New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 1312 Old 10-17-2015, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

Lumagen is developing the new
The Radiance Pro Series

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php...ncepro_details

Should be very interesting! As always Lumagen puts out an excellent product with even better support!

18 HDMI ports? Really?!!
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post #2 of 1312 Old 10-17-2015, 11:30 AM
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While i think the Lumagens are great products, i wish the prices would be more reasonable and the GUI more intuitive...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #3 of 1312 Old 10-18-2015, 12:19 PM
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They are in beta now. You can contact them for a price on the Pro line. If you can afford them, go for it.


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post #4 of 1312 Old 10-18-2015, 04:27 PM
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The highest model pictured on the webpage has a 8x7 matrix switch built in. 8 hdmi inputs, 7 zone hdmi outputs, zone 1 has 4 hdmi outputs in parallel for a total of 18 hdmi ports. All inputs and outputs are 4k60 capable.

You can sign up for the beta program and receive a significant discount. I can't discuss much about the new pro as it's still confidental under beta agreement but I can say it is a product you can use for a decade or more. It's hardware is partially modular and all functions are run on its large fpga which can be software updated as new technologies are introduced.
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post #5 of 1312 Old 10-19-2015, 08:36 AM
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Note that (at least as of 3-5 months ago) the HDMI daughter cards only support 10gbps and not the full 18gbps per a public post from JimP -- thus AFAIK you'll need to upgrade those to support full UHD like 10-bit 4K with HDR under HDCP 2.2 as that requires more than 10gbps bandwidth -- so not just a one time purchase at this point.
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post #6 of 1312 Old 10-19-2015, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
Note that (at least as of 3-5 months ago) the HDMI daughter cards only support 10gbps and not the full 18gbps per a public post from JimP -- thus AFAIK you'll need to upgrade those to support full UHD like 10-bit 4K with HDR under HDCP 2.2 as that requires more than 10gbps bandwidth -- so not just a one time purchase at this point.
10 bit 4k with hdr is within 10Gbs for 4K24Hz material. As has been mentioned...the unit is modular...can't' say much more but i really don't think this will be a high cost update like it was moving from XD to XE.....
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post #7 of 1312 Old 10-29-2015, 01:55 PM
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We are releasing our Beta users from NDA to discuss the technical aspects of the Radiance Pro. So you should start to see some posts here and on the Lumagen forum about day to day living with the Radiance Pro.

We are excited to have now released the first per-pixel deinterlacing for the Radiance Pro. It does not yet have a diagonal filter but for 1080i video it is looking very good (IMO).

Switching with the Radiance Pro is much faster than the earlier Radiance models. This is because there is no GF9450 deinterlacing chip to have to setup and wait for.

We are also hearing from Pro owners that the quality is already a step above the older Radiance models.

The Radiance Pro hardware is believed to be at Production Level. Of course software is still in Beta. There is a lot working but we have a number of features still to implement. We are seeing the Radiance Pro installed into non-tech user's homes for use on a daily basis.

I am sure the Beta owners will have their own comments on the Pro so I will let them post if they like. Do also check out the Lumagen forum if you are interested in more information on the Radiance Pro. It is here: http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/

We also have information on the Radiance Pro on our website, and you can contact me at sales@lumagen.com. Finally I want to thank AVS Forum for their support, and point out that they are an authorized Lumagen dealer. If you are interested in the Radiance Pro or other Radiance model you can contact them for more information.
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post #8 of 1312 Old 10-29-2015, 06:46 PM
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Latest FW Updates:

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php...ncepro_updates

Beta 102115- Adds much improved deinterlacing for 480/576/1080i sources.
Update time ~5 minutes @230k from previous firmware


Beta 102215- Fix for a couple of issues in 102115 when using a deinterlaced source and selecting test patterns or performing a screen clear for menu displays. Please continue giving us your detailed feeback on issues via email at radiancepro_beta@lumagen.com .
Update time ~1 minutes @230k from previous firmware

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post #9 of 1312 Old 10-30-2015, 02:21 PM
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Question:

If I have a calibration done for my projector using my current Lumagen 2041, can that calibration info be transferred on to Radiance Pro (if I purchase one in the future)? Or will I have to have another calibration done if I replace my 2041 with the Radiance Pro?

Also: Is the Radiance pro fully compatible with the specs for UHD? (E.g. the full specs for Blu-Ray UHD, broadcast UHD etc)?

Thanks.
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post #10 of 1312 Old 10-30-2015, 03:27 PM
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Rich

The Pro has a much larger LUT in it than the 2041 so you would benefit from having a recalibration done. If your calibrator used Lightspace for the job and had measured a very large patch set to create the lut in the first place it would be a trivial job to download that calibration profile in to a Pro. Right now it is not possible to rip an 2041 config and put it in a Pro as the architecture of the FPGA programming is not finalised so there is no config editor for it

Jim can answer your question about UHD BD but i can say that for the announced spe (of the discs)c i don't think there are any hardware issues. Firmware wise they have not implemented HDR or full 600Mpixel pipeline but it's all in the schedule. Really, the best bet is to give Jim a shout.....next time i'm over visiting the inlaws i'll try to come see you...not been over for a year and half but its got to be on the cards soon!

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post #11 of 1312 Old 10-30-2015, 03:48 PM
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Will this be the only Pro model or can we expect to see more models with less inputs/outputs?
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post #12 of 1312 Old 10-30-2015, 05:43 PM
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post #13 of 1312 Old 10-30-2015, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
Will this be the only Pro model or can we expect to see more models with less inputs/outputs?
3 configurations are available

Radiance 4440 - 2 input, 4 output
Radiance 4446 - 8 input, 4 output
Radiance 4449 - 8 input, 4 output, 6 additional unprocessed outputs (8x7 matrix)

I asked Jim about a possible 4K mini, he said the fpga alone on the pro models cost more than the entire cost of a 2020. So reducing i/o and form factor doesn't really result in significant price drop from a 4440. With this in mind, the 4440 configuration is as Radiance mini as it gets for a long time.

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post #14 of 1312 Old 10-30-2015, 09:49 PM
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I have the 4449 configuration with the built in 8x7 matrix switch. I plan to feed both my cable boxes into it and have one of the zone outputs to feed my living room TV. This way I can watch cable box 1 on main zone and cable 2 on zone 2. We never have more than 2 TVs on at a time(only 2 person family) but we have more than 2 TVs. Instead of putting a cable box, BD player and a streaming box to each room, we have all of them in main room into 4449. In other words, I only pay for 2 cable boxes but I can view them in anyroom with the matrix swtich.

Another benefit is I can enable Pip/Pop and watch 2 seperate TV channels on my main screen. A 4K screen can fit two 1080 channels without loss of resolution.

This is for not everyone's interest but always wanted to be abke to do this. For the first time I can compare the same film on different formats on the same screen simultaneously with pip/pop function. I.e. Fifth Element mastered from 4k blu-ray vs remastered edition bluray. Thanks to the 8x7 swtich, I am not tying up both my bluray players to main zone to do comparisons. I can always send one of its output to a different zone.


Note: pip/pop is currently not available but expected on a future update.
Note2: only zone 1 is processed (scaled, color management etc), other 6 zones are pass through only. A future uodate will allow Edid settings on zone 2-7.
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post #15 of 1312 Old 10-30-2015, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Question:

If I have a calibration done for my projector using my current Lumagen 2041, can that calibration info be transferred on to Radiance Pro (if I purchase one in the future)? Or will I have to have another calibration done if I replace my 2041 with the Radiance Pro?

Also: Is the Radiance pro fully compatible with the specs for UHD? (E.g. the full specs for Blu-Ray UHD, broadcast UHD etc)?

Thanks.
Gordon is correct there is not yet a config reader/writer for the Pro. This is actually pretty high on our priority list to get done. We are hoping the calibration from an earlier Radiance will be able to be downloaded in the Radiance Pro, but this has not been decided yet.

The Radiance Pro is compatible with UHD. At this time the I/O cards are HDMI 2.0, with HDCP 2.2, at 9 GHz. We will be adding an upgrade option for 18 GHz I/O in 2016.

The Radiance Pro hardware is compatible with HDR, P3 color space (a.k.a. DCI), and Rec 2020 color space. Just as we added 3D, and a 3D LUT, long after introduction of the Radiance processors, we can add these when the time comes. Right now there seem to be too many cooks in the kitchen for HDR. We are hoping HDR coalesces into a single open standard, but this is not clear yet.

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post #16 of 1312 Old 10-31-2015, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
If your calibrator used Lightspace for the job and had measured a very large patch set to create the lut in the first place it would be a trivial job to download that calibration profile in to a Pro.
Your CalMAN calibrator could do the same

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post #17 of 1312 Old 10-31-2015, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
Gordon is correct there is not yet a config reader/writer for the Pro. This is actually pretty high on our priority list to get done. We are hoping the calibration from an earlier Radiance will be able to be downloaded in the Radiance Pro, but this has not been decided yet.

The Radiance Pro is compatible with UHD. At this time the I/O cards are HDMI 2.0, with HDCP 2.2, at 9 GHz. We will be adding an upgrade option for 18 GHz I/O in 2016.

The Radiance Pro hardware is compatible with HDR, P3 color space (a.k.a. DCI), and Rec 2020 color space. Just as we added 3D, and a 3D LUT, long after introduction of the Radiance processors, we can add these when the time comes. Right now there seem to be too many cooks in the kitchen for HDR. We are hoping HDR coalesces into a single open standard, but this is not clear yet.
Ok, good info, thank you Jim. It seems at least theoretically a Lumagen Pro should be good for many years in terms of specs (?).
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post #18 of 1312 Old 10-31-2015, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
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Ok, good info, thank you Jim. It seems at least theoretically a Lumagen Pro should be good for many years in terms of specs (?).
We believe so.

We put the inputs on "Dual Input" modules, and the outputs on "Dual Output" modules, so that as HDMI evolves we plan to sell upgraded HDMI modules. The HDMI I/O modules plug into the Radiance Pro switch board. So upgrading would be straight forward. This allows you to keep the most expensive parts of the Radiance Pro (the processor board with the FPGA, the switch board, and the case) in place and replace just the I/O modules to get a new HDMI standard added (that requires a new hardware chip - most do not).

The Radiance Pro FPGA, while expensive, is much larger than previous FPGAs we have used and has the flexibility to adapt to reasonable changes in the standards such as HDR. So we expect most changes will be part of our software updates. Note we reserve the right to charge for software updates (as we did for 3D), in the future. There are no planned "fee based" updates at this time though.

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post #19 of 1312 Old 10-31-2015, 10:54 PM
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The prices are absolutely ludicrous $6,000.00 to $8,000.00 is more than the 4K display I'm purchasing.


One of the things that I would have loved with my present Lumagen 2143 was software that allowed me too make adjustments on my pc instead of having too plow through an at first confusing menu system, a system that I still struggle with at times.


Lumagen needs too build there own calibration software similar too CONTROLCal that allows one too make the adjustments without popping in and out of onscreen menus.


A $4000.00 to $6000.00 price range would have still been crazy, but possible.
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post #20 of 1312 Old 11-01-2015, 01:19 AM
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The Radiance Pro is compatible with UHD. At this time the I/O cards are HDMI 2.0, with HDCP 2.2, at 9 GHz. We will be adding an upgrade option for 18 GHz I/O in 2016.
UHD BD release seems to be postponed to early 2016 so the 18gHz timing is right on time.

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post #21 of 1312 Old 11-01-2015, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post
The prices are absolutely ludicrous $6,000.00 to $8,000.00 is more than the 4K display I'm purchasing.


One of the things that I would have loved with my present Lumagen 2143 was software that allowed me too make adjustments on my pc instead of having too plow through an at first confusing menu system, a system that I still struggle with at times.


Lumagen needs too build there own calibration software similar too CONTROLCal that allows one too make the adjustments without popping in and out of onscreen menus.


A $4000.00 to $6000.00 price range would have still been crazy, but possible.
Suggested retail is high but not unusual if you compare to prices of video processors in the early days of HD resolutions. In the early days of 4K, the hardware and development cost is just as high, especially for a niche product like radiance pro.

I use calman enthusiast, almost the entire calibration process is automated. Calman can access most of lumagen's functions via serial or usb port. Once the calibration is done and all memories are tweaked, there isn't much tinkering needed, I rarely use Lumagen's remote control other than power on/off and switch inputs.

I wouldn't be against a fancier menu and ip/web based control but I would rather have Lumagen dedicate their resources on perfecting the video output.
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post #22 of 1312 Old 11-03-2015, 08:00 AM
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Some comments from a beta Pro-tester

I was a bit’ backstage’ with beta testing, only until the latest release of Pro-updates became available last week. Indeed I was almost desperately waiting for a decent deinterlacing algorithm on the Pro to finally put my good old workhorse, the XE, aside and stay with the Pro connected. On the other hand, switching back and forth between the two allowed me to see differences though only with conventional SD/HD material. At this time I can't say much on UHD yet.
So thanks very much to Jim Peterson and Patrick for bringing us back to state-of-the-art deinterlacing technology in the Pro. In our region we still have numerous SD (576i) sources not yet replaced by HD stations. Most of them, however, come with video bit rates of 4-6 M/s where the old Gennum chip produced nearly true HD quality on the screen. That is to say, we are not yet through here with the SD era, and the well-known assets of the Lumagen-scaling and -deinterlacing are still more than warranted. So I hope Patrick will eventually finish the deinterlacer including the filters.
Having said this, here is a first strange but positive observation when running the new Pro-firmware (102215):
When previously watching film-to-video converted material (with the XE), be it in progressive (720p) or deinterlaced (576/1080i) mode, the following rather annoying situation was observed: When in a still scene motion would set in, the first few frames showed pronounced motion judder/blurr which would then within a fraction of a second settle to completely smooth motion. Always at the beginning of a moving object this type of initial judder was present. This phenomenon has disappeared on the Pro, and I have no idea why. I know that in the Pro Genlock is still inactive (off) and the deinterlacing features of e.g. frame interpolation are not yet implemented either. Yet, these (on the XE) had no influence on the observed judder. Is the absence of this to be attributed to the new deinterlacer in the Pro? Or is it a scaling effect?
Picture quality with 1080i (and 720p) is truly excellent, no question. Other than that I do spot the effects of the missing diagonal filter in 576i.
In the menu-function "LED control" one speaks of the green LED (on or off); my LED however is blue. This is only a trivial issue.
I haven’t tried all the functionalities in the Pro yet, but can say that the basic functions of the menu are all without fault (to be updated in case I spot something new to the contrary).
Thanks for staying with us. Good luck with your ongoing developing work.
Cheers,
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post #23 of 1312 Old 11-03-2015, 09:06 AM
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OK, guys, help me out, Jim just got back to me with pricing for a 4442, and well, now I've got a dilemma, and I'm hoping those of you who've been using the Pro can help me out.

First things first, my current setup consists of a Radiance XE 3D, Anthem AVM50V, Darbee, a JVC RS4910 and a Planar 8150 (along with my misc sources). I run all my sources to the XE, which splits with an HDMI run to my Anthem for audio and another to an HDMI splitter to the two projectors.

I've been really looking into what it will take to get me ready for UHD (UHD BD, Streaming, etc). Other than the obvious source and display, I'll need to do something about my AVM50V and/or Lumagen XE since neither can handle UHD.

So here's some of the thoughts bouncing around my head, Pros I've come up with for the new RadiancePro
  • Simplified HDMI setup, I could simply run HDMI directly from the Pro to my AVM50V, JVC and Planar, it would eliminate two "hops".
  • Per-source/resolution Darbee settings
  • Per source settings in general (I have some extra noise reduction for 720p on my DVR input).
  • LUT/Calibration for the JVC, or any future projector that likewise needs it.
  • Deinterlacing/etc of SD source, like MTT I've still got a good bit of SD source material that will never see the light of HD or UHD.
  • Price/timing - those under NDA will probably understand, but I expect this may be my only chance to be able to pick one of these up.
  • Top tear scaling, especially Vertical Stretch for anamorphic lens


But here are the, lets call it arguments against....
  • Price
  • Other than for the JVC, I really don't need the 3D LUT capabilities, and even there I could use the JVC autocal instead. It seems autocal is becoming more and more common on projectors.
  • It's getting harder and harder to find source devices that will pass video untouched to a downstream video processor. Most sources seem to not have auto resolution switching anymore, especially for streaming services.
  • Video processing overall is a lot better than it used to be.


What it sort of comes down to is this I guess. On the one hand, we're entering a time where quality scaling is going to be really important again, with UHD displays and a limited amount of UHD content, this argument makes me think I should really try to make it work to get a Pro, and some of the other upgrades I was thinking about can wait.

On the flip side, it's becoming harder and harder to find sources that "cooperate" with external scalers (ie let them do all the work), pretty much everything automatically outputs 1080p these days, so in that vein it makes less sense to spend a bunch of money on something that's effectively bypassed by poor sources. So on this argument, it seems like maybe I should just abandon a Lumagen all together....

Maybe step one is to pull my XE out of the loop for a while and see if I can go back. I remember thinking it added a refinement/solidity to the image when I got it, but maybe that was preconception/placebo....
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post #24 of 1312 Old 11-03-2015, 02:27 PM
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2016 ?

Manufacturer's seem to be keeping their newer products closely guarded under wraps, and, I assume, until presented at CES 2016.
I can see TV sets moving in the direction of the projectors, in that the calibration patterns will be created by the calibration software, and TVs will be directly calibrated after having updated to 21 Point Grayscale, a separate calibration for HDR, and possibly 3D LUTs - all built in. In fact, there's a auto calibration also being built in with a pull out Meter. I can for see a lot of changes coming in 2016! In what directions - ?
It keeps consumers, vendors and manufacturers, all wishing for an all knowing psychic who can see the future.
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post #25 of 1312 Old 11-03-2015, 06:54 PM
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Latest FW updates

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php...ncepro_updates

Beta 103015- Adds fan speed settings in menu under "Other : Fan control" and the normal fan speed is quieter---the low setting is quieter still. Fix for some rarely used output modes with pixel clocks greater than 160mhz that are not 4k modes (.ie 1080p72). The output copy menu was added back in. Please continue giving us your detailed feedback on issues via email at radiancepro_beta@lumagen.com .
Update time ~5 minutes @230k from previous firmware

Beta 102715- Fix for matrix switch issue (outs 5-10) not turning on with last selected sources. Added option capability for external triggers and 3D eyeglass output.
Update time ~5 minutes @230k from previous firmware

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post #26 of 1312 Old 11-04-2015, 10:49 AM
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stranger89.

please take what i say with the knowledge i am the EU distributor for lumagen. I am also a very experienced calibrator. The auto cal in a JVC projector will not get you anywhere close to the level of accuracy you would have if you used professional calibration software for 3dLUT generation plus the Pro. Also, even though i have no experience of your planar display i would find it unlikely it would not benefit from a LUT based calibration. Even the most expensive displays that are very linear in operation and that are used in post production houses require accurate calibration and usually LUT based.

The Pro is an expensive bit of kit for sure...but think anout this. Your XE is probably 8yrs old. How many 8yr old pieces of electronics still get firmware updates to add features or performance to them....the image quality improvements on XE from when they come out to today are significant. It's early days for the Pro architecture but i envisage it will be getting improvements and enhancements that will benefit any system it is put in to for many years to come.

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post #27 of 1312 Old 11-04-2015, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
stranger89.

please take what i say with the knowledge i am the EU distributor for lumagen. I am also a very experienced calibrator. The auto cal in a JVC projector will not get you anywhere close to the level of accuracy you would have if you used professional calibration software for 3dLUT generation plus the Pro. Also, even though i have no experience of your planar display i would find it unlikely it would not benefit from a LUT based calibration. Even the most expensive displays that are very linear in operation and that are used in post production houses require accurate calibration and usually LUT based.

The Pro is an expensive bit of kit for sure...but think anout this. Your XE is probably 8yrs old. How many 8yr old pieces of electronics still get firmware updates to add features or performance to them....the image quality improvements on XE from when they come out to today are significant. It's early days for the Pro architecture but i envisage it will be getting improvements and enhancements that will benefit any system it is put in to for many years to come.
My XS-3D and XE-3D are both working great (Once I put the XE-3D out of the line of fire for the Samsung TV Remote when calibrating.) But, their days are numbered. The Pro is still in Beta, as pretty everything today, in that the architects of the Standards, are back at it again arguing as to final specs. This therefore, leaves manufactures at a cross road as to what direction to take. Add to this a complete turn over in technology on both the Audio and Video sides of the coin. Competition can be great at times, but stressful! I think this in turn is turning us, the consumer, into couch potatoes, in that we're just going to be happy with what we have, and wait it out. Doesn't help the sales sides of things!
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post #28 of 1312 Old 11-04-2015, 12:50 PM
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One thing I will ask, how is the deinterlacing on the Pro vs the XE? Pretty much all the source material I've got that is still 480i is TV shows that are very challenging to deinterlace, even my XE has trouble, some special software on my PC can actually best it, all be it it's offline processing.

Other than that, thanks guys, I had started a long "rebuttal", but well, I don't disagree with anything you guys have said, and I don't want to turn this into an argument about the Pro. Sadly I think what it really comes down to, is I just can't justify jumping in now. I really want to, because I know you guys/Lumagen build a great product, I'm sure the Pro will be a spectacular piece, and right now is probably the best deal I'll ever see on a Pro, but it's just too much, especially when I look at my XE and how "little" I really take advantage of it. Only one of my sources can output untouched video, my DVR, and if I ever upgrade that will probably go away and all my sources will just output 1080p at that point. I'll probably hang onto my XE, though I'm not sure what I'll do once I upgrade to an AVM60 next year.
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post #29 of 1312 Old 11-04-2015, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
One thing I will ask, how is the deinterlacing on the Pro vs the XE? Pretty much all the source material I've got that is still 480i is TV shows that are very challenging to deinterlace, even my XE has trouble, some special software on my PC can actually best it, all be it it's offline processing.

Other than that, thanks guys, I had started a long "rebuttal", but well, I don't disagree with anything you guys have said, and I don't want to turn this into an argument about the Pro. Sadly I think what it really comes down to, is I just can't justify jumping in now. I really want to, because I know you guys/Lumagen build a great product, I'm sure the Pro will be a spectacular piece, and right now is probably the best deal I'll ever see on a Pro, but it's just too much, especially when I look at my XE and how "little" I really take advantage of it. Only one of my sources can output untouched video, my DVR, and if I ever upgrade that will probably go away and all my sources will just output 1080p at that point. I'll probably hang onto my XE, though I'm not sure what I'll do once I upgrade to an AVM60 next year.
The de-interlacing in the Pro seems to be very good for 1080i so far. I've not been looking at any SD myself so can't comment. Whereas the VXP chip occassionaly combs the new Pro de-interlacing doesn't comb at all from what ive seen. This version is just their first attempt though so i expect better results at some point..but it's not bad already.

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post #30 of 1312 Old 11-04-2015, 07:23 PM
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For me, no ringing scaling alone is enough reason to own the pro( or any Lumagen product ). It transforms the picture into almost CRT like. On a smaller screen, this might be a disadvantage because ringing makes the image appear sharper. On a large screen, ringing and amplified mosquito noise is unbearable. Lumagen has none of those, nill, zero!

As Gordon said, even the old XE units are still not badly outdated, they still get updates. The new architecture is all software, this means it can evolve to a much larger degree. For example, gennum vxp chip had issues with wierd anime cadences for deinterlacing, this was a hardware limitation, Lumagen couldn't help it. Another example, gennum Vxp had no real forced film mode, even in film mode, the chip would occasionally drop to video mode deinterlacing. This is another hardware limitation. Fortunately Lumagen solved this bypassing gennum VXP and using their own forced film mode deinterlacing. With the new fpga based architecture, no such thing as hardware limitation(in the previous example's sense), if enough people complain about wierd anime cadences, Lumagen will rewrite the code to handle it. This is a great ability. You will never get this from your TV or projector manufacturer. They will stick the product with their initial deinterlacing algorithm and it ends there.

As stanher said, most sources are 1080p60 fixed nowadays but with genlock and inverse telecine, Lumagen is able to convert it back to 1080p24 without any tears. And for getting near native output, you have to research media players. I use a Tivo roamio pro box which can output netflix, hulu, vudu in native resolutions. Tivo bolt can do netflix 4k too.

I have my oppo set to source direct and tivo roamio pro (for cable tv) set to source direct. I get dvd, bd, netflix, hulu, vudu and youtube in native resolutions into Lumagen this way.
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