Algolith Dragonfly owners thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 247 Old 07-09-2006, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
Component input is incredibly sharp. It puts the JVC/Faroudja scaler to shame. I guess it is a combination of true per pixel processing, true 1080i deinterlacing, and HVQ but the detail is amazing. Before there was a noticeable difference between HDMI and component now they both look equally sharp to me.
One other note, Kris Deering of the Secrets website (I think it was Kris) did some testing on the HD-A1 and found that the component outputs do limit the high frequencies, not much but it is there. HDMI output on the otherhand went to the Nyquist limit. You may want to give HDMI a try again. With the latest HD-A1 firmware HDMI is working pretty well for me although there are still some quirks that can be easily worked around. The BD-P100 is another story. I know Algolith is going to test it this week and figure out what the 1080i sync over HDMI problem is.

EDIT: Actually it was Stacey Spears discussing the Samsung BD. Sorry for any potential confusion.
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post #92 of 247 Old 07-09-2006, 09:00 PM
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FYI, on the TheaterSync Sharpness=50 and Detail Enhancement=0 are the "pass-thru" setting. The default DE setting of 50 means there's processing going on most likely.

--wilson
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post #93 of 247 Old 07-09-2006, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan
FYI, on the TheaterSync Sharpness=50 and Detail Enhancement=0 are the "pass-thru" setting. The default DE setting of 50 means there's processing going on most likely.

--wilson
Good to know. I had wondered about that.
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post #94 of 247 Old 07-09-2006, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kromkamp
The main issue with cooling Realta isnt the size of the heatsink but the volume of air in the enclosure. The enclosure needs to be larger than 1RU sized to allow for significant volume of air above the heatsink for proper convection to occur.

If you ever get a chance to pop open a Denon 5910 :) you will find a quite reasonably sized heat sink in there.

BTW Realta consumes about 10 Watts max - much less than the 90+ Watts of a Prescott processor!
Thanks for this information.

It makes me wonder a bit. I believe most Notebook CPUs consume more than 10 Watts. But still there are Notebooks which even under full load get along without a fan. And Notebooks have a much smaller case than 1RU. Why then does the Realta need a larger enclosure to get along without a fan?
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post #95 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
Thanks for this information.

It makes me wonder a bit. I believe most Notebook CPUs consume more than 10 Watts. But still there are Notebooks which even under full load get along without a fan. And Notebooks have a much smaller case than 1RU. Why then does the Realta need a larger enclosure to get along without a fan?
It all depends on how much electrical energy gets turned into heat.
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post #96 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
It all depends on how much electrical energy gets turned into heat.
Ah, that makes sense, thanks.
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post #97 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 07:02 AM
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I will give HDMI another try. The one annoying thing about HDMI is that you get no display while HDMI is doing its many handshakes. I kind of like the fact that you can see that the unit is indeed working when you use the component output. The blank screen of HDMI does not inspire confidence.

I have been flipping back and forth between using 0 IRE and lowering the brightness or 7.5 and upping the brightness. I can't decide which is better. That is why is would like more control. I think for my component sources 7.5 IRE is more correct. I will revisit HDMI tonight.
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post #98 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 02:42 PM
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okay guys. I'm in trouble. I accidentally hit the wrong option in the resolution menu and I'm now coming up with the "blank screen" mentioned in the manual. I called Robert at Algolith but it appears he's the only one in the office today. Everyone is off....and grieving the loss of Christian Tremblay. BTW, I gave Robert condolences from us all.

Anyway, could someone post a remote map to the OSD reset option? Without the OSD display, I can't tell where I'm going.
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post #99 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Javry, what resolution do you need? If you have v1.08 you can directly select the following resolutions via the format button:

Format shortcut on remote control offers 720p50/60 1080p50/60 A&B in
addition to 480p60 and 576p50.
format + 1 = 480p60
format + 3 = 720p60
format + 5 = 1080p60 A (this is huge for us HD2K users. Thanks Algolith!)
format + 6 = 1080p60 B
format + 7 = 1080p24
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post #100 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 02:53 PM
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Mark,
Thanks. I just started toggling between the format options you mentioned and after a while, I hit a good one. Now there's a big blue square on the sreen....which is okay because I can at least see the menu. BTW, when I had the unit connected, I noticed a bunch of combing at the top of the screen. Is there a work-around? Thanks again.
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post #101 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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If the combing that you saw was on a 480i source go into the field control menu and change the odd/even field. The 1080i combing probblem is fixed.
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post #102 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 07:11 PM
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I have some noise at the top of my screen. I shifted the picture up with the position control to get rid of it.
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post #103 of 247 Old 07-10-2006, 09:09 PM
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Hello all, this is my first foray into the owner's thread but I have been following things. First, my setup: I have the Mosquito HDMI (with the latest firmware) and the Dragonfly, also with the latest firmware, although, like someone else who posted here, I had to take it out of the rack and do the update with my desktop pc as the laptop just wouldn't work. I am not currently runing any HDMI sources because my display is not HDCP compliant (Digital Projection Highlite Gold 3 Chip). Sources are an Escient DVDM-100 (with 3 Sony changers), Directv HD Tivo, D-Theater and HD-A1. Everything goes component into the Mosquito, component out of the Mosquito into the DF and I have HDMI to DVI adaptor cable going into my projector. My display is 1280 X 720 and the Dragonfly is doing a good job with 1080i in and 720p out. To be honest, I haven't even checked things since I updated the firmware because I shut everything down and just don't feel like messing with it anymore tonight. I have high hopes for this setup but haven't been blown away just yet. I am coming from a Faroudja NRS which did a great job with DVD. I think once all the bugs get worked out this will be everything it should be. My initial impressions of the Mosquito are not that great. I can't seem to do any processing of any kind without adding what appears to be posterization. I can fudge with the numbers and can definitely see improvement in detail on some DVDs but the added artifacts are bothering me. For you Mosquito owners out there, what are your settings and what are your impressions? I am looking forward to testing further tomorrow. One major improvement I am hoping for is discrete IR for everything for both units, especially aspect ratios, preferences, inputs, ect. As it stands right now it is not as integration friendly as it needs to be. Any thoughts? :)
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post #104 of 247 Old 07-11-2006, 02:22 AM
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Just sent this to Robert at Algolith......

Quote:
Hi Robert
Okay....I think the unit is dead. I tried toggling through the resolution options on the remote and finally got one to work. When the OSD came back on though, there was this great big blue square on the screen. The menu would come up but nothing would engage. I then tried to re-do the version 1.08 update and things then really went haywire.

Now, the unit won't come on at all. The blue light comes on when I disconnect and reconnect power but it doesn't blink. The fan doesn't come on except in small spurts. Then it goes back off. The unit does not recognize the remote anymore and the computer doesn't recognize the DF as new hardware when connected by USB. There is no picture...not even the big blue square. I left it off overnight to see if it just needed to cool down [it was operating at 59 degrees C] but this morning I got the same results.
Any thoughts?
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post #105 of 247 Old 07-11-2006, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry
Just sent this to Robert at Algolith......



Any thoughts?
The big blue square with a working menu sounds like the unit simply did not sync to a source.

The problem after the attempt to rollback the firmware sounds like a bad firmware update which basically means the unit has to go back to be reflashed at the factory. The DF probably has a JTAG or similar interface which would allow them to reflash it at the factory, otherwise the board will become a boat anchor :)
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post #106 of 247 Old 07-11-2006, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSHA222
For you Mosquito owners out there, what are your settings and what are your impressions? I am looking forward to testing further tomorrow. One major improvement I am hoping for is discrete IR for everything for both units, especially aspect ratios, preferences, inputs, ect. As it stands right now it is not as integration friendly as it needs to be. Any thoughts? :)
Hi Chris welcome to the board. There has been a few threads about the Mosquito, but what we really need is an owners thread to discuss settings and such. Perhaps you would like to start one? Fwiw, my Mosquito really shines when watching cable SD material. For more pristine sources like good quality DVDs noise reduction is less important to me but the detail enhance feature of the Mosquito is really nice. It sharpens without hardly any ringing. HD is similar (little to no noise reduction and a little DE) but cable HD suffers from macro blocking galore and I wish the BAR algorithm on the Mosquito was a bit better. Last I heard Algolith was looking into improving BAR, but I assume most of their efforts are consumed by the DF now.
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post #107 of 247 Old 07-11-2006, 11:28 AM
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Thanks for the response Mark. I'll keep fitzing with it. You are probably right about Algolith being consumed with DF. It should be excellent once all the bugginess is worked out.
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post #108 of 247 Old 07-11-2006, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen
The big blue square with a working menu sounds like the unit simply did not sync to a source.

The problem after the attempt to rollback the firmware sounds like a bad firmware update which basically means the unit has to go back to be reflashed at the factory. The DF probably has a JTAG or similar interface which would allow them to reflash it at the factory, otherwise the board will become a boat anchor :)
Mark,
Thanks for all the great advise. I've been in several discussions with the Jacques and Robert at Algolith today and it looks like the unit will have to go back as you say. They were all very helpful in diagnosing the issue and it appears that there was a glitch of some kind in the upgrade process. It could've been user error [me] but the current thinking is that something in the software didn't do what it was supposed to do. No probs. I'm waiting on a RMA from them now.

While I'm at it, I'll probably send the M back for the digi upgrade as well. Just waiting on the go-ahead from Jason.

All in all, I have to say that I'm very impressed with their customer service.
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post #109 of 247 Old 07-11-2006, 11:55 AM
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There is one thing Jacques did mention in my last conversation with him. He said that it's best to disconnect all the inputs and outputs to the unit before performing a version upgrade.
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post #110 of 247 Old 07-12-2006, 02:11 AM
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javry,

The same thing happened to me when performing the 1.08 update. However, despite the unit appearing unresponsive (no video output, solid blue light, fan not spinning, etc), after power cycling I reconnected the USB cable and my computer still recognized the Dragonfly. I ran the Update program and it successfully found the Dragonfly and completed the update. After another power recycle everything returned to normal and all is well with normal operation.
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post #111 of 247 Old 07-12-2006, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kondilis
javry,

The same thing happened to me when performing the 1.08 update. However, despite the unit appearing unresponsive (no video output, solid blue light, fan not spinning, etc), after power cycling I reconnected the USB cable and my computer still recognized the Dragonfly. I ran the Update program and it successfully found the Dragonfly and completed the update. After another power recycle everything returned to normal and all is well with normal operation.
Hi Frank,
Thanks for that. If I could get the computer to recognize the unit, I believe all would be solved. I'm trying it right now but it's not looking good. I'll keep trying though while waiting for an RMA from Algolith. Maybe something will happen.

To all: I should also mention that for the brief moment I had the unit working, I was very impressed. I had the preview to Cars from the Incredibles DVD going....and it was very very nice. In spite of all the hassle, me thinks this ones a keeper.
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post #112 of 247 Old 07-13-2006, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry
Hi Frank,
Thanks for that. If I could get the computer to recognize the unit, I believe all would be solved. I'm trying it right now but it's not looking good. I'll keep trying though while waiting for an RMA from Algolith. Maybe something will happen.

To all: I should also mention that for the brief moment I had the unit working, I was very impressed. I had the preview to Cars from the Incredibles DVD going....and it was very very nice. In spite of all the hassle, me thinks this ones a keeper.
Sorry to hear about the update problems. When it works the Dragonfly has amazing picture quality. Hopefully Algolith can get all of the bugs worked out soon.
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post #113 of 247 Old 07-13-2006, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen
Sorry to hear about the update problems. When it works the Dragonfly has amazing picture quality. Hopefully Algolith can get all of the bugs worked out soon.
In talking with Jacques, he felt that the unit was hung up between operating versions....but nothing serious beyond that. BTW, I have now gotten the RMA from them. Here's a copy of the email....for anyone who may go through this in the future.

Quote:
Hi Javry,
Here's your RMA # for returning your Dragonfly. Please make sure you write this number on the top of the box.

RMA # XX XXX XXX
Reason: UNIT BUILD IN CANADA RETURNING TO CANADA FOR REPAIR UNDER WARRANTY.

Shipping Information:

Ship To:
Algolith Inc.
400 Isabey
St-Laurent, QC Canada H4T 1V3
Phone: (514) 335-9867 / Fax: (514) 333-9873

Attention : Hanna van Beekum
All return shipping costs must be pre-paid by the customer and are non-refundable. We strongly recommend that when returning a product, you select a carrier with a tracking service and that you have the package adequately insured. Any product returned must be shipped preferably in it's original packaging, accompanied with all manuals, remote control, power suppy, USB cables, rack brackets and a valid Return Merchandise Authorization Number ("RMA #") marked outside the box.

The attached Commercial Invoice should be printed in 3 copies and inserted in the plastic envelope outside the box with the shipping papers.
These papers are required for by Customs

Thank you.
Hanna van Beekum
My son will help me box the unit up and I'll send it back tomorrow via Fed Ex. Turn around time is probably a week ....maybe a little more. Also, they want me to send the M back to Jason for the digi-upgrade rather than send it with the DF. So I'll have to wait to hear from him. Hey Jason....you out there?
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post #114 of 247 Old 07-13-2006, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
I will give HDMI another try. The one annoying thing about HDMI is that you get no display while HDMI is doing its many handshakes. I kind of like the fact that you can see that the unit is indeed working when you use the component output. The blank screen of HDMI does not inspire confidence.

I have been flipping back and forth between using 0 IRE and lowering the brightness or 7.5 and upping the brightness. I can't decide which is better. That is why is would like more control. I think for my component sources 7.5 IRE is more correct. I will revisit HDMI tonight.
This sounds like a good explanation on why my blacks are so dark on the HD-A! and why the PC level setting on the DF seems to be the best with this player (via HDMI and using the latest Toshiba v1.4 firmware):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=694226

In a nutshell the latest v1.4 firmware from Toshiba can cause the player to use PC levels if DVI is used in the chain (and in some cases even when pure HDMI is used).

This is what I think is happening:
(HDMI->DVI handhsake causes the HD-A1 to output PC levels)
Level 16 is expanded down to level 0
Level 235 is expanded up to 255
(This expansion causes two problems one is that above blacks and below whites are clipped if displayed using 7.5IRE video levels and there are now steps between levels that can cause contouring).

If displayed using the PC video levels setting on the DF, I assume that the DF is compressing the PC levels back to 7.5IRE so that:
Level 0 (originally level 16 in the source) is compressed back to level 16.
Level 255 (originally level 235 in the source) is compressed back to 235

the expansion and compression in itself can't be a good thing, but at least the original values are somwhat preserved and severe clipping is avoided.

Fwiw, if I keep the DF set to 7.5IRE with the HD-A1 (as I do my normal sources) I have to set the black level/Brightness setting about 10 notches higher than normal and shadow detail is still lost. The Contrast setting must come way down too. These settings jive with the thread above.
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post #115 of 247 Old 07-14-2006, 09:17 AM
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After much testing I went the other direction. I set my DF to 0 IRE and lower the brightness 5 or 6 notches. I don't have to touch the contrast. I think I get better shadow detail this way. I still find HDMI washed out (elevated background) with either IRE so I am sticking with component for now. I find it really hard to see the detail difference on actually movies so I don't mind much. My brain however tells I should be using HDMI.
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post #116 of 247 Old 07-14-2006, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
After much testing I went the other direction. I set my DF to 0 IRE and lower the brightness 5 or 6 notches. I don't have to touch the contrast. I think I get better shadow detail this way. I still find HDMI washed out (elevated background) with either IRE so I am sticking with component for now. I find it really hard to see the detail difference on actually movies so I don't mind much. My brain however tells I should be using HDMI.
Your settings are with component right? If so, the DVI PC level issue mentioned above won't affect you.

It's been known for quite awhile that the HD-A1/X-A1 clips BTB and WTW via HDMI. Basically anything below 16 becomes 16 and anything above 235 becomes 235. So this is probably why HDMI seems washed out compared to component.

I assume that when you use component you're getting the full 0-255 but also at PC levels which is why compressing the input via the PC black level setting gets it back looking close to what it should.

I've been hoping that Toshiba will offer a SW update that fixes the BTB HDMI problem, if this doesn't happen soon I may join you in using component on the HD-A! (in addition to already using component on the BDP-1000).
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post #117 of 247 Old 07-14-2006, 12:57 PM
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Mark, have you tried connecting the HD-A1 to the Mosquito HDMI first and then the DF? There's a small chance that their HDMI implementations are different.
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post #118 of 247 Old 07-14-2006, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan
Mark, have you tried connecting the HD-A1 to the Mosquito HDMI first and then the DF? There's a small chance that their HDMI implementations are different.
I have all of my HDMI sources going through the Mosquito and then into the DF. I have noticed that the additional repeater (the Mosquito) raises the likelihood of HDMI/HDCP errors. I think that the order of powerup is important. I turn the projector on first, then the DF, then the Mosquito and finally the source and it seems to work although sometimes I have to power the source on/off a few times. This is also true of the HDCP in the SA8300HD, it's somewhat tricky to get it enabled.
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post #119 of 247 Old 07-15-2006, 09:43 AM
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Hi,
Iam new on the board. I have a DF for 1 week and at the moment not satisfyd at all, first of all the HDMI - HDMi connection between my DVD Player doesnt work, my Ruby remains blank. Ok coudl be that this is not the problem of the DF but my DVD Player (Pionne 868Avi). No Im going in with Component and out with HDMI.
As the DF manual doesnt explain what the different Enhancements means I would like to ask you guys what's yout setting for SD-DVD. And waht the hack is the difference between 1080p60 A and 1080P60 B.
Last info my projector is the Sony Ruby.
Very kind regards to all of you from Italy
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post #120 of 247 Old 07-15-2006, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen
I have all of my HDMI sources going through the Mosquito and then into the DF..................
Mark,
Is this standard practice? IOW, is there anything from Algolith that talks about benefits and burdens of doing a M>DF hookup vs a DF>M hookup. The later tends to make more sense to me.
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