3 new scalers from Lumagen!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 07:11 PM
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Is $400.00 for two SDI inputs or is it for each SDI input? Thanks.

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post #92 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 07:55 PM
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Vinodk: Its a $400 option for 2 SDI inputs on the VisionHDP or VisionDVI.

Mark: Its a different chip to do 1080i deinterlacing.

Wan: No, the DVI connector on the HDP drives analog as well as digital. You'd need a DVI breakout cable or DVI->VGA->VGA breakout. The $100 is if you'd like BNC connectors for the analog output (which is better for driving the CRT).

AK47: Correct, with no HDCP on DVI the analog out is enabled.

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post #93 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 08:23 PM
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Thks, Patrick for the prompt reply.

Wan, I guess you'll get 2 analog outputs or 1 analog + 1 digital output with that $100.

:D
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post #94 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 09:37 PM
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This mya be the first scaler that is a) afordable (IMHO) and b) does waht I need.

Film mode for 1080i-> Check. Awesome.
DVI-D output -> Awesome.
Anything in->what I want out (I assume it will do 1366x768?
Two DVI inputs -> Check and...awesome (cable bopx and HTPC)

Question: If there is no HDCP on the input will it be on the output? My PJ (SE20HD) does not do HDCP, but luckily it is not enabled on my cable box.
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post #95 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jrp


3) Initially HD deinterlacing is pull-down reconstruction. Later we plan to add per-pixel as a user loadable update.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
Jim, what do you do if there is no cadence to lock, like with a sports cast or news?

Also, looking at the press spewage inverse telecine is only avaiable on the two higer end models. What do you do on the "low end" unit?
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post #96 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 10:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by patrick harkin
Wan: No, the DVI connector on the HDP drives analog as well as digital. You'd need a DVI breakout cable or DVI->VGA->VGA breakout. The $100 is if you'd like BNC connectors for the analog output (which is better for driving the CRT).
Sorry, I read Ofer's comment:
Quote:
Output is DVI-D + HDCP (i.e. digital only) at up to 800p
and interpreted at as the only mentioned output on the base model being DVI-D, which is completely different from DVI-A/I.
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post #97 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Mark haflich,

No. From what I know, the units basically contain two different implementations:

1. Sil504, essentially the same deinterlacer that's currently present in the Vision and Vision Pro. It is going to be used for SD deinterlacing only.

2. A custom chip (basically an FPGA that can be reprogrammed through a new firmware installation) that will do the deinterlacing for HD. Initially, it will do 3:2 pulldown for HD and simple deinterlacing for non-cadence-locked-HDTV. Later on, the design will be improved (through firmware update) to do a full blown deinterlacing solution for HD, and then you will have a choice for your SD deinterlacing as well (you'll be able to select which of the two deinterlacers you'd like to employ).

Of course, this is all my own understanding of the design structure.

Cheers,
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post #98 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WanMan
So, for those looking for CRT applications the list price will be $1499+$100, right?
Or you can use the VisionHDP's standard DVI-I analog output connection and a DVI-A to VGA cable. However, the BNC option will provide better video quality.

Note: There is only a single analog output. When the BNC option is installed the DVI-I's analog output should not be used.

For reference:
DVI-D = Digital only
DVI-A = analog only
DVI-I = Both analog and digital

Jim Peterson
Lumagen

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post #99 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ianken
Jim, what do you do if there is no cadence to lock, like with a sports cast or news?

Also, looking at the press spewage inverse telecine is only avaiable on the two higer end models. What do you do on the "low end" unit?
No cadence implies video. We will initially do a vertical filter on one then the other of the fields for video sources. This is often called "BOB", as in BOB and WEAVE.

The Vision DVI scales 1080i (i.e. "BOB"). Of course, BOB does not look as good for film sources. So, the Vision HDP will produce a better picture quality.

----

Ofer's comments are on track. We will use the SiI504 for SD, and our own for HD. Sometime after production release we plan to add per-pixel deinterlacing for HD. If we can improve on the SiI504 for SD we will put in the option to use our deinterlacing for SD as well.

We, of course, have yet to develop the per-pixel deinterlacing, it is not trivial by any means, and exactly how well we do remains to be seen. So, we can not say when this might be released.

Jim Peterson
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post #100 of 1598 Old 03-01-2004, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jin kim
Does anyone know if 4:2:2 YCbCr support over HDMI a requirement for all HDMI dvd players? Reading the specs at HDMI.org suggests this is the case if a DVD player has a component output.
I read the spec again and it says that an HDMI source that can output any component signal, must also be able to output both the 4:4:4 and the 4:2:2 YCbCr HDMI formats.

It does not (that I could find) say it must be able to do this at 480i/576i. So, you may have to live with poor deinterlacing.

And there is still that nasty encryption. So, SDI may be preferable for some systems even at its higher cost.

Jim Peterson
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post #101 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 12:50 AM
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I would point out that over here in the UK there are two HDMI outputting DVD player options. Both Pioneer. One has 480i/576i as an output option and the other does not.......of course it's the more expensive that gives you the lower resolution option.

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post #102 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 04:09 AM
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Sorry, perhaps I missed this (and am in need of another cup of coffee), but what were the anticipated list prices for the different units?

-Y
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order." - Dr. Who
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post #103 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 06:54 AM
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See the very first post in this thread. First sentence or so.

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post #104 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by jrp
Or you can use the VisionHDP's standard DVI-I analog output connection and a DVI-A to VGA cable. However, the BNC option will provide better video quality.

Note: There is only a single analog output. When the BNC option is installed the DVI-I's analog output should not be used.

For reference:
DVI-D = Digital only
DVI-A = analog only
DVI-I = Both analog and digital

Jim Peterson
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Jim, let me see if I can rephrase the question. My comprehension is lacking these days.

For someone with a CRT projector the cheapest Lumagen solution is what product currently, and what product 6-months from now? Is the original Vision being replace, or are the three new propducts additions?
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post #105 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 08:01 AM
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Will the SDI option need to be ordered at purchase, or could it be added on at a later date?

Doug
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post #106 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
See the very first post in this thread. First sentence or so.
I must have been blind. Danke...

-Y
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order." - Dr. Who
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post #107 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yubyub
Sorry, perhaps I missed this (and am in need of another cup of coffee), but what were the anticipated list prices for the different units?
VisionDVI: $999 DVI-D output
VisionHDP: $1499 DVI-I output
VisionPro HDP: $2299 DVI-D plus BNC analog output

Jim Peterson
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post #108 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WanMan
For someone with a CRT projector the cheapest Lumagen solution is what product currently, and what product 6-months from now? Is the original Vision being replace, or are the three new propducts additions?
Here is what we plan:

March 2004:
Vision $999
VisionPro $1895
VisionPro SDI $2295

September 2004:
Vision $999
VisionHDP $1499
VisionPro HDP $2299

We feel the Vision will still prove a great value, for analog input displays, six months from now. The VisionHDP will provide a better picture and HD processing, but for those on a tighter budget, the Vision will still improve the sources most needing it. That is, SD DVDs and SD satellite.

Jim Peterson
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post #109 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 10:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by jrp
Here is what we plan:

March 2004:
Vision $999
VisionPro $1895
VisionPro SDI $2295

September 2004:
Vision $999
VisionHDP $1499
VisionPro HDP $2299

We feel the Vision will still prove a great value, for analog input displays, six months from now. The VisionHDP will provide a better picture and HD processing, but for those on a tighter budget, the Vision will still improve the sources most needing it. That is, SD DVDs and SD satellite.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
And where does the VisionDVI fit into this?
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post #110 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 11:14 AM
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The question was about products with analogue outputs.....VisionDVI is a digital out only device so isn't much use to CRT projector owners.

Gordon

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post #111 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 11:14 AM
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The question was about products with analogue outputs.....VisionDVI is a digital out only device so isn't much use to CRT projector owners.

Gordon

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post #112 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 11:32 AM
 
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Gordon, I know. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a typo. For instance, a typo (I've made plenty of them) in the September 2004 entry of VisionDVI being typed in as Vision would produce mixed results. So, a sought for clarification.

Remember, I did say, "Jim, let me see if I can rephrase the question. My comprehension is lacking these days."

Sorry Gordon if I seemed to offend you by my last post.
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post #113 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WanMan
And where does the VisionDVI fit into this?
For digital output, the product lineup will be:

VisionDVI $999
VisionHDP $1499
VisionPro HDP $2299

So for $999 for analog output you have the Vision and for digital output you have the VisionDVI.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen

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post #114 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 12:20 PM
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You guys [Lumagen] are sweet.

These products really sound like "killer apps" if you can deliver. I have no reason not to be a customer of yours now.

-Y
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order." - Dr. Who
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post #115 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 02:13 PM
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Jim, I've tried to digest everything in this thread, but I decided a direct question is needed, since I now know we share the same pj. I use a Dish 6000 for my local HD ota, and also for premium HD programming such as HBO. I currently have a Digital Leeza which has a bespoke SDI DVD player. Is the Vision HDP the correct application for me? Sorry, my input mode has been overwhelmed by the information contained in this thread!
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post #116 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 02:41 PM
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Have to say these new units seem too good to be true, especially for someone like me who has two DVI inputs (cable and satellite), plus SDI from my DVD player AND since I'm driving both a plasma and a projector. Anybody wanna buy my CS-2 in a month or so?:D

Jamie
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post #117 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
Jim, I've tried to digest everything in this thread, but I decided a direct question is needed, since I now know we share the same pj. I use a Dish 6000 for my local HD ota, and also for premium HD programming such as HBO. I currently have a Digital Leeza which has a bespoke SDI DVD player. Is the Vision HDP the correct application for me? Sorry, my input mode has been overwhelmed by the information contained in this thread!
Joseph:
It depends more on your display.

The VisionDVI up-scales 1080i to the output resolution. The Vision HDP (and VisionPro HDP) deinterlaces 1080i to 1080p then down-scales to the output resolution. The later is noticably better.

Both the VisionDVI and VisionHDP have dual-SDI options. The VisionPro HDP has two SDI inputs standard.

If you have a 480p Plasma, or a 1080i only DVI in projector/RPTV, the VisionDVI is a great piece.

If you have a >=720p projector or RPTV, I would say go with the Vision HDP or VisionPro HDP.

If your display/projector has analog in only, you need the Vision HDP or VisionPro HDP.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen

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post #118 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 03:39 PM
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Thank you, sir! You might have missed my mention in my first post, but I have a 9500 (like you!). Sounds like it's the HDP or Pro HDP. If I understand the Pro correctly, I think the HDP has its processing capability, but not the input and output flexibility. Right?
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post #119 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
Thank you, sir! You might have missed my mention in my first post, but I have a 9500 (like you!). Sounds like it's the HDP or Pro HDP. If I understand the Pro correctly, I think the HDP has its processing capability, but not the input and output flexibility. Right?
The electronics and processing are the same in the the Vision HDP and the VisionPro HDP.

If you get the dual-SDI and BNC options on the Vision HDP (which I would strongly recommend for such a nice CRT projector), the remaining extras on the VisionPro HDP are:

- Nicer case.
- Front panel display (IMO: OSD makes front panel display a moot point).
- Front panel Power/Input/Aspect (IMO: Only useful as backup for a dead remote).
- BNC analog inputs (Provides a PQ improvement for analog sources)
- Up to 4 SVideo inputs, or up to 4 Component in (2 SD/HD, 2 SD) plus 2 SVideo in.
- Comes with some nice cables
- Rack mount ears.

These extras cost $300 over the optioned out Vision HDP ($1999). It's your choice as to if they are worth it.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen

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post #120 of 1598 Old 03-02-2004, 06:25 PM
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Is there any way to pass through a computer RGB signal on these new processors? If not, are the DVI inputs capable of properly handling computer DVI levels?
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