DVDO iScan VP30 - Page 21 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #601 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy Huff View Post

Given the generous trade-in policy from DVDO and the special AVS pricing on the VP30, it seems to me that there doesn't have to be an either/or choice between the VP30 and whatever comes next. If you need or want a scaler, might as well go ahead and enjoy the VP30 for however many months it takes. Not much to lose.

I think you're absolutely right. I have to remember what I'm actually going to pay for the VP30, given the VERY generous AVS pre-order price and the generous DVDO policies you speak of.

I appreciate everyone's input on this.

Thank you Mark for forwarding as much information to us as you possibly could without breaking rules and putting yourself in line for a lawsuit.

Threads like these are why I come to AVS.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #602 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:00 PM
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OK, let's do the math even though it will surely get me in trouble here. The thing will probably retail for $2500, we're paying $1100 less for the VP30 from AVS, we'll be offered a trade in no better than $1,000, I'm betting. But we'll be able to buy the new one for around $2 grand from AVS. Looks to me like we're leaving $400 on the table give or take. So we buy now or we buy in 6 months and keep the $400. Your choice.

This business about not talking price reminds me of growing up Catholic and not talking about Sex. It was like the elephant in the room, if you get my drift.

Dan

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post #603 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHouck View Post

OK, let's do the math even though it will surely get me in trouble here. The thing will probably retail for $2500, we're paying $1100 less for the VP30 from AVS, we'll be offered a trade in no better than $1,000, I'm betting. But we'll be able to buy the new one for around $2 grand from AVS. Looks to me like we're leaving $400 on the table give or take. So we buy now or we buy in 6 months and keep the $400. Your choice.

This business about not talking price reminds me of growing up Catholic and not talking about Sex. It was like the elephant in the room, if you get my drift.

Dan

D'oh!

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #604 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:04 PM
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Lawsuit? Gee. I have a degree in law too. No Videograbber. No degree in medicine. But Videograbber you are indeed giving me the third degree.
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post #605 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Keenan.

You rang..?

Quote:


Off the scale. Please.

Figure of speech, and only based on what "I think" and past releases of DVDO product, not on anything that I know as fact.

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Were you at Cedia?

No

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Did you talk to anybody at DVDO?

No

Quote:


I still luv ya.

I still luv ya too...
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post #606 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Yea. Great posts. Not. Videograbber you are clueless here. But I still luv ya.

Keenan. Off the scale. Please. Were you at Cedia? Did you talk to anybody at DVDO?

As I said, DVDO is saying nothing official yet. But they, starting at the very top, were optimistic that the new algorithms would be completed soon. Soon being a month or so. Because they are writing the firmware etc, one would imagine from a software perspective it would be relatively easy to incorporate a new chip in with its existing control system/platforms. Thus, they were optimistic that it wouldn't take long to bring a VP40 or whatever it will be called to market.

Not everyone needs 1080p. I do not think the VP40 would replace the VP30. After all, it will be more expensive too.

Let's see. Videograbber. Competitors have announced 1080i motion adaptive deinterlacers for early Q4 this year (Algolith (Realta))), and for Q2 next year (Lumagen(Realta)). Calibre's Realta based Vantage-HD is available now. Anthem will have the Gennum in its full sound/video processor in 2 months. Then there is the Crystalio II with the Gennum. When that is coming I do not know. There are more coming too. Waiting till Q4 next year will be way too late. DVDO or ABT wants to sell chips as well as processors. No big bucks in processors. End of the rainbow pot of gold for chips. So exactly how long can DVDO or ABT wait to have a super chip ready? And how long can they wait to join their processor competitors. A year from now? Please. Time is of the essence for success.

Like I said. Wait for the DVDO announcements. Sorry. Guys I call em on the best information I have. I keep info confidential when I am asked. I do not engage in unfounded speculation. I do not work for any processor company. I do do some beta testing and I do own an A/V store.

Oh yea. Videograbber. I am also an engineer and unlike some (but not all) others posting here, I do understand a little bit about this stuff. I am sorry. But you have ruffled my feathers. I still luv ya.

Mark,

If DVDO is going to make an ASIC it is going take nine months after they
finalized algorithms to make this happen ( go to layout, tape out, test,
etc. ). What is more likely is an FPGA based video processor out in the
shorter term and their own chip out in the longer term.

Even with this, it would make no sense to release two products within
months of each other unless one would be substantially higher end
at a substantially higher m.s.r.p. - say at least $2999...

Best regards,

Tony
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post #607 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:08 PM
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We're probably well on our way to getting this thread locked or deleted.

Hiya Mark! When you coming to New Mexico??

Dan

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post #608 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:13 PM
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Dan. When it comes to sex, there is no need to talk about it. Like the Nike ads say, just do it.
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post #609 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:24 PM
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Tony. I know they just came out with the VP30. I think HDMI drove that out together with a need to at least primitively (god, bob) 1080i deinterlacing. But the market is rapidly changing. The Gennum and Realta chips have changed the landscape much as the old DVDO chips, the Faroudja chips, and the Silicon Optics chips did in the past. If DVDO wants to play with the big boys, it can't buy chips from them. It must have and sell its own chip. Sure it could use a FPGA until its chips are made. But it can't use somebody elses algs or somebody's specific chip. If indeed its own chip is nine months away, it must get its algs on a FPGA and get a new processor out there to demonstrate its algs, pronto. I still say the VP40 will be here on or close to the schedule I have opined on. And I said between $2500 and $3000. Sure $3000 makes more sense to me. Let's just wait until DVDO makes an official announcement.
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post #610 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Let's just wait until DVDO makes an official announcement.

Fair enough :-)
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post #611 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Given the AVS Forum pricing, regardless of when the our next product comes out, you don't stand to lose much, if any, money when you upgrade.

Just do the math:

AVS Forum Pre-Order Price
$1999 MSRP

vs.

$1000 (iScan HD+ Trade-In Value)
$1499 MSRP

Josh Allen
DVDO Product Manager
Josh@DVDO.com
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post #612 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 06:38 PM
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Josh. Welcome back. Now that you are here, I can catch a few zzzzzs. Of course, others might say if I am asleep, this would be the only time for you to safely catch a few zzzzs too. Now Dale, he never sleeps.
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post #613 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 06:47 PM
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Hi Guys!
Now for the most obvious question for those who have seen VP30 in action: How does VP30 do for SD/DVD material compared to HD/HD+?

Vinod
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post #614 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Vinod - I think it would be hard to comment on that as the HD+ we had in our booth was driving a Brillian 65" 1080p and the iScan VP30 we had set up in an A/B comparison with two 50" plasmas (1366x768).

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post #615 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 08:06 PM
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Josh: Maybe I'm missing something with your comments...

Are you saying DVDO hasn't compared the performance between the HD+ and your new scaler the VP30?

Ron

PS: I wanted to talk to someone directly at your offices to answer a couple of quesitons about the VP30. I left a message, but no call back. I tried again later in the day and still got the answering machine. Is there a good time to generally call? thanks

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post #616 of 6829 Old 09-12-2005, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Ron - What I was trying to say is if Vinod was asking for comments from people other than myself, I wanted to explain the only experience they would have had with the VP30 and how it would be difficult for them to come to a conclusion. The simple answer is that high frequency detail is resolved better with 10-bit scaling vs. the HD+'s 9-bit scaling, but it also depends on your screen size and resolution when determining the improvement.

The only reason you could not reach anyone is that most of the sales team just came back from CEDIA today and more than likely the available staff was handling other calls. If you call between 9am and 5pm Pacific Time Monday-Friday you will get a human being.

Josh Allen
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post #617 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 01:31 AM
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Hi Josh,

will the VP30 have a gamma-equalizer like the Lumagen video processors?

The Lumagen gamma-equalizer allows 11 free defineable IRE points (e.g. 12 IRE, 23 IRE etc.). For each defined point you can set the R, G, and B levels. This allows a perfect calibration of every display regarding color balance and gamma tracking.

If not, could we expect such a feature for a (near) future firmware update?

Thanks.

Best regards
Bernhard
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post #618 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

Ron - What I was trying to say is if Vinod was asking for comments from people other than myself, I wanted to explain the only experience they would have had with the VP30 and how it would be difficult for them to come to a conclusion. The simple answer is that high frequency detail is resolved better with 10-bit scaling vs. the HD+'s 9-bit scaling, but it also depends on your screen size and resolution when determining the improvement.

The only reason you could not reach anyone is that most of the sales team just came back from CEDIA today and more than likely the available staff was handling other calls. If you call between 9am and 5pm Pacific Time Monday-Friday you will get a human being.


Got it-thanks for the quick response. I appreciate it. Even though I have been keeping up on all of the great CEDIA reports....like an idiot, I completely forgot to factor that into the call factor. Thanks Again

Ron

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post #619 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 07:15 AM
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fellas,

Lets keep the VP40 discussions on a dedicated thread. It has nothing to do with the VP30.

Any info on the VP40 at this point is irrelevant and is not helping anyone who might be interested in purchasing VP30. Once we have official info from DVDO, lets create a dedicated thread for that.

Lets keep this thread in focus - VP30.

Mark Haflich,

I think everyone has already figured out your feelings towards Sil504 and video deinterlacing + 1080i bob.

Lets not keep shooting the dead horse, it's dead already... Everyone understands the pros and cons of this and so it's time for us to move to other aspects of the product.

My thread locking finger is itching, but I REALLY hate locking threads (particularly product oriented ones).

Lets keep Rhetoric to an acceptable level and keep this thread on target.

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
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post #620 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bejoro View Post

Hi Josh,

will the VP30 have a gamma-equalizer like the Lumagen video processors?

If not, could we expect such a feature for a (near) future firmware update?

At launch, the iScan VP30 will not have gamma control.

Let me preface this next statement by saying that we don't talk about upcoming features (or products for that matter ) until they are much closer to release. Gamma control is a very interesting feature and we understand the value both to the customer and their calibrator.

Josh Allen
DVDO Product Manager
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post #621 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Their will eventually be an iScan VP40, this is a logical progression in the naming convention, and it will incorporate more ABT technologies. The time frames being discussed are not reality.

Josh Allen
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post #622 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

...The time frames being discussed are not reality.

Didn't think so!

Thanks for clearing that up Josh.
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post #623 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 10:41 AM
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That's what I needed to know, thanks Josh. Think I'll go ahead and get my VP30. Hope it's feelings don't get hurt by sitting on top of a Faroudja NRS in my rack.

(for those of you who don't know, I'm going to continue to process my SD sources through the Faroudja).

Sorry I wasn't at Cedia to come by and personally thank you for your participation on this forum. Thanks!

My HT is an oldie but goodie!
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post #624 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

Their will eventually be an iScan VP40, this is a logical progression in the naming convention, and it will incorporate more ABT technologies. The time frames being discussed are not reality.



I didn't think so, either.

Thank you Josh! I'm really glad you made it into this thread to set the record completely straight and clear up any potential misconceptions or misunderstandings.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #625 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 08:37 PM
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I am going to be trading in my Iscan HD for the VP30, and I am trying to figure out the best way to connect everything. Here is what I am using. Mits 65813 RPTV. Motorola 6200 HD cable box with dvi out, or component, Zenith SAT HD520 with dvi, or component out, Denon 3910 SDI out, JVC 5U with dvi, or component out. I am currently not running my cable box, JVC 5U, or hd from the SAT into the Iscan. So I have the Iscan connected to the Mits via HD-15 to 3 rca. This tv also has a dvi input. I would like to be able to connect my cable box, JVC 5U, and the SAT 520 into the VP30. So tell me if this would work. Motorola 6200 via dvi>hdmi>VP30, then coaxial digital into VP30. JVC 5U hdmi>VP30. Zenith SAT HD250 via component>VP30, then optical into VP30. I want to be able to view both SD and HD material from the Motorola 6200, and the Zenith SAT HD520. I also want to be able to process 720p to 1080I or 540p. So, as far as connecting the VP30 to my Mits, should I go HDMI>DVI>Mits, or component out of the VP30 to component into the Mits?
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post #626 of 6829 Old 09-13-2005, 08:56 PM
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You would need to use the HDMI out. Any content with HDCP won't go through the analog outputs.

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post #627 of 6829 Old 09-14-2005, 10:07 AM
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Well I guess the preorder deadline is going to come and go without a review. Very disappointing for us fence sitters
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post #628 of 6829 Old 09-14-2005, 10:20 AM
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That's why it is a preorder - you are buying sight unseen, and getting a nice break as payment. You can also do what I usually do, wait till the tail end of the product cycle, after everything is known, we are all sick of hearing about the item, and there are a couple generations of new gear available. Prices are usually REALLY nice then, also.

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post #629 of 6829 Old 09-14-2005, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3lions View Post

Well I guess the preorder deadline is going to come and go without a review. Very disappointing for us fence sitters


I can understand how you would like to read a review prior to buying. But, as the other member described the typical "cycle"...we are in phase 1. The phase where early adopters, who have either past DVDO products (ie HD or HD+) know what we are getting into and love the product. That's why so many are interested in their trade-in program.

But for those new to the game, there is something better than a review, it's called a demo period. The period of time DVDO allows customers to try their products in THEIR systems. See for yourself, instead of someone telling you what you should like or not like (let's face it how many times does the person doing the review have the exact same set-up as you...NEVER, since their set up, if the same, isn't in your specific home enviroment).

Here is a copy of their 30 day guarantee:

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_sat.php

Just a thought, instead of waiting...

GL
Ron

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post #630 of 6829 Old 09-14-2005, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

I can understand how you would like to read a review prior to buying. But, as the other member described the typical "cycle"...we are in phase 1. The phase where early adopters, who have either past DVDO products (ie HD or HD+) know what we are getting into and love the product. That's why so many are interested in their trade-in program.

But for those new to the game, there is something better than a review, it's called a demo period. The period of time DVDO allows customers to try their products in THEIR systems. See for yourself, instead of someone telling you what you should like or not like (let's face it how many times does the person doing the review have the exact same set-up as you...NEVER, since their set up, if the same, isn't in your specific home enviroment).

Here is a copy of their 30 day guarantee:

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_sat.php

Just a thought, instead of waiting...

GL
Ron


There's simply no way to lose, given that combined with the AVS preorder price.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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