FleaHDMI - Time to iron out the facts? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 272 Old 10-22-2006, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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For quite a while now, I had been searching for a VP solution for the HT I'm helping to build for my parents. I've since had to conclude that there are just too many issues with all current VPs to justify the expense of any of them.

The FleaHDMI and the MosquitoHDMI seem to be exceptions, more or less. A fair bit of useful information is known about the Mosquito. For example, it generates a great deal of heat; its image processing takes only a fraction of a single frame to complete; it exhibits much of the flakiness shared by all VPs (such as being unable to handshake with TivoHD). By comparison, details like these are evidently not yet widespread knowledge when it comes to the Digital Flea (or indeed its non-digital predecessor). But I know some people own this piece of hardware, so hopefully they will be willing to share with us.

As always, I'll submit a series of questions.

1: The Flea boasts the same three types of processing as the Mosquito. However, it has already been pointed out that the Flea performs these operations to a lesser degree. What does this mean, exactly? A comparison of the features of the two units reveals very few differences, apart from the input options.

2: How long does the Flea take to process video? The Mosquito takes something like a third of a frame, if I recall what I read correctly. This is very acceptable. It is difficult to guess whether the Flea's supposedly lesser processing power means "less" or "slower" artifact removal.

3: I tend to doubt that the Flea produces huge quantities of heat, but it can't hurt to ask.

4: Has anyone experienced any deal-breaking issues with the Flea? For example, if I got one home and discovered that it simply could not accept input from one of my sources (a valid concern, as the Mosquito reportedly still has such issues, months after they were first observed), well, it wouldn't be all that useful to me.

5: I note that neither unit is listed as being able to accept or process video whose framerate is not effectively 60. This worries me, as I do not immediately see how the hardware could be useful for film-sourced video. If the video is sent as 480p60, any hope of achieving 24/48/72Hz has probably been lost. If the video is sent as 480i/1080i, will the Flea/Mosquito recognize the intended cadence and process accordingly? Does it even matter? It would be nice to have assurances that the use of a Mosquito/Flea will not jeopardize the goal of judder-free movies.

6: On a related note, is it possible that the firmware could be upgraded to support non-60Hz video? To me, this would seem like a logical next step.

7: Are the processing level settings available on a per-HDMI input basis?

8: By chance, would the processing level settings be adjustable based on the input resolution? (For example, a HD-DVD player can play DVDs as well as HD-DVDs. There are considerable differences in artifacting between the two media types. It would be very handy indeed if the Flea could be set up to utilize higher processing levels for the 480i/p video and minimal levels for the far less demanding 1080i video.)

The FleaHDMI may be an appealing piece of hardware, specifically in conjunction with OTA / satellite sources, as it appears to be a reasonably hands-free device that I could install and essentially never worry about - a highly attractive proposition, given that the users of this hardware will almost certainly be unable to handle any unexpected situations. And the (presumed) price seems fair, given that I am aware that alternative VP solutions are likely to be available within a year which could render the Flea superfluous and even needlessly pricey. But I do like to find out as much as I can about hardware before purchasing it, especially in a field of products whose low penetration generally means high maintenance.

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 272 Old 10-23-2006, 10:03 AM
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You are comparing noise reducers (Mosquito/Flea) to scalers. Two completely different devices. There is also alot of generalizations, and some misinformation here. I have run my Mosquito at framerates other than 60Hz, in 480i, 720, and 1080i.


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For example, it generates a great deal of heat

My Mosquito barely gets warm.
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post #3 of 272 Old 10-23-2006, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axatax View Post

You are comparing noise reducers (Mosquito/Flea) to scalers.

This is no comparison. It's an inquiry. At most, it's a dismissal of VPs that serve deinterlacing and scaling purposes, in favor of a specific focus on the comparatively passive process of artifact removal. Sorry if my introductory comments made it seem like I was fixing to discuss anything but the FleaHDMI.

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Originally Posted by Axatax View Post

There is also alot of generalizations, and some misinformation here.

By all means, be as specific as you can, so that my misinformation can be dutifully corrected. A generalization is, of course, not entirely helpful.

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I have run my Mosquito at framerates other than 60Hz, in 480i, 720, and 1080i.

This is excellent, although it does open a bit of a can of worms since it contradicts the specs provided on Algolith's webpage.

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Originally Posted by Axatax View Post

My Mosquito barely gets warm.

This submission would probably be helpful to the poor individual who started a thread seeking cooling solutions for his Mosquito.

More information is always good. This is precisely the point of my thread. Although in this case I must admit that I almost feel like I had to coerce these tidbits of information out using indirect methods.
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post #4 of 272 Old 10-23-2006, 02:42 PM
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I would be sure you are using the best available source before investing in a product like the Flea.

For example, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to spend $1000-$2000 on a Flea or Mosquito with DirecTV, if a better HD picture (with higher resolution and substantially less noise) was available from your area cable provider.
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post #5 of 272 Old 10-23-2006, 04:19 PM
 
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Sorry to jump in here but does anyone know if the Digital Flea will accept 720p and 1080p inputs at 48, 50 and 60hz ?.

Cheers,

Tony.
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post #6 of 272 Old 10-23-2006, 04:34 PM
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I would think that you have asked the manufacturer, Algolith, these questions?
If so, it would be beneficial to all concerned to read the comments they have submitted on behalf of the Flea HDMI.
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post #7 of 272 Old 10-23-2006, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony-Howard View Post

Sorry to jump in here but does anyone know if the Digital Flea will accept 720p and 1080p inputs at 48, 50 and 60hz ?.

Cheers,

Tony.

Guess what kind of info can be found on thier website?

http://www.algolith.com/index.php?id=177&L=0

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post #8 of 272 Old 10-23-2006, 07:09 PM
 
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Thanks for the comments guys.

I have heard that 48hz works (Although I am not sure at what resolutions) and that 1080p also works. Neither of these are listed on their website. Although I assume that the rumors I have heard are incorrect, afterall why would Algolith not advertise the fact, but I would welcome any feedback from someone with a Digital Flea who has tried it out.

Having said that it does say that 'output follows input' although this could mean almost anything. For instance does this mean that it process all other HDMI standard supported formats (Why not just say this instead of listing formats) or that it just passes them through without NR processing ?.

Cheers,

Tony.
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post #9 of 272 Old 10-23-2006, 09:33 PM
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I'm thinking about the FLEA for my DISH Sattelite HD - Will it work to remove the noise??? Some channels are really bad - I know that DirectTV transmits in HD Lite, but what about Dish? Thanks for any comments/thoughts
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post #10 of 272 Old 10-24-2006, 05:43 AM
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Quote:


This submission would probably be helpful to the poor individual who started a thread seeking cooling solutions for his Mosquito.

Can't give him any solutions, as my Mosquito barely runs warm. My VP30 is a toaster-oven in comparison.
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post #11 of 272 Old 10-24-2006, 10:18 AM
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Quote:


I'm thinking about the FLEA for my DISH Sattelite HD - Will it work to remove the noise??? Some channels are really bad - I know that DirectTV transmits in HD Lite, but what about Dish

Unfortunately, Dish does HD Lite on most (but not all) of its channels as well.

If you have no cable in your area, there's not much else you can do. If you do have cable in your area, I would consider that. Chances are good that the pristine cable HD feed available on FiOS and many Comcast systems would look better than the Flea with the Dish or DirecTV HD feed.
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post #12 of 272 Old 10-24-2006, 11:31 AM
 
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Axatax,

Have you tried outputting 48hz locked from your VP30 ?. If so does the flea perform NR or just pass through ?.

Cheers,

Tony.
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post #13 of 272 Old 10-27-2006, 04:57 AM
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Quote:


Axatax,

Have you tried outputting 48hz locked from your VP30 ?. If so does the flea perform NR or just pass through ?.

I have the Mosquito _before_ the VP30, so no, I have not attempted this.
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post #14 of 272 Old 10-28-2006, 04:05 AM
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AXATAX,

that's exactly how you *should* be connecting it, I don't see the point of using the unit on anything but standard resolutions (which it supports, AFAIK).

the only thing that wold really be interesting in testing is the unit's support for European standards (720P, 576p, 1080i50, 576i). It is utter nonsense to place the unit after a VP.


1080sf24 also makes sense once something outputs it natively (BD?)

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post #15 of 272 Old 01-18-2007, 01:49 PM
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What would the detriment be to connect it after the scaler? I have a VP50 and have 7 HDMI and 1 DVI devices. Four(3 HDTiVo and the On Demand cable box) are going through an HDMI switch before ogoing to the VP50. The Flea only has two HDMI inputs so the only way I could apply processing to all my devices would be to put it after the scaler.

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post #16 of 272 Old 01-18-2007, 04:03 PM
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Quote:


What would the detriment be to connect it after the scaler? I have a VP50 and have 7 HDMI and 1 DVI devices. Four(3 HDTiVo and the On Demand cable box) are going through an HDMI switch before ogoing to the VP50. The Flea only has two HDMI inputs so the only way I could apply processing to all my devices would be to put it after the scaler.

From my understanding, functions such as BAR expect a certain MPEG block size. When the image is scaled, the block sizes are no longer predictable.

The limited input flexibility *is* a big problem with Algolith's form factors. You can forego HDMI on two of your devices and use component, use a switcher, or live without the Mosquito for all of your devices.

I only use the Mosquito with my (single) tuner and DVD player. IMHO, they were more concerned with making a pretty package than offering flexibility. I love this device, but Algolith doesn't seem to be very well tuned in to what most advanced users want. No RS-232, no SDI, limited inputs, and nearly impossible to control consistently with outboard IR equipment.
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post #17 of 272 Old 01-19-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor View Post

AXATAX,

the only thing that wold really be interesting in testing is the unit's support for European standards (720P, 576p, 1080i50, 576i). It is utter nonsense to place the unit after a VP.

All of the resolutions here work with no issues at both 50Hz refresh rate. Comparable 60Hz formats (480i etc) also work correctly.

I have not tested 1080p24 yet however the hardware certainly can support this meaning if support is not already there it can be added via firmware update as soon as there enough decent sources of that rate.

Neil

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post #18 of 272 Old 01-24-2007, 06:47 AM
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I am considering purchasing the HDMi Flea. Where did most people purchase theirs from?

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post #19 of 272 Old 01-24-2007, 02:32 PM
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Another quick question. The FLEA HDMI does pass the audio along with the video over HDMi doesn't it? I'm thinking about getting one to use with my broadcast sources. I curently have all of them going to a Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch before going to a VP50. If I get the FLEA I would put that after the HDMi switch and then the FLEA would output to my VP 50 where it would extract the audio over HDMi to send to my receiver. If the FLEA doesn't pass along the audio it's of no use to me.

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post #20 of 272 Old 01-25-2007, 02:22 PM
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The Flea doesn't handle audio. Its only purpose in life is to reduce "mosquito" noise (i.e. digital compression arifacts).
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post #21 of 272 Old 01-26-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Boden View Post

The Flea doesn't handle audio. Its only purpose in life is to reduce "mosquito" noise (i.e. digital compression arifacts).

It doesn't process the audio, but it should pass the audio (and possibly delay it accordingly?) along.

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post #22 of 272 Old 01-26-2007, 01:48 PM
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Anyone have a Flea for sale--the original using S-Video and Component?
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post #23 of 272 Old 01-26-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munch View Post

It doesn't process the audio, but it should pass the audio (and possibly delay it accordingly?) along.

Like I already said, you cannot connect audio to the Flea. It's not a scalar, only a noise reduction device. Algolith does have other products, like the Mosquiteo and Dragonfly. Go to algolith.com for product info.
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post #24 of 272 Old 01-26-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Boden View Post

Like I already said, you cannot connect audio to the Flea.

I haven't tried on my Flea HDMI, but I see no reason why algolith would go out of their way to disable audio pass-through on the HDMI ports. There are two standard switched HDMI ports on the flea. They *should* allow audio to be carried, as per the HDMI spec.

If, for some strange reason, the Flea ignores the HDMI spec and has the audio pins disconnected, you can always split the audio out from the HDMI output of your switch and connect the audio directly to the VP50 or use two of the HDMI audio/video splitters and re-join the audio prior to connecting to teh VP50. I believe gefen makes HDMI audio/video splitters.
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post #25 of 272 Old 01-27-2007, 07:56 AM
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I want to know how much PQ improvement using hdmi flea.
Blu-ray or hd-dvd player has a very good PQ in normally,
If you compare difference, note that.
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post #26 of 272 Old 01-27-2007, 10:45 AM
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I only plan on using my FLEA with broadcast sources. I will keep my BD and HD DVD player going straight to the VP50. Hopefully I'll get the FLEA by next weekend. I kept missing Jason when I called yesterday to give hime the order info.

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post #27 of 272 Old 01-30-2007, 09:49 AM
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I was hoping to clear up a few problems here on this thread.
The Flea HDMI passes Video and Audio as it's meant to be with all HDMI connections.
The Flea HDMI processes the video and passes the audio with no delay.
THe Flea is made to address many different forms of Noise Reduction. This is not a scaler. Algolith has a scaler called The Dragonfly.
The Flea will also address the following resolutions;480i,480p,720p,1080i, and 1080p24. 1080p24 will be available this week through a firmware upgrade.
We also support European standards.
The Flea will address noise from any mpeg source ex: SD and HD.
It does a excellent job cleaning high definition sources from cable,sat,hddvd,etc.
For more information, please visit our website.

Regards,
Anthony M
Tech support
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post #28 of 272 Old 01-30-2007, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Boden View Post

Like I already said, you cannot connect audio to the Flea. It's not a scalar, only a noise reduction device. Algolith does have other products, like the Mosquiteo and Dragonfly. Go to algolith(dot)com for product info.

Jim, The Flea HDMI carries both Video and Audio. We process the video and pass audio with no delays.

Regards
Anthony M
Tech Support
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post #29 of 272 Old 01-30-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I am considering purchasing the HDMi Flea. Where did most people purchase theirs from?

You can buy your Flea right from AVS.

Regards,

Anthony M
Tech Support
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post #30 of 272 Old 01-30-2007, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Algolith Support View Post

I was hoping to clear up a few problems here on this thread.
The Flea HDMI passes Video and Audio as it's meant to be with all HDMI connections.
The Flea HDMI processes the video and passes the audio with no delay.
THe Flea is made to address many different forms of Noise Reduction. This is not a scaler. Algolith has a scaler called The Dragonfly.
The Flea will also address the following resolutions;480i,480p,720p,1080i, and 1080p24. 1080p24 will be available this week through a firmware upgrade.
We also support European standards.
The Flea will address noise from any mpeg source ex: SD and HD.
It does a excellent job cleaning high definition sources from cable,sat,hddvd,etc.
For more information, please visit our website.

Regards,
Anthony M
Tech support
Algolith Inc.


Hello Anthony,

have you solved the below black problem on your SDI to HDMI converter ?

I'm considering buying either the Mosquito or Flea if the converter works

perfectly

Michael
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