Wish List of Features for the Upcoming Algolith Dragonfly - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 221 Old 10-25-2004, 07:16 AM
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Murat,

What most likely is happening is that they're working hard to get this unit to production level before CES.

Throughout the years in this forum, vendors always come in and try to round up support and then slowly fade from the forum - because of the heavy toll of our questions...

I think Patrick & Jim from Lumagen, and Dale & Josh from DVDO spoiled you guys. You're expecting everyone to be as responsive, but it's near impossible for vendors to be able to provide that type of support...

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post #182 of 221 Old 10-25-2004, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I think he is avoiding getting further bashed here do the essential non responsiveness to doing the features we wanted. No SDI, no MNR, no BNCs etc. What they will see as a result of this nonresponsiveness is decreased sales. I'm guessing they will offer AVS a power buy and a few might be sold that way if the price was low enough. Serious videophile and custom installers I think will stay away.

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post #183 of 221 Old 10-25-2004, 04:16 PM
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" Serious videophile and custom installers I think will stay away."

I guess I'm not that serious a videophile. :(

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #184 of 221 Old 10-25-2004, 05:43 PM
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Hello Mark, everyone, hope you had a great vacation. I apologize for the apparent lack of response from our side, we felt we had covered all the info in the last few weeks, I see you guys really missed me... I covered the ins and out on the first generation of the Dragon Fly as FLingier indicated above, now we're trying to see how we can cover your SDI, MNR BNC requirements.

Regards

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post #185 of 221 Old 10-25-2004, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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We really did miss you! As long as you stay here, there is always a chance that this group therapy session will be successful in making you and the rest of the great Algolith team into AVS comformists. However there is little hope for Rogo. You know, that indeed is the correct word. Rogo is a hopeless but not serious videophile. Would you like to place a pre-order Rogo?

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post #186 of 221 Old 10-25-2004, 10:42 PM
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My wish list - whatever Mark Haflich says is a must!!!@@@

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
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post #187 of 221 Old 10-25-2004, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Steve is evidently starting to lay the groundwork for his next April fools. Seriously, you big lug, I am coming to vist you, Dan Houck, and Tim on my way back from this winter's CES.

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post #188 of 221 Old 10-25-2004, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mark haflich
Steve is evidently starting to lay the groundwork for his next April fools. Seriously, you big lug, I am coming to vist you, Dan Houck, and Tim on my way back from this winter's CES.
Mark, that would be great!!!!! :D :D :D :D

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post #189 of 221 Old 10-26-2004, 12:14 AM
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" However there is little hope for Rogo. You know, that indeed is the correct word. Rogo is a hopeless but not serious videophile. Would you like to place a pre-order Rogo?"

Thanks, but with the insults and all, I'll bypass the middleman. :)

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #190 of 221 Old 10-26-2004, 04:37 AM
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If we offered as an option the replacement of the composite input for an SDI would you guys miss the composite input? At the output, would RGsB (sync on green) on BNC work instead of RGBHV? MNR on all resolutions?
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post #191 of 221 Old 10-26-2004, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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No need for a composite input. RGsB won't do it. Some of us need RGBH/V others RGBHV. If worse came to worse, component out via BNCs could be transcoded to RGBHV but I think the better solution would be to put the deluxe unit into a taller box or something to that effect. I gather MNR can be switched off and on? If so, all resolutions, no problem. Remember all inputs should be BNCs as well, ala top of the line Lumagen model, even those for S (2 BNCs each) and component (three BNCs for each). Remember we are trying to buy the best (at a reasonable price and wish to eliminate other than 75 ohm connectors.

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post #192 of 221 Old 10-26-2004, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Rogo. It was a compliment, not an insult! Maybe compulsive would have been a better word than hopeless? :) Unlike Steve you are a small lug. :) Better to have lugged and lost, than never to have lugged at all. By the way, I am a video processor design/marketing consultant, not a middleman (ask Algolith). :)

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post #193 of 221 Old 10-26-2004, 08:26 AM
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Hello Algolith,

It's good to hear from you again. First of all as you can see we all are a little impatient here and we all want to have best available technology with all possible options. It's not our duty to interfere with your company strategies and product designs, we are just suggesting what would fit to our needs (yes, there are lots of them :rolleyes: ) IMHO, you should have a PRO version as Lumagen has

A PRO Dragonfly with

Inputs:
2 SDI
2 S-Video
1 or 2 component
1 or 2 HDMI
1 or 2 DVI

Outputs:
1 RGBHV on separate BNC's
1 RGBHV on VGA
1 DVI
1 HDMI

All I/O's on BNC's and MNR included in one box

I'm sure that there are lots of AVS members here plus others who would easily pay the difference for the added I/O's and MNR
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post #194 of 221 Old 10-26-2004, 11:22 PM
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Mark H., gotcha.

Algolith, yes, please, at all resolutions if at all possible.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #195 of 221 Old 10-27-2004, 08:08 AM
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So if we have Component on BNC in an out, you guys would settle the BNC vs RCA issue?
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post #196 of 221 Old 10-27-2004, 08:35 AM
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Maybe someone has mentioned it already--Test Patterns. Please put test patterns in for calibration purposes.
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post #197 of 221 Old 10-27-2004, 09:09 AM
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Algolith

Given these features, how much would this device retail for, approximately??

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post #198 of 221 Old 10-27-2004, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I could live with component out and then transcode it BUT it would be a pain, causing the extra expense of a transcoder and would decrease the marketability. The better solution would be for you guys to put it into a bigger box. Same board with some changes, bigger box, more money.

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post #199 of 221 Old 10-27-2004, 09:45 AM
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If I understand it correctly, this unit will be exclusively for de-interlacing and scaling, plus limited NR, right? None of the other Realta goodies (detail enhancement, etc) will be included?

Will it only take interlaced input? I would consider this product if it were possible for me to feed it from my HTPC, which I use as a media server sometimes (especially for multi-disc films). There's no way I can go back to a standalon player.
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post #200 of 221 Old 10-28-2004, 07:38 AM
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Algolith, we all (I for sure) can do without composite input; SDI would replace it very well :-)).
Concerning component output I would suggest you to consider (once again) the 5BNC RGBHV output instead of the Component one.
Even if Component output could be transcoded to RGBHV we wouldn't like to spend 3.500 - 5.000 dollars for a box that needs a trnscoder to be set with our Crts. I mean, it would be a minus I would frankly avoid.
Thanks again for your time.
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post #201 of 221 Old 10-28-2004, 08:30 AM
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THe bottom line is the KISS principle. "Keep It Simple Stupid". One box does it all. Basically, my current Lumagen VisionPro HDP with all its inputs and outputs and functionality, with the Realta chip features. And why not have the one box at several different price points, with the top line one featuring full features including Mosquito noise reduction.

Hey Mark Haflich, does this accurately summarize your video consultant position? HAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

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post #202 of 221 Old 10-28-2004, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I agree completely with Steve. Reading between Algolith's lines, he is trying his best to accommodate us with minor changes to his board (designed by Silicon Optix) and his planned box for it (which I imagine is the same size as the consumer MNR box powered buyed by AVS). The marketing scheme envisioned by Algolith is to daisy chain the new processor box with their existing consumer MNR box with RCAs etc.

We have made it clear what we want and need and what general price we are willing to pay. The price for the two daisy chained boxes is too high. We are looking for something in the top of line Lumagen range plus say maybe a grand higher for MNR and the Realta chip. So we are looking at a top MSRP of say $3500, maybe a little higher.

The problem with all this is that I suspect the Silicon Optix designed board will not support adding MNR (of course maybe there is room already or that MNR could be added to the Realta chip, once again I do not know). Second there is simply not enough room on the box's back plate to put the connectors we want. Read between the lines. Algolith wants to substitute connectors to give us what we demand. This is a cheap way to do it. A lot cheaper than ordering up bigger boxes and new front and rear plates.

Now Algolith says that will come later. But will it when Algolith sees how minuscule the processor market is? All here already own processors, many of us own multiples. If the simple Algolith first to market box is expensive, say in the $3K range, few will buy it. A nice sports car with only all weather tires won't do it.

There has been lots of competition in the processor market. Many new displays will have the Realta chip already built in. The average high end consumer knows little if anything about MN.

I am babbling. Too much Red Sox last night for this old Boston Boy.

Algolith could capture the market if they build a Lumagen with MNR and the Realta chip and bring it to market for say under $3500. Making minor changes to a small box and the Silicon Optix designed board I do not think will do it.

I do really appreciate what Algolith is trying to do for us here.

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post #203 of 221 Old 10-28-2004, 10:26 AM
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That sums it up nicely Mark.
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post #204 of 221 Old 10-28-2004, 11:59 PM
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Mark H.,

I didn't read anything about daisy chaining. Keep in mind that the Realta already has some artifact removal built into it. I don't see why Algolith (if they decided it was worth it for them) couldn't replace that algorithm with their MNR algorithm.

Because Relata is a true software processor, there's no reason why such features couldn't be added on with a firmware update at a later stage.

Regarding inputs, I think you're right - a large selection of inputs is very very important.

Regarding displays with the Realta - I think it will take time. Display manufacturers are not that quick to adopt revolutionary features (particularly not very high-end ones). Note how many displays still have bad scaling or deinterlacing. It will take time for mid-level projectors (not the high-end $20K+ units) to adopt the technology.

In any case, I share the view that Algolith has a lot of added value and if they produce a good processor, they can really shake this market (regardless of how small it is). I think the VP market is small, but it's influential - I also think it has a lot of potential to grow if handled properly and if custom installers feel more comfortable with the technology.

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post #205 of 221 Old 10-29-2004, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Ofer. Algolith has not stated that the Dragonfly will include MNR. I doubt but do not know if there is room in the Realta chip to include with the deinterlacing and scaling qualities of the Teranex that we want.

Of course they intend a daisy chain with their existing product! Of course the dragonfly could stand alone but performance if you would MNR would involve daisy chaining.

Silicon Optix has stated in this thread that so far ten manufacturers have early adopted the Realta chip and that these are all display manufacturers.

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post #206 of 221 Old 10-29-2004, 06:22 AM
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Ten display manufacturers.

Wouldn't that just about include everybody? At least the major manufacturers.

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post #207 of 221 Old 10-29-2004, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I am just repeating what the Silicon Optix guy posted somewhere above.

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post #208 of 221 Old 10-29-2004, 11:22 AM
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The Silicon Optix guy said 10 early adopters. He didn't say that they were ALL display OEMs, because they're not...

Regarding Teranex' parallel processing architecture, see: http://www.teranex.com/support/docs/...rallelProc.pdf

Professional applications (broadcast/post) have greater requirements for video processing power in which case multiple Realtas are desirable.

But for the masses a single Realta, outperforming a Pentium4 by 10x (i.e. ops/sec), is powerful enough....

Hollywood Quality Video
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post #209 of 221 Old 10-29-2004, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HQV
The Silicon Optix guy said 10 early adopters. He didn't say that they were ALL display OEMs, because they're not...
I am 100% pure-bred Silicon Optix man. Thank you Ofer for the clarification

Rogo's right, it's not that simple. We unveiled the chip only a month ago and it takes time to integrate it into an existing "full featured scaler" design. That said, we do have a Realta reference design that is much easier/quicker for OEMs to implement...

Did I mention that we have 10+ early adopter customers? Unfortunately (for this forum), these guys will be offering HQV display devices, not boxes. However, one of them might have a pleasant surprise [for this forum] sometime soon...


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Last edited by HQV on 10-19-04 at 05:27 PM

HQV:

The above qoute states the early adipters will be offering HQV display devices, not boxes


???????????????????????????????????
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post #210 of 221 Old 10-29-2004, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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HQV stated on 10/19/04, this thread, that there were 10+ early adopters, unfortunately for us they were all display guys. So how was my statement wrong?

I understand daisy chaining people, chips, and boxes. I said Algolith was requiring us to daisy chain boxes to get Teranex with MNR. Of course chips can be easily daisy chained.

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