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post #181 of 744 Old 03-20-2002, 02:41 PM
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I saw an earlier post regarding the DCT-1000, isnt imersive doing that mod along with Dish 6K?

Also, the early indications say that the new Echostar box will have a DVI...out


true this may not deal with our good friend HDCP... but its definitely a step in the right direction... ... but if the correct cards for say the 503CMX were used it could work.. soon..

I know this doesnt solve the immediate need... Just curious what you guys thoughts were

On a different question... anyone know how to look for the ability to add an RS232 connection ? on say a Dish 6k and Pan RP-56 for control purposes... i know where the Sat is.... (thats how they are hacked), I havent tried it yet...

I would assume the if you found the serial bus, you could either add the correct logic controler with an I/O interface(RS232) And run a small script from your serial port on your comp... that would shoot ASCII into it and see if you could toggle menu options?etc...

-A-

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post #182 of 744 Old 03-20-2002, 09:57 PM
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Hi Glimmie

The Sony appears to have 601 multiplexed 4:2:2 without EAV/SAV, so I'd need some logic.

I'm hoping that there is a data header (dream on), but your point about bus interference is well taken.


Unfortunately my knowledge of FPGAs is zip (looks like around $600 entry for the bigger stuff), but I was fascinated to see that there are major SDI building blocks on the Xilinx website - you could put the whole thing onto an array (too rich for my blood though - I'm looking for a nice, hackable eval board and a solid reference design).

Cheers

Neil
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post #183 of 744 Old 03-21-2002, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by d4lions

On a different question... anyone know how to look for the ability to add an RS232 connection ? on say a Dish 6k and Pan RP-56 for control purposes... i know where the Sat is.... (thats how they are hacked), I havent tried it yet...

I would assume the if you found the serial bus, you could either add the correct logic controler with an I/O interface(RS232) And run a small script from your serial port on your comp... that would shoot ASCII into it and see if you could toggle menu options?etc...

-A-
It's not that simple to tap into their internal control buss. Yes, it's probably serial but not a data format that is convertable to RS232. I know Sony simply uses the IR commands and their front panel controller just looks like another remote IR controller. But that's Sony...

I have modified some of my stuff for external RS232 by adding internal microcontrollers that just "push the buttons" with CMOS switched i.e. 4066's. Since most control panels are multiplexed, simple pull to high or low won't work. You neeed to close the switch with a relay or MOS gate. IMO, This approach is sloppy and limited in the number of functions you can automate. Plus getting feedback on what the front panel or machine is actually doing is more difficult.

Another approach is to use an RS232 IR emulator. www.smarthome.com sells a few models. These have registures that can be programmed with your remote and then accessed through RS232 commands. In fact all your components could be controlled by one RS232 port. To make it really reliable, unstall the IR transmitters inside the devices.

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post #184 of 744 Old 03-23-2002, 02:31 AM
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Hy snaggs , nice HP and forum over there.The Sdi mod for my Nokia STB made Robert Cobler for me.Of course for technical questions he´s the specilist.It looks like , that only older STB´s can be mod--without integratet chips.The signal way is the best available with STV.For now I´ve little problems to find good settings for D-Scaler with STB because of the big differences in PQ of the several Programs. Best Regards Jürgen Now in Holidays for 2 weeks.
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post #185 of 744 Old 04-30-2002, 09:47 AM
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Hi all,

I just found this thread. This is pretty fun stuff. I'm noticing a real lack of interest in people doing this themselves so if I'm in the wrong thread here just let me know.

I'm going to attempt this myself first on my rp56 then on my DirecTivo. I just ordered the SD020EVK but from comments here it seems unlikely that I will ever recieve it. Anyone of the doit yourselfers here have any success with the build your own route? I'm especially interested in how you securely mounted it to the box.

Have any doit yourselfers gotten the DirectTivo working yet?

Sorry for all the sort of open ended questions. I'm just getting started here and I'm looking to see if I need to reinvent the wheel.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to hone in on anyone that is doing this for profit. This is just my own little project.

Thanks alot,
Matt
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post #186 of 744 Old 04-30-2002, 11:49 AM
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Whats the quick answer on a A310. What encoder chip does it use. Can it be modded. Does anyone have a quick how to for this box ?.

Does anyone have a list of mod-able encoder chips ?.

In fact does anyone have a list of avaliable MPEG decoder chips that will work for SDI moddin

AND

A list of who can do these mods for me in a OEM arrangement would be good. I need DSS/DVD/STB all that stuff..

But for now I need the basics on a A310 right away..

Thanx !!!!
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post #187 of 744 Old 04-30-2002, 11:59 AM
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Hi all,

Just a quick update. I heard by from AVNet on the SD020EVK. They seem pretty convinced that these can be had in 6 - 8 weeks, maybe less. If anyone is still looking for these I suggest you check them out.

http://www.avnet.com

Thanks,
Matt
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post #188 of 744 Old 04-30-2002, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonfigleo
Hi all,

I just found this thread. This is pretty fun stuff. I'm noticing a real lack of interest in people doing this themselves so if I'm in the wrong thread here just let me know.

I'm going to attempt this myself first on my rp56 then on my DirecTivo. I just ordered the SD020EVK but from comments here it seems unlikely that I will ever recieve it. Anyone of the doit yourselfers here have any success with the build your own route? I'm especially interested in how you securely mounted it to the box.

Have any doit yourselfers gotten the DirectTivo working yet?

Sorry for all the sort of open ended questions. I'm just getting started here and I'm looking to see if I need to reinvent the wheel.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to hone in on anyone that is doing this for profit. This is just my own little project.

Thanks alot,
Matt
The RP56 mode is pretty straight forward. You just tap the upper 8 bits and clock from the input to the SAGE chip. The first two bits D0 and D1 are grounded on the SAGE chip. (love that front panel advertising, "10 bit 54mhz DAC", yeah but the internal video buss is 8 bits) I use the word "tap" lightly. This is a QFP device and don't even try it without a magnifying lamp and micro top soldering iron. I tacked kynar wire-wrap wires to the SAGE chip and ran them to a perfboard with a 26p header. The legnth of these wires is about 5 inches. The perf board is mounted on stanf-offs where the RP56 decoder board screws down. The National board then connects to the header board with another 5 inch ordinary (not shielded or twisted) ribbon cable. My mod worked fine except the RP56 no longer output clean Svideo, comp video, or componet video with the National board connected. Found clock line was ringing like a SOB. Put a 100pf ceramic cap on the national board and that fixed everything. If you were to mount the national board closer, you may not have this problem. DO NOT INSTALL THE TERNINATOR PACKS ON THE NATIONAL BOARD.

Now I also have a DirecTivo and plan to modify that too. Some "for profit" members say this is more difficult and "requires special programming". But my initial resaerch shows the Phillips NTSC encoder chip they use inputs CCIR656 which implies the parallel signal has EAV/SAV. If not then I need to make a Xilinx chip to put it in. If you don't have access to Xilinx or Altera tools, the EAV/SAV adder can be made with 74HC parts and some PAL or GAL's. It will be a rather large board however and watch the power supply loading if you have two hard drives. Phillips TiVo's have a reputation for eating power supplies.

As soon as I do this I will post what I found.

One more thing about the Tivo. There is a tampering seal and you will void the warranty if you break it. But someone young and inexpereinced must have devised that. We all know self-stick labels don't like matte surfaces. That's what the top cover is painted with. With a little heat and carefull tugging with a tweezers, you can peel it off the top cover section. Do not try to remove it completly because it sticks real well to the steel chassis. Slip a piece of floppy disk label backing under it and that will keep it ready to re-apply.

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post #189 of 744 Old 04-30-2002, 12:41 PM
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Glimmie,

Thanks a lot. This is the kind of info that I'm looking for. I really look forward to your assessment of the Tivo. My tivo is pretty much already "warrany voided" what with the extra hard drive. At $100 a pop for the Tivo and $200 for the dvd, I'm not too terribly worried about messing them up.

I can't wait till my EVK's show up. Funny thing is, I'm more excited about actually making the mod than using it.

Thanks,
Matt
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post #190 of 744 Old 04-30-2002, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonfigleo
Funny thing is, I'm more excited about actually making the mod than using it.

Thanks,
Matt
Sounds very familiar!

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post #191 of 744 Old 04-30-2002, 07:22 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Glimmie

"Some "for profit" members say this is more difficult and "requires special programming". But my initial resaerch shows the Phillips NTSC encoder chip they use inputs CCIR656 which implies the parallel signal has EAV/SAV."

Not quite sure what to make of this Glimmie. Are you implying that I am "lying" to you about what is required?

FYI - the Phillips encoder is both 601/656 capable.

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post #192 of 744 Old 05-01-2002, 10:48 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Tom Strade
Quote:
Originally posted by Glimmie

"Some "for profit" members say this is more difficult and "requires special programming". But my initial resaerch shows the Phillips NTSC encoder chip they use inputs CCIR656 which implies the parallel signal has EAV/SAV."

Not quite sure what to make of this Glimmie. Are you implying that I am "lying" to you about what is required?

FYI - the Phillips encoder is both 601/656 capable.
Did I say you were wrong? No. did I say you were correct? No. I quoted what you said in a previous post when you announced the DirecTivo mod for sale. The term "for profit" was made origionally by another member. I just reused it. I also said I have not done any tests yet and will report my findings. If EAV/SAV are not on the buss, your claims are correct. If howeveer the buss is true 656, then there is not much to the modification.

I sense my post bothers you because I outlined in deatil one of your product modifications AS DONE BY MYSELF and not copied from your design. Well that's life on a public forum. And I will continue to answer questions and assist members attempting this themselves.

Please realize not to many members have the electronics background or access to the required test equipment to make these modifications. I think your business is quite safe.

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post #193 of 744 Old 05-01-2002, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glimmie


Did I say you were wrong? No. did I say you were correct? No. I quoted what you said in a previous post when you announced the DirecTivo mod for sale. The term "for profit" was made origionally by another member. I just reused it. I also said I have not done any tests yet and will report my findings. If EAV/SAV are not on the buss, your claims are correct. If howeveer the buss is true 656, then there is not much to the modification.

I sense my post bothers you because I outlined in deatil one of your product modifications AS DONE BY MYSELF and not copied from your design. Well that's life on a public forum. And I will continue to answer questions and assist members attempting this themselves.

Please realize not to many members have the electronics background or access to the required test equipment to make these modifications. I think your business is quite safe.
No, you sense wrong then. It has nothing to do with my business being safe. I don't mind you helping at all. If someone can do the mod themselves then more power to them. It's not at all difficult to do if you know what you are doing - which clearly you do.

I'm am just confused over the use of " " to emphasize - what appeared to me to be sarchasm, thus casting doubts on my claims. As if I have sooooo much to gain by lying to people in a public forum about the requirements to do the mod. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure what I've done to you or anyone on this forum to deserve that sort of commentary.

Tom Strade
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post #194 of 744 Old 05-01-2002, 12:10 PM
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Ummmmm....

Pana A310 mod ?. Not to change the subject or anything ....

Does anyone know what chip it uses and if its sav/eav friendly ?.
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post #195 of 744 Old 05-01-2002, 12:38 PM
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Haven't done one but it should be straight bt.656.

I may have a service manual around Chris if you want to drop me a line.

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post #196 of 744 Old 05-01-2002, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Strade


I'm not sure what I've done to you or anyone on this forum to deserve that sort of commentary.
Nothing at all. I always put comments by others in quotes. No offense was meant or implied.

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post #197 of 744 Old 05-01-2002, 05:19 PM
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I don't know how many people are reading this thread anymore but it seems to have, through the course of many months, wandered through a series of very different discussions. There actually is a very low percentage of it that is actually discussing the DIY approach to SDI modifications. This combined with the fact that it is in the video processor forum is probably obfuscating it from most possible interested parties.

What would you say to starting a new “DIY SDI Modification†thread and putting it in the HTPC forum? I suspect that most people that would be interested in this will also be going the SDI Silk and HTPC route for their scalars.

It took me over a week to decide that this was the thread that I needed to post to and it was mostly because of the unfocused nature of these discussions.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Matt
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post #198 of 744 Old 05-02-2002, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glimmie


The RP56 mode is pretty straight forward. You just tap the upper 8 bits and clock from the input to the SAGE chip. The first two bits D0 and D1 are grounded on the SAGE chip. (love that front panel advertising, "10 bit 54mhz DAC", yeah but the internal video buss is 8 bits) I use the word "tap" lightly. This is a QFP device and don't even try it without a magnifying lamp and micro top soldering iron. I tacked kynar wire-wrap wires to the SAGE chip and ran them to a perfboard with a 26p header. The legnth of these wires is about 5 inches. The perf board is mounted on stanf-offs where the RP56 decoder board screws down. The National board then connects to the header board with another 5 inch ordinary (not shielded or twisted) ribbon cable. My mod worked fine except the RP56 no longer output clean Svideo, comp video, or componet video with the National board connected. Found clock line was ringing like a SOB. Put a 100pf ceramic cap on the national board and that fixed everything. If you were to mount the national board closer, you may not have this problem. DO NOT INSTALL THE TERNINATOR PACKS ON THE NATIONAL BOARD...
The 10 bit DACs comment is absolutely hilarious! You think they would at least let those pins "float" to create a random dither generator. Tieing them to ground takes all the fun out of it. :)

A word on soldering advice. The techs at my work very rarely use fine point soldering tips even for the super-fine pitch stuff. They use a medium size flat faced tip 90+% of the time. It is hard to get the heat to transfer well with the super fine pitch tips. Rosin-core (RMA) liquid flux for soldering with 99% alcohol and Kem-wipes for clean-up.

The microscope is very important especially for inspection.

-Mr. Wigggles

The Mothership is now boarding.
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post #199 of 744 Old 05-02-2002, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonfigleo
I don't know how many people are reading this thread anymore but it seems to have, through the course of many months, wandered through a series of very different discussions. There actually is a very low percentage of it that is actually discussing the DIY approach to SDI modifications. This combined with the fact that it is in the video processor forum is probably obfuscating it from most possible interested parties.

What would you say to starting a new “DIY SDI Modification†thread and putting it in the HTPC forum? I suspect that most people that would be interested in this will also be going the SDI Silk and HTPC route for their scalars.

It took me over a week to decide that this was the thread that I needed to post to and it was mostly because of the unfocused nature of these discussions.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Matt
Good points but there are a lot of SDI users and wannabees that use hardware scalers and most of these do have SDI input options.

Tough question, that's what they pay the moderator for. LOL:D

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post #200 of 744 Old 05-02-2002, 01:31 PM
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I agree with Matt. I for one would appreciate a DIY SGI thread. I was interested, but am now "lost" trying to follow through this thread.
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post #201 of 744 Old 05-02-2002, 01:43 PM
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I hate to admit it but the main reason that I wanted to put it in the HTPC forum was so it would see more traffic. I would like to see a lot of people trying this on a lot of different equipment. Because the htpc crowd is larger, more likely to be willing to try diy, and cheap :), I thought that would be the best place.

I think that I will try to consilidate all the info that has been collected so far into something a bit more concise than 10 pages of posts. After I'm done, you all can edit it and we can decide were to put it.

The bottom line is that a think we need a diy specific thread. I'm not trying to undermine anyone that is trying to do this for a profit. If anything I think would help those that are selling this as a service. Right now there is a real lack of people posting positive results about sdi mods. Assuming we can establish good results from the dyi people, there will be a lot more buzz in general about this.

Thanks,
Matt
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post #202 of 744 Old 05-02-2002, 02:35 PM
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Go for it! I'll help if needed.

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post #203 of 744 Old 05-02-2002, 05:33 PM
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Actually, if there is enough interest I may be willing to put up a forum on my site dedicated to SDI discussion of all types. While I do not want to supply boards for DIY, I certainly don't mind trying to further evangelize SDI through use of my forum. After-all, that is why I started doing the mods to begin with.

Let me know if interested.

Tom

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post #204 of 744 Old 05-02-2002, 10:19 PM
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Ok, here is my first run at a compilation post. I'm hoping that we can tweek this out a little bit and start a new thread with it so that the information is a bit more compressed and more focused on DIY. Perhaps Glimmie's post about the rp56 can be the first follow up to this on the new thread to sort of get the ball rolling.

Feel free to rip this apart. I have no qualifcations to actually be doing this. Everything I know about SDI I learned here.

Thanks,
Matt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first record that I can find on this board of someone modifying a plain old piece of consumer electronics for SDI output is from about a year ago. In that time it seems that less interest has developed for this idea than I would have guessed. For such a relatively cheap and accessible modification that can be done to such a wide variety of devices I would have expected a lot more excitement.

What I am particularly interested in is the do it yourself aspect of this. There is certainly a higher than normal amount of technical skill involved in this sort of modification. It does not, however, have to be something only doable by the electrical engineering elite (eee from now on). If we can compile a good set of documentation about a wide range of devices with specific instruction, I lot more people will be able to enjoy a pure digital signal path. Obviously we need the help of the eee’s to accomplish this but I think we have a few of them on this board.

To this end I have attempted to compile as much information as I can from a year of posts. This is mostly taken from the “Poor man’s SDI†thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...128&perpage=20) There are quite a few contributors. Robert Cobler is the one that started the thread and obviously a lot of this is right out of his posts.


SDI Facts
SDI stands for Serial Digital Interface. In reality SDI is more of a protocol than a specific device. It does pretty much what it says -- serial communication of digital information. This makes it a very useful method for transporting digital data over relatively long distances. The data that we are interested in is 480i data. There is HD-SDI but that is a topic for another day (another year?).

What’s the goal of this?
What we are trying to do is high jack the parallel data coming out of the mpeg decoder of whatever device we are dealing with. Once we have this data, we convert it to serial so that we can send it off to be processed. This can be input into any device with a standard SDI input. These include many video processors and htpcs with SDI Silk cards. By doing this, the video processing is being done on a digital signal that has always been digital. (not really always, but it hasn’t been analog while in our possession at least) The processor can do a much better job with this data because it free of any of the artifacts that are introduced in analog to digital and digital to analog conversions. If you have a digital out on your processor and a digital in on your display device, you can successfully skip any conversions al together. Sounds fun right?

What is needed to perform the modification?
National Semiconductor's CLC020 digital video serializer with integrated cable driver seems be just what the doctor ordered. Conveniently, National makes an evaluation board (part # SD020EVK) with bnc outputs that basically has everything needed to do a modification to a SMPTE compliant device. This board is $100 and while it takes a while to get, does seem to be available from National Semiconductor’s distributors. We could of course use a design for a home made version of this if any of the eee’s are interested.

What sort of devices can be modified?
For starters the device needs to represent the video data digitally somewhere. That 1989 Sony VCR isn’t going to be modifiable. We’re talking about DVD players and set top boxes primarily here. These devices decode mpeg data into the digital video and then do their business with it (convert to analog, de-interlace, . . .) and output an analog signal via component, s-video, etc.) We need to grab the data after it is decoded from mpeg but before it gets to any of these other steps. For this reason the device must not have a mpeg decoder that is integrated with other pieces of this puzzle. Further the data needs to be SMPTE (whatever that means) compliant 8 bit parallel data. There also needs to be a 27mhz clock signal available for the evaluation board. If there is no clock signal available or the data is not compliant there is still the possibility of successfully modifying the device. It will just take more work and more help from an eee. What devices are these specifically? Well, part of the goal here is to find out. Right now it seems that Pioneer (727, 939A, 37, 38A, 444, 434, 545), Denon DVD3300, Technics A10, and Panasonic (A7, RP56, RP91) are fully compliant and modifyable. DirecTV Tivo’s, and Dish 6000 are not compliant but can be modified with more work. It seems likely that there are more.

What are the basics of this modification?
Given a fully qualifying device as listed above the installation is fairly straightforward if not simple. You simply solder a ribbon cable onto the device being modified and plug the other end into the SD020EVK board. Simply is probably not the right word as this is TINY stuff and fine tipped solder iron, a microscope/magnifier and some amount of skill working with surface mount devices is required. But heh, learn by doing, right?

What if my device has no clock or the signal is not SMPTE compliant?
All might not be lost. In all likelihood the clock is just hard to find. If it is inaccessible creating your own is a definite option. As for a non-compliant signal, well this is tougher. What seems to happen is the start of active video (SAV) and end of active video (EAV) signals are not present in the data. These have to be there. The only option is to add a programmable logic device into the equation that adds these signals. If this is done, everything else is the same.

What do we do now?
The goal is DIY SDI for the masses. If you have accomplished this on a player and wouldn’t mind sharing/showing off, lets have some specific instruction for the device that you have successfully modified. How about some close-ups of your soldering? How about some detailed descriptions of locations. Imagine that you have a group of technically savvy people that may be able to accomplish the physical task of soldering this together but probably don’t know an 8 bit parallel SMPTE compliant bus from a school bus. Create the instruction necessary for them to try and pull this off while only ruining a couple of DVD players.
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post #205 of 744 Old 05-03-2002, 12:27 AM
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I have been watching on the sidelines for a while and would love to see a DIY SDI project occur. If those people who have completed SDI mods were to take a few pictures and post their wiring I think people with the appropriate skills would undertake the project.

Rick
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post #206 of 744 Old 05-06-2002, 08:45 AM
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I can only assume that the lack of traffic on this forum is contributing to the lack of feedback that I've gotten on this new thread idea. I guess I'll wait to post it. I been thinking about it and I think that the post that imediately follows the above needs to be the one with explicite instructions for modifying the RP56.

I have a couple of the evk boards on the way and I'm trying to figure out how to get a silk card without having to buy a whole machine. Once I successfully mod the player and make sure it is working, I will take detailed pictures of my work and try to write up instructions that anyone with a soldering iron and enough guts can follow.

If anyone (glimmie) who has done this mod and wants some credit wants to do this first, be my guest. I can even host the pictures. If not, I'm thinking that I will start a new thread in the HTPC forum with the above post followed up by an attempt at detailed instructions for the common man to modify an rp56.

Thanks,
Matt
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post #207 of 744 Old 05-07-2002, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonfigleo
and I'm trying to figure out how to get a silk card without having to buy a whole machine.
Matt
I never understood this move either. The product was initially available as a card only. There were initial software issues but they were resolved very quickly. I can understand the problem of non computer savy users buying it and not having a clue to to install it. This would creat a big support burden for a small company. But a simple "qualifying card order question form" would address that.

I have one and am pleased with it. I also like the team who developed it. IMO, this must buy with a HTPC is a black eye on an otherwise great product. There are many users here with really good custom HTPC's and just want the card.

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

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post #208 of 744 Old 05-16-2002, 12:38 PM
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Just wanted to let everyone know that those evk kits do not appear to be difficult at all to obtain. I just got two of them from avnet in two weeks.

Haven't cracked open the rp56 yet. Still working on finishing the ht.

More later,
Matt
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post #209 of 744 Old 05-16-2002, 10:17 PM
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I don't know if anyone out there is still reading this thread but if so I have a question for someone that has looked into the Tivo. (I haven't even opened mine yet.)

Do we know what the data format for the Tivo is? I assume it is some "standard" 8 bit parallel signal. Is it, as we have seen in other non SMPTE complient devices BT.601?

Thanks in advance for any info.
Matt
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post #210 of 744 Old 05-17-2002, 06:18 AM
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It's bt.601.

Tom Strade
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