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post #4501 of 4561 Old 10-04-2017, 02:07 AM
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no video output with new Integral

https://www.hdfury.com/support/ - offers this forum as a Customer Support venue.

Ordered Integral from HDfury.com on Sept 29, received it on Oct 2. Appears to be a defective unit.

First two digits of serial number "02".

Tested sources: AppleTV 3, Amazon Fire TV 2
Tested displays: NEC MultiSync PA302w (direct), Panasonic AE-3000U (via Denon AVR 3808ci)

Both sources work to both displays - with a female-female adapter in place instead of the Integral.

Video to neither display with either source - with Integral inserted into chain instead of the adapter.

Both input ports and both output ports of the Integral tested - all four combinations.

Tested with settings
set by switches: hdcp 1.4, fixed edid and edid automix, audio from hdmi, HDFury USB power supply.

set by GUI application on Windows 7:
SiLabs 3.9.3 driver and USB2 connection
(with switches set to middle / (bt) position):
hdcp 1.4, fixed edid and edid automix, audio from hdmi.
read edid from display and wrote it to Custom-1. Tested with both displays.


==
I purchased the Integral both because I actually have a use for it and after receiving an email that Integral owners would receive a discount on a Vertex. Obviously, won't be considering another purchase until this one is resolved.
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post #4502 of 4561 Old 10-04-2017, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
https://www.hdfury.com/support/ - offers this forum as a Customer Support venue.

Ordered Integral from HDfury.com on Sept 29, received it on Oct 2. Appears to be a defective unit.

First two digits of serial number "02".

Tested sources: AppleTV 3, Amazon Fire TV 2
Tested displays: NEC MultiSync PA302w (direct), Panasonic AE-3000U (via Denon AVR 3808ci)

Both sources work to both displays - with a female-female adapter in place instead of the Integral.

Video to neither display with either source - with Integral inserted into chain instead of the adapter.

Both input ports and both output ports of the Integral tested - all four combinations.

Tested with settings
set by switches: hdcp 1.4, fixed edid and edid automix, audio from hdmi, HDFury USB power supply.

set by GUI application on Windows 7:
SiLabs 3.9.3 driver and USB2 connection
(with switches set to middle / (bt) position):
hdcp 1.4, fixed edid and edid automix, audio from hdmi.
read edid from display and wrote it to Custom-1. Tested with both displays.


==
I purchased the Integral both because I actually have a use for it and after receiving an email that Integral owners would receive a discount on a Vertex. Obviously, won't be considering another purchase until this one is resolved.
Hi, can you please confirm the following:

- Length of each HDMI cable in the setup
- Firmware running on Integral
- If Integral logo is solid green when you try either sources ?
- What is the purpose/goal of Integral in your setup ?

PS: You said you tried FIXED EDID AND EDID AUTOMIX, please stick with FIXED for the moment till you got a picture.

IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.
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post #4503 of 4561 Old 10-04-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Hi, can you please confirm the following:

- Length of each HDMI cable in the setup
- Firmware running on Integral
- If Integral logo is solid green when you try either sources ?
- What is the purpose/goal of Integral in your setup ?

PS: You said you tried FIXED EDID AND EDID AUTOMIX, please stick with FIXED for the moment till you got a picture.
Cable lengths:
for NEC MultiSync monitor testing - 6' from source to Integral, 6' from Intregral to Monitor.
Both 4k rated purchased from HDFury at same time as the Integral.
for Panny testing - 6' from source to Integral, 25' from Integral to Denon, 6' from Denon to Panny.
Works fine if female/female adapter inserted instead of Integral.
Firmware: 62/37
"[13-JUL-17] 4K Integral GUI EDID HDR/IF Control Utility 1.14 – ZIP – 11.5 Mo GUI 1.14 ZIP 11.5 Mo 13-JUL-17"
Was delivered with 63/37. Loaded it with the 62/37 for second day of tests just to rule out possible corruption in that area.

Solid green: yes, for both sources

Purpose: Multiple short term and long term.
Gotta say that primary purpose has to be to deliver a video signal.
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post #4504 of 4561 Old 10-04-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
Cable lengths:
for NEC MultiSync monitor testing - 6' from source to Integral, 6' from Intregral to Monitor.
Both 4k rated purchased from HDFury at same time as the Integral.
for Panny testing - 6' from source to Integral, 25' from Integral to Denon, 6' from Denon to Panny.
Works fine if female/female adapter inserted instead of Integral.
Firmware: 62/37
"[13-JUL-17] 4K Integral GUI EDID HDR/IF Control Utility 1.14 – ZIP – 11.5 Mo GUI 1.14 ZIP 11.5 Mo 13-JUL-17"
Was delivered with 63/37. Loaded it with the 62/37 for second day of tests just to rule out possible corruption in that area.

Solid green: yes, for both sources

Purpose: Multiple short term and long term.
Gotta say that primary purpose has to be to deliver a video signal.
Well the problem is that if you got the GREEN LOGO SOLID always then it means Integral is receiving and outputting a signal.
Can you please take GUI screenshot when LOGO is SOLID GREEN. It should help to find out.

Make sure you are not in Matrix mode (2 blue leds ON) you need to be in Splitter mode (1 blue led ONLY)

In all cases, HOLD RST for 8sec for factory reset and HDCP slide on 1.4, EDID on FIXED should give a picture out of the box.

IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.
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post #4505 of 4561 Old 10-05-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Well the problem is that if you got the GREEN LOGO SOLID always then it means Integral is receiving and outputting a signal.
Can you please take GUI screenshot when LOGO is SOLID GREEN. It should help to find out.

Make sure you are not in Matrix mode (2 blue leds ON) you need to be in Splitter mode (1 blue led ONLY)

In all cases, HOLD RST for 8sec for factory reset and HDCP slide on 1.4, EDID on FIXED should give a picture out of the box.
As you have requested, I have uploaded that screenshot: 2a Connected - Logo On - screen clip

Also uploaded are some photos providing additional evidence this unit is defective:
1 Disconnected - Logo Off - photo.JPG
2 Connected - Logo On - Black monitor - photo.JPG
3 Direct connect - works - photo
4 Direct connect - monitor HDMI info - photo
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post #4506 of 4561 Old 10-06-2017, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
As you have requested, I have uploaded that screenshot: 2a Connected - Logo On - screen clip

Also uploaded are some photos providing additional evidence this unit is defective:
1 Disconnected - Logo Off - photo.JPG
2 Connected - Logo On - Black monitor - photo.JPG
3 Direct connect - works - photo
4 Direct connect - monitor HDMI info - photo
Yes i agree with you, please send email with your order number and link to this thread, the guys will arrange replacement immediately and provide return label to study the fault on this unit.

Our deepest apologies.

IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.
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post #4507 of 4561 Old 10-06-2017, 08:47 AM
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I tested HDR metadata injection with the Vertex prototype that I am testing; not with the Integral. It seems to work well with the Vertex. It retains the custom HDR metatadata and retains the Enable Custom HDR checkbox setting after disc changes, and also after Vertex power restart.

You can either paste in a metadata string; or use the edit fields to set values for Max/Min Luminance, MaxCLL, and MaxFALL and click the Create IF button. Then write the custom metadata string with the Send HDR button.

You can even dynamically tweak the values, then Create IF, and Send HDR over and over if you like. And dynamically enable/disable the Enable Custom HDR checkbox. The Vertex OSD shows the on-the-fly changes on your display.

I tested by submitting the HDR metadata captured from the 1000 nit title Lucy. Then played two 4000 nit titles; Batman vs Superman and Angels and Demons. The Vertex OSD reported the Lucy 1000 nit values on my JVC RS500 projected display instead of the 4000 nit values those titles are mastered at.

.................Max Lum..Min Lum....MaxCLL...MaxFALL.HDR Metadata
Lucy............. 1000 ... 0.005 ... 1000 ... 400 ... 87:01:1a:74:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:e8:03:32:00:e8:03:90:01
Batman v Superman 4000 ... 0.005 ... 4000 ... 1000 .. 87:01:1a:92:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:a0:0f:e8:03
Angels and Demons 4000 ... 0.005 ... 2105 ... 1007 .. 87:01:1a:f9:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:39:08:ef:03


The Vertex adds so many additional features and capabilities along with ease of use that I would recommend it over either the Integral or Linker or a combination of both.
Received my Integral today... only had a few minutes to try, but i tried to replace/inject Metadata via the GUI, unfortunately it doesnt really work as intended, it seems like the TV only receives the "new" metadata for a few frames, then gets the "old" metadata for a few frames until the Integral suddenly sends the "new" metadata again for a few frames. Basically the TV kinda "flickers" as it applies the tone mapping for "new"/"old" metadata.

What am i doing wrong that the integral doesnt replace/inject the new metadata continuously but in frequency of every seconds or so?
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post #4508 of 4561 Old 10-06-2017, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandrion View Post
Received my Integral today... only had a few minutes to try, but i tried to replace/inject Metadata via the GUI, unfortunately it doesnt really work as intended, it seems like the TV only receives the "new" metadata for a few frames, then gets the "old" metadata for a few frames until the Integral suddenly sends the "new" metadata again for a few frames. Basically the TV kinda "flickers" as it applies the tone mapping for "new"/"old" metadata.

What am i doing wrong that the integral doesnt replace/inject the new metadata continuously but in frequency of every seconds or so?
Do you have AUDIO slide on replacement/jack position ?

IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.
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post #4509 of 4561 Old 10-06-2017, 10:13 AM
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Do you have AUDIO slide on replacement/jack position ?
Yes, but i will verify tomorrow when i try again and make some screens what settings im using.
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post #4510 of 4561 Old 10-06-2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Yes i agree with you, please send email with your order number and link to this thread, the guys will arrange replacement immediately and provide return label to study the fault on this unit.
email sent via contacts page at: https://www.hdfury.com/contact/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Our deepest apologies.
Not necessary, since you are making it right. But, thank you.
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post #4511 of 4561 Old 10-06-2017, 12:22 PM
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I have an integral with old firmware i'm sure... It says FW ver: 0.51.0.27 in the app

I tried to use my windows 10 PC with USB 3.0 to update the driver to 4.0. I chose device manager, found the integral, update driver and pointed to the new file but windows says that i have the most current driver (3.2!).

I also need help with the best settings for my setup. How do i set the scaling of the second output on the integral to 1080p?

UBP-X800-> Integral 4k60 hdcp 2.2 ---> Zigen da14-uhd --> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr --> Sony 4k tv
---> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr ----> Sony 4k tv hdr

---> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr ----> Samsung frame 4k tv hdr

---> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr ----> Sunbrite 4k tv

Integral 4k60 hdcp 1.4 ---> Vanco EVSP4K18 ---> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr ----> Samsung 1080p TV

---> Marantz sr7011 4k avr ----> Samsung 1080p TV

---> Marantz sr7009 avr ----> Marantz 1080p projector

The hdmi cables are metra MHY series for the short connections and celerity for the long runs.

Thx,

Jim
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post #4512 of 4561 Old 10-06-2017, 06:25 PM
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@HDfury bad news.... I received my avr key, and connected the audio only output via hdbt. No sound. Once I connected it via normal hdmi, sound worked just fine. You claimed that it should work no problem over hdbt. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt this time, and I will look at a replacement hdbt transmitter/receiver setup. I just bought one on amazon. If it fails again, then I will return your product. I am disappointed at the moment, but like I said I will just assume that my hdbt balun is the culprit, and not the avr key.

Please confirm once more you have tested the avr key extracted audio with multiple hdbt setups. Sucks to have to spend so much money just to get uncompressed audio AND video with my setup . Would not have wired my house this way if I knew what I knew now.
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post #4513 of 4561 Old 10-06-2017, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandrion View Post
Received my Integral today... only had a few minutes to try, but i tried to replace/inject Metadata via the GUI, unfortunately it doesnt really work as intended, it seems like the TV only receives the "new" metadata for a few frames, then gets the "old" metadata for a few frames until the Integral suddenly sends the "new" metadata again for a few frames. Basically the TV kinda "flickers" as it applies the tone mapping for "new"/"old" metadata.

What am i doing wrong that the integral doesnt replace/inject the new metadata continuously but in frequency of every seconds or so?
To test HDR injection with the Integral I connected devices in this order:

Oppo 203 -> Denon x4200w AVR -> Integral EDID 2 and Audio Source=Jack -> Vertex prototype EDID 2 -> JVC RS500

I placed the Vertex in the device chain in order to determine what HDR metadata the Integral was sending.

With the Oppo Home Screen displayed (REC709 and no HDR), I marked the Force HDR Always Active checkbox and pasted a metadata string into the Custom HDR IF text area and clicked Send IF. The Vertex OSD reported HDR metadata and it matched the metadata that I submitted to the Integral.

If I uncheck the Force HDRcheckbox, the Vertex reports no HDR. If I then mark the checkbox again, the Vertex reports reports a default HDR metadata instead of the custom string that I had previously submitted. Click the Send IF button and my submitted data is reported again.

It might be because of the number of devices I have connected, but I would occasionally lose video sync. When resync was complete and video reappeared, the HDR metadata reverted to default values. I had to click the Send IF button to restore my custom metadata. Same behavior if I power restarted the Integral.

If I start playback of a UHD movie HDR disc, my custom HDR metadata is replaced by the disc HDR metadata values. While the disc is playing I am unable to alter the metadata to my custom values. The Force HDR checkbox and Send IF button seemed to be ignored.

The Integral behavior differs from that of the Vertex. The Vertex does not revert from the custom metadata even on power restart. I am able to send custom metadata even when a UHD disc is played and starting playback does not revert the metadata values to defaults.

I did not encounter the reported behavior... it seems like the TV only receives the "new" metadata for a few frames, then gets the "old" metadata for a few frames until the Integral suddenly sends the "new" metadata again for a few frames

Integral ver. 0.60.0.34 and GUI 1.12.

CJ

Last edited by claw; 10-06-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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post #4514 of 4561 Old 10-07-2017, 12:15 AM
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Yes, but i will verify tomorrow when i try again and make some screens what settings im using.
Ok let us know. The reason Disable HDR was not made on Integral is because it could not blank incoming metadata fully (technically could not keep up with the flow so some metadata would reach display, a bit like you are explaining), so may be replacement of existing metadata is not perfect depending on TV. Vertex will however, like Linker, perform this task and the disabling perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsley AV View Post
I have an integral with old firmware i'm sure... It says FW ver: 0.51.0.27 in the app

I tried to use my windows 10 PC with USB 3.0 to update the driver to 4.0. I chose device manager, found the integral, update driver and pointed to the new file but windows says that i have the most current driver (3.2!).

I also need help with the best settings for my setup. How do i set the scaling of the second output on the integral to 1080p?

UBP-X800-> Integral 4k60 hdcp 2.2 ---> Zigen da14-uhd --> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr --> Sony 4k tv
---> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr ----> Sony 4k tv hdr

---> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr ----> Samsung frame 4k tv hdr

---> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr ----> Sunbrite 4k tv

Integral 4k60 hdcp 1.4 ---> Vanco EVSP4K18 ---> Denon avrx2400h 4k avr ----> Samsung 1080p TV

---> Marantz sr7011 4k avr ----> Samsung 1080p TV

---> Marantz sr7009 avr ----> Marantz 1080p projector

The hdmi cables are metra MHY series for the short connections and celerity for the long runs.

Thx,

Jim
Hi Jim,

Please have a read to the usermanual regarding how to update your unit.
You need to first install the right silabs drivers on your computer (nothing to do with Integral and device manager) and once done you can run FPGA and MCU update.

Integral is not a scaler, so you cannot have one output at 4K60 and the other at 1080p60, however you can have this working using Linker at output to downscale one output from 4K to 1080p or simply by using Vertex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisma View Post
@HDfury bad news.... I received my avr key, and connected the audio only output via hdbt. No sound. Once I connected it via normal hdmi, sound worked just fine. You claimed that it should work no problem over hdbt. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt this time, and I will look at a replacement hdbt transmitter/receiver setup. I just bought one on amazon. If it fails again, then I will return your product. I am disappointed at the moment, but like I said I will just assume that my hdbt balun is the culprit, and not the avr key.

Please confirm once more you have tested the avr key extracted audio with multiple hdbt setups. Sucks to have to spend so much money just to get uncompressed audio AND video with my setup . Would not have wired my house this way if I knew what I knew now.
Please give us the source brand/model you tried, the AVR brand model you tried and the signal path as well as the HDBT brand/model you are using.
AVR-Key is just released so there will be firmware upgrade for it, so if there is something we can do for your case, we will do it. Need above info first.
Also please confirm that "normal video signal" of 1080p successfully goes thru your HDBT solution or not.

IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.

Last edited by HDfury; 10-07-2017 at 12:22 AM.
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post #4515 of 4561 Old 10-07-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post

Please give us the source brand/model you tried, the AVR brand model you tried and the signal path as well as the HDBT brand/model you are using.
AVR-Key is just released so there will be firmware upgrade for it, so if there is something we can do for your case, we will do it. Need above info first.
Also please confirm that "normal video signal" of 1080p successfully goes thru your HDBT solution or not.
Thanks for trying to help. I did some testing/troubleshooting.

TV - Samsung HU9000 w/ SEK3500u
source - Nvidia shield TV (2017 model)
AVR - onkyo NR737
matrix switch - monoprice Blackbird 4k HDBaseT 4x4 Matrix with PoC, 4K@60Hz
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15779

combinations I tested -
shield TV with AVR key - video straight to TV (SEK3500u), audio to AVR via HDBT = video and no sound
shield TV with AVR key - audio straight to TV (SEK3500u), video to AVR via HDBT = black screen and no sound
shield TV with AVR key - video straight to TV (SEK3500u), audio to AVR via 50' hdmi cable = video and sound
shield TV with AVR key - video via HDBT to TV (SEK3500u), audio direct to AVR = no video and no sound
shield TV with AVR key - audio via HDBT to TV (SEK3500u), video direct to AVR = black screen and no sound
shield TV WITHOUT AVR key - direct to TV (SEK3500u) via HDBT = video and sound via TV speakers (AVR out of signal chain)
shield TV WITHOUT AVR key - direct to AVR, HDMI out from AVR to TV (SEK3500u) via HDBT = video and sound. Video up to 4K60Hz 8-bit 4:2:0 is possible.

Observations - the shield TV seems to work perfectly well via HDBT without the avr key. HDBT via my onkyo AVR or straight to the TV doesn't make a difference. Once the AVR key is added to the chain however...
- AVR key CANNOT pass video via HDBT using the monoprice switch... no matter what setting I use (I moved the video switch and got no video no matter what setting)
- AVR key audio out produces a black screen via HDBT and with normal HDMI when connecting as a video source... I think this is what it's supposed to do??
- AVR key can separately pass audio and video just fine once HDBT is taken out of the signal chain and normal HDMI is used.

These are the exact same results I had when using a cheap $35 HDMI 2.0 splitter I bought on amazon. Audio Split with HDBT = no audio. Audio split with normal HDMI cable = audio. Now, not to denigrate the AVR key, but what I think this highlights is that whatever issue that is causing the cheap splitter to be incompatible with my monoprice HDBT switch is the same issue that is causing the AVR Key to not work also.

One "feature" of the monoprice switch is that it has configurable EDID. So that it will effectively limit the source to whatever you set the custom EDID to. It seems that if I just try to let the switch pass the source through without a custom EDID, it just defaults back to a custom EDID. My guess is that the custom EDID is what is screwing things up. The switch has an option of uploading the EDID settings of the source device and allowing to apply that EDID as a custom setting. I pulled the EDID info from the AVR key with the audio only, and applied it to the HDBT switch, but still didn't work.

If you have some sort of ideas I can try, I'm all ears. I ordered a fairly cheap HDBT balun that is a simple transmitter/receiver w/ CAT6 and POE. Has no custom EDID options or anything. It arrives tomorrow. I will test that with the AVR key and see if I get different results. Still... if you could potentially figure out what is causing the issues here and fix it via firmware to work with my 4x4 switch, that would be much preferred. I am fairly certain it should be capable of working somehow... as the shield TV works just fine via HDBT, as does any other device I've connected via HDBT. It's just introducing a splitter that seems to screw things up.

Here's a copy of the matrix manual since it's impossible to find online -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7K...ew?usp=sharing

and here's a screenshot of the EDID it pulled from the avr key -


Hope you guys can come up with a solution for me. Would love to keep your device. But obviously if I can't make it work I will need to return it.

Last edited by Hisma; 10-07-2017 at 01:40 PM.
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post #4516 of 4561 Old 10-07-2017, 01:42 PM
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another option, I can manually type a EDID and apply it as a custom setting. So if you can tell me exactly what the EDID settings should be for the audio only portion, I can try that and report back.
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post #4517 of 4561 Old 10-07-2017, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hisma View Post
Thanks for trying to help. I did some testing/troubleshooting.

TV - Samsung HU9000 w/ SEK3500u
source - Nvidia shield TV (2017 model)
AVR - onkyo NR737
matrix switch - monoprice Blackbird 4k HDBaseT 4x4 Matrix with PoC, 4K@60Hz
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15779

combinations I tested -
shield TV with AVR key - video straight to TV (SEK3500u), audio to AVR via HDBT = video and no sound
shield TV with AVR key - audio straight to TV (SEK3500u), video to AVR via HDBT = black screen and no sound
shield TV with AVR key - video straight to TV (SEK3500u), audio to AVR via 50' hdmi cable = video and sound
shield TV with AVR key - video via HDBT to TV (SEK3500u), audio direct to AVR = no video and no sound
shield TV with AVR key - audio via HDBT to TV (SEK3500u), video direct to AVR = black screen and no sound
shield TV WITHOUT AVR key - direct to TV (SEK3500u) via HDBT = video and sound via TV speakers (AVR out of signal chain)
shield TV WITHOUT AVR key - direct to AVR, HDMI out from AVR to TV (SEK3500u) via HDBT = video and sound. Video up to 4K60Hz 8-bit 4:2:0 is possible.

Observations - the shield TV seems to work perfectly well via HDBT without the avr key. HDBT via my onkyo AVR or straight to the TV doesn't make a difference. Once the AVR key is added to the chain however...
- AVR key CANNOT pass video via HDBT using the monoprice switch... no matter what setting I use (I moved the video switch and got no video no matter what setting)
- AVR key audio out produces a black screen via HDBT and with normal HDMI when connecting as a video source... I think this is what it's supposed to do??
- AVR key can separately pass audio and video just fine once HDBT is taken out of the signal chain and normal HDMI is used.

These are the exact same results I had when using a cheap $35 HDMI 2.0 splitter I bought on amazon. Audio Split with HDBT = no audio. Audio split with normal HDMI cable = audio. Now, not to denigrate the AVR key, but what I think this highlights is that whatever issue that is causing the cheap splitter to be incompatible with my monoprice HDBT switch is the same issue that is causing the AVR Key to not work also.

One "feature" of the monoprice switch is that it has configurable EDID. So that it will effectively limit the source to whatever you set the custom EDID to. It seems that if I just try to let the switch pass the source through without a custom EDID, it just defaults back to a custom EDID. My guess is that the custom EDID is what is screwing things up. The switch has an option of uploading the EDID settings of the source device and allowing to apply that EDID as a custom setting. I pulled the EDID info from the AVR key with the audio only, and applied it to the HDBT switch, but still didn't work.

If you have some sort of ideas I can try, I'm all ears. I ordered a fairly cheap HDBT balun that is a simple transmitter/receiver w/ CAT6 and POE. Has no custom EDID options or anything. It arrives tomorrow. I will test that with the AVR key and see if I get different results. Still... if you could potentially figure out what is causing the issues here and fix it via firmware to work with my 4x4 switch, that would be much preferred. I am fairly certain it should be capable of working somehow... as the shield TV works just fine via HDBT, as does any other device I've connected via HDBT. It's just introducing a splitter that seems to screw things up.

Here's a copy of the matrix manual since it's impossible to find online -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7K...ew?usp=sharing

and here's a screenshot of the EDID it pulled from the avr key -


Hope you guys can come up with a solution for me. Would love to keep your device. But obviously if I can't make it work I will need to return it.
The AVR AUDIO (the audio stream extracted and forward via 720 or 1080p is BLACK VIDEO) so when you have BLACK VIDEO and no sound, more likely you have BLACK VIDEO and AUDIO and the AVR cannot decode it.
The post you made is interesting, lot of good infos but we need to be more accurate on the signal sent (this is easy to verify from shield menu) and the content played.
Please confirm if your tests were done with SHIELD main interface or playing content like Netflix, etc...

Also depending on your HDBT edid settings, it might copy output edid and present it to source in SINK mode, so the EDID mode in use on your HDBT device is important to know for each test too.
AVRkey video slide have TOP/BOT or LEFT/RIGHT position are 600MHz EDID, so of course this cannot work for your HDBT, unless you first go in shield settings and lower the resolution.
so the only real EDID position you can use is the middle one to forward video to your HDBT, but since it's not the goal, no need to elaborate much further (the test of sending 1080p through AVRKEY video out to the HDBT is still interesting).

Have you made test with AUDIO SLIDE on Stereo ?
Did you try to copy the AVR edid on the HDBT and use AUDIO SLIDE on middle position ?

PS: if you want to try some EDID on your HDBT, you can download our EDID collection from our website, for ex, on Integral product page > download section, you will find a link to it.

PS2: would be nice to move the discussion on AVRkey thread, as it might confuse readers here.

IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.

Last edited by HDfury; 10-07-2017 at 06:50 PM.
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post #4518 of 4561 Old 10-07-2017, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
The AVR AUDIO (the audio stream extracted and forward via 720 or 1080p is BLACK VIDEO) so when you have BLACK VIDEO and no sound, more likely you have BLACK VIDEO and AUDIO and the AVR cannot decode it.
The post you made is interesting, lot of good infos but we need to be more accurate on the signal sent (this is easy to verify from shield menu) and the content played.
Please confirm if your tests were done with SHIELD main interface or playing content like Netflix, etc...

Also depending on your HDBT edid settings, it might copy output edid and present it to source in SINK mode, so the EDID mode in use on your HDBT device is important to know for each test too.
AVRkey video slide have TOP/BOT or LEFT/RIGHT position are 600MHz EDID, so of course this cannot work for your HDBT, unless you first go in shield settings and lower the resolution.
so the only real EDID position you can use is the middle one to forward video to your HDBT, but since it's not the goal, no need to elaborate much further (the test of sending 1080p through AVRKEY video out to the HDBT is still interesting).

Have you made test with AUDIO SLIDE on Stereo ?
Did you try to copy the AVR edid on the HDBT and use AUDIO SLIDE on middle position ?

PS: if you want to try some EDID on your HDBT, you can download our EDID collection from our website, for ex, on Integral product page > download section, you will find a link to it.

PS2: would be nice to move the discussion on AVRkey thread, as it might confuse readers here.
Yes, I will move over to the AVRKey thread... I thought the same thing. I will respond to your post there. Mods please feel free to move my avrkey discussion there. May be useful to others in the future.
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post #4519 of 4561 Old 10-08-2017, 04:45 AM
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Input in HDMI Integral, top (2.0) Ruku P+ (2.0 HDMI), bottom (1.4) Oppo 203 video only (2.0 HDMI).
Output from HDMI Integral, top (2.0) Samsung hw-k950 DV soundbar (2.0 HDMI), bottom (1.4) LG C7 OLED (2.0 HDMI).

Using default settings in the Integral.
See screen shot.

Why is this the only way my video/audio will work.?
This seems to be limiting my Oppo and C7, having to use these setting.
iow, I can't use any custom settings even if I change EDID setting from automix.

Thanks.

ss
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Input in HDMI Integral, top (2.0) Ruku P+ (2.0 HDMI), bottom (1.4) Oppo 203 video only (2.0 HDMI).
Output from HDMI Integral, top (2.0) Samsung hw-k950 DV soundbar (2.0 HDMI), bottom (1.4) LG C7 OLED (2.0 HDMI).

Using default settings in the Integral.
See screen shot.

Why is this the only way my video/audio will work.?
This seems to be limiting my Oppo and C7, having to use these setting.
iow, I can't use any custom settings even if I change EDID setting from automix.

Thanks.

ss
Sorry but what is the question exactly ?

Also, why are you using MATRIX mode ? you should use splitter mode i guess and move HDCP slide to 1.4 !

IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.
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post #4521 of 4561 Old 10-08-2017, 06:46 AM
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Sorry but what is the question exactly ?

Also, why are you using MATRIX mode ? you should use splitter mode i guess and move HDCP slide to 1.4 !
My C7 says invalid format when I short press split.
Changing to HDCP slide to 1.4 does nothing.
byw, the Ruku is always active.

My question is why must I use the settings in that post I listed above when I use and check DV for a DV Blu Ray.

Also when the Oppo is set to source direct you must use matrix mode, even if you are using a HDR Blu Ray.
Set to custom and using a HDR Blu Ray, then I can use output B mode.

ss

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Last edited by sillysally; 10-08-2017 at 08:36 AM.
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post #4522 of 4561 Old 10-08-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Input in HDMI Integral, top (2.0) Ruku P+ (2.0 HDMI), bottom (1.4) Oppo 203 video only (2.0 HDMI).
Output from HDMI Integral, top (2.0) Samsung hw-k950 DV soundbar (2.0 HDMI), bottom (1.4) LG C7 OLED (2.0 HDMI).

Using default settings in the Integral.
See screen shot.

Why is this the only way my video/audio will work.?
This seems to be limiting my Oppo and C7, having to use these setting.
iow, I can't use any custom settings even if I change EDID setting from automix.

Thanks.

ss
Did you mean to say Dolby Atmos soundbar rather than Dolby Vision (DV)? Samsung does not support Dolby Vision.

If I understand, you are trying to:

Connect Roku 4K and Oppo UHD player as inputs to the Integral.
Connect one Integral output to LG C7 OLED that supports Dolby Vision.
Connect one Integral output to Samsung Dolby Atmos soundbar.

In other words you want to use the LG for video, including Dolby Vision content. You want to use the soundbar simultaneously for audio.

Do I understand correctly what you are attempting to do? And is it Dolby Vision content from UHD discs that is causing the problems?

If so, I think you might want to download the Additional EDID collection that includes Dolby Vision supported EDIDs and select one of them instead of using Automix. Run the Integral in splitter mode. And then hope that your soundbar will accept a signal that includes Dolby Vision.

If the soundbar won't accept a DV signal, then you could add an HDFury AVRKey device between the Integral and the soundbar to split off an audio only signal to feed the soundbar.

@HDfury , do you agree with my suggestion?

CJ
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post #4523 of 4561 Old 10-08-2017, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Did you mean to say Dolby Atmos soundbar rather than Dolby Vision (DV)? Samsung does not support Dolby Vision.

If I understand, you are trying to:

Connect Roku 4K and Oppo UHD player as inputs to the Integral.
Connect one Integral output to LG C7 OLED that supports Dolby Vision.
Connect one Integral output to Samsung Dolby Atmos soundbar.

In other words you want to use the LG for video, including Dolby Vision content. You want to use the soundbar simultaneously for audio.

Do I understand correctly what you are attempting to do? And is it Dolby Vision content from UHD discs that is causing the problems?

If so, I think you might want to download the Additional EDID collection that includes Dolby Vision supported EDIDs and select one of them instead of using Automix. Run the Integral in splitter mode. And then hope that your soundbar will accept a signal that includes Dolby Vision.

If the soundbar won't accept a DV signal, then you could add an HDFury AVRKey device between the Integral and the soundbar to split off an audio only signal to feed the soundbar.

@HDfury , do you agree with my suggestion?
I haven't tried to use the Ruku for DA, only the Oppo for DA to the K950.

Ruku (audio/video) to HDMI input of the Integral, then I use both HDMI out ports of the Integral, one HDMI out to the K950 for audio and the other out port of the Integral to the C7 for video.
The K950 will not pass DV out via its HDMI output port only HDR, that's why I use both HDMI out ports of the Integral.

The Oppo I use its audio only HDMI port and have that connected directly to one of the K950 HDMI in ports. The Oppo's HDMI video only port gets connected to the Integral's in and out port to the C7.

The issue is when I play a DV Blu Ray from the Oppo, the only way I can get video on my C7 is to use Matrix mode and automix.
Yes I did try the Additional EDID collection that includes Dolby Vision supported EDIDs, but that means I must use split mode not automix and A/B priority. If I use split mode and A/B priority I will see the Oppo's splash screen but when I play the DV Blu Ray I get one of the three, black screen, very distorted colors or invalid format on my C7.
Yes I can take the Integral out of the loop and just run the Oppo video out to a different HDMI port in the C7. Same as what I am doing with the Audio out from the Oppo directly to one of the two HDMI 2.0 in ports of the K950.
Thanks for your reply claw.

ss

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Last edited by sillysally; 10-08-2017 at 06:21 PM.
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post #4524 of 4561 Old 10-09-2017, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
My C7 says invalid format when I short press split.
Changing to HDCP slide to 1.4 does nothing.
byw, the Ruku is always active.

My question is why must I use the settings in that post I listed above when I use and check DV for a DV Blu Ray.

Also when the Oppo is set to source direct you must use matrix mode, even if you are using a HDR Blu Ray.
Set to custom and using a HDR Blu Ray, then I can use output B mode.

ss
IF YOU ARE IN MATRIX MODE AND SHORT PRESS INP YOU ARE CYCLING THE MATRIX MODE BETWEEN THRU AND SWAP !!!
And when you are in splitter mode (1 blue led ON) then short press INP will cycle input !

You first need to make LONG PRESS to switch from MATRIX MODE to SPLITTER MODE (from 2 BLUE LEDS ON to 1 BLUE LED ON), You can also do this operation from GUI, IR, Android/iOS APP. Please refer to usermanual.
As long as you are in MATRIX mode , you cannot have 2 OUTPUTS AT ALL without 2 inputs ! Matrix mode on integral is limited to 300MHz only Splitter mode is 18Gbps/600MHz.

NOW about DV ! DO NOT USE DV FLAG and DO NOT USE CUSTOM EDID WITH DV !!!
If you read my signature ! it's explained! simply use automix

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to explain further on DV (for everybody out there), here is the deal:

While HDR EDID datablock is the same for any display, we found that the DV EDID datablock have proprietary strings format (they vary) more likely based on model/serie or manufacturer.
That means that DV as a forced flags is not really possible unless you have a complete list of DV proprietary strings for any DV devices out there, not counting the fact that user would have to select the proper DV proprietary strings for his equipment before it could work.
So the only working approach for the moment for any DV equipment is to use AUTOMIX/SINK mode where DV capabilities are copied from sink equipment. (this is valid for Integral, Linker, AVRkey).
This only can ensure that the DV from display is presented to the source and that the DV stream will be compatible with the TV.
Using the string we currently have at DV flags, won't work for all DV equipment, using string we put in CUSTOM DV EDID, won't work for all DV equipment.
So in the meantime, use MAX AUDIO/VIDEO ALGO + AUTOMIX, or TOP PRIORITY ALGO + AUTOMIX (with DV TV AT TOP OUTPUT)

In my signature i also explain that we are working on a new way to handle the recent DV discoveries, attached is latest Vertex screenshot for DV/IF section.
With this latest revision, you can first connect Vertex output to a DV TV or DV equipment, Vertex will automatically extract the proprietay/mandatory DV string from your DV TV and then Vertex can use that value to override automix results when TV is not directly connected at output or override custom EDID. So DV will always work.

Additional note, in all our tests, DV always travels through 300MHz (4K60 4:2:0 8b RGB) except on Apple TV4K, where it travels at 600MHz
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IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.

Last edited by HDfury; 10-09-2017 at 05:55 AM.
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post #4525 of 4561 Old 10-09-2017, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
IF YOU ARE IN MATRIX MODE AND SHORT PRESS INP YOU ARE CYCLING THE MATRIX MODE BETWEEN THRU AND SWAP !!!
And when you are in splitter mode (1 blue led ON) then short press INP will cycle input !

You first need to make LONG PRESS to switch from MATRIX MODE to SPLITTER MODE (from 2 BLUE LEDS ON to 1 BLUE LED ON), You can also do this operation from GUI, IR, Android/iOS APP. Please refer to usermanual.
As long as you are in MATRIX mode , you cannot have 2 OUTPUTS AT ALL without 2 inputs ! Matrix mode on integral is limited to 300MHz only Splitter mode is 18Gbps/600MHz.

NOW about DV ! DO NOT USE DV FLAG and DO NOT USE CUSTOM EDID WITH DV !!!
If you read my signature ! it's explained! simply use automix
Yes that is exactly what I am doing, and yes it works very well for HDR and the higher bit rate.
That is because all (NA) the HDR and DV Blu Rays are formatted with 23.9@4:2:0 not 60@4:2:0.

Yes I do the same as you do for DV, except I use the bottom two HDMI ports "300MHz (4K@24 4:2:0 8b RGB)". Not the end of the world because the display (10 bit) is going to do a RGB conversion anyway.

It seems that the Oppo 203 will help setup the Integral depending on what settings you use in the Oppo. Also because I use both of the Oppo's HDMI out ports, I am only sending the video signal to the Integral. The audio signal goes directly to the K950.

As for the Ruku 2/4K@60 is what it sends for streaming. Because It has only one HDMI port out I use the top HDMI in port of the Integral to split the A/V signal, Therefore I use the two HDMI out ports (top to the K950 audio, bottom to the C7 video) and matrix mode. That also seems to work well, although I haven't spent much time yet using the Ruku.

Because the K950 (soundbar) has two HDMI 2.0 in ports, I do not need to send any audio to the display. That way I can get full DV or DTS decoded by my K950, if I send the A/V signal directly to the C7 (LG 2017 OLED) then out to my K950, the C7 will only send DV 2CH via optical or arc.

Sorry for the long posts, but I am trying to optimize the Integral settings to work with my A/V chain. And what I am seeing is very pleasing.

ss

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Last edited by sillysally; 10-09-2017 at 04:01 PM.
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post #4526 of 4561 Old 10-09-2017, 08:23 PM
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Is there no custom Integral edid for 4k24 with HDR bt2020 and full sound? I was unable to find one even in the edid pack download. There is one that is close but no HDR.
Can Users make custom edids?


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post #4527 of 4561 Old 10-10-2017, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Is there no custom Integral edid for 4k24 with HDR bt2020 and full sound? I was unable to find one even in the edid pack download. There is one that is close but no HDR.
Can Users make custom edids?


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There is some for sure in the EDID download package but you first need to determine if you are looking for 4K24 HDR within 300MHz or up to 600MHz
Said otherwise, are you targeting 4K24 4:2:2 12b BT2020 HDR or 4K24 4:4:4 10/12b BT2020 HDR ?

You can make custom EDID using free software, many are excellent, like AWE.
now for user without special knowledge on EDID making, if you have Integral and another device able to hold some custom edid (like Linker/Vertex for ex), you can load a custom EDID on one device connected at integral output, you can add HDR flag to integral automix and then you can save the file using Integral GUI and you will have that same EDID with the HDR datablock added.

You can also do that using some equipment. like you have TV EDID and want to add full hdmi sound, just connect integral output to TV, add FULL AUDIO flag for automix and save the bin file (which you can then load and use as custom, without having the display connected at output anymore)

Our devices are very flexible in this regard, you just need to know what you are doing

IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.

Last edited by HDfury; 10-10-2017 at 10:59 AM.
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post #4528 of 4561 Old 10-10-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
There is some for sure in the EDID download package but you first need to determine if you are looking for 4K24 HDR within 300MHz or up to 600MHz
Said otherwise, are you targeting 4K24 4:2:2 12b BT2020 HDR or 4K24 4:4:4 10/12b BT2020 HDR ?

You can make custom EDID using free software, many are excellent, like AWE.
now for user without special knowledge on EDID making, if you have Integral and another device able to hold some custom edid (like Linker/Vertex for ex), you can load a custom HDR on one device connected at integral output, you can add HDR flag to integral automix and then you can save the file using Integral GUI and you will have that same EDID with the HDR datablock added.

You can also do that using some equipment. like you have TV EDID and want to add full hdmi sound, just connect integral output to TV, add FULL AUDIO flag for automix and save the bin file (which you can then load and use as custom, without having the display connected at output anymore)

Our devices are very flexible in this regard, you just need to know what you are doing
When I first checked the EDID download zip, I did not find any Integral EDID for 4K24 that mentioned HDR and BT.2020 either. But there are some in folder: Older revision EDID\Special.

CJ
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post #4529 of 4561 Old 10-10-2017, 10:46 AM
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Thanks for the help, I will look again in that folder.
I am looking for one within a 300 MHz limit.


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post #4530 of 4561 Old 10-10-2017, 10:57 AM
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Thanks for the help, I will look again in that folder.
I am looking for one within a 300 MHz limit.


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If that's what you need then Claw direction is right, you will find it in EDID collection > Older revision EDID > Special
There is a few of it, with full sound, without full sound, with HDR, without HDR, etc...
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IMPORTANT: Due to recent discoveries, we are working on a new way to handle Dolby Vision, in the meantime please use AUTOMIX/SINK mode for DV support.
Do not use DV forced flags on Integral, it cannot work with all DV equipment, simply use automix with max video algo and you will be fine until we push new updates out.
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