and cranny of the blend zone. I'd love if Lumagen would dump the 3D and other crap that is unnecessary and offer a blend function. While we're at it I'd love a new FPGA so I can run my Mini at 200mhz without distortions

I think there's a lot of people who would consider blending but don't because of the cost of having so many processors and also because none of the available units really work very well. If you have one unit that could handle all of the necessary functions and provide a seamless blend zone I think there would be many interested folks.
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post #5 of 12 Old 02-20-2015, 12:17 PM
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Interesting. This would make crt projectors more interesting to own.
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post #6 of 12 Old 02-20-2015, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post
Interesting. This would make crt projectors more interesting to own.

They already are? The Sony, Marquee,s and Barcos now have HDMI input cards thanks to a Man named Moome. http://www.moomecard.com/moome/products


They are also sold on Curtpalme.com


Plus its a lot of fun if you like to tinker and mess with things. I know you do from your comments about laser disc's in another Lumagen thread

Nashou
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post #7 of 12 Old 02-20-2015, 08:03 PM
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I love the poll choices offered:
  • Yes
  • Yes
  • Yes
  • Yes

I was actually interested in this two years back and did a lot of research on CRT edge-blending. Ten years ago it made more sense and the engineer/hacker in me still finds it appealing. I even looked into a Stewart Starglas rigid rear-projection screen (for better noise insulation). I watch mostly 2.35:1 movies and the side-by-side blending would be perfect for a screen of that shape.

But today's digitals have reached the "good enough" point where the impracticality of edge-blending is just overwhelming. You need two giant, heavy, loud projectors side-by-side, ceiling mounted (or rear PJ which means a huge room). Their whirring fans will be directly overhead. They have to be kept precisely in alignment. Not to mention the color/gamma matching problems you refer to here.

This is such a tiny niche. I can't see how it could be economical for Lumagen to invest the R&D when it might only sell them a dozen more units.
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post #8 of 12 Old 02-21-2015, 05:59 AM
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I always entertained the idea of running my laserdiscs through a g90 or a 9500. Since all laserdiscs(except a few) are in 4:3 format(although most are letterboxed), I never thought about edge blending up to now.

I do however remember from Crystalio II days(2006 ish) that you needed two video processors for this. Crystalio II is a dual architecture dual output video processor(it could output two different inputs from its two hdmi outputs simultaneously) PMS said it still wasn't possible with one unit.

Lumagen has two hdmi outputs but I believe it doesn't have the hardware to output two different inputs simultaneously. You could use two 2020s(after a hdmi splitter probably). This would be nothing more than a new aspect ratio mode added in. The only issue I can imagine is from hdmi handshakes, timing etc.. If there was way for the lumagen units to share the same clock (like denon link)and maybe hd-sdi instead of hdmi would make it very reliable.

Just my thoughts
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post #9 of 12 Old 02-21-2015, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post
I always entertained the idea of running my laserdiscs through a g90 or a 9500. Since all laserdiscs(except a few) are in 4:3 format(although most are letterboxed), I never thought about edge blending up to now.

I do however remember from Crystalio II days(2006 ish) that you needed two video processors for this. Crystalio II is a dual architecture dual output video processor(it could output two different inputs from its two hdmi outputs simultaneously) PMS said it still wasn't possible with one unit.

Lumagen has two hdmi outputs but I believe it doesn't have the hardware to output two different inputs simultaneously. You could use two 2020s(after a hdmi splitter probably). This would be nothing more than a new aspect ratio mode added in. The only issue I can imagine is from hdmi handshakes, timing etc.. If there was way for the lumagen units to share the same clock (like denon link)and maybe hd-sdi instead of hdmi would make it very reliable.

Just my thoughts

Obviously if they come out with a new unit they would use the best FPGA out there I would assume and it have to be 4k capable. Also they have been talking about having each output independent scaling and CMS abilities. This is where Edge blending comes in, you need each output to be independent of the other. This would open their market to commercial customers. Some small commercial users can not afford a large venue scaler to this like the Vista Spyder XP20. Also they already have Genlock and this can be set easily in the FPGA to lock to the inputs and then the outputs. That is a simple assignment.


I admit I am doing this mostly for the small number of CRT edge blenders and some edge blending gamers out there. But I strongly believe Lumagen can increase its customer base in the long run to include commercial clients. They just have to get the word out.


Athanasios
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post #10 of 12 Old 02-21-2015, 06:55 AM
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Oh I was strictly speaking of their current offerings. I don't know much about their upcoming unit.

I am sure you already know this. Their older units XD/XE units could process two streams hence pip/pop functions. They dropped these functions in the newer models. I am pretty sure the current VXP chip is also two 1080p channel as the previous one. So it's not a hardware limitation. They probably thought it wasn't a worthwhile feature to have. So in this regard we got a downgrade.

it could be offered as hardware add on like their trigger option. An additional hdmi output on a daughter board. Maybe another fpga just for processing cms for this output. It would probably be in 1-2k range but would keep the base price low and offer the ability to who cares
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post #11 of 12 Old 02-21-2015, 08:04 AM
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Could you do 2.35:1 with two 4k or 1080p projos without anamorphic lenses using edge blending?
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Edge blending has a MASSIVE use in commercial projection, Lumagen have to date either failed to recognize this market area, Or feel it has no viable product value - While many others specifically target this market.

The all the existing amazing features of Lumagen products and links to 3rd party calibration software for fast automation Lumagen products are possibly already the best foundation for this feature.

Large projection of images on screens for presentation benefit from the high resolution and close projection to screen distance allowing staggering images on large stage production with relatively small total kit size and weight, Important for logistics costs both shipping and on site labor.

This took a step forward with 'close projection' projectors which could be inches away from projection screen, still requiring 'blending' for that high impact large screen image.

One company felt this function so important it was included within the projector 30 years ago, Carried forward from CRT to digital projection.

This feature is not restricted to dual PJ left/right blending, Multi row projection using top/bottom/left/right blending is a requirement.

ONE of the things about blending is that you don't have to consider 4K per output as the target, the beauty of blending is that many lower resolution projection units are combined to create the final image, 4K would actually be WAY BELOW a large number of systems,

PLEASE PASS ON that 'bit depth of the roll off area is VERY important, CRT requires high bit depth in the roll off area to avoid obvious visual stepping' - I worked with another company many years ago after I highlighted this issue to them, Digital did not have the infinite color ability so this was not so critical at the time, Technology moved forward so still a high priority requirement.
Early (SEMU) information is worth a read with the way they alter roll off based on intensity, and day/night light settings - IIRC.

Imagine walking into a Cinema, Museum, Concert, Office corridor, Car showroom, Nursery, School, Airport to see a long wall 'alive' with a seamless image projection....................I give you "Lumiblend".............

Bringing Rodan-O-Blend to you.

Find me on the map :UK CRT : European CRT : Worldwide CRT
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