It's November where's my Dragonfly?? - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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Video Processors > It's November where's my Dragonfly??
oferlaor's Avatar oferlaor 11:51 PM 05-26-2006
PedroV, also, the denon player has a huge box (lots of air circulation)...

I think there's a weight issue too - if you don't use a fan, you have to use a big heavy copper heatsink that can easily double the DF's weight (= more expensive shipping). There's already a heat sink on the Realta, but the Dragon fly is not much heavier than the mosquito, so I think that might be the reasoning.

The fan on the unit I saw was running pretty quietly (although I hope they run it even a tad slower).
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javry's Avatar javry 07:38 AM 05-27-2006
I sent an email to them last night saying that I was an AVS member and had ordered the bundle a little over a year ago and was wondering, since the DF was shipping, when I could expect to hear from them. Guess what, I actually got a reply back within a couple of hours. Here's a copy........

Quote:
You are correct, Dragonfly's are shipping and Jason is receiving units each week. I've CC'd him here, and he will be better able to answer your questions about delivery.

Regards,
Robert Young
Vice President - Sales & Marketing

Algolith
400 Isabey
Montreal, Qc
H4T 1V3 Canada
.....so I guess it's all about Jason at this point.
Javry
Jase H's Avatar Jase H 08:09 AM 05-27-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor
PedroV, also, the denon player has a huge box (lots of air circulation)...
And it has plenty of ventilation holes, unlike most other DVD players.
mbrian's Avatar mbrian 08:56 AM 05-30-2006
Can component input go to HDMI output?
A lot of delay in debut!
So I am expecting that!
Luca's Avatar Luca 09:03 AM 05-30-2006
NO, unfortunately
wjchan's Avatar wjchan 09:59 AM 05-30-2006
That's a MAJOR flaw! I hope it can be corrected with a firmware update.
javry's Avatar javry 12:24 PM 05-30-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrian
Can component input go to HDMI output?
A lot of delay in debut!
So I am expecting that!

if I'm nor mistaken, the signal going from component video has already been converted to analog......while the signal outputting from HDMI is still digital. I think that's the "principal" reason why you can't go from component out to an HDMI in. Ofer..... your thoughts?
Javry
Frank Kondilis's Avatar Frank Kondilis 03:52 PM 05-30-2006
I received a FedEx tracking number today for my Dragonfly with a scheduled delivery date of 1-June. If it arrives on schedule I should be able to post over the weekend with a report. (My Pre-Order was March-2005.)
oferlaor's Avatar oferlaor 12:04 AM 05-31-2006
I see no technical reason why analog inputs cannot be redirected to the HDMI output, other than misinterpretation of the HDMI and HDCP directives.

I seriously hope the consider my recommendation to make sure that we don't have to run two cables between the processor and the unit (a digital and analog one).

I can already report that deinterlacing is phenomenal (2:2 was flawless as far as I'm concerned). There are no test patterns in the initial version, nor custom timing yet, but there are a lot of preset resolutions. I was unable to test the quality of the scaling because of the timing issue, but it looks pretty good. Projector owners will love the keystone correction features, they are very nice (nicely enough, they introduce far less artifacts than I typically see with software based keystone correction).

I don't have a unit anymore and the one I had was an early beta, so I can only comment briefly on what I saw (it doesn't necessarily reflect on what would be in the final product, of course).
madshi's Avatar madshi 12:42 AM 05-31-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor
I can already report that deinterlacing is phenomenal (2:2 was flawless as far as I'm concerned).
Knowing that you like the ABT102 deinterlacing, the use of the word "phenomenal" makes me wonder, whether you found the DF even better in terms of deinterlacing than the ABT102?

Thanks!!
oferlaor's Avatar oferlaor 01:12 AM 06-01-2006
madshi,

Indeed, the difference is not huge. Where the ABT102 would occasionally fail on tough material, HQV was able to do even slightly better. I find that the algorithms are compareable, I mean in most ordinary content, you would be hard pressed to see a difference. Tough content can swing either way. The DF's deblocking can really make an SD picture look pretty good, but there are tradeoffs (e.g., in the angle/jaggie removal - some things would look better using DF and some with the ABT102).

It's early days yet, but the DF looks like a really solid processor in terms of deinterlacing and scaling. I liked some parts of it better than others (e.g., the quality of the keystone correction is something I haven't seen in comparable processors as yet). It was comparing apples to oranges, though because of the digital/analog in/out issue.

It also did very well with my 1080i content, but what I saw was an early beta and there were several things that weren't up to spec. It's obvious they're working hard to improve things and I believe they are not going to stop there.

functionally wise, this is not a feature laden processor, its focus is primarily on PQ and more on projector owners than for other displays.
madshi's Avatar madshi 01:38 AM 06-01-2006
Thanks Ofer, I appreciate your comments.

If the DF had no fan, I'd be seriously tempted, cause I love the small form factor and input/output wise my needs are quite limited anyway. But I just hate fans. I guess I'll wait and see what VP50 and Lumagen's Radiance will bring to the table. Crystalio II and DragonFly are not readily available yet, anyway...

It seems that we'll have a wide choice of great VPs to choose from soon. Too bad that the wait is killing me. And I'd so love to have a good HD video deinterlacer for the soccer world cup. But well, I guess, I'll have to live with bobbing for a few more months.
c722's Avatar c722 08:20 AM 06-01-2006
Ofer: how abt its scaling ? I remember u like Lumagen's scaling over other products. Now with the DF in the loop how would you rate them ?

Thanks.
mauricef's Avatar mauricef 03:08 PM 06-01-2006
I just received a response from Algolith concerned the analog to HDMI support. They said conversion from analog to HDMI will be supported in the June software update. This is very good news.

Maurice
Mark Petersen's Avatar Mark Petersen 03:57 PM 06-01-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
I just received a response from Algolith concerned the analog to HDMI support. They said conversion from analog to HDMI will be supported in the June software update. This is very good news.

Maurice
Great news! This makes the Dragonfly a keeper for me.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 05:03 PM 06-01-2006
I love it. No one has one yet. Supposedly somebody here will get it today, June 1, and we are already talking about a JUNE software update. Sounds more like a running software change to me. I am looking forward to getting mine shortly but I am going to wait a couple of weeks until the 3rd or 4th software update is out. :)
Brett's Avatar Brett 05:19 PM 06-01-2006
Hi Guys,

I can't believe it. Back when the initial announcement was made, it seemed that at long last a Teranex for Joe Six-Packs like me was in the cards. I was about to jump the gun and preorder, when other more serious things pulled me away from HT altogether - yes, sometimes, there are more compelling things.

Then I come back a year and a half later, wondering if it is now old hat, and if something bigger and better has swept it into oblivion. All to find out that nobody ever got one? This makes the Rock (sorry Phil) lose its first place in the Guiness Book! Amazing. After hearing this sore treatment "without explanation" of their customers, even if this combo is the best in the west, I'll wait it out until a competitor matches or betters them - and probably for cheaper.

Cheers,
Mark Petersen's Avatar Mark Petersen 10:14 PM 06-01-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
I love it. No one has one yet. Supposedly somebody here will get it today, June 1, and we are already talking about a JUNE software update. Sounds more like a running software change to me. I am looking forward to getting mine shortly but I am going to wait a couple of weeks until the 3rd or 4th software update is out. :)
Maybe we have to piece together our own Dragonfly. Step one - get the June SW update. Step two - get the SO HQV reference board. Step three - go to Radio Shack and get an AC power cord. Step four - ..... :D
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 04:03 AM 06-02-2006
I think we have seen from the other new processors out there that users quickly discover problems that the manufacturer didn't know existed at the time of release. Sometimes these problems take months to cure. Needed improvements to deinterlacing may be beyond the processor manufacturer's control, residing with the chip manufacturer. This could even apply to scaling well if the processor manufacturer relies on scaling from the chip manufacturer.
javry's Avatar javry 07:18 PM 06-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
I just received a response from Algolith concerned the analog to HDMI support. They said conversion from analog to HDMI will be supported in the June software update. This is very good news.

Maurice
I too think this is huge. I don't know of anoher scaler setup that that does this.
Javry
javry's Avatar javry 07:21 PM 06-02-2006
If I understand things based on everyones comments....and Ofer's review notes, we can be cautiously optomistic that we have a winer on our hands? Is it too early to make that statement?
Javry
Josh@dvdo's Avatar Josh@dvdo 12:35 AM 06-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry
I too think this is huge. I don't know of anoher scaler setup that that does this.
Javry
I am fairly sure that most, if not all, VPs with HDMI can take an analog input and output over HDMI.
oferlaor's Avatar oferlaor 07:26 AM 06-03-2006
javry,

I only commented about PQ, there are many things that make a processor successful. I think there's still some work to be done to get the DF to successfuly compete against feature rich processors like VP30, HDP Pro and C2.

c722,

I still like Lumagen's scaling over practically anything else out there (including HQV). The HQV scaling emphasizes edges too much for me (there are parameters to improve this).

Due to limitations of the DF I tested, I could not really judge the scaling quality of the DF vs. the other units so I can't really comment on it specifically. I could only use it through analog outputs, which is not something I like to do.

The DF is clearly a unit that is intended for transparent HT integration (i.e., not for feature driven users) and most for projector owners. Once these ship out, it would be interesting to hear how this unit works with 1080P Ruby class projectors.

Mark Peterson,

You'd think that, but the rate of customization and the lack of SO reference boards & the complexity of integration will likely cost you 5-10 times what a DF or Vantage HD would...
Mark Petersen's Avatar Mark Petersen 11:33 AM 06-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo
I am fairly sure that most, if not all, VPs with HDMI can take an analog input and output over HDMI.

To be clear, do you know if these VP's take the full range of common formats and also scale the analog inputs? The last time I checked a lot of the DVI based VP's like the Iscan HD+ (and I think also the Faroudja) would only transcode low resolution analog signals. High resolution (incl. high def) analog signals were bypassed to the analog output only.

The reason that I bring this up is it's a huge issue for those of us whose displays will only accept fixed digital inputs like 1080p on an HD2K for example. Not only is it a big issue, but these transcoding limitations are usually glossed over in the datasheets and manuals. Users often don't uncover this problem until after they have purchased the VP and are wondering why their XBOX in high def won't display on their system.
Mark Petersen's Avatar Mark Petersen 11:41 AM 06-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor
javry,

I only commented about PQ, there are many things that make a processor successful. I think there's still some work to be done to get the DF to successfuly compete against feature rich processors like VP30, HDP Pro and C2.
It could be that we're seeing the VP market in the process of splitting into two camps - those companies that spend most of their R&D money on features that create a feature rich anything to anything type of VP and others that spend most of their R&D money on maximizing PQ.

There is likely to be a convergence in the future though as companies like DVDO roll out their next gen deinterlacer and HQV based companies continue to add features. One thing is for sure, it won't be boring :)
javry's Avatar javry 05:54 PM 06-03-2006
yeah....I agree. this is a real exciting time for VPs. I'm headed in the direction of the DF....mainly because I already have the M and I'm gambling that the set will be hard to beat. I have to admit though, the CryII is looking awfully good about now. Also, I wonder what DVDO has around the corner.....perhaps a VP1000:>)
Javry
javry's Avatar javry 06:08 PM 06-03-2006
[quote=oferlaor]I see no technical reason why analog inputs cannot be redirected to the HDMI output, other than misinterpretation of the HDMI and HDCP directives.
QUOTE]

I agree.........however I have yet to find an HDMI without HDCP. But it seems to me that when I had the DVDO HD+, I ran component out of the player into the VP and then DVI from the VP to the projector. So I'm sure that can be done. But it sounds like you and Josh are suggesting that you can run a direct link from a component out to a DVI/HDMI input and that short of making up a cable and the HDCP issue for HDMI, there's really nothing stopping it from taking place. Do I have that right?
Javry
fatjulio's Avatar fatjulio 06:55 PM 06-04-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor

I still like Lumagen's scaling over practically anything else out there (including HQV). The HQV scaling emphasizes edges too much for me (there are parameters to improve this).
Does this include the CrystalioII?
oferlaor's Avatar oferlaor 10:24 AM 06-05-2006
javry,

There's no technical reason why an SD source would need to have HDCP on it. Regardless, I don't really care if they add that on to analog inputs as well (as long as they state this specifically, so people are not confused by this).

This would save the unit the need to resync HDCP when switching between analog and digital sources.

fatjulio,

I have not had the pleasure of testing that unit, I only saw it at CES, so I have no idea.
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