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post #91 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 05:26 AM
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Why use anything else then a 480i over HDMI (or SDI) DVD-player or 1080i sources with a high-end scaler like that?

I'm using a pre-production Gennum VXP scaler right now and all my 3 HDMI and 1 DVI sources are working perfectly. Audio is working like it should over HDMI. I don't even have a coax or optical cable in for the HDMI sources. Call me lucky, but the scaler is doing everything it should. Plug and play. I have some minor bugs for sure. It's not in production yet . But I'm enjoying every minute of it with my Sony Ruby.

And in the user manual, they clearly tell us to use HDMI over anything else to get the best PQ, and to use a 480i over HDMI player or 1080i sources to get the best results with the scaler. I'm using a Pioneer Elite 79AVi at 480i over HDMI with great results..

So I don't understand why Vantage are telling the opposite. Is it a problem with the Realta chipset?


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post #92 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

Where are you going to get an HD-DVD/blu-ray player or HD reciever that outputs HD-SDI? I would very seriously doubt anyone will be doing aftermarket SDI mods on any of these new boxes. I can't imagine that they would make the mistake of exposing the unencrypted signal anymore?

PixelMagic is planning to offer HD-SDI mod kits.
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post #93 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 10:10 AM
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Levesque,

I'm interested to hear your opinion of your Ruby's picture with and without the Gennum in the chain? Are all sources improved? SD and HD? What sources are you using?

I'm a Ruby owner as well and am stalling the purchase of a next gen processor waiting to see if the benefits justify the cost. The Ruby processing isn't bad. How much better is the Gennum?

thanks,

-kraig
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post #94 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 10:30 AM
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Ditto..............

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post #95 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 11:02 AM
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Quote:


PixelMagic is planning to offer HD-SDI mod kits.

Nice. Does anyone make a SDI switcher of any kind, aside from what would already be bundled with, or as an upgrade to, a VP?

My setup, still in progress:


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post #96 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 11:07 AM
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Any good quality 75 Ohm video switcher should work for SDI, like those from Extron, Gefen and maybe Key Digital.

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post #97 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 12:46 PM
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Thanks Dave. That is good to know.

Any word yet on how much, and how soon, those HD-SDI boxes will be, Tim?

Im still waiting to hear on my Vantage from my dealer, so I am assuming they have not yet gotten a tracking number from their distributor. :/

My setup, still in progress:


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post #98 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

Any good quality 75 Ohm video switcher should work for SDI, like those from Extron, Gefen and maybe Key Digital.

What about switching HD-SDI the only HD-SDI switcher I know of is the expensive Gefen model, are there other alternatives??

Lon
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post #99 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=LEVESQUE]I'm using a Pioneer Elite 79AVi at 480i over HDMI with great results..
QUOTE]

I may need to get me one of those. My DVHS deck is all fine via HDMI, sound included, thru the Vantage. The Denon's HDMI (3910) seems to be the issue, as I've also seen another report on this board of the same thing from another Denon over HDMI.

The only other HDMI problem I had was actually that the Samsung didn't like anything higher than 720p, other than 1080i.

Hopefully, another HDMI DVD player will be fine, but I'll have to ensure that it does 480/576i.

Ahh... F1 in full HD 3D with
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post #100 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

What about switching HD-SDI the only HD-SDI switcher I know of is the expensive Gefen model, are there other alternatives??

Lon

Lon,

I'm positive Extron has something that works and maybe something from Kramer or Key Digital.

Easiest thing to do is a search for "HD-SDI switch". There are probably a ton of broadcast quality solutions, but the ones I mentioned should be more affordable for the average consumer.

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post #101 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 02:28 PM
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Levesque,
Ditto, ditto on posts #93 and #94, above. We know you cannot be specific (ND agreement), but general impression of Ruby internal versus with the Gennum would be helpful.
Thanks!
Jim
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post #102 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 03:07 PM
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That aint no lie about that Gefen model being expensive. 8)

My setup, still in progress:


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post #103 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigk View Post

I'm interested to hear your opinion of your Ruby's picture with and without the Gennum in the chain? Are all sources improved? SD and HD?

The Gennum scaler is superior to the internal scaler of the Ruby. Sharper, cleaner, less noise. The difference is bigger with HD (1080i) then SD (480i), but both are improved with the Gennum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigk View Post

The Ruby processing isn't bad. How much better is the Gennum?

I also thaught that the Ruby was good before using the Gennum. Now I'm bypassing the Ruby scaler totally.


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post #104 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 03:15 PM
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I just don't see how anyone is going to do an aftermarket HD-SDI kit for any HD box. They will get sued immediately because this will by definition require stripping the HDCP off the signal and sending it in the clear, and with all the work that went into the DRM system in these new systems, anyone who does that will have a set of flesh eating lawyers on their doorstep immediately, as well anyone who tried to sell them. So this just doesn't make any sense to me. It will be both aginst the DMCA, which will get you into the criminal prosecution area, as well as getting sued by the content owners probably. You'd have to be completely out of your mind to try to do that in any sort of commercial way, IMHO. It would probably be your last product and the tiny amount of money that such a niche market could provide couldn't be worth the hassle.

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post #105 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 03:35 PM
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What can this product do for displays that only accept 1080i (SXRD) input for new HD formats?

The new players will output 1080i, is there processing that can be done to that signal and still output 1080i? I mean yeh these new processors are going to greatly improve current SD content, but what about native 1080i HD ?
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post #106 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 03:58 PM
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[quote=rdjam]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVESQUE View Post

I'm using a Pioneer Elite 79AVi at 480i over HDMI with great results..
QUOTE]

I may need to get me one of those.


Note Bob Sorel's earlier post on the upcoming Oppo 970. The price differential between it and the 79avi should make it worth a short wait.

Good way to support the troops.

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post #107 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

I just don't see how anyone is going to do an aftermarket HD-SDI kit for any HD box. They will get sued immediately because this will by definition require stripping the HDCP off the signal and sending it in the clear, and with all the work that went into the DRM system in these new systems, anyone who does that will have a set of flesh eating lawyers on their doorstep immediately, as well anyone who tried to sell them. So this just doesn't make any sense to me. It will be both aginst the DMCA, which will get you into the criminal prosecution area, as well as getting sued by the content owners probably. You'd have to be completely out of your mind to try to do that in any sort of commercial way, IMHO. It would probably be your last product and the tiny amount of money that such a niche market could provide couldn't be worth the hassle.

Not if you live in Denmark
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post #108 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 04:21 PM
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Thank God for Denmark (and commercial applications!)

My setup, still in progress:


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post #109 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 05:09 PM
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You can still get sued in Denmark. I just cannot see how the tiny amount of revenues it would bring in would begin to make it a commercially viable proposition given the legal heat it will inevitably invoke. And any of them that they try to ship here could be impounded, and of course the MPAA could make an example of anyone here who bought one if they chose to do so.

I think it's counter-productive personally. It won't do anything to make more HD content available to use sooner, it'll do just the opposite.

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post #110 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 05:35 PM
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I havent read the code, in general, and how it pertains to SDI devices specifically, but from what I know (which isnt much I believe what is illegal is the unauthorized copying (not what is considered fair use) and unauthorized distribution of the content .. not the owning of SDI devices.

Would the image via HDMI be the same as the image via SDI? What differences would there be, if any?

My setup, still in progress:


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post #111 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 05:48 PM
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Hi Rdjam,

Any update on picture quality with the Vantage?

God bless...

Mark
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post #112 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post


Would the image via HDMI be the same as the image via SDI? What differences would there be, if any?

Depends on how much signal processing is going on after it leaves the decoder and is sent to the HDMI output. The idea behind SDI is to get the pure decoder output before every Tom, Dick and Harry applies their version of scaling/de-interlacing/signal processing of the the post-decoded signal.
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post #113 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 06:06 PM
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Hi Rdjam,

Is it to early to ask if you tried the 2 HDMI inputs for the auto switch between the two? Or the other video inputs. Thanks

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post #114 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 06:14 PM
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Well, after all I've read here and the mysterious 4 month delay, I decided to cancel my Vantage-HD order. HDMI is critical for all the connections I want to feed in. Additionally with Gennum systems coming out, the long lead time that the Vantage presented last October is GONE!

I'm going to wait for the professional reviews of the Realta vs. Gennum. The excitement I felt for Calibre is gone as well.
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post #115 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I may need to get me one of those.
Hopefully, another HDMI DVD player will be fine, but I'll have to ensure that it does 480/576i.

Yes please try. I'm very keen to see your findings. Thanks!

Really, there are only 3 (common) dvd players that output 480i/576i: pio59/79(969/989), sony 975. In fact I believe the sony 975 is a US only model. So in UK there is only the pio 969/989 pair. And dun tell me they have tested all those dvd players except these 2 ?! To me this is the only player to test 480i HDMI input if they are ever serious abt the SD HDMI connectivity. For that matter there is no need to even test all other dvdps since , as Tim aptly put, they dun output the "i" and completely miss the whole purpose of an external VP. I would be really really SHOCKED if it cannot work with the pio at 480i. Even the old lumagen/dvdo units managed to get it work on DVI input!
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post #116 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 08:46 PM
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Keenan. That is not the point of SDI. When many of us first modified or had our DVD players modified to output SDI, it was to avoid a digital to analogue (D to A) conversion. It has absolutely nothing to do with avoiding deinterlacing or scaling. NADA. We took 480i digital out instead of 480i analogue out. Then we inputted 480i digital to our video processors where there then was deinterlacing and scaling. If we instead had inputted analogue 480i to our processors, the processor would have used an A to D conversion so that it could process the signal. The sole advantage of SDI was or is to avoid a D to A conversion and then an A to D conversion. That's it. That's all. Whether one likes it or not, an A to D conversion and a D to A conversion degrade the signal a little. With a good processor and a high quality display avoiding these two conversions results in a small impovement in PQ.

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post #117 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 09:41 PM
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mark---you are of course, correct as far as the original purpose of SDI goes...

However, what keenan seems to be referring to is the advantage of using SDI instead of HDMI, not instead of analogue. And in that context, what he said was correct too. It seems that some players with HDMI out are still inserting some processing between the raw 480i bitstream and the HDMI output. Bad doggie!

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post #118 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 09:45 PM
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Thanks for the explanation, I completely overlooked that aspect of it, I stand corrected.
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post #119 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Grant View Post

It seems that some players with HDMI out are still inserting some processing between the raw 480i bitstream and the HDMI output. Bad doggie!

Yes, they are, and as you say, it can result in some bad doogie doo..
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post #120 of 1635 Old 02-28-2006, 11:11 PM
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about HD-SDI, I think it stems from Calibre's roots in the broadcasting market, where they most certainly do need HD-SDI.

About consumer use of HD-SDI, we'll have to take a wait & see approach. I would not discount it right away, where there is a will there is a way...

HD-SDI does not constitute, in any way, a replacement of HDMI. Howe,ver when it comes to switching it, passing it through a house, or distributing it, it is far more comfortable and reliable than HDMI will ever be.

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr

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