Review of ABT102 Precision Deinterlacing Card for DVDO iScan VP30 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

Gary and Ofer (and other Beta Testers) - What you have is the final version of the ABT102. If you would like to make comments, then go right ahead.

Following is a repost from AVforums.com (the British equivalent of this AVSforums.com) where I posted my structured comments about the final version of ABT102.

I've received a number of requests to repost it over here, so here is it.

I've taken this opportunity to make it less PAL/50Hz specific; and not overuse the phase simply awesome too.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Introduction

This is a review of Anchor Bay Technology's Precision Deinterlacing Card for iScan VP30, i.e. the ABT102. This new daughterboard adds high quality SD deinterlacing to VP30, using part of Dale Adams' new DL algorithms.

My daughterboard is beta 5, but Josh Allen says that's final version. The firmware is the same current 1.07 (28-Apr) beta that is available for download from DVDO.com.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Installation

The retail version of ABT102 will come with five items: Precision Deinterlacing Card, Stand-offs (2), Software CD-ROM, ABT Reference DVD, manual (which may be printout or PDF on CD-ROM).

After unpacking the ABT102 the next step is to simply remove the top from VP30, which is achieved by removing nine screws, and then locate the Expansion Module Connector socket for the ABT102. Next to the socket are two holes which fit the stand-offs, these are simply pushed in; they are very similar to SDI module ones. Once stand-offs are in place the ABT102 card can be mounted, it fits into socket and both stand-offs go through the two holes in the card. One has to assure a tight fit, but not pressing so hard as to break anything. Once the top cover is reinstalled, the firmware must be updated (from CD-ROM) for ABT102 to operate; update involves the usual RS232 malarkey.

All in all, a pretty easy upgrade that even the most technologically challenged should be able to perform with no problems.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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New Features

Once ABT102 and new software are installed the info screen is now headed VP30 - ABT102 and under the Input Adjust menu the Film Mode menu is replaced with a new one entitled Deinterlacing. This new menu is where the ABT102 is controlled. There are three main areas (my categories, not DVDOs) that are: Auto' and Film Bias Mode' and Video Mode' that are for general use; 2:2 Even' and 2:2 Odd' which are specific to PAL film content; Game Mode 1' and Game Mode 2' which are for game consoles.

From DVDO.com website:

New modes available under Input Adjust >Deinterlacing' are:
  • Auto - This mode is the default.
    Auto' represents the best balance between automatic detection of film and video sources, bad edit detection, and identification of mixed-mode sources. This mode should be used when the content may be a mix of film and video content or you are not sure.
  • Film Bias Mode - This mode is intended for use on content that is known to be film-based.
  • Video Mode - This mode is intended for use on content that is known to be video-based.
  • 2:2 Even - This mode should be used when the user knows that the source is high-quality 2:2 pulldown (i.e. film-based content played back in a country with a 50Hz video standard) and wants to avoid any loss of cadence lock while watching that source. This mode weaves two adjacent fields together starting with an even field and combining it with the following odd field. This will provide a higher quality overall signal than the Auto' or Film Mode' settings, providing that the source really is 2:2 pulldown and does not have bad edits. Only one of the 2:2' Deinterlacing settings is correct for any given source and the correct mode can be chosen by simply trying both of them and selecting the one which does not result in combing artifacts.
  • 2:2 Odd - This mode is very similar to 2:2 Even' except that that this weaves two adjacent fields together starting with an odd field and combining it with the following even field.
  • Game Mode 1 - This mode is intended for use with game consoles (like those from Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo).This mode gives you minimal latency with edge-adaptive processing. The total amount of delay with source-locked output mode set on the VP30 is about half a frame of delay. Unlocked frame rates will increase this delay.
  • Game Mode 2 - This mode is intended for use with game consoles (like those from Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo). This mode gives you minimal latency with both motion and edge-adaptive processing. The total amount of delay with source-locked output mode set on the VP30 is about one and a half frames of delay. Unlocked frame rates will increase this delay.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Deinterlacing film content

The new arbitrary cadence detection for 3:2 pulldown and 2:2 pulldown is truly excellent and very rarely misses. In Auto' it is extremely hard to find anything (even with very difficult PAL 2:2 pulldown) that does not lock.

However, if you do have a PAL film source that doesn't lock, you can simply use either 2:2 Even' or 2:2 Odd' to ensure solid lock throughout a movie.

Take difficult content such as Star Trek: Insurrection (beginning of movie), or PAL Bridget Jones: Edge of Reason (Coca-Cola sign saying GO BRIDGET GO), or PAL Day After Tomorrow (opening), or any of the dozens of movies R1 and R2 that I've run through and not a bad lock or moiré in sight in Auto' mode.

Yep, that good.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Deinterlacing video content

Improving the video deinterlacing is the raison d'être of ABT102, and to say that it's in a different league to SiI504 is understatement of the year. To put it simply, video deinterlacing is astonishing -- ABT102 makes broadcast SD 576i video content look like 720p, and 480i video content looks just as good (caveat: although I've only seen DVD based 480i video and not broadcast).

ABT102 deinterlaced video has the picture quality of film, but with the smooth motion of video.

With broadcast SD digital television high bit-rate channels look stunning (as do DVDs), but amazingly even low bit-rate channels look superb; I've gone and looked at some really terrible PQ channels, but they are still pleasingly rendered. Broadcast SD television has never looked so good on a progressive display; I seek out video material just to see how great it looks: music videos, even commercials, are so much better than before.

To test ABT102 fully I even viewed sport! Soccer looked fantastic, great detail (crowds and nets), no jaggies on diagonal lines on pitch, no combing, very good PQ.

Cartoons are particularly splendid, The Simpsons' has never looked as good nor Southpark' or any other animated material I've tried. The Edge Adaptive Processing seems to work especially well with the solid colours and black lines of animation.

The Edge Adaptive Processing (gets rid of jaggies by smoothing edges) does equally well with non-animated video. ABT102 blows Faroudja DCDi out of the water - and I have yet to see Gennum VXP and Realta HQV but I don't think they're going to be significantly different to ABT102 on SD material.

As to cadence locks, combing is extremely rare with ABT102's arbitrary cadence detection; especially as it can deinterlace different parts of the screen as film/video. This means that difficult challenges such as video-titles-over-film are not even an issue. Get used to credits and titles being super-smooth with no combing; vertically or horizontally scrolling text looks smooth and sharp and completely judder free, no matter if on solid color background or over film/video.

Most of the time it looks like video content just got a free upgrade to 720p.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Deinterlacing video game content

I haven't has as much chance to test this with my GameCube as I would like, however, it all works as expected and has no noticeable delay. Period.

If you are a game player and need a video processor, this is the one for you.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Tests

Specific tests that I haven't already discussed above

HQV Benchmark DVD
HQV disc is completely and utterly beaten by ABT102.
Color Bar : perfect pass
Jaggies Pattern 1 : excellent, no jaggies even at low angles
Jaggies Pattern 2 : excellent, laughs in the face of this test
Flag : excellent
Detail : excellent, no detail lost at all
Film Detail : excellent, no moiré
Assorted Cadences : excellent, didn't miss one
Mixed 3:2 with titles : excellent, smooth video text over film The ABT102 doesn't have noise reduction built in so:
Noise Reduction : fail
Motion Adaptative Noise Reduction : fail However, both NR tests look great ... but I do not believe that cleaning up analogue broadcast artifacts and mosquito noise are appropriate test for deinterlacing.

Digital Video Essentials
Test pattern that contains video mixed with film. ABT102 laughs at it.

Difficult DVDs
I've tried all the ones that people suggested to me on AVforums.com and I can get my hand on, and the ones I've played through ABT102 haven't had any problems.

Summary
ABT102 could not have passed the tests with more flying colors, it really is superb.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Conclusion

I have yet to see Gennum VXP and Realta HQV but I am willing to bet that ABT102 gives them a run for money, at fraction of price.

This upgrade is simply outstanding:
  • Film content is improved because of awesome cadence detection.
  • Video content is in different league because of cadence detection and diagonal edge anti-aliasing.
  • Game content is supported like never before with two modes.
The ABT102 transforms the iScan VP30 into the best-in-class SD deinterlacer, for very little money. You're going to have to spend thousands of dollars more to see comparable results from other manufacturers. Could not be more highly recommended.



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Old 05-09-2006, 09:11 AM
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I want!

Great review, Stoo. Much appreciated.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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Old 05-09-2006, 01:25 PM
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Wow....I am impressed. Thank you for posting this. The Sil504 was the only reason I hadn't been looking at the VP30 for my future scaler needs. This definately changes things.

- Jon
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Old 05-09-2006, 04:22 PM
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Wow twice!!

Thanx StooMonster for a great review.

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Old 05-09-2006, 05:52 PM
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So let me see if I understand the implications of this new board:

The only weakness of the VP30 was in its video deinterlacing, right?
And with this new board the video deinterlacing is at least up HQV or Gennum quality, right?
So a VP30 equipped with this board would all around be equal or better than any of the current HQV or Gennum units, but at a much lower price point, right?

What is the MSRP of an ABT102 equipped VP30?
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Old 05-09-2006, 06:12 PM
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Bob,

As a fellow Ruby owner and a VP30 owner the VP30 w/ ABT102 should really help SD video and film big time since the internal deinterlacer/scaler for SD in the Ruby is fairly weak. The MSRP is $1999 for the VP30 and currently $199 for the ABT102 (until May 15th then $499).

Now the only weakness for the Vp30 is the HD deinterlacing. Can't wait for ABT's HD offerings.
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Old 05-09-2006, 06:19 PM
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Thanks, Andy!

Currently I own a Vantage-HD, but I still have HDMI/HDCP -> DVI connectivity issues, so I am beginning to look for alternatives. This new addition to the VP30 has naturally caught my attention.
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Old 05-09-2006, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Thanks, Andy!

Currently I own a Vantage-HD, but I still have HDMI/HDCP -> DVI connectivity issues, so I am beginning to look for alternatives. This new addition to the VP30 has naturally caught my attention.

remember this only works on SD inputs, the next dvdo scaler will also do it for HD. The vantage also does it for HD. How much you will miss the new deinterlacer for HD is personal.

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Old 05-09-2006, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Thanks, Andy!

Currently I own a Vantage-HD, but I still have HDMI/HDCP -> DVI connectivity issues, so I am beginning to look for alternatives. This new addition to the VP30 has naturally caught my attention.

As much as I love my VP30 if your problems are HDMI/HDCP, you should know that others have reported HDMI audio issues. I have not heard much re: HDMI video issues though. Just thought you should know. Great thing about DVDO is you could get a 30 day trial.
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Old 05-09-2006, 07:10 PM
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On video mode material, is there a sense that the image is bobbing up and down, or is it rock solid and stable. This is one of the great failings of DCDi, so hopefully Dale has been able to correct for it.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

The only weakness of the VP30 was in its video deinterlacing, right?

I'd also add that its user interface is a bit clunky, compared to a Lumagen or your Lexicon MC-12. If you order the ABT102 before May 15, you can get it for $199, otherwise it's $499.

--Andre
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Old 05-09-2006, 09:15 PM
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The SiI504 also has problems with getting false positives with 2:2 material, so the advantages aren't limited to video.
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:42 AM
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How does the VP30 handle 1080i? If I wanted to deinterlace and scale 1080i to 720p, does the ABT102 help at all?

- Jon
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Old 05-10-2006, 10:17 AM
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ABT102 is only for SD. The next major DVDO release is slated to be HD-oriented (i.e., beyond bob/weave).
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Old 05-10-2006, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyozero3 View Post

How does the VP30 handle 1080i? If I wanted to deinterlace and scale 1080i to 720p, does the ABT102 help at all?


As I understand it, the VP30 will scale 1080i to 720p.
However, the ABT102 will de-interlace SD only (not 1080i).
But I could be wrong.

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Old 05-10-2006, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

As I understand it, the VP30 will scale 1080i to 720p.
However, the ABT102 will de-interlace SD only (not 1080i).
But I could be wrong.

The vp30 does work for HD signals but the way it does it is far from perfect. The end result will be pleasing for many but there are other products that will do it alot better. The 102 card brings the important area of SD signals into a new realm and leaves the HD area as it was before good but not perfect. Perfect deinterlacing and scaling on HD comes at a price that is higher than the vp30 is today. In the near future dvdo will release a new scaler based on the same concepts it now uses for SD but extended to HD how much extra that will cost is unsure but these new inovations will be used.

The DL102 can be seen as a showcase for what they can do but its limited in its deinterlacing to SD only because of the design of the vp30.

As a user of several of their products i also would liked to see the dl102 card do HD but i am happy for the upgrade they do to current users and when the HD version is released we can expect a good upgrade path from dvdo if history is any guide.

The parent company of dvdo is http://www.anchorbaytech.com/ it also has alot of information on the things they design (and then showcase in their dvdo products) and that others can license.


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Old 05-10-2006, 11:22 AM
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^^ Probably been asked a billion times now, but what is the really ballpark timeframe estimate on this "next DVDO product?"

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ View Post

^^ Probably been asked a billion times now, but what is the really ballpark timeframe estimate on this "next DVDO product?"

doubt anyone who really knows will tell you , we do know that they have shown working boards for HD for all and more of the things found on the dl102 at tradeshows.

My guess is we will see products announcements near or at the bigger shows in september but remember they have a great upgrade path with a proven track record so investing in a vp30+dl and then a trade in might be closer to the price of this new model
than you think. Ask dvdo if you want if they will do a nice upgrade path again unlike timeframe and specs they might respond to that one ....

Daniel.

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Old 05-10-2006, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ View Post

^^ Probably been asked a billion times now, but what is the really ballpark timeframe estimate on this "next DVDO product?"

Rumours say announcement at Cedia 2006 (mid September) with shipping to follow right afterwards.
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:34 AM
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Danielo and madshi: That's fine by me. Certainly no one wants them to rush something like this, but I, too, have heard "Keep an eye out on CEDIA 2006" more than once.

I do know that DVDO/ABT has an EXCELLENT upgrade path and all that.

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Old 05-10-2006, 04:32 PM
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Why are we guessing September? BECAUSE that is when the BIG show (CEDIA) is. Exhibiting at a show is a hugh expense. A company does get to present new products to its dealers and gets a lot of free press. Soos you want to maximize things by announcing at the show etc etc. Not 30 days later. Delivery later is OK Soos we are guessing product sometime thereafter. Could it be months later? Sure could. But the dynamics dictate showing at least a prototype and saying it will be on the shelves soon.

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Old 05-10-2006, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

The parent company of dvdo is http://www.anchorbaytech.com/ it also has alot of information on the things they design (and then showcase in their dvdo products) and that others can license.

So "VRS" will be their competetor against "HQV" and "VXP". Hurray for three letter abbreviations.
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