Belkin launch "in cable" video processor - PureAV RazorVision - AVS Forum
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Video Processors > Belkin launch "in cable" video processor - PureAV RazorVision
StooMonster's Avatar StooMonster 01:35 PM 11-08-2005
Belkin have announced a new range of DVI and HDMI cables called RazorVision, which utilise a "microprocessor" to improve the picture quality.

They claim benefits are: more image depth, increased contrast and visible details, brighter whites and blacker blacks, restored levels of details lost to glare and shadows, no edge-outline “halo†sometimes caused by other video processors.

They also claim: works with all DVD and VCR players, PVRs, game consoles, PCs, and digital and analog cable, satellite, and off-air antenna sources.

http://www.pureav.com/razorvision/

$249.99

RazorVision's video processor is a DigiVision DV1000 http://www.digivision.com/ (thanks Joe Fernand, TMF) -- a chip used for image enhancement in medical, industrial, military and homeland security applications.

QuickTime streaming demo: http://www.digivision.com/consumer_e...long_high.html

WMP download demo: http://www.digivision.com/videos/clip1_500.wmv

Internal 4:4:4 processing, automatic format detection, NTSC or PAL, 480i through 1080p, "The DV1000 features a locally adaptive enhancement that allows for bringing out fine details in light and dark areas simultaneously. The chip also does some chroma processing and large convolution kernel real-time enhancement."

http://www.digivision.com/images/con...nced_tiger.jpg

"Does the DV1000 work with line doublers/scalers?
Yes, the DV1000 works with virtually any line doubler or scaler on the market. The DV1000 typically is installed after the doubler/scaler for best results."

Have to say that the videos look quite impressive, anyone seen one of these in real life?

StooMonster
Thread is posted here too

joerod's Avatar joerod 07:47 PM 12-14-2005
I am picking one up tomorrow and plan to post my findings in the evening. I will be using it with a monster 35 foot HDMI cable to Optoma H79 pj. I will test a Directv HD TIVO, Onkyo SP1000 and JVC HM5 U out of a TX1000 receiver. We shall "see" soon if it works. I began posting about this RAZORVISION in the cable section...I guess since it "enhances" video that is a video processor subject as well...
Q of BanditZ's Avatar Q of BanditZ 07:53 PM 12-14-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod
I am picking one up tomorrow and plan to post my findings in the evening. I will be using it with a monster 35 foot HDMI cable to Optoma H79 pj. I will test a Directv HD TIVO, Onkyo SP1000 and JVC HM5 U out of a TX1000 receiver. We shall "see" soon if it works. I began posting about this RAZORVISION in the cable section...I guess since it "enhances" video that is a video processor subject as well...
You let me know what you think of that.
Carled's Avatar Carled 10:12 PM 12-14-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by StooMonster
Internal 4:4:4 processing, automatic format detection, NTSC or PAL, 480i through 1080p, "The DV1000 features a locally adaptive enhancement that allows for bringing out fine details in light and dark areas simultaneously. The chip also does some chroma processing and large convolution kernel real-time enhancement."

http://www.digivision.com/images/con...nced_tiger.jpg

"Does the DV1000 work with line doublers/scalers?
Yes, the DV1000 works with virtually any line doubler or scaler on the market. The DV1000 typically is installed after the doubler/scaler for best results."
Okay, so it's a video enhancer that does black enhancement, sharpening, chroma enhancement amoung other things.

What we need is to install one of these into a properly calibrated signal chain and test it out using Avia and DVE. I must say I'm sceptical, but I'll at least give it a chance to prove itself.
Abbas's Avatar Abbas 12:11 AM 12-15-2005
I downloaded and read the manual from Belkin. Per the manual, the devices only support 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. 1080p is not supported!
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 12:44 AM 12-15-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
Okay, so it's a video enhancer that does black enhancement, sharpening, chroma enhancement amoung other things.

What we need is to install one of these into a properly calibrated signal chain and test it out using Avia and DVE. I must say I'm sceptical, but I'll at least give it a chance to prove itself.
I'm skeptical as well since judging from the picture above it appears it does what a Mosquito claims to do for 1/10 the cost...a little hard to believe...stranger things have happened though...
1920x1080's Avatar 1920x1080 01:44 AM 12-15-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan
I'm skeptical as well since judging from the picture above it appears it does what a Mosquito claims to do for 1/10 the cost...
The only overlap I see with a Mosquito is detail enhancement and a Mosquito does a lot more than detail enhancement. The heavy lifting a Mosquito does includes all the motion-related processing such as temporal filtering, MPEG noise reduction and block artifact reduction.

I find it hard to believe that the RazorVision could pull all that hair detail out from the fur on top of the nose. That would be spooky if it were real...imagine what you could do with Google Earth...
Carled's Avatar Carled 02:12 AM 12-15-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1920x1080
I find it hard to believe that the RazorVision could pull all that hair detail out from the fur on top of the nose. That would be spooky if it were real...imagine what you could do with Google Earth...
I can just imagine the CIA bursting forth from Blackhawk helicopters to raid cheapo home theatres so they could upgrade their satalite imaging systems. Hah, what a crack up.
joerod's Avatar joerod 02:56 AM 12-15-2005
I will know later if it is a myth...My My setup is ISF calibrated and I plan on using AVIA to test it. I will report back when I have made some conclusions...
Carled's Avatar Carled 04:04 AM 12-15-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod
I will know later if it is a myth...My My setup is ISF calibrated and I plan on using AVIA to test it. I will report back when I have made some conclusions...
Most excellent.
joerod's Avatar joerod 07:35 PM 12-15-2005
My initial impressions are in...I got home a little while ago and hooked up the RAZORVISION...I have not had a chance to do much testing but early on I am pleased at the result it achieves. I have tried it with my JVC HM5 U and I, Robot. Then I went to the new StarWars, followed by the Incredibles.. Right away I was impressed at what it did with my Onkyo SP1000 in its loading screen. The word ONKYO was in perfect block letters that were very sharp and clear... I have had a DVDO ISCAN HD+ hooked up before and I can say it has NEVER dramaticaly changed my contrast and sharpness like this...I know it seems crazy, but it does add quite a "pop" to the picture. So much that I have it on its lowest setting...The split mode is cool because I can pause my DVDs or I,robot (DTHEATER) and see what this thing is doing. You can also put it in bypass mode and see the picture without it doing a thing...I have just finished doing some AVIA tweaking and am getting ready for a second round...This little circuit box plugs into power and is easy to operate. A remote would be nice but since it is mounted in my CMA30 chief ceiling mount you don't even know it is there and adjustments are easy to make. I so far have not seen any noise additions or ringing in the picture. I plan to put it to the test tomorrow with some of the bad dvds. In the Incredibles I went to the scene where they are in the water and it looked 3D! Also Dash running thru the forest had that extra "pop" to it. I plan to watch more and evaluate it further since the movies I put in are a no brainer to look better (if you add more image depth and whiter whites with blacker blacks). The last thing I noticed was the inkiest (is that a word?) black level. I had to adjust bright some to keep up! I will show some pics this weekend to whoever wants to see them. I will do a split picture(half screen enhanced and half normal), and one with the level and one without...joerod55@msn.com So far I do not have an urge to return it. More soon.......
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 07:41 PM 12-15-2005
Thanks for the report, I guess I will have to try one of these myself. Where did you buy it?
joerod's Avatar joerod 07:45 PM 12-15-2005
Circuit City has them. They come with either 8 foot HDMI cables (2x 4 foot) or 16 foot (2x 8 foot)...I got it there in case I need to return it.
westa6969's Avatar westa6969 07:46 PM 12-15-2005
I've seen it posted for sale at J&R website. Have been waiting to see feedback myself before committing. Looks promising - Advantage CC they have free shipping on theirs :)
megaman_y's Avatar megaman_y 07:50 PM 12-15-2005
HEH...

Could this be the Momitsu of video processors..?
joerod's Avatar joerod 07:58 PM 12-15-2005
I hope a few others do try it so I know I am not crazy. I am using an Optoma H79 with a Vutec Silverstar VisionX 120.5" screen. I also did speak with a Belkin rep who said they did not do any real testing with 1080p (which is why it is not indicated for it) and said it probably would work with it. I am not really worried about 1080p now so to me it does not matter...Well, off to do some more playing!
Carled's Avatar Carled 10:40 PM 12-15-2005
I'm almost tempted to give it a go myself, but given the price I'll hold off for the moment at least.

A/B screenshots would be good.
Bytehoven's Avatar Bytehoven 11:40 PM 12-15-2005
Very interesting.

Although the quicktime movie is probably not the best reference, I think I can see...

Some alaising
Some motion lag, which you can slightly notice on the zebra
Some extra ringing on complex textures

I would like to have seen samples showing the difference between the LOW MID & HI settings.

I'll have to check my local CC to see if they have this baby.

Keep the reports coming
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 12:17 AM 12-16-2005
If my local CC carried it I would certainly give it a try, but as it is, I would have to get it from their online site and I don't know if I want to go through that, just yet anyway...still, it does seem to have a rather striking effect. Be interesting to see exactly what's inside the box...it reminds me of those expensive audio cables with the little "network" boxes on the ends...images are a whole lot more objective though.
Li On's Avatar Li On 12:51 AM 12-16-2005
This sounds so familiar to those big buck audio cable! :D Will there be a analog version for component/RGB video? Man it crack me up! LOL! :D

regards,

Li On
Q of BanditZ's Avatar Q of BanditZ 07:34 AM 12-16-2005
I wonder how much of this will be psychological? Like you THINK you see an improvement? ;)

Something like these reminds me of something like this: http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12...at-7-2005.html

:rolleyes:
joerod's Avatar joerod 08:06 AM 12-16-2005
No Q, there is definitely an improvemnet in sharpness. Lastnite I kept unhooking it altogether and then hooking it back up. Today, I plan to spend the day testing. The RazorVision does do some tricks with the picture. It can really add more white and black to the picture. To much is to much though. If you can find a good level (probably low) and adjust with it I think it can make the picture more pleasing. I am a fan of sharper, crisper, images. If I can achieve it without edge enhancement and ringing, then I will be keeping this. So far, I have not seen any signs of it...Let the testing begin...
Free's Avatar Free 08:09 AM 12-16-2005
I have the old Digivision HT70e, and don't use it because it looked artificial to me. I am wondering if they improved this, and since it handles 720p now, and is incorporated into an HDMI cable, I am definately going to try it.
Q of BanditZ's Avatar Q of BanditZ 09:42 AM 12-16-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod
No Q, there is definitely an improvemnet in sharpness. Lastnite I kept unhooking it altogether and then hooking it back up. Today, I plan to spend the day testing. The RazorVision does do some tricks with the picture. It can really add more white and black to the picture. To much is to much though. If you can find a good level (probably low) and adjust with it I think it can make the picture more pleasing. I am a fan of sharper, crisper, images. If I can achieve it without edge enhancement and ringing, then I will be keeping this. So far, I have not seen any signs of it...Let the testing begin...
I'll look forward to yours, and others feedback. I'm sure you can understand and appreciate some skepticism going into this, though. ;)

It certainly will be cool if this thing ends up coming out with flying colors, so to speak.
schenkelini's Avatar schenkelini 10:04 AM 12-16-2005
This reminds me of a company that I saw at CES 3 or 4 years ago. They had a DVD player that contained some sort of circuitry which they claimed similar results. This was supposed to work on SD TV's as well. They had a whole bunch of them set up with all different kinds of TV's using split screens. The displays were very convincing. I was so impressed that I called the company later to see who they signed up to distribute this player so I could buy one. I was told that they had attracted the attention of a "big company" at CES and were in negotiations to be purchased. Belkin? They said that they were not sure if the DVD player that they were displaying would ever go into production.
vancouver's Avatar vancouver 12:47 PM 12-16-2005
Quick question...are the cable fixed to the processor or can they be pulled out?
stlblufan's Avatar stlblufan 12:56 PM 12-16-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver
Quick question...are the cable fixed to the processor or can they be pulled out?
I don't have one but from the picture it looks like they pull out.

http://www.pureav.com/images/razorvision/AV61400-08.jpg
Bytehoven's Avatar Bytehoven 01:46 PM 12-16-2005
I picked up RazorVision today from my local CC.

I accidently picked up the 16' cable version, which costs $299. The $249 version has the 6' cable.

I'll play around with the device and see what I can see.

I'll be using an OPPO 971H and Moto HD cable as the sources to the Sony HS-51.

I checked out the demo on one of the HD displays at CC. It looked pretty good and they had it set to LOW.

I'll be sure to throw up the usual test patterns and run through the HQV disc. I'll also take a look at my new full range, 0-100% video level pattern with 1% steps, to see if any part of the luminance range is compressed.

Incidently, the cables are not attached to the processor, they pull out. The processor has female HDMI ports on both ends. So you could buy either version and be able to switch HDMI/DVI or HDMI/HDMI.

I presume the device would support DVI/DVI if you plugged a HDMI/DVI cable on either side of the processor.
1920x1080's Avatar 1920x1080 01:59 PM 12-16-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod
...I have just finished doing some AVIA tweaking and am getting ready for a second round...
Just wondering how the Avia tweaks were coming along. Any white crush? How do the gray ramps look--still linear near the extremes? Is 10 IRE gray still distinct from 0 IRE?

The Quicktime High demo video show lots of almost stark contrast in the well-lit scenes and I couldn't believe the detail it was pulling out of the ground and background of the zebra scene--I couldn't see anything it could even correlate to. It was like pulling detail out of brown and gray goo...
Bytehoven's Avatar Bytehoven 02:33 PM 12-16-2005
OK, that was fast.

The RazorVision is a very interesting device.

IN one aspect, RazorVision appears to act similar to a GAMMA control, working mainly in the 20-80% video range, making the luminance values brighter. But it does so in a different way. You notice a bloom, drop shadow effect on the lighter side of a dark/light contrast area. Switching from LOW to MED to HI causes the effect to increase. To some degree, it looks a little like how the NEC Sweetvision process added seperation between light/dark contrast, but SweetVision offered a little more control and a cleaner process with no shadowing beyond a few pixels. The RazorVision on MED and especially HI, offers a little too much effect.

However, It is an interesting image processing effect.

I found I could see some additional noise in solid color patterns, particularly in the 40-80% video range. So a DVD with some mpeg or film grain noise/detail issues, exhibited an increase in noise artifacts by their being made darker and more defined. This is also seems related to how the process adds or increases sharpness.

The AVIA 200 TVL and moving resolution pattern did not show any additional ringing, but mpeg noise around dark letters and along dark lines was increased and more defined.

Initial conclusion... I can achieve a contrast and sharpness benefit by boosting my projectors GAMMA and sharpness, but without any of the blooming effect or enhanced mpeg/grain noise.

I commend the product for trying to push the envelope. A little more user control over the parameters could make the device a more useful video processing tool.

I might note there was a UBS port next to the power supply port, so the device may be capable of some custom programming or updates.
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