Has anyone seen the Lumagen Vision or Vision Pro? - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 230 Old 06-02-2003, 02:10 AM
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Quick question:

If I was setting up the Vision to watch a 1.66 AR film on a 16:9 screen, what would the configuration settings be? I.e., AFAIK most (all?) 1.66 AR films aren't anamorphic, so if you use the LTRBOX setting (which is basically what it is), you'll lose image off the top and bottom (since the LTRBOX setting scales up what it assumes to be 1.78 material).

OTOH, if you use the 4:3 setting, you'll have sidebars AND black bars on the top and bottom. I guess that means you'd just use the standard 16:9 setting, which would display full width, with some letterboxing bars above and below.

I think I just answered my own question, so how about this one?

If you were displaying a 2.35 AR anamorphic film, what would the difference be between the normal method of saying you had a 16:9 screen (1.78 output AR), at 720p; versus lying and saying you had a 2.35 AR screen, at 540p?

The same number of scan lines would be used for the active image in each case, but the later would use only 75% of the bandwidth to the PJ, and would also allow the Vision to generate 33% more samples on each horizontal scan line. Sounds like a win-win situation, with the proviso that you'd need to set up and align another memory on your PJ.

Would you need to adjust any of the settings on the input side?

- Tim

- Tim
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post #212 of 230 Old 06-03-2003, 07:56 AM
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Boy, do I feel stupid. I wrote:

> I guess that means you'd just use the standard 16:9 setting, which would display full width, with some letterboxing bars above and below. <

That's obviously wrong. With that setting, it would come out squashed and wide. That's what I get for posting at 4am, when I should be sleeping. :eek: The correct answer is (d) None of the above. I.e., none of the stock settings will properly and optimally display 1.66 films, though the LTRBOX setting will come close, clipping off just 12 scan lines from each of the top and bottom. I.e., 1.66 AR is like a taller version of a non-anamorphic 1.78 disc, with 24 more scan lines (384 vs. 360).

To optimally display it using the full screen height would require custom settings, with about 3% window-boxing on each side (which unlike most scalers, the Lumagens can handle with no problem).

- Tim

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post #213 of 230 Old 06-03-2003, 11:51 AM
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The Lumagen also has zooming, I think, in 5% increments.

Adjust the TV aspect ratio first, then set the DVD player aspect ratio to 16:9.

Declare the Lumagen's output aspect ratio (in its menu) to be that of the "raster" as seen on your screen (the actual raster seen on the screen if the TV is CRT based).

Push the 4:3 button on the Lumagen remote.

Play the 1.66:1 DVD.

Use the zoom to get the picture to fit as best as you can.

Some of the older Lumagen units don't have zoom increment as fine as 5%, I forget whether a service menu change is available to make the increment 5%.

Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/review4.htm

Remember when lines and logos burned the TV screen? I was at a concert where a musical selection made extremely heavy use of about four of the keys of the piano.
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post #214 of 230 Old 06-03-2003, 01:50 PM
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Hi, to toggle between 5% or 15% zoom steps press "menu",0,9,2,3. This feature was added Feb 4 and would be present in all units purchased since.

-Patrick

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post #215 of 230 Old 06-03-2003, 02:06 PM
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So before Feb 4, is that possible to upgrade via software ? or have to flash something ?

Thanks
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post #216 of 230 Old 06-03-2003, 04:13 PM
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Hi, there are only a handful of units pre Feb 4. They can be upgraded. If Vision users are interested in an update they should call or email us to arrange it. The VisionPro can be updated more easily by connecting its serial port up with a users PC and running our update utility software.

-Patrick

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post #217 of 230 Old 06-04-2003, 01:30 PM
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Hi Patrick,

I just spent the last hour or so reading all 200+ posts in this topic. Wonderful product I must say. I plan to purchase this scaler as soon as possible. My main purpose is to scale C-band analog and digital (4dtv/MPEG-DVB) to either 720p or 1080i on my monitor. I have a JVC professional 4:3 monitor that can naitively input 480p, 720p or 1080i as well as 480i. The monitor also has a 16:9 mode that displays with black bars at top an bottom.

So here is my question. I also have other sources going into the monitor's coponent inputs such as a DVD progressive, Sony HD200 (Directv and OTA HD), and a Motorola HDD200 for C-band HD. The HD sources from the Sony HD200 such as HD-Net and the progressive DVD player show blanking at the top of the picture (remember this is a 4:3 set showing bars at top and bottom). If I pass through the 1080i or 480p signals that have blanking, is there a way to crop some lines from the top of the picture to eliminate the blanking using either the output size/position or input sizing controls?

Thanks again for the fabulous customer support evidenced in your responses within this topic.

Joe
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post #218 of 230 Old 06-04-2003, 02:45 PM
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Hi Joe, the HD passthru inputs on either the Vision & VisionPro only provide for modifying H & V sync polarity (for rgbhv if you have a mismatch between source and display) other than that the signal can not be sized or modified.

Patrick

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post #219 of 230 Old 06-04-2003, 02:55 PM
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Hi Patrick,

Thanks for the quick reply! Not a deal breaker since I should be able to eliminate the blanking if I use the DVD's 480i component out into the Vision scaler instead of using the 480p output in my DVD player. I just would have to live with the thin blanking lines on top of the 1080i Directv sources from my Sony HD200.

Another quick question. Can the input source be saved after power loss? Since most of my input from sat will be S-video, I would like to start on input #2 without having to switch it on the remote each time the unit is turned on. Actually I don't have a problem with that but I want to make this wife-proof :)

thanks,

Joe
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post #220 of 230 Old 06-04-2003, 03:35 PM
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Joe, yes when you perform a save it remembers your current input and on power up it will switch to it. It also has an auto power-on feature that when enabled will turn itself on when power is applied rather than having to press power on the remote---so with the most common input saved and the auto power-on enabled your wife won't have to mess with it much at all.

Patrick

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post #221 of 230 Old 09-11-2003, 04:10 PM
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I must report that the Lumagen Vision is a gem. I just received mine, and it's a keeper. It makes my four-year-old HD RPTV look brand new.

I have a first generation Mitsubishi WS65903 HD RPTV from 1999. I have been using it with a CrystalScan VS2.0 for a few years. The CrystalScan does great with scaling, but many of the artifacts such as banding (probably from the 8-bit DAC) have been driving me nuts.

I tried a CS-HD for a week. It did OK. It definitely didn't have the CrystalScan's digitization artifacts, but the scaling is just so so. It also only supports my set at 1080i. The CS-HD has no 540p RGB output. I also had problems with the progressive component inputs intermittently not recognizing the signal from my Sony DVD. While progressive component isn't all that important for my setup, I didn't like that it didn't work some of the time on the same material.

The Lumagen Vision however is another story. It works just great. The picture is just beautiful. Vivid and dimensional. There's no banding.
Colors are more natural and stable. There's less blooming. It passes all my torture tests with flying colors.

The Vision is much better at dealing with changes in overall scene brightness than the other processors. For example there are scenes in Shawshank Redemption where the characters are talking in the prison yard that drive the other processors nuts. I don't really understand why the processor would have such an result. I I had thought this was a defect in the design of the set. But boy am I happy with the results with the Vision.

The flexibility of the system is another big win for me. I have a large collection of letterboxed (non-anamorphic), subtitled movies. It looks like the Lumagen Vision has the flexibility to memorize a setting to allow a zoomed view of the letterbox but repositioned so the subtitles are still visible on a widescreen set. Some of the other processors can zoom and reposition the letterbox, but they usually require changing the global settings for screen position.

Torture tests: Shawshank Redemption, High and Low, Stop Making Sense, Run Lola Run etc.

I'm wondering if there's any advise for calibrating. The Vision is being used to pass through HD and DirecTV signal from an RCA-DTC100. So the built-in controls on set have to be adjusted for the passed through signal from the RCA. This is difficult since I have no calibration reference for that input. DirecTV seems to be all over the map. SD and HD signals look completely different. I tend to try and make the HD signals from HBO and OTA DTV look good just by eyeball. Then I try to adjust the video processor on top of that using the original Video Essentials DVD.

After doing all the tests I usually end up adjusting the processor's picture using the video processor by eye to make it look "good". But this is a difficult, multi-parametric procedure with lots of interdependencies. How do other people do this?
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post #222 of 230 Old 09-11-2003, 05:55 PM
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Richard, how do you feel about the Vision and your DirecTV channels? It is these channels that I have the most issues with and would do anything to improve them. I am watching them on a 2002 Mitsubishi 73909 and some of the programming is absolutely horrid when blown up to 73". I would love your thoughts.

Go Noles
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post #223 of 230 Old 09-11-2003, 11:43 PM
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I have to admit I haven't tried DirecTV through the Vision yet. It's currently setup just to pass through. My DirecTV outputs a 1080i HD-compatible VGA signal. (Maybe 540p too?)

I have occasionally run the S-Video out from the DirecTV through the CrystalScan VS2, mostly for letterboxed non-HD films, to scale them up to full screen. The CrystalScan scaler would do a pretty good job of that. So I imagine the Vision will too. But you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Too much DirecTV material is just too poorly encoded, especially when viewed on a big screen.

I'll give it a try and report back.
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post #224 of 230 Old 09-12-2003, 01:40 AM
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I would like to add my thoughts about Lumagen Vision

1) A lot of features that makes this scaler suits your video device
2) Performance is one of the best I have ever tested from color to filmlike quality
3) Very easy to use after you know the codes
4) Last but not least a great price what is affordable for most end users

There are alot of great things about this product I wish I could go into more detail. After two weeks of using this product and showing many of my friends that are interested in video quality they too are very impressed. Still today I am learning more things about this unit and will post again in much more detail of how great this unit is.

I understand many people may think I am like a salesman for Lumagen (which I am) but my point is there are many scalers out there and this unit should be one worth a shot at.

If you are one of the people who is interested in this product and would like a demo please let me know. I could bring it by to show you.

Bill
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post #225 of 230 Old 09-12-2003, 06:33 PM
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I like the Vision but it only has one output. Is it possible to get a second output? (one for my monitor and one for my projector)

Richard
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post #226 of 230 Old 09-12-2003, 10:38 PM
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Richard,

Not that difficult to accomplish. Just get a distribution amp. There are plenty of inexpensive ones out there. I think Key Digital has a transcoder (I think the one with YPbPr->RGBHV) with two outputs that might work for you.

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
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post #227 of 230 Old 09-16-2003, 12:14 PM
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I wrote a review of the Lumagen over here.

http://www.***************.com/html/...iew.php?rev=19

If you don't have the latest firmware 081103, I recommend you download and install it. I found some problems during the review which were corrected. There should be a new update soon that myself and a few others have been testing that will contain some fixes along with a psuedo gen-lock for 1080i.

Bill

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post #228 of 230 Old 09-16-2003, 10:51 PM
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Bill,

what's a "pseudo gen-lock for 1080i"? Thanks.

- Tim

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post #229 of 230 Old 09-16-2003, 11:06 PM
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Hi, it's not a pseudo genlock. It's real and not just for 1080i, works for almost any mode. Since it wasn't originally designed to genlock we had to make some compromises so when genlock is enabled the timings are slightly modified from the SMPTE standard-- so that may be what he meant by pseudo. The new update should be on our website within a couple of days now.

Patrick

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post #230 of 230 Old 09-16-2003, 11:14 PM
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VideoGrabber,

As Patrick stated, it works just fine but it is not the optimum solution (i.e. slightly from SMPTE standards). I have been testing it and haven't run into scaling issues on my Hitachi TWX20B.

Maybe Patrick will explain all the technical info to me one day. :confused:

Bill

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