Gefen Set to Launch SD to HD Home Theater Scaler for $399 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 214 Old 04-19-2007, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

How close do you need to be to a 17" screen to see the benefits of HD?

About 3 or 4 feet for me. Not uncommon in a kitchen work area.

From further than that 480p is fine, but just try to find a 480p computer monitor these days. And if your primary content is 720p, why scale down?
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post #182 of 214 Old 05-03-2007, 04:46 AM
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just googled gefen scaler and found it is now available for reasonably less than retail price at a couple reputable sites. The lower price makes it a bit more attractive for what it does. I was thinking since it claims to support scaling to 1920x1200 it would be perfect for a 24" monitor for hooking up consoles and stb and saving space on getting another tv. My girlfriend is getting a 24" for photoshop work before next semester and I was thinking I could use it with the gefen when she is using the 37" westy.
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post #183 of 214 Old 05-03-2007, 11:17 AM
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I looked at their forums last night and it seems that all NEW Geffen scalers come with the new firmware, which fixes quite a few problems. Interestingly enough, I don't think I will get one just yet. I think I will look into getting a video processor of some sort, such as the Flea or Mosquito. Not sure which one yet, but I doubt it will be any time soon because I have to rebuild my budget some. LOL!
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post #184 of 214 Old 05-04-2007, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I'm leaning towards something like the Algolith Flea myself. If you're having a similar issue, and your internal scaler is decent, I think cleaning up all the noise and compression artifacts (like I have - mostly "mosquito" noise) first will be a bigger improvement.

Of course, we're talkin' about $649 more bucks here. But, in my case at least, I think it'd be the better investment. If I could afford their Dragonfly, I'd probably just get that. But that's pretty out of my reach right now.

Don't forget to get a quote on the Flea from Jason Turk of AV Science - Good discount for forum members just in case you or others hadn't thought of that.

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post #185 of 214 Old 05-05-2007, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Don't forget to get a quote on the Flea from Jason Turk of AV Science - Good discount for forum members just in case you or others hadn't thought of that.

Thanks for that info .
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post #186 of 214 Old 05-05-2007, 09:19 AM
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Yeah, thanks for the info.
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post #187 of 214 Old 05-10-2007, 06:44 AM
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I am using a combination of the Gefen HT scaler (2.2 firmware) and the Flea HDMI and am getting pretty decent results overall. I am ouputting crappy cable SD/HD signals through a Panasonic AX100 to a 150inch screen and the diff in pic with and without the processing is significant. Both units combined cost me $1100 (ebay for the flea) and I am very happy.
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post #188 of 214 Old 05-15-2007, 11:44 PM
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Will the Gefen HT scaler (2.2 firmware) do propor 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing, not just a bump down to 540p and then scale it up to 1080p afterwards ????
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post #189 of 214 Old 05-23-2007, 02:33 PM
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I asked your question in the gefen forum as I own this unit. Can anyone explain to me in less tech terms what this means? Here is the response:

Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers with adaptive edge- oriented adaptive algorithm for smooth low-angle edge.

This is not downscaling to 540p, the upscaling to 1080p, it does a true de-interlacing.

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post #190 of 214 Old 05-24-2007, 11:17 AM
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I have no idea what he is saying.

I wish we could get a shootout for the 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing against some of the high end units.

Seems a lot of folks want this feature over all others but do not want to shell out the big bucks - is it possible......................
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post #191 of 214 Old 05-24-2007, 05:44 PM
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Whatever happened to shootouts? Hardly see them anymore.
Quote:


This is not downscaling to 540p, the upscaling to 1080p, it does a true de-interlacing.

I'd have to guess this means no conversion to 540p, but no indication on how it deinterlaces 1080i. "true de-interlacing"could mean a number of things.
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post #192 of 214 Old 05-24-2007, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shollndr View Post

I asked your question in the gefen forum as I own this unit. Can anyone explain to me in less tech terms what this means? Here is the response:

Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers with adaptive edge- oriented adaptive algorithm for smooth low-angle edge.

This is not downscaling to 540p, the upscaling to 1080p, it does a true de-interlacing.

Anthony Cortez
Tech. Support
818.884.6294 xt 263
800.545.6900 xt 263
anthony@gefen.com

He is saying that it does motion adaptive de-interlacers with edge enhancements for video programing, easy right LOL

BASICLY there are two types of programing Film and Video.

BASICLY Film content should have "Flags" that tell the de-interlacer what fields go where this is called 3:2 pull-down

BASICLY Video does not have the "Flags" so the de-interlacer most figure out what goes where. There are a few ways to do this the worst is called a "BOB", 540p scaled to you native res. The "best" is motion adaptive where it "detects" what is moving, what is not and uses different de-interlaceing methods (including BOB) to give you the best image.

Mostly you can't get 1080p from 1080i with video you get some where in-between 540p and 1080p so some scaling most be done in the image and why edge enhancements MAYBE better.

Make sense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing
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post #193 of 214 Old 07-01-2007, 06:29 PM
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So, does this thing actually improve image quality now? I remember the initial reviews were pretty negative
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post #194 of 214 Old 08-09-2007, 10:52 AM
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http://www.htguys.com/archive/2007/July27.html

Today's Show:
We have reviewed video scaler/processors in the past that cost between $1000 and $2000. We found that the improvement was quite noticeable on larger screens. But if you had a screen of 50 inches or less the improvement, although noticeable, was not worth the steep price tag. Today, we are taking a look at a scaler that costs $450 and can scale your video, convert your analog sources to digital, and act as a switch box for up to four video sources. We are talking about the Gefen Home Theater Scaler. Its a device that's slightly bigger than a Mac Mini.


Gefen Home Theater Scaler MSRP $450

Features include:
Digital and analog inputs are format converted and scaled
DVI/HDCP/HDMI compliant
Supports digital HD output up to 1080p
Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers
Automatic 3:2 pull-down & 2:2 pull-down detection and recovery.
Option to select Audio input from HDMI or TOSlink/SPDIF audio source.
3D noise reduction on analog inputs only.
Digital Audio Delay to match audio/video timing
Less then one frame delay allowing for gaming

Setup:
Connection is straight forward connect the video sources to the scaler and connect the HDMI output to the TV. The Home Theater Scaler comes with a remote control for the basic functions of selecting which input to use and what output resolution to scale to as well as basic GUI navigation (up, down, left, right). From out of the box to picture on the screen was less than ten minutes. The device is easy to use. More on that in a bit.

Performance:
In objective and subjective tests we saw an improvement in picture quality. For the objective tests we used the HQV benchmark DVD and a 720p and 1080p TV. Note: These TVs are well calibrated so we did not use any of the adjustments of the Home Theater Scaler. In general we recommend calibrating the TV and leaving these type of devices in the default settings. But you may find an application where having control over the picture via the scaler is necessary. The Home Theater Scaler lets you adjust the typical settings of Contrast, Brightness, Hue, Saturation, and Sharpness. The scaler also has predefined settings of Vivid, Standard, and Picture settings. There is also a noise reduction setting that can only be used with the component settings. We found off was the best setting here.

The DVD player was setup to output a 480i signal over HDMI. The device passed the Color Bar and Vertical Detail tests with flying colors. It did a very good job with all the Jaggies tests. The Jaggies tests the scalers ability to deal with moving objects. For Detail Enhancement, Noise Reduction, and Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction the Home Theater Scaler did a good job with the test material. The only area where we had a concern was with the 3:2 detection. In the test scene a Moire pattern was visible. Our Oppo upconverting DVD player was able to handle the same scene with no issues. A Moire pattern is the display of an unintended pattern created by displaying several patterns on top of each other. The lasts two tests Mixed 3:2 film with text scroll and crawl were no problems for this device.

For the subjective tests we watched DVDs and Satellite TV. In each case the Home Theater Scaler did a good job with one exception. Upconverting 720p to 1080p showed some issues. When watching baseball on ESPN, the grass showed artifacts that looked similar to macro blocking. When the satellite box was set to the native resolution (without the scaler in the loop) and the TV upconverted the picture to 1080p the macro blocking was less pronounced. When the scaler was moved to the 720p TV for the same baseball game there was no macro blocking. For SD content (480i) off the DirecTV satellite box we saw an improvement over letting the cable box do the upconverting. Our movies played off our DVD player looked good as well.

Odds and Ends:
The menus are easy to navigate with the included remote control (there is no way to do anything with this device without the remote). You toggle between inputs. There is no direct access. Output resolution is the same way but for that you would set it once and pretty much forget it. There is a mode that allows you to set the overscan or underscan on the device. We were hoping that the underscan feature would help out on the Mac Mini. But it works similar to the PC feature of the TV. When underscan is activated there entire desktop of the computer is visible but there is a black border that surrounds the entire desktop. The only thing that is missing on the device are S-Video and RCA inputs for legacy VHS players. If you need S-Video or composite inputs the Home Theater Scaler+ will take care of those needs for $50 more. The component inputs only accept two channel analog audio while the digital inputs will accept digital coax or optical audio. The analog audio is digitized and then added to the video signal on the HDMI output. So you can't get Dolby Digital from a DVD player with analog video unless you run the audio directly to the receiver. The scaler can delay the audio to keep it in sync with the video in this case.

Conclusion:
If you have a Set Top Box, DVD player and a game console but only one HDMI input on your TV, this product will allow you to watch all of them in 720p or 1080p with one cable going to the TV. At the top of the review we mentioned that the $2000 scalers were good investments for people with large screens. We still feel that way about this $450 device. Consider the Home Theater Scaler if you have screen 50 inches or greater.
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post #195 of 214 Old 08-09-2007, 10:59 AM
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http://www.htguys.com/archive/2007/July27.html

Today's Show:
We have reviewed video scaler/processors in the past that cost between $1000 and $2000. We found that the improvement was quite noticeable on larger screens. But if you had a screen of 50 inches or less the improvement, although noticeable, was not worth the steep price tag. Today, we are taking a look at a scaler that costs $450 and can scale your video, convert your analog sources to digital, and act as a switch box for up to four video sources. We are talking about the Gefen Home Theater Scaler. Its a device that's slightly bigger than a Mac Mini.


Gefen Home Theater Scaler MSRP $450

Features include:
Digital and analog inputs are format converted and scaled
DVI/HDCP/HDMI compliant
Supports digital HD output up to 1080p
Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers
Automatic 3:2 pull-down & 2:2 pull-down detection and recovery.
Option to select Audio input from HDMI or TOSlink/SPDIF audio source.
3D noise reduction on analog inputs only.
Digital Audio Delay to match audio/video timing
Less then one frame delay allowing for gaming

Setup:
Connection is straight forward connect the video sources to the scaler and connect the HDMI output to the TV. The Home Theater Scaler comes with a remote control for the basic functions of selecting which input to use and what output resolution to scale to as well as basic GUI navigation (up, down, left, right). From out of the box to picture on the screen was less than ten minutes. The device is easy to use. More on that in a bit.

Performance:
In objective and subjective tests we saw an improvement in picture quality. For the objective tests we used the HQV benchmark DVD and a 720p and 1080p TV. Note: These TVs are well calibrated so we did not use any of the adjustments of the Home Theater Scaler. In general we recommend calibrating the TV and leaving these type of devices in the default settings. But you may find an application where having control over the picture via the scaler is necessary. The Home Theater Scaler lets you adjust the typical settings of Contrast, Brightness, Hue, Saturation, and Sharpness. The scaler also has predefined settings of Vivid, Standard, and Picture settings. There is also a noise reduction setting that can only be used with the component settings. We found off was the best setting here.

The DVD player was setup to output a 480i signal over HDMI. The device passed the Color Bar and Vertical Detail tests with flying colors. It did a very good job with all the Jaggies tests. The Jaggies tests the scalers ability to deal with moving objects. For Detail Enhancement, Noise Reduction, and Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction the Home Theater Scaler did a good job with the test material. The only area where we had a concern was with the 3:2 detection. In the test scene a Moire pattern was visible. Our Oppo upconverting DVD player was able to handle the same scene with no issues. A Moire pattern is the display of an unintended pattern created by displaying several patterns on top of each other. The lasts two tests Mixed 3:2 film with text scroll and crawl were no problems for this device.

For the subjective tests we watched DVDs and Satellite TV. In each case the Home Theater Scaler did a good job with one exception. Upconverting 720p to 1080p showed some issues. When watching baseball on ESPN, the grass showed artifacts that looked similar to macro blocking. When the satellite box was set to the native resolution (without the scaler in the loop) and the TV upconverted the picture to 1080p the macro blocking was less pronounced. When the scaler was moved to the 720p TV for the same baseball game there was no macro blocking. For SD content (480i) off the DirecTV satellite box we saw an improvement over letting the cable box do the upconverting. Our movies played off our DVD player looked good as well.

Odds and Ends:
The menus are easy to navigate with the included remote control (there is no way to do anything with this device without the remote). You toggle between inputs. There is no direct access. Output resolution is the same way but for that you would set it once and pretty much forget it. There is a mode that allows you to set the overscan or underscan on the device. We were hoping that the underscan feature would help out on the Mac Mini. But it works similar to the PC feature of the TV. When underscan is activated there entire desktop of the computer is visible but there is a black border that surrounds the entire desktop. The only thing that is missing on the device are S-Video and RCA inputs for legacy VHS players. If you need S-Video or composite inputs the Home Theater Scaler+ will take care of those needs for $50 more. The component inputs only accept two channel analog audio while the digital inputs will accept digital coax or optical audio. The analog audio is digitized and then added to the video signal on the HDMI output. So you can't get Dolby Digital from a DVD player with analog video unless you run the audio directly to the receiver. The scaler can delay the audio to keep it in sync with the video in this case.

Conclusion:
If you have a Set Top Box, DVD player and a game console but only one HDMI input on your TV, this product will allow you to watch all of them in 720p or 1080p with one cable going to the TV. At the top of the review we mentioned that the $2000 scalers were good investments for people with large screens. We still feel that way about this $450 device. Consider the Home Theater Scaler if you have screen 50 inches or greater.
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post #196 of 214 Old 09-12-2007, 08:23 PM
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I just ordered the Gefen Home Theater Scaler and will give it a try. I have a 57" RP CRT that downcoverts 1080i to 480p. For this reason my Dish STB is set to 1080i, but I've never been real happy with 720p channels. I'm curious as to whether or not this device will be any better converting 720p to 1080i. I know my TV does a much better job with converting 480i signals (but not sure exactly what resolution it displays them at) than the STB does converting then to 1080i. So I'm hoping I'll see some benefit with 720p to 1080i using the Gefen.

If not, I'll just return it. I'm not ready to shell out $1000+ for a processor for this TV.
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post #197 of 214 Old 09-13-2007, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brundall View Post

Well - I received my HT Scaler today - so what do you guys want to know? Keep in mind I am pretty noobish when it comes to this stuff so keep the technical jargon to a minimum.

Will it convert a 480p component signal into 720p HDMI or component? It's a bit pricey but could do for a project I'm working on.
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post #198 of 214 Old 09-20-2007, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

I'm curious as to whether or not this device will be any better converting 720p to 1080i than my Dish ViP622 .

Nope, pretty much the same, maybe slightly worse. I'm going to return mine.
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post #199 of 214 Old 09-21-2007, 04:08 PM
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I just ordered the HTS to use with my 37" Westinghouse. It doesn't work very well with 1080i material when it has to deinterlace and you get ghosting. It doesn't have that problem with 720P or 1080P material so my plan is to use the HTS so I can always feed the Westinghouse 1080P. Hopefully it will work well enough. I don't use the set for critical viewing but i do notice the loss in resolution if I have to scale down 1080i to 720P. Straight 1080i has more detail but then it has the ghosting so hopefully the HTS will be what I need.

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post #200 of 214 Old 09-22-2007, 09:12 PM
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aaronwt,

Did you get FW 4.0 update?

My prediction is you will still get ghosting by nicely "upconverted" to 1080p and fed to your Westinghouse.
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post #201 of 214 Old 03-09-2008, 10:25 PM
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I was wondering if anyone could tell me if this scanner will output in 1360x768.

My problem is that I have an LG 37lb4d LCD which has a terrible built in scanner. Things work fine if the video source is outputting exactly in the television's native resolution. The XBOX 360, for example, can output in 1360x768 and there is no lag when I play games. However, there is a substantial delay with something like the Wii in 480p. I was hoping to use this scaler to convert the Wii signal to my native resolution. That way the television's scanner won't have to slow things down. By the way, I have fiddled with the television's settings and have not been able to reduce the 480p lag.

So, does anyone have experience with the Geffen Home Theater Scaler? Will it output in 1360x768 (or 1366x768)? I am confused because the online manual does not list this resolution for output. However, the Cnet page for the GHTS suggests that it can output in 1360x768. Thanks for the help!
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post #202 of 214 Old 04-30-2008, 06:37 PM
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is the firmware upgradeable by ourselves?
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post #203 of 214 Old 04-30-2008, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

aaronwt,

Did you get FW 4.0 update?

My prediction is you will still get ghosting by nicely "upconverted" to 1080p and fed to your Westinghouse.

No, the ghosting is gone when I feed it 1080P60. It's only there if I feed it 1080i. It's fine with 720P and 1080P.

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post #204 of 214 Old 05-01-2008, 07:54 AM
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hi guys, I'm wondering if you can underscan (not JustScan aka 100% Scan) the source at a specific percentage. I need this option to offset my 5084 which always overscan anything at 4:3 output.

While feeding SD sources, does the output via HDMI having 2 side bars (can we change the side bar color?) or 100% stretch to its fullest? which is 16:9? Or is there a specific ratio we could choose too?

Does the HDMI out contains audio too?
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post #205 of 214 Old 05-07-2008, 10:09 AM
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I have some interest in this unit for my SD cable. I have a 50" Samsung HP-S5053 plasma. The scaler in my TV is fine, I can live with that. However, there is so much noise around the outline of objects that SD cable is almost unbearable to watch. Mosquito noise? My TV's Noise Reduction does nothing visible at all, and DNIe does so much processing, I just leave it off. I have Charter Digital cable. Mainly I want this box as a deinterlacer and noise reduction and output atleast 480p. It seems it can also output 1360x768? My TV is native 1366x768.

So really, how would this work for me? Is the noise reduction worth mentioning? Does it do a solid job of deinterlacing?

Again, I really don't care about it's upscaling, I could live with my TV's scaling, it's not bad at all. 480p works for me.

Thanks.
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post #206 of 214 Old 05-09-2008, 10:43 AM
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Plasma cannot be 1366x768, it has to be 1365x768.
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post #207 of 214 Old 05-09-2008, 12:59 PM
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post #208 of 214 Old 05-14-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post

I have some interest in this unit for my SD cable. I have a 50" Samsung HP-S5053 plasma. The scaler in my TV is fine, I can live with that. However, there is so much noise around the outline of objects that SD cable is almost unbearable to watch. Mosquito noise? My TV's Noise Reduction does nothing visible at all, and DNIe does so much processing, I just leave it off. I have Charter Digital cable. Mainly I want this box as a deinterlacer and noise reduction and output atleast 480p. It seems it can also output 1360x768? My TV is native 1366x768.

So really, how would this work for me? Is the noise reduction worth mentioning? Does it do a solid job of deinterlacing?

Again, I really don't care about it's upscaling, I could live with my TV's scaling, it's not bad at all. 480p works for me.

Thanks.

Anybody have any experience that could help me out?
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post #209 of 214 Old 05-14-2008, 10:05 AM
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Are you referring to the new GefenTV Scaler Pro coming out this summer? If so, no one has seen it in action yet, so it's impossible to comment on its performance. The Gefen Home Theater Scaler, which is the subject of this thread, is a different animal altogether and has no noise reduction capabilities.
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post #210 of 214 Old 05-14-2008, 10:11 AM
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It says on the site "3D noise reduction on analog inputs only."

I am referring to the Home Theater Scaler. I am assuming I could send a 480i signal to the scaler via component, have the scaler deinterlace and do noise reduction, and be sent out 480p over HDMI?
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