Poor man's SDI - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 744 Old 07-08-2001, 02:56 PM
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I may be in the dark, but what is SDI?

Thanks!

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post #92 of 744 Old 07-08-2001, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by damon:
TommyBoy,

I have searched but cannot find any reviews of the performance improvements you and Alan have noticed with the
your modded DVD player in the chain. Thanks, Mark

Try this one http://www.avscience.com/scaller_review.htm

All of the testing of the GVC1280-SDI combo was done with the modded Denon.

Tom
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post #93 of 744 Old 07-08-2001, 09:46 PM
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Well, apparently nobody has the SD021-5EVK in stock either. I will call NS tomorrow and see if they know what's up.

[pleading]Anybody here feel sorry for me and have an extra board they would sell me? I would even pay a small premium.[/pleading]

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post #94 of 744 Old 07-08-2001, 10:23 PM
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Has anybody popped the top on the DVD MAX to see what chipset they are using for SDI?

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post #95 of 744 Old 07-09-2001, 07:01 AM
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Most likely not available yet either, but the next generation from National:
http://www.national.com/pf/CL/CLC030.html

"The serial data clock frequency is internally generated and requires no external frequency setting, trimming or filtering components*". Does this mean no need for SAV- or EAV signals?



Mark Conner
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post #96 of 744 Old 07-09-2001, 07:11 AM
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This does both SMPTE259 and SMPTE292! That means it can serialize 480i AND HDTV!!

The problem is that there is no scaler that can accept a SMPTE292 on the market as far as I know. Maybe Teranex, but other than that there is nothing else out there yet.

Tom
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post #97 of 744 Old 07-09-2001, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by J_Nemeth:
Has anybody popped the top on the DVD MAX to see what chipset they are using for SDI?
I popped the top on mine and found a tiny PCB with a 44pin TQFP on it. The I.C. had been defaced so I couldn't tell the make. My suspicion is it's a Gennum chip.

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post #98 of 744 Old 07-09-2001, 12:55 PM
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Since Vigatec is now clearly an industry leader as shown by their wonderful progressive attitude, I imagine it would not be a problem for them to incorporate this new HDTV capable SDI chip as mentioned above. That would be great and would make a perfect complement to Dish/Direct TV SDI output from STB. Opinions?



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post #99 of 744 Old 07-09-2001, 03:29 PM
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I am still puzzled: after modification, would a DTC-100 output a regular HD on VGA data stream and a SDI data stream, so that you could still switch between the two, or would you then need TWO boxes, one for HD and the other for the SDI output?

Thanks

Cheers.
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post #100 of 744 Old 07-09-2001, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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dahester:

The National SDI chip is a 28 pin device, so you must be right about Gennum. I think Fairchild and others make SDI chips as well. Note that the National chips list for $28, quantity one.

When you see a manufacturer deface a chip, you know he's got something to hide. Maybe it's the fact that the board is very cheap to make. What did they charge for the SDI option?
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post #101 of 744 Old 07-09-2001, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Cobler:

When you see a manufacturer deface a chip, you know he's got something to hide. Maybe it's the fact that the board is very cheap to make. What did they charge for the SDI option?[/b]
Or maybe the manufacturer is required by the chip maker to hide the identity of the chip manufacturer? I know of one company that requires just that so that their subsidiary company isn't harmed by a competitor using the chip for the same reason the subsidiary uses it.

Tom
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post #102 of 744 Old 07-10-2001, 02:02 PM
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Robert, the National CLC021 is a 44-pin PQFP, so not necessarily...

Paul
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post #103 of 744 Old 07-11-2001, 08:02 PM
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So the current word is that there is no availability on the evaluation output boards? Has anybody tried breadboarding the chip using the suggested circuit in the app notes?

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post #104 of 744 Old 07-11-2001, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Dan:

I've done it using a socketed CLC020 and a piece of single-sided board. It worked for me...
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post #105 of 744 Old 07-11-2001, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jlm:
digesting these threads with respect to vigatech/PMDT/DTC-100 owners:
...
mods are available to convert the DTC-100 to give an SDI output for sdtv.
...
jlm
Are these mods public??? I'd certainly like to take a look
at them. (I'm sure other people are also interested).

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post #106 of 744 Old 07-12-2001, 11:40 AM
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Thanks, Bob. I suppose I'll breadboard my own.

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post #107 of 744 Old 07-12-2001, 02:58 PM
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DTC-100 update: I got very far along in my modification only to be stymied by the same problem Bob Cobler ran into with the Hughes receiver. The 8-bit bus does NOT have SAV and EAV signals. An FPGA will be needed to make a DTC-100 operate with SDI. The bus is BT.601-like, but I'm stumped on how to get even/odd field information...

I've intestigated some other receivers (latest RCA and Sony 'Plus' receivers). They all are highly integrated, with the encoder built into the MPEG decoder. It's very unlikely you will find even a BT.601 bus in these designs, much less a BT.656.

The good news is the HDTV receivers don't appear to have integrated NTSC encoders (yet). I looked inside a Toshiba DST-3000 and found the same Conexant encoder as in the Hughes E45. I have a hunch the bus is still BT.601.

Next models I need to investigate: the new DirecTivo boxes. Rumor has it the original Tivo boxes ship around BT.656 busses everywhere, so maybe one is accessible in a DirecTivo receiver.

Here is a tid-bit for those of you who have access to an o'scope. It's pretty easy to tell if a box has a '656 interface.
1) Find the datasheet for the encoder chip in your box.
2) Find the 8 bit input to the encoder.
3) Get your box to display a black picture while powered on, with as little text as possible. Removing your access card should get you close enough.
4) Using a scope probe, look for activity on every wire of the bus. If any wire is stuck high or low, you've got a '601 bus (BAD).
5) If all the lines are switching, pick the bus with the least activity on it. Get another scope probe and look for logic high signals that coincide with each other on the other lines of the bus. Basically every EAV and SAV sequence has an FF(hex) symbol, which makes every line on the bus a logic 1. If you see coincident pulses on every line of the bus, there's a damn good chance it's a '656 bus (GOOD). Get out your soldering iron...no first, post here that 'I found one!' http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

-Dylan


[This message has been edited by dahester (edited 07-12-2001).]

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post #108 of 744 Old 07-12-2001, 06:31 PM
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You guys are pretty hardcore. I couldn't imagine "breadboarding" such tiny packages.

FYI: Any DVD player based on the Zoran Vaddis III MPEG decoder will likely have SAV/EAV present, or could be modified to enable it.
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post #109 of 744 Old 07-12-2001, 06:43 PM
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Mark

You're on the right track and the wrong thread. Come join us http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001314.html

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post #110 of 744 Old 07-14-2001, 07:33 AM
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I beleive you are right about the Tivo's.
From the 9th Tee which advertises on the Forum you can follow links to another site with pictures that will verify.


Here it is: http://www.9thtee.com/insidetivo.htm

[This message has been edited by damon (edited 07-14-2001).]

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post #111 of 744 Old 07-14-2001, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Fontana:
You guys are pretty hardcore. I couldn't imagine "breadboarding" such tiny packages.

FYI: Any DVD player based on the Zoran Vaddis III MPEG decoder will likely have SAV/EAV present, or could be modified to enable it.
But it will also have the red chroma bug! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

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post #112 of 744 Old 07-14-2001, 08:39 AM
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Of course, but I thought it was at least worth mentioning in the middle of these ("Will THIS player work? How about THIS one?") postings... plus the chroma bug doesn't seem to have stopped anyone from modifying their satellite receivers, right?
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post #113 of 744 Old 07-15-2001, 08:03 AM
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I posted this over on the rich mans SDI when I realized it should have been posted here. I was wondering if the new DVD players that use the Mediamatics NDV8501 chip(JVC 65G)might be a candidate for the SDI output.According to the speck sheet It mentions a CCIR 656 output to enable outboard video decoders. If this output is easy to access than these new DVD players could be a good cheap SDI output alternative. Here is the sheet on the NDV8501 http://www.national.com/ads-cgi/view...ND/NDV8501.pdf

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post #114 of 744 Old 07-15-2001, 02:14 PM
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Is it worth it to secure a Denon now, even though the National Board could turn out to be so hard to find? Will they be around much longer? Will they go up in price? And what are the chances that other players will be available in the not so distant future to mod to give comparable results to what the Denon gives today? I don't mind spending when it comes to my hobby, but I'm really not much of a good gambling man.

Also, anyone find a good lead on these boards yet?

Thanks,

Luca

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post #115 of 744 Old 07-16-2001, 03:59 PM
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>> Will they (Denon 3300) go up in price?

Well, they went up a dollar today to $410 at uBid! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Seriously, I think the prices for any DVD player would only drop in price given time. At it's current price, it's already a heck of a buy.

After reading this entire thread at least three times, I'm still not exactly clear about:
1. Where to get the SDI board.
2. How to install it in a Denon 3300.

Is there a FAQ or something that shows how this is done? tommyboy--didn't you upgrade yours and Alan's 3300?
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post #116 of 744 Old 07-17-2001, 11:16 PM
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Like others here , I have also had a hard time finding the National Semiconductor Parts. Anybody making any headway on this? Looks as if there is enough interest for a small powerbuy. Perhaps a quntity of 10 or so may loosen the wheels?

dhester, Would you please contact me privately. Thanks,
make it: @airmail.net

[This message has been edited by damon (edited 07-18-2001).]

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post #117 of 744 Old 07-18-2001, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Damon: Re SDI board availability

I know the EVK boards are in short supply, that's why I am in the process of laying out a PCB to replace the EVK. The design is very compact and the entire assembly can be mounted with a single 1/2" hole. I plan to offer them to members as kits once everything checks out OK. I will post again when the first article is tested.
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post #118 of 744 Old 07-18-2001, 05:13 PM
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I'm in!
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post #119 of 744 Old 07-18-2001, 05:17 PM
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I'm curious, too. Let me know when you have more info.

Since I used to work at TiVo, I might be able to get good info on the best board locations to tap into a 656 stream...

Paul
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post #120 of 744 Old 07-18-2001, 09:03 PM
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Bravo Robert,

I was thinking the same thing, but don't have the skills to make a board. Put me on your list of buyers for the "Cobbler Kit".

I just got my Dune yesterday, and the D-1 input is whispering, "Plug something into me, Plug it now".


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[This message has been edited by J_Nemeth (edited 07-18-2001).]

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