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post #1 of 1712 Old 07-13-2016, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Arrow HDfury Linker

No more boundaries in HDMI | Pre-Order the A/V gear that link them all!

HDfury Linker is a 4K60 4:4:4 600MHz 18Gbps HDMI2.0a Level A capable scaler built for system integrators and advanced users that will please everyone else as well.
By supporting the max bandwidth and data transfer rate of the HDMI2.0a standard and by offering new scaling modes, options and possibilities to convert and always fed optimum signal through all existing HDMI and HDCP revision, Linker is set to cross all HDMI boundaries.

Linker is capable of connecting any HDMI/HDCP revision sources devices to any HDMI/HDCP revision sink devices @ their best capabilities. GUARANTEED!



If you ever saw the following statement: “this TV does not support HDCP 2.2. Make sure you have HDCP 2.2 capable TV” or a similar HDCP error message, and even if you fixed such issue with Integral or others but run into limitations like signal unsupported, blackscreen, not getting the best signal to your display from all your sources or no AVR audio available when 4K signal is running or any others, make sure you never see any of them again with the HDfury Linker! Featuring 2 inputs and 1 output, HDfury Linker can act as Scaler, Switcher, Infoframe and HDR metadata Injector and Extractor with Sound, HDCP Doctor, HDMI Doctor, EDID management and more… Discover the tomorrow’s hardware today!

HDfury Linker Key Features

Ultra Scaling up to 4K60 4:4:4 600MHz

HDfury Linker offers impressive scaling modes to ensure that any HDMI/HDCP revision sink device get fed at its max capabilities ALWAYS and GUARANTEED.
Featuring Upscale, Downscale, Passthru and Bypass mode as well as Chroma Conversion and Color Depth modification on the fly at 8, 10, 12 and 16bit for FHD, UHD and DCI 4096x2160p.

Here is, among plenty others, some of the available scaling modes…

HDCP/HDMI2.x HDR/BT2020 sources input > To High-End Advanced HDCP/HDMI 1.x Displays
4K24/25/30 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 12b 450MHz > 1080p24/25/30 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 12b 111MHz
4K50/60 YCC 4:2:0 10b 371MHz > 1080p50/60 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 10b 185MHz
4K24/25/30 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 12b 450MHz > 4K24/25/30 YCC 4:2:0 12b 222MHz

HDCP/HDMI2.x HDR/BT2020 sources input > to basic HDCP/HDMI 1.x Equipment like AV receiver
4K50/60 YCC 4:2:0 10b 371MHz > 1080p50/60 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 8b 148MHz
4K24/25/30 YCC RGB/YCC 4:4:4 12b 450MHz > 1080p24/25/30 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 8b 74.25MHz
4K50/60 RGB/YCC 4:4:4/4:2:2 8b 600MHz > 1080p50/60 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 8b 148MHz

HDCP/HDM1.x Capable Sources input > to Advanced HDCP/HDMI 2.x Capable Sink
4K24/25/30 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 8b 300MHz > 4K24/25/30 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 16b 600MHz*
1080p24/25/30 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 16b 148MHz > 4K24/25/30 RGB/YCC 4:4:4 16b 600MHz*
This is only a small excerpt, endless scaling possibilities are available, the Ultra Scaling modes list is now so big that we had to publish it separately: here
* Tested ok on LG OLED 2016

Dedicated HDCP Doctor

Providing a total of 4 HDCP 1.4 and 2.2 engines for decryption/encryption, HDfury Linker offers a workaround for HDCP issue including HDCP 2.2 > HDCP 1.4 and HDCP 1.4 > HDCP 2.2 both ways conversion within the same unit.
Each RX block decrypts the input first whether its 1.x or 2.x. Then output port can individually encrypts it to 1.4 or 2.2 or not encrypt it at all if it was not encrypted initially.
Unlike HDfury Integral that can convert any signals within the 600MHz bandwidth of HDMI2.0a, thus including 1080i, 3D signals, PC signals and all SD/HD/FHD/UHD standard formats, HDfury Linker only support HDCP conversion for SD/HD/FHD/UHD signals up to 600MHz.
1080i, 3D signals, PC signals (except a few manually added) cannot be HDCP converted with the HDfury Linker, they go through in Bypass mode (untouched/untouchable).

Display HDCP 2.2 Content with Non-HDCP2.2 Compliant Devices

HDCP 2.2 is the new copy-protection scheme for 4K UHD content.Not only it is not backward compatible but many recent 4K devices don’t even support it.
Source devices, including media servers and head-ends like Netflix, will encode their 4K content with this new scheme. TVs must be HDCP 2.2-enabled to play it, and everything in the video chain including switches and receivers must be compliant as well, or the display will go dark and/or display a HDCP error message.
Bad news for consumers who have purchased expensive, high-bandwidth, processor-rich switchers, receivers and displays to accommodate 4K. While the newer products may support the bandwidth needs of 4K, they won’t play copy-protected works until HDfury Linker is an active part of the setup.

2×1 Switcher up to 4K60 4:4:4 600MHz 18Gbps

Switching between 2 inputs up to 4K60 4:4:4 600MHz signal and scaling through all HDMI levels and revision is now a reality, thanx to USB or push button, you can easily switch between 2 inputs that will be scaled to one output. HDCP conversion can be configured and applied on the fly in order to always output the type of HDCP signal encryption that your display or sink device is expecting.

HDR and Infoframe Metadata Live Injector and Extractor with Sound

The HDfury Linker is capable of injecting and extracting live Infoframe and HDR metadata at any resolution and in real time while keeping HDMI sound.
A further software solution for a complete real time handling of infoframe and HDR metadata will be available for the Linker: here from our exclusive licensed partner AV TOP.

Advanced EDID Management

Advanced EDID Management available from the HDfury Linker with either:
A Selected EDID bank, a Custom uploaded EDID, a Self generated Automix EDID or a Fixed basic EDID.
Sniff EDID from connected sink devices, Save, Edit, Load any custom EDID table at anytime.
Select and pick any EDID of your choice from a preloaded list of 25 EDID tables, it loads and reset HPD to present your chosen one automatically.
AutoMix EDID feature will create a custom EDID by mixing both sink EDID connected to the splitter output ports.
Mixing rules in AutoMix mode can be selected through 4 different algorithms.
Some EDID flags can be forced in Automix such as: Stereo/5.1/Full/YCbCr/BT2020/HDR/3D

Control and Update

USB GUI Utility via Windows PC and various physical buttons for configurations are available.
External Bluetooth dongle for iOS/Android control might be available in the future. (Not yet guaranteed, please revisit prior to launch)

Rec.709<->BT2020 via 3×3 Matrix and RGB Coeff

There is chance the 4K Linker will be able to convert 709<>BT2020, both ways, in the near future but it’s not yet a guaranteed feature. Work in progress. (update, first control already available in GUI/FW 0.8)
Attached Thumbnails
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HDCP Error? Blackscreen? No Audio? No Problem with HDfury!

4K Integral - User Manual PDF - iOS APP - Android APP
4K Linker - User Manual PDF - Scaling Modes - iOS APP - Android APP
GoBlue - Extend BT range and Add IR/BT support to Linker, Integral and upcoming.
Integral vs Linker - 18Gbps/600MHz HDMI cables that always work.

Last edited by HDfury; 07-29-2016 at 06:50 PM. Reason: UPDATE: Latest GUI/FW 0.8 screenshots available/updated.
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post #2 of 1712 Old 07-13-2016, 09:55 AM
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Looks great, I've got one on order (cheaper than swapping my Samsung for a Panasonic UHD BD player).

What about ST.2084->Rec.709/Gamma? Is that possible?

Oh, and don't forget about us High DPI display users for the GUI

Also, I've already got an Integral, if I don't need the matrix switching, and I don't use PC modes, and don't have any HDCP 2.2 interlaced sources, would the recommended setup be to just swap the Integral for the Linker?

Keep up the great work!
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post #3 of 1712 Old 07-13-2016, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Rec.709<->BT2020 via 3×3 Matrix and RGB Coeff

There is chance the 4K Linker will be able to convert 709<>BT2020, both ways, in the near future but it’s not yet a guaranteed feature. Work in progress.
I presume that we will be able to target other primaries (e.g., P3) for conversion as well?

I assume using this matrix methodology alone will undersaturate the image as the rec709 portion of the BT2020 container will be likewise scaled down (however, I don't understand color space conversion). If this does cause significant undersaturation, is it possible to simply clip saturations beyond a chosen color space? E.g., translate BT2020 container to P3 container where all colors in BT2020 space below P3 remain in-tact (but saturation % translated to be relative to P3 primaries) and all beyond P3 primaries colors are simply clipped to maximum saturation along the colorspace frontier? I understand anything more complex would require LUTs. With this capability and if we assume most UHD content does not (significantly) extend beyond P3 then those of us with P3 container capable displays but no BT2020 container support can enjoy correct colors

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post #4 of 1712 Old 07-13-2016, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
I presume that we will be able to target other primaries (e.g., P3) for conversion as well?

I assume using this matrix methodology alone will undersaturate the image as the rec709 portion of the BT2020 container will be likewise scaled down (however, I don't understand color space conversion). If this does cause significant undersaturation, is it possible to simply clip saturations beyond a chosen color space? E.g., translate BT2020 container to P3 container where all colors in BT2020 space below P3 remain in-tact (but saturation % translated to be relative to P3 primaries) and all beyond P3 primaries colors are simply clipped to maximum saturation along the colorspace frontier? I understand anything more complex would require LUTs. With this capability and if we assume most UHD content does not (significantly) extend beyond P3 then those of us with P3 container capable displays but no BT2020 container support can enjoy correct colors
I agree with jjcook. This would probably help with the projector Epson EH-LS10000.
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post #5 of 1712 Old 07-13-2016, 05:13 PM
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My Sony VW1000 (non-upgraded) can handle 4k30 and 4k24 up to 10bits. I have the Integral, which allows me to view 4k30 and 4k24 (4:2:0, 8bits) from my ROKU 4. Unfortunately, the Integral does not allow me to view sources that require 4k60 (like Netflix). Can the Linker force the ROKU to output 4k60 and then scale the signal to the 4k30 the VW1000 can handle?
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post #6 of 1712 Old 07-13-2016, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Looks great, I've got one on order (cheaper than swapping my Samsung for a Panasonic UHD BD player).

What about ST.2084->Rec.709/Gamma? Is that possible?

Oh, and don't forget about us High DPI display users for the GUI

Also, I've already got an Integral, if I don't need the matrix switching, and I don't use PC modes, and don't have any HDCP 2.2 interlaced sources, would the recommended setup be to just swap the Integral for the Linker?

Keep up the great work!
For the color question, see below, it's too early (especially for me!)

- GUI : Yes, you will have a 200% version. or an updated version that work for all DPI. Currently, there is already a 200% version for testers.
- Swap Integral/Linker: if you don't need splitter/matrix, if you don't use PC modes, 3D or interlaced, and if you don't have one main 4K HDR signal to pass-through with a secondary output lowered (like for HDCP1.4 AVR integration in HDCP2.2 4K HDR setup as you would need a splitter anyway), if you don't care the android/iOS APP, IR support, sound input/output, etc... then yes you can just swap them

I would keep both in my toolbox for the simple reason that... we believe (and time will tell).. that this combo can solve most of the current and arising issues for any setup. (if we take away the 1080i max earlier HDMI revision +10 years ago, but still there we have solution with a third device)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
I presume that we will be able to target other primaries (e.g., P3) for conversion as well?

I assume using this matrix methodology alone will undersaturate the image as the rec709 portion of the BT2020 container will be likewise scaled down (however, I don't understand color space conversion). If this does cause significant undersaturation, is it possible to simply clip saturations beyond a chosen color space? E.g., translate BT2020 container to P3 container where all colors in BT2020 space below P3 remain in-tact (but saturation % translated to be relative to P3 primaries) and all beyond P3 primaries colors are simply clipped to maximum saturation along the colorspace frontier? I understand anything more complex would require LUTs. With this capability and if we assume most UHD content does not (significantly) extend beyond P3 then those of us with P3 container capable displays but no BT2020 container support can enjoy correct colors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
I agree with jjcook. This would probably help with the projector Epson EH-LS10000.
Ok i'll call this the colorist question
And i'll add stranger89 color question in my answer.

First as i said, it's too early for ME ! i'm not enough into all those questions yet to give you a firm answer and our guys don't want me to bother them currently

This being said, and what they told me on the subject (and i'll try to improve my personal knowledge on the subject in the coming weeks and months) is the following:

We cannot do 3Dlut with current hardware and it seems in the colorist world this is the ultimate conversion way. A thousand $ device will more likely always be needed for such operation until some years but who knows...
Actually even in our team, there is discussion as to whether or not, this or that way of doing will give different results in the viewing experience, some results when measured can appears different, but if the viewing experience is not really different, you are simply missing things that you cannot really see. Of course this could be wrong and viewing difference could be dramatically different.. once again ..time will tell... We cannot really judge that ourselves, at least not yet.

So, philosophy apart ... Gamma is a 1-d lut and we dont' have it. We have a 3x3 matrix that can do math in 12 or 14b and render up to 16b, but us, and our devs guys, we are "just" the tool and controls provider. Just like when we worked on Integral, we was contacted by several individuals and companies to bring a solution to HDR metadata mastering when we was nearly at final stage .. it was challenging but we did it. Same here, it all started with the idea of a simple dongle to downscale 4K HDR signal to 1080p for AVR integration (as i explained: here recently). Thanx or not to external issues on an Eve's night that blocked us for months earlier this year... The guys just kept coding modes and mastering the silicon, until they started to compile all of them in the engine. And now the dongle can do: that!. And there is about 25% possible modes missing in that list. Some pro-colorist near us told us that may be there is someway to do some conversion that include lot of math and that could potentially give something good (and then the endless discussion as to..can you see a difference in measurement or visually, etc...). As the tool provider, our work will be to provide to all the colorist experts out there, all possible options and expose all possible controls so the colorists can apply their math and calculations.

If there is some colorist expert here that have math and ideas for any conversion with 3x3 matrix with up to 16b rendering. They know how to contact us, we usually tend to add a request that make sense into the work via update.

That's where we are right now, so as you see... it's too early for the colorist question, may be just wait to see the first 3x3 matrix control in the GUI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcastle View Post
My Sony VW1000 (non-upgraded) can handle 4k30 and 4k24 up to 10bits. I have the Integral, which allows me to view 4k30 and 4k24 (4:2:0, 8bits) from my ROKU 4. Unfortunately, the Integral does not allow me to view sources that require 4k60 (like Netflix). Can the Linker force the ROKU to output 4k60 and then scale the signal to the 4k30 the VW1000 can handle?
4K60 > 4K30, is called Frame Rate Conversion and such tiny box cannot do that, because you need RAM in the design to do that, and that takes up some PCB space (that's for the technical)

Now about what you can do, you can upscale/pass/bypass/downscale (1080p<>2160p or DCI), change chroma (4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0), change color depth (8/10/12/16), and a few others (RGB <> YCC) and may be more to come (709<>2020)...

So using that and knowing that your display support 4K24/25/30 4:2:0 10b (i assume it's 4:2:0 as you said you are getting 4:2:0, if it's different let me know) and may be .. it can support also 1080p 4:4:4 12b ?

Here is some of the possible options:

I don't remember if ROKU4 can output 4K30 4:4:4 12b but i add the option anyway as if it was the case (i know, not for netflix)

INPUT 4K60 4:2:0 10b > OUTPUT 1080p60 4:4:4 10b. only option for netflix if display is 4K30 4:2:0 10b ma.
or
INPUT 4K30 4:4:4 12b > OUTPUT 4K30 4:2:0 10b, if source can output this standard hdr mode. (i do believe your display should support 4K30 4:2:0 12b as well, so you can also output this)
or
INPUT 4K30 4:4:4 12b > OUTPUT 1080p30 4:4:4 12b, if source can output this standard hdr mode.

HDCP Error? Blackscreen? No Audio? No Problem with HDfury!

4K Integral - User Manual PDF - iOS APP - Android APP
4K Linker - User Manual PDF - Scaling Modes - iOS APP - Android APP
GoBlue - Extend BT range and Add IR/BT support to Linker, Integral and upcoming.
Integral vs Linker - 18Gbps/600MHz HDMI cables that always work.

Last edited by HDfury; 07-14-2016 at 07:46 AM.
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post #7 of 1712 Old 07-14-2016, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
- GUI : Yes, you will have a 200% version. or an updated version that work for all DPI. Currently, there is already a 200% version for testers.
If figured, but thought I'd throw it out there

Quote:
- Swap Integral/Linker: if you don't need splitter/matrix, if you don't use PC modes, 3D or interlaced, and if you don't have one main 4K HDR signal to pass-through with a secondary output lowered (like for HDCP1.4 AVR integration in HDCP2.2 4K HDR setup as you would need a splitter anyway), if you don't care the android/iOS APP, IR support, sound input/output, etc... then yes you can just swap them
So here's my setup...

Projector: JVC RS4910, has HDMI 1.4 with 4K support, I believe this falls into the "advanced" HDMI 1.4 category on your website.
AVR: Anthem MRX1120: Full HDMI 2.0a
Sources:
  • Samsung UBD-K8500
  • Chromebox running Kodi
  • SageTV Extender (HD300)
  • Xbox One
  • Xbox 360

HDFury Integral
HDFury Linker (once they ship)
I've also got a Radiance XE in reserve.

Right now all the sources are fed to the MRX1120, and from there through the Integral to the JVC.

The Samsung is the problem child, wanting HDCP 2.2 and producing useless 4K (4k60 4:4:4 10b) modes which is why I have an Integral and ordered a Linker. The Samsung and Xbox One can do 3D, and the HD300 can do interlaced (1080i/480i).

Right now none are really used for 3D or Interlaced, but could be*.

My first thought was to just swap the Integral for the Linker, and be on my way. However will the Linker not even pass through 3D or interlaced?

I suppose I could put the linker between the Samsung and the MRX, and then just use the Xbox for the rare 3D BD.

Any other suggestions? I'd like to minimize input switching/complexity, ie I'd rather not run two HDMI's to my JVC, one with and one without the linker.

*Interlaced really isn't an issue, if I do enable interlaced output from my HD300, it will be fed into the Lumagen, and then on to the MRX.
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post #8 of 1712 Old 07-14-2016, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
If figured, but thought I'd throw it out there



So here's my setup...

Projector: JVC RS4910, has HDMI 1.4 with 4K support, I believe this falls into the "advanced" HDMI 1.4 category on your website.
AVR: Anthem MRX1120: Full HDMI 2.0a
Sources:
  • Samsung UBD-K8500
  • Chromebox running Kodi
  • SageTV Extender (HD300)
  • Xbox One
  • Xbox 360

HDFury Integral
HDFury Linker (once they ship)
I've also got a Radiance XE in reserve.

Right now all the sources are fed to the MRX1120, and from there through the Integral to the JVC.

The Samsung is the problem child, wanting HDCP 2.2 and producing useless 4K (4k60 4:4:4 10b) modes which is why I have an Integral and ordered a Linker. The Samsung and Xbox One can do 3D, and the HD300 can do interlaced (1080i/480i).

Right now none are really used for 3D or Interlaced, but could be*.

My first thought was to just swap the Integral for the Linker, and be on my way. However will the Linker not even pass through 3D or interlaced?

I suppose I could put the linker between the Samsung and the MRX, and then just use the Xbox for the rare 3D BD.

Any other suggestions? I'd like to minimize input switching/complexity, ie I'd rather not run two HDMI's to my JVC, one with and one without the linker.

*Interlaced really isn't an issue, if I do enable interlaced output from my HD300, it will be fed into the Lumagen, and then on to the MRX.
YES of course it will pass-through anything, including interlaced, 3D and pc signals > BYPASS MODE means PASSTHRU UNTOUCHED, so your 3D signals, interlaced, PC signals, ALL will passthrough LINKER, just they are untouched/untouchable, if you want to convert HDCP version on them, you need Integral.


There is 4 Main modes on Linker: BYPASS/PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE.
Linker can do HDCP conversion for PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE.

For each PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE you can also select CHROMA and COLOR DEPTH

For BYPASS mode (PC, 3D, Interlaced), they all PASSTHRU THE LINKER UNTOUCHED (means, not even HDCP conversion possible on those, but they go through untouched!)

Now is there some HDCP2.2 sources that output 3D, PC or Interlaced in your list, i'm not sure, but in case there is some, you might want to keep both Integral and Linker.

HDCP Error? Blackscreen? No Audio? No Problem with HDfury!

4K Integral - User Manual PDF - iOS APP - Android APP
4K Linker - User Manual PDF - Scaling Modes - iOS APP - Android APP
GoBlue - Extend BT range and Add IR/BT support to Linker, Integral and upcoming.
Integral vs Linker - 18Gbps/600MHz HDMI cables that always work.

Last edited by HDfury; 07-14-2016 at 06:15 AM.
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post #9 of 1712 Old 07-14-2016, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
YES of course it will pass-through anything, including interlaced, 3D and pc signals > BYPASS MODE means PASSTHRU UNTOUCHED, so your 3D signals, interlaced, PC signals, ALL will passthrough LINKER, just they are untouched/untouchable, if you want to convert HDCP version on them, you need Integral.
So just to confirm, the Linker will automatically switch to BYPASS formats it can't "handle", or it can be configured to BYPASS MODE for certain formats? Or does that require user intervention to switch it to BYPASS?
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post #10 of 1712 Old 07-14-2016, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
YES of course it will pass-through anything, including interlaced, 3D and pc signals > BYPASS MODE means PASSTHRU UNTOUCHED, so your 3D signals, interlaced, PC signals, ALL will passthrough LINKER, just they are untouched/untouchable, if you want to convert HDCP version on them, you need Integral.


There is 4 Main modes on Linker: BYPASS/PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE.
Linker can do HDCP conversion for PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE.

For each PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE you can also select CHROMA and COLOR DEPTH

For BYPASS mode (PC, 3D, Interlaced), they all PASSTHRU THE LINKER UNTOUCHED (means, not even HDCP conversion possible on those, but they go through untouched!)

Now is there some HDCP2.2 sources that output 3D, PC or Interlaced in your list, i'm not sure, but in case there is some, you might want to keep both Integral and Linker.
Do you manually have to switch to BYPASS mode when inputting a 3D/PC/interlaced signal or will the Linker automatically switch to BYPASS mode when it sees a signal that it can't convert? In other words, could I just leave the Linker in PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE mode all the time and would it auto-switch to/from BYPASS mode when receiving a 3D/PC/Interlaced signal?
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So just to confirm, the Linker will automatically switch to BYPASS formats it can't "handle", or it can be configured to BYPASS MODE for certain formats? Or does that require user intervention to switch it to BYPASS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Do you manually have to switch to BYPASS mode when inputting a 3D/PC/interlaced signal or will the Linker automatically switch to BYPASS mode when it sees a signal that it can't convert? In other words, could I just leave the Linker in PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE mode all the time and would it auto-switch to/from BYPASS mode when receiving a 3D/PC/Interlaced signal?
Yes of course guys, this is all automatic, you have nothing to do !!! basically, you set the Linker to do what you want for SD/HD/FHD and UHD signals, you decide if it must change/convert HDCP, PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE, change CHROMA, change color depth, etc.... and then when using it, if you ever send PC/3D or interlaced, it will bypass them automatically ! means what comes in, goes out, untouched and you still sit in your sofa
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Yes of course guys, this is all automatic, you have nothing to do !!! basically, you set the Linker to do what you want for SD/HD/FHD and UHD signals, you decide if it must change/convert HDCP, PASS/UPSCALE/DOWNSCALE, change CHROMA, change color depth, etc.... and then when using it, if you ever send PC/3D or interlaced, it will bypass them automatically ! means what comes in, goes out, untouched and you still sit in your sofa
Perfect!
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post #13 of 1712 Old 07-14-2016, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jcastle
My Sony VW1000 (non-upgraded) can handle 4k30 and 4k24 up to 10bits. I have the Integral, which allows me to view 4k30 and 4k24 (4:2:0, 8bits) from my ROKU 4. Unfortunately, the Integral does not allow me to view sources that require 4k60 (like Netflix). Can the Linker force the ROKU to output 4k60 and then scale the signal to the 4k30 the VW1000 can handle?
4K60 > 4K30, is called Frame Rate Conversion and such tiny box cannot do that, because you need RAM in the design to do that, and that takes up some PCB space (that's for the technical)

Now about what you can do, you can upscale/pass/bypass/downscale (1080p<>2160p or DCI), change chroma (4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0), change color depth (8/10/12/16), and a few others (RGB <> YCC) and may be more to come (709<>2020)...

So using that and knowing that your display support 4K24/25/30 4:2:0 10b (i assume it's 4:2:0 as you said you are getting 4:2:0, if it's different let me know) and may be .. it can support also 1080p 4:4:4 12b ?

Here is some of the possible options:

I don't remember if ROKU4 can output 4K30 4:4:4 12b but i add the option anyway as if it was the case (i know, not for netflix)

INPUT 4K60 4:2:0 10b > OUTPUT 1080p60 4:4:4 10b. only option for netflix if display is 4K30 4:2:0 10b ma.
or
INPUT 4K30 4:4:4 12b > OUTPUT 4K30 4:2:0 10b, if source can output this standard hdr mode. (i do believe your display should support 4K30 4:2:0 12b as well, so you can also output this)
or
INPUT 4K30 4:4:4 12b > OUTPUT 1080p30 4:4:4 12b, if source can output this standard hdr mode.
Or you could replace your Roku 4 with a player that has a Netflix App that properly outputs 4K/24 instead of 4K/60. Such as the Samsung UHD player.

That's what I did. I returned my Roku 4 because of the Netflix bug with the player where it can't properly stream 4K/24.

CJ

Last edited by claw; 07-14-2016 at 10:01 AM.
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post #14 of 1712 Old 07-14-2016, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Or you could replace your Roku 4 with a player that has a Netflix App that properly outputs 4K/24 instead of 4K/60. Such as the Samsung UHD player.

That's what I did. I returned my Roku 4 because of the Netflix bug with the player where it can't properly stream 4K/24.
Yes of course, you can change source, but still be careful with netflix team, it's a known fact that netflix is forcing 4K60 via update on all platform... for stupid reason.
There is chance that after a firmware update on K8500 , your netflix 4K30 will be gone ! (it happened to Shield users, but at least there, for the moment, there is a workaround !)

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I am intrigued by the Linker, and have a question, but first, here is my setup:

• Oppo Blu-Ray player and Apple TV connected via HDMI to Onkyo 818 AVR; AVR connected to Vizio P65-C1 TV
• TiVo Bolt connected via HDMI to TV (Onkyo AVR does not do 4k pass-through) and via optical digital cable to AVR for audio

Would the Linker allow me to connect my TiVO directly to the Onkyo AVR and output everything to the TV via one HDMI cable and still allow for 4K video from YouTube, Netflix on the TiVo?

Thanks...
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@HDfury

you said...

INPUT 4K30 4:4:4 12b > OUTPUT 4K30 4:2:0 10b, if source can output this standard hdr mode. (i do believe your display should support 4K30 4:2:0 12b as well, so you can also output this)

My question is can you take the UHD output from the Samsung (4k24) and output something the last generation Sony's (350ES, etc.) can take (4k24 10 bit) and scale it to that (basically drop HDR and convert 2020 to 709)? Thanks.
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@HDfury

you said...

INPUT 4K30 4:4:4 12b > OUTPUT 4K30 4:2:0 10b, if source can output this standard hdr mode. (i do believe your display should support 4K30 4:2:0 12b as well, so you can also output this)

My question is can you take the UHD output from the Samsung (4k24) and output something the last generation Sony's (350ES, etc.) can take (4k24 10 bit) and scale it to that (basically drop HDR and convert 2020 to 709)? Thanks.
Guys we are still on the first page, so please read it it's answered above.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geodon005 View Post
I am intrigued by the Linker, and have a question, but first, here is my setup:

• Oppo Blu-Ray player and Apple TV connected via HDMI to Onkyo 818 AVR; AVR connected to Vizio P65-C1 TV
• TiVo Bolt connected via HDMI to TV (Onkyo AVR does not do 4k pass-through) and via optical digital cable to AVR for audio

Would the Linker allow me to connect my TiVO directly to the Onkyo AVR and output everything to the TV via one HDMI cable and still allow for 4K video from YouTube, Netflix on the TiVo?

Thanks...
I don't really understand your question.

If i got you right, you have a 4K TV and a 4K source (tivo bolt, please note that i never heard of it, so a link is welcome). but you have an AVR that do not support 4K but you want to connect the Tivo to it, i suppose for hdmi full sound ?

If that's correct, ultimate solution is that you need both Integral and Linker, so Tivo to integral, which split one 4K to your TV and one 4K to the linker which downscale it to something your AVR support so you got full sound.

Now if you only use Linker, then Tivo to linker, which downscale to AVR and then AVR to TV (you have 4K video working on tivo, but max signal your TV will get is the AVR max signal supported)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I don't really understand your question.

If i got you right, you have a 4K TV and a 4K source (tivo bolt, please note that i never heard of it, so a link is welcome). but you have an AVR that do not support 4K but you want to connect the Tivo to it, i suppose for hdmi full sound ?

If that's correct, ultimate solution is that you need both Integral and Linker, so Tivo to integral, which split one 4K to your TV and one 4K to the linker which downscale it to something your AVR support so you got full sound.

Now if you only use Linker, then Tivo to linker, which downscale to AVR and then AVR to TV (you have 4K video working on tivo, but max signal your TV will get is the AVR max signal supported)
Your Integral/Linker solution sounds exactly like what I am seeking.

Here is a link to the TiVO Bolt, BTW: https://www.tivo.com
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Guys we are still on the first page, so please read it it's answered above.
Ok, you give great support and I apologize for being so dense. I bought the Integral because I thought it would tell the Samsung to send full 4k24p, 10 bit, HDR, 2020 and I could keep the 4k24 and 10 bit by using the product only to find HDR is tied to the bit depth for the Samsung so the best I could get was 4k24 8 bit. So this product, I guess will take that output and scale 8 bit up to some greater bit depth. I am completely un-knowledgeable here in scaling 8 bits to 10 or higher vs passing the original 10 straight thru and whether I could tell a difference or not. So I am just asking whether it could do for me what the Integral could not and if it can pass the original bit depth thru great (on the Samsung), and if not and it scales then could I tell the difference? Sorry again for trying your patience.
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Ok, you give great support and I apologize for being so dense. I bought the Integral because I thought it would tell the Samsung to send full 4k24p, 10 bit, HDR, 2020 and I could keep the 4k24 and 10 bit by using the product only to find HDR is tied to the bit depth for the Samsung so the best I could get was 4k24 8 bit. So this product, I guess will take that output and scale 8 bit up to some greater bit depth. I am completely un-knowledgeable here in scaling 8 bits to 10 or higher vs passing the original 10 straight thru and whether I could tell a difference or not. So I am just asking whether it could do for me what the Integral could not and if it can pass the original bit depth thru great (on the Samsung), and if not and it scales then could I tell the difference? Sorry again for trying your patience.
I don't know your exact setup, but I think you're looking at it backwards. Yes the Samsung has limited in what it will output. So what the linker will do is allow setting the EDID so that the Samsung will output HDR (or Rec.2020 SDR) in one of the limited formats it supports, and then the Linker will convert/scale that to something your display will support.
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post #22 of 1712 Old 07-14-2016, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
Ok, you give great support and I apologize for being so dense. I bought the Integral because I thought it would tell the Samsung to send full 4k24p, 10 bit, HDR, 2020 and I could keep the 4k24 and 10 bit by using the product only to find HDR is tied to the bit depth for the Samsung so the best I could get was 4k24 8 bit. So this product, I guess will take that output and scale 8 bit up to some greater bit depth. I am completely un-knowledgeable here in scaling 8 bits to 10 or higher vs passing the original 10 straight thru and whether I could tell a difference or not. So I am just asking whether it could do for me what the Integral could not and if it can pass the original bit depth thru great (on the Samsung), and if not and it scales then could I tell the difference? Sorry again for trying your patience.
No do not apologize, just take it easy. I'll write it in another way: If what you want to do here involve 709<>2020 conversion, then my previous answers still stand for the moment.

If you are talking about 4K30 4:4:4 12b from K8500 to 4K30 4:2:0 in 12b or 10b, this already work.

Now usually HDR/BT2020 work together, so can the K8500 output 4K30 4:4:4 12 without being connected to a HDR display ? I can't remember right now from memory but since you have an integral, you can try it (you don't need to connect your display, just K8500 to integral and you monitor on GUI if you can get 4K30 4:4:4 12b without BT2020, if your display does not support it)

If you can get that, then yes you will be able to get 4K30 4:2:0 12 or 10 and you will have won something in picture quality, and you will tell us if the gain is good or not

If not, and HDR/BT2020 is needed to have deep color on K8500 and your display only support rec709, then keep an eye on the 3x3 matrix progress and do not pre-order yet.

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post #23 of 1712 Old 07-14-2016, 07:34 PM
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Thanks for the help stranger89 and HDFury...the setup is Samsung to Marantz MKII to (optional Integral) to Sony 350ES. The 350ES does not have 2020 or HDR. I can never get (you keep saying 4K30 but isn't the material) 4k24 10 bit. If I get 10 bit it is because the display is seeing 1080P (for example when the Samsung is set to output 4k as 1080P). So it is always 4K24 4:4:4 8 bit 709 or 1080/24 10 bit 709. I have been told by Samsung 10 bit for UHD is tied to HDR in their player. Sony tells be the display will do 4k24 at 10 or 12 bits 709. That is why I was looking for the Samsung to output its full 4k24 10 bit 2020 HDR and have the linker strip the HDR, keep 10 bit and convert 2020 to 709. Supposedly the Philips is more flexible than the Samsung so I will try it with that player just as soon as the Philips arrives but I like Fury for what they are trying to do and their people are great to help (and fast in implementing changes/new options if they can)!
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A noob question...

What is the difference between the Linker and the Integral? most of the technical stuff I read in both threads is way over my head...

I just bought an Integral because I needed to do two things:

1- get rid of the HDR from my (to come) UHD player to my JVC RS500, and keep anything else untouched.

2- to use its second hdmi output to feed the untouched audio signal into my Denon AVR.

Would the Linker do a better job for me?

I havent bought my UHD player yet and my Integral is still sitting in its unopened box...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
Thanks for the help stranger89 and HDFury...the setup is Samsung to Marantz MKII to (optional Integral) to Sony 350ES. The 350ES does not have 2020 or HDR. I can never get (you keep saying 4K30 but isn't the material) 4k24 10 bit. If I get 10 bit it is because the display is seeing 1080P (for example when the Samsung is set to output 4k as 1080P). So it is always 4K24 4:4:4 8 bit 709 or 1080/24 10 bit 709. I have been told by Samsung 10 bit for UHD is tied to HDR in their player. Sony tells be the display will do 4k24 at 10 or 12 bits 709. That is why I was looking for the Samsung to output its full 4k24 10 bit 2020 HDR and have the linker strip the HDR, keep 10 bit and convert 2020 to 709. Supposedly the Philips is more flexible than the Samsung so I will try it with that player just as soon as the Philips arrives but I like Fury for what they are trying to do and their people are great to help (and fast in implementing changes/new options if they can)!
From what you say, you might want to wait on the Linker until the HDFury guys figure out if the "colorist" functionality is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
A noob question...

What is the difference between the Linker and the Integral? most of the technical stuff I read in both threads is way over my head...

I just bought an Integral because I needed to do two things:

1- get rid of the HDR from my (to come) UHD player to my JVC RS500, and keep anything else untouched.

2- to use its second hdmi output to feed the untouched audio signal into my Denon AVR.

Would the Linker do a better job for me?

I havent bought my UHD player yet and my Integral is still sitting in its unopened box...
You probably don't need a linker for your JVC, since it will accept everything anyway. The integral might be a better choice since you'll have the option of using it to split audio/video.

The Linker is more for people like me, who have a display that doesn't support full HDMI 2.0 and we want to get more out of our displays than the limited functionality of the UHD players allow.
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post #26 of 1712 Old 07-15-2016, 06:32 AM
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From what you say, you might want to wait on the Linker until the HDFury guys figure out if the "colorist" functionality is possible.
Thanks. Subject to a response from HDFury this is where I will likely come out.
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
Thanks for the help stranger89 and HDFury...the setup is Samsung to Marantz MKII to (optional Integral) to Sony 350ES. The 350ES does not have 2020 or HDR. I can never get (you keep saying 4K30 but isn't the material) 4k24 10 bit. If I get 10 bit it is because the display is seeing 1080P (for example when the Samsung is set to output 4k as 1080P). So it is always 4K24 4:4:4 8 bit 709 or 1080/24 10 bit 709. I have been told by Samsung 10 bit for UHD is tied to HDR in their player. Sony tells be the display will do 4k24 at 10 or 12 bits 709. That is why I was looking for the Samsung to output its full 4k24 10 bit 2020 HDR and have the linker strip the HDR, keep 10 bit and convert 2020 to 709. Supposedly the Philips is more flexible than the Samsung so I will try it with that player just as soon as the Philips arrives but I like Fury for what they are trying to do and their people are great to help (and fast in implementing changes/new options if they can)!
I keep saying 4K30 because 4K24/25/30 is basically the same thing technically, so you can replace any 4K30 by 4K24 or 4K25 at will in what i wrote.

If you cannot get 4K24/25/30 4:4:4 12b from samsung without HDR/BT2020, then you have another option which is to take that 1080p24/25/30 10b 709 that you mention and upscale it to 4K30 4:2:0 10b... as you see, lot of possibilities.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
A noob question...

What is the difference between the Linker and the Integral? most of the technical stuff I read in both threads is way over my head...

I just bought an Integral because I needed to do two things:

1- get rid of the HDR from my (to come) UHD player to my JVC RS500, and keep anything else untouched.

2- to use its second hdmi output to feed the untouched audio signal into my Denon AVR.

Would the Linker do a better job for me?

I havent bought my UHD player yet and my Integral is still sitting in its unopened box...
We will publish a Linker VS Integral comparison table.

Regarding what you are trying to do, it all depends on your DENON AVR, if it's limited to 4K30 MAX and you want want main signal from source to display at 4K60 HDR or 4K30 4:4:4 12b HDR 450MHz, etc... and need a downscaled stream to feed full audio to Denon, then in fact you need both Integral and Linker.
Integral to split the 4K main signal, one output to display direct and second output to Linker which downscale for your AVR.

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4K Integral - User Manual PDF - iOS APP - Android APP
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GoBlue - Extend BT range and Add IR/BT support to Linker, Integral and upcoming.
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Trying to find out if the HDFURY linker or integral is what I need or work in my situation.


I'm trying to figure out the best way to get HD audio and the benefit's of the HDR 4K tech from a potential purchase of the Vizio p65 4k HDR TV.

My setup would be (P-65)Display, Denon AVR X4100 (supports 4k but not the newest HDMI standards, no HDR or Blu Rays). I'm planning on getting the Xbox one S. This is a gaming and Movie setup.

My issue would be how to get full HD audio and visuals without scrapping the AVR already, Not even 2 years old and paid $1500.00 for it.

Right now, I run everything through the AVR , then to the TV. If I do this with the P-65, I won't get 4k blu ray or HDR because of the Denon AVR. If I use all of the HDMI inputs on the P-65 then go optical etc to the AVR, then I lose HD audio.......

Would an HD Fury or something cheaper help me in this area? Anyone have a similar problem? Could I use the linker and split the HDMI line coming out of the Xbox one S to both the TV and also to the AVR? Is that how this would work?

I would love to still be able to hook up all PS4, Xbox one S, Xfinity cable box to the AVR for management purposes if possible (and full HD audio).

Thanks



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post #29 of 1712 Old 07-15-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I keep saying 4K30 because 4K24/25/30 is basically the same thing technically, so you can replace any 4K30 by 4K24 or 4K25 at will in what i wrote.

If you cannot get 4K24/25/30 4:4:4 12b from samsung without HDR/BT2020, then you have another option which is to take that 1080p24/25/30 10b 709 that you mention and upscale it to 4K30 4:2:0 10b... as you see, lot of possibilities.
Thanks. I may come back to this depending on what flexibility the Philips has over the Samsung.
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post #30 of 1712 Old 07-16-2016, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kylorendarkside View Post
Trying to find out if the HDFURY linker or integral is what I need or work in my situation.


I'm trying to figure out the best way to get HD audio and the benefit's of the HDR 4K tech from a potential purchase of the Vizio p65 4k HDR TV.

My setup would be (P-65)Display, Denon AVR X4100 (supports 4k but not the newest HDMI standards, no HDR or Blu Rays). I'm planning on getting the Xbox one S. This is a gaming and Movie setup.

My issue would be how to get full HD audio and visuals without scrapping the AVR already, Not even 2 years old and paid $1500.00 for it.

Right now, I run everything through the AVR , then to the TV. If I do this with the P-65, I won't get 4k blu ray or HDR because of the Denon AVR. If I use all of the HDMI inputs on the P-65 then go optical etc to the AVR, then I lose HD audio.......

Would an HD Fury or something cheaper help me in this area? Anyone have a similar problem? Could I use the linker and split the HDMI line coming out of the Xbox one S to both the TV and also to the AVR? Is that how this would work?

I would love to still be able to hook up all PS4, Xbox one S, Xfinity cable box to the AVR for management purposes if possible (and full HD audio).

Thanks



PS I've been an avid poster but email and password borked and still haven't recovered them.
See sig below.
Was jed.night on these forums with 100's of posts......
Email and password borked. Started over......
You need both, Integral and Linker

Connect 4K HDCP2.2 sources to Integral (from your list only the Xbox One S)
One output straight to TV, other output to LINKER which will downscale the second stream so your AVR can decode the full audio from it.

PS: Please do not make multiple post with same message here and in Integral thread, thank you !

HDCP Error? Blackscreen? No Audio? No Problem with HDfury!

4K Integral - User Manual PDF - iOS APP - Android APP
4K Linker - User Manual PDF - Scaling Modes - iOS APP - Android APP
GoBlue - Extend BT range and Add IR/BT support to Linker, Integral and upcoming.
Integral vs Linker - 18Gbps/600MHz HDMI cables that always work.
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