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post #91 of 179 Old 11-27-2006, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schen View Post

I hooked up the Isync Pro to my oppo 971 and optoma H77. Via component it was able to accept 480i and output 480i through HDMI to the projector. Oppo 971 doesn't output 480i via DVI so i was not able to assess that, but it accepted 480p, 720p, 1080i and scales it to every resolution imaginable. It really does everything described in the owner's manual and the set up and operation is easy. The PQ, though, was less sharp and grainy and the dark level was elevated with loss of shadow detail, almost reminding me of the PQ of my old LCD projector. This is true of all combinations of resolutions. Oppo 970 without the Faruja chip would be a better player in this case.
BTY, my Isync Pro has a revised firmware 2.09


I received mine last Thursday and have done a lot of testing over the weekend and I can confirm + add the following issues with the Isync Pro:

1. Signal over HDMI and Component obtains a grainy net of noise pulled out over the entire screen no matter what the source is (STB, DVD, Digital mediacenter). This is especially noticeable with a dark scene as a background. Component is worse than HDMI.

2. Deinterlacing of 1080i film input produces very noticeable scanlines during rapid movements making it useless for handling 1080i source material. This is true no matter what progressive resolution I output.

3. Sync problems when switching between color input/output, resolution input & input sources. Often you have to toggle the switch to get the Isync in sync (haha) with the new resolution/color/input.


Above has only been tested with output resolution set to 576p, 720p & 1080i respectively as my 50 inch 1366x768 plasma does not do native resolution.

1. Test scenario to eliminate apparent signal noise has been:

Cable length max. 1.5 meter TV<->Isync<->source in good quality. Different setups with all analogue or digital cables plus mixed in any combination possible (analogue input worst). Removal of all other connected cables but input/output.
Isolation of the Isync from all other electrical cables & equipment.
Noise is present at any resolution and is seen like an overlay in the picture.
Bypassing the Isync is noise free with any of the sources tested.

2. Deinterlacing of 1080i film based sources has been tested with both Component and HDMI with same results. Deinterlacing has been tested with output res. 576p & 720p with same results. 1080i film has also been tested from both DVD and HD-STB @ both 50 & 60 Hz.
Bypassing the Isync and letting the TV deinterlace 1080i film produces zero scanlines or other artefacts during rapid movement.

3. Sync problems have been discovered during normal switch operation and quickly become an annoying factor in the daily use of the Isync.

Btw. Firmware 2.09.


PLUSSES: Scaling and deinterlacing of SD material is superior to the VP in my Philips 50PF9967D (I'm in Europe) so I definitely think it's a good value to the price offered in the powerbuy.

Conclusion: It's a good SD-video processor for people in the low-cost range, but the Isync is not for HD. At least IMHO...
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post #92 of 179 Old 11-27-2006, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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IMO I have found that ISync Pro is good mainly for converting 1080i/720p to 1080p. Conversion to any other resolution results in softening of picture & some artifacts. I have tested it on my 720p pj & 1080p Samsung dlp.

Vinod
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post #93 of 179 Old 11-27-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:


Conclusion: It's a good SD-video processor for people in the low-cost range, but the Isync is not for HD.

Quote:


IMO I have found that ISync Pro is good mainly for converting 1080i/720p to 1080p.

Obviously, people are having different, indeed opposite, experiences. I wonder if this has to do with differences between PAL and NTSC.

Tom Huffman
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post #94 of 179 Old 11-27-2006, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Obviously, people are having different, indeed opposite, experiences. I wonder if this has to do with differences between PAL and NTSC.

No. I am in the US. The difference between my setup and Randomcreeks' is that he uses Oppo 970 and I use Oppo 971, which utilizes the Faroudja chip. In a few days I will have the 970 then we will see if my suspicion is correct.
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post #95 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 06:02 AM
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After missing out on a VP30 for $1K on Thanksgiving (thanks to dial-up at the mother in-law's house), I ended up ordering one of these from Digital Connection and it should be here on Friday. I'll be hooking up a DirecTV HR10-250 HD box via HDMI, an Onkyo SP-800 DVD player via component, and eventually a PS3 for Blu-ray playback via HDMI. Output will be via HDMI to a Vizio 50" plasma.

Does anyone have any tips as far as input/output resolution on the HDMI side of things? Any other setup tips?

Thanks,
pjdavep
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post #96 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 06:54 AM
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No. I am in the US.

I was referring to nstelmach and vinodk's posts that reported opposite results with HD performance.

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post #97 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjdavep View Post

After missing out on a VP30 for $1K on Thanksgiving (thanks to dial-up at the mother in-law's house), I ended up ordering one of these from Digital Connection and it should be here on Friday.

How was a VP30 available for $1K? From DVDO's website, AVS, or elsewhere?
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post #98 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 07:56 AM
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The iSync sound like it might be what I'm looking for, but I'm hoping that somebody who has some experience with it can answer a few questions, and give my an honest opinion. I'm fairly new to video processing, so please bear with me...

I just got a new 50" plasma TV and discovered that my Satellite-Tivo boxes really look bad when expanded out to that big of a picture. I posted a few places for suggestions, and was pointed to the VP20+102, and to the iSync.

The sat boxes are SD, and have S-Video out, the TV is 720p native.

Do you guys think this would make a significant difference in PQ, or should I keep saving and get a DVDO unit? I'm a little hesitant to spend more on a video processor than I did on the TV, but that may just be because I'm still new to this.

And before you suggest that I move up to HD, I've looked into doing that as well, but the HD boxes that I'd be getting would cost about 1500 to replace the two SD boxes that I have now. I'd rather keep what I've got and go HD when I move in a few years, and redo the whole setup from the ground up.

Right now, the powerbuy just seems like too good of a deal to be true. I'm just worried that it won't help my situation.

thanks
-Jeff
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post #99 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I was referring to nstelmach and vinodk's posts that reported opposite results with HD performance.

Just for the record:

Both my dvd and STB cab output @ 60Hz, and my TV can also handle 60 Hz input. I tested deinterlacing @ both 50 & 60 Hz with same results.

If nobody else can see these obvious horizontal lines during rapid movements, then I'm starting to suspect I have a faulty unit.

Btw. the lines I'm refering to only appears in the part of the picture thats in motion.

I could try to take some hi-res pictures to show the problem, but I'm not sure what the attachment limitations are with the amount of post I have...
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post #100 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisdxl32 View Post

How was a VP30 available for $1K? From DVDO's website, AVS, or elsewhere?

Some guy had brand new one on eBay as a buy-it-now for 2K, but with bidding starting at 1K and no reserve. No one seemed to notice. It ended on Thanksgiving day and I went to bid at the last minute, but the dial-up connection was soooo slow that I couldn't even get the bid in. I was quite pissed. He immediately relisted as a 1 day auction, starting at $500 and it ended up going to just over $1200.

Later,
pjdavep
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post #101 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjdavep View Post

Some guy had brand new one on eBay as a buy-it-now for 2K, but with bidding starting at 1K and no reserve. No one seemed to notice. It ended on Thanksgiving day and I went to bid at the last minute, but the dial-up connection was soooo slow that I couldn't even get the bid in. I was quite pissed. He immediately relisted as a 1 day auction, starting at $500 and it ended up going to just over $1200.

Later,
pjdavep

www.auctionsniper.com
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post #102 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 11:24 AM
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f nobody else can see these obvious horizontal lines during rapid movements, then I'm starting to suspect I have a faulty unit.

Btw. the lines I'm refering to only appears in the part of the picture thats in motion.

Yes, given the rather gross and obvious artifacts that you report, I would think you have a defective unit. I would contact Key Digital for a repair or replacement.

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post #103 of 179 Old 11-28-2006, 05:52 PM
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Can those who already have the iSync Pro comment on whether it applies the appropriate audio delay to compensate for the (presumed) delay with video processing? Or does the user have to add it manually via the receiver or pre/pro?
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post #104 of 179 Old 11-29-2006, 07:56 AM
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I am thinking that when I get my iSync, I'll try both the HDMI output and the component/H/V sync output to my Vizio and go with whichever looks best.

Will I just need this cable to go from the iSync analog out to the computer VGA/RGB port on my Vizio?
http://www.digitalconnection.com/pro...les/eehd5r.asp

Thanks,
pjdavep
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post #105 of 179 Old 11-29-2006, 08:01 AM
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That'll work.
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post #106 of 179 Old 11-29-2006, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisdxl32 View Post

Can those who already have the iSync Pro comment on whether it applies the appropriate audio delay to compensate for the (presumed) delay with video processing? Or does the user have to add it manually via the receiver or pre/pro?

The audio through both coaxial & optical is in perfect sync so no need for adjustments.
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post #107 of 179 Old 11-29-2006, 12:59 PM
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Kei, do I contact Key Digital or your support staff about the problems I have with my unit?

Btw. I just bought a Clean Power AC unit today to rule out electrical noise, but no change so I'm running out of options to try. I actually disconnected the Isync earlier today because I get a cleaner picture connecting directly to the TV, but I miss the nice deinterlacer in the Isync.
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post #108 of 179 Old 11-29-2006, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nstelmach View Post

The audio through both coaxial & optical is in perfect sync so no need for adjustments.

Just to confirm, you have your audio running thru the ISync, and not straight to the receiver?

Thanks,
pjdavep
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post #109 of 179 Old 11-29-2006, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schen View Post

No. I am in the US. The difference between my setup and Randomcreeks' is that he uses Oppo 970 and I use Oppo 971, which utilizes the Faroudja chip. In a few days I will have the 970 then we will see if my suspicion is correct.

Sorry I put the wrong model number in my post. I use the Oppo 971 with the Faroudja chip also for all my DVD tests.
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post #110 of 179 Old 11-29-2006, 11:22 PM
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[quote=nstelmach]Just for the record:



If nobody else can see these obvious horizontal lines during rapid movements, then I'm starting to suspect I have a faulty unit.

I see the same artifact but only when the picture is zoomed (either v or h/v). To me they are not lines but more like the picture is sliced/overlaps horizontally. It comes in quick flashes once very 5-10 secs.
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post #111 of 179 Old 11-30-2006, 08:30 AM
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New to the forum, I am setting up my dedicated HT on a budget, I have Optoma HD70 projector and since I was planning on using it with Upconverting DVD Player (Oppo or Sony) and Comcast HD /SD Cable over HDMI (HD8300DVR) only, I was thinking I would upgrade my Onkyo SR601 with the 804 or Yamaha 2700 AV receiver, to get the switching and converting in the receiver so I can run a single HDMI cable to the projector - now I'm thinking that I would probably get better video across the board if I just stuck with what I have (Progressive DVD and Onkyo 601 receiver) and used the Video Processor to handle all the conversion and switching - and for the price, I would probably end up spending less than switching out my receiver and DVD player -

My Projector is 720P and can accept native (no scaling) -

Am I missing something here or is this a better way to go - I plan on watching mostly DVD and HD Broadcast in the HT - it would be nice to have decent SD capabilities as well -

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
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post #112 of 179 Old 11-30-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

Sorry I put the wrong model number in my post. I use the Oppo 971 with the Faroudja chip also for all my DVD tests.

Yep, everything goes through the Isync...
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post #113 of 179 Old 11-30-2006, 12:08 PM
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[quote=schen]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nstelmach View Post

Just for the record:



If nobody else can see these obvious horizontal lines during rapid movements, then I'm starting to suspect I have a faulty unit.

I see the same artifact but only when the picture is zoomed (either v or h/v). To me they are not lines but more like the picture is sliced/overlaps horizontally. It comes in quick flashes once very 5-10 secs.

I don't think we are talking about the same then. The lines I'm refering to are motion artifacts and if you input native 1080i material and output 720p (sorry I can't say for 1080p out) the lines are very noticable and the picture is unwatchable as HDTV. Also the lines are only in the part of the picture that is in motion.
With upscaled SD (to 1080i) material the lines are also there, but they're thinner and you don't see them as clearly.

Anyway my biggest concern is the noise introduced in the picture as described earlier as I mainly bought the Isync for SD scaling and deinterlacing.
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post #114 of 179 Old 11-30-2006, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan_bond View Post

New to the forum, I am setting up my dedicated HT on a budget, I have Optoma HD70 projector and since I was planning on using it with Upconverting DVD Player (Oppo or Sony) and Comcast HD /SD Cable over HDMI (HD8300DVR) only, I was thinking I would upgrade my Onkyo SR601 with the 804 or Yamaha 2700 AV receiver, to get the switching and converting in the receiver so I can run a single HDMI cable to the projector - now I'm thinking that I would probably get better video across the board if I just stuck with what I have (Progressive DVD and Onkyo 601 receiver) and used the Video Processor to handle all the conversion and switching - and for the price, I would probably end up spending less than switching out my receiver and DVD player -

My Projector is 720P and can accept native (no scaling) -

Am I missing something here or is this a better way to go - I plan on watching mostly DVD and HD Broadcast in the HT - it would be nice to have decent SD capabilities as well -

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Stephan, I've come to the same conclusion in putting together my HT with budget constraints. The price for the iSync Pro and a $400-$500 receiver (I need to upgrade my receiver) together still is comparable to the prices for receivers that are able to scale 480 to 720/1080. Hopefully, the picture quality is better with the iSync than with those receivers. So if you don't need to upgrade your receiver, you'll come out ahead pricewise.

Progressive scan DVD players do their own deinterlacing from 480i to 480p, but if you have a video processor, you want the VP to be doing the deinterlacing rather than the DVD player. Presumably, the more expensive VP has better algorithms or hardware for deinterlacing than the DVD player. You would need to check to see if your DVD player can bypass its deinterlacing and output a 480i signal to the VP, or get a DVD player that does so (like the Oppo 970).
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post #115 of 179 Old 11-30-2006, 07:40 PM
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[quote=nstelmach]
Quote:
Originally Posted by schen View Post


I don't think we are talking about the same then. The lines I'm refering to are motion artifacts and if you input native 1080i material and output 720p (sorry I can't say for 1080p out) the lines are very noticable and the picture is unwatchable as HDTV. Also the lines are only in the part of the picture that is in motion.
With upscaled SD (to 1080i) material the lines are also there, but they're thinner and you don't see them as clearly.

Anyway my biggest concern is the noise introduced in the picture as described earlier as I mainly bought the Isync for SD scaling and deinterlacing.

I agree.
My Oppo 970 arrived today and I used it to feed 1080i over HDMI to iSync and output 720p to my projector. The picture came out clean without any artifact. I used to have a lot of horizontal artifacts in the zoomed picture using Oppo 791. Now I don't see any. The difference is the Mediatek chip versus the Faroudja.
I believe the Faroudja chip, with all its complicated function which I cannot (or bother to) name, softens the picture and introduces artifacts when used in conjunction with the iSync. I am not sure what dvd player you use, but it may be worthwhile to try a different one.

Also, for those interested, my iSync definitely support 480i over HDMI both in and out.
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post #116 of 179 Old 11-30-2006, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisdxl32 View Post

Stephan, I've come to the same conclusion in putting together my HT with budget constraints. The price for the iSync Pro and a $400-$500 receiver (I need to upgrade my receiver) together still is comparable to the prices for receivers that are able to scale 480 to 720/1080. Hopefully, the picture quality is better with the iSync than with those receivers. So if you don't need to upgrade your receiver, you'll come out ahead pricewise.

Progressive scan DVD players do their own deinterlacing from 480i to 480p, but if you have a video processor, you want the VP to be doing the deinterlacing rather than the DVD player. Presumably, the more expensive VP has better algorithms or hardware for deinterlacing than the DVD player. You would need to check to see if your DVD player can bypass its deinterlacing and output a 480i signal to the VP, or get a DVD player that does so (like the Oppo 970).

The other upside to getting an outboard VP is that if you do use the iSync to switch all your video, it allows you to adjust the picture, saturation, hue, brightness, and sharpness per input allowing a good deal more control over what goes to your TV that I don't think those upscaling receivers will do. If you go with an upscaling DVD player it will only processes DVDs and not other sources so that approach is not nearly as versatile. One other consideration however, based on my comparison of component connection to iSync from standard DVD player (pioneer elite dv45a) with using a digital output from my Oppo 971, I think you would still want to get a DVD player that had an HDMI (or DVI) output (not just component) because there is a visible improvement with an all digital signal (source --> iSync --> TV) at least in my set-up. This is probably due to the need for one less digital to analog conversion. I'm also thinking that there may be some benefit in having an upscaling player which uses one algorithm (e.g. faradouja) to get DVDs to 1080i and a VP that uses a different one (Key Digital) to go from 1080i --> 1080p as evidenced by the extremely sharp AVIA sharpness test pattern I'm getting with the combination of the Oppo and the iSync in sequence. Also, and I don't know if anyone else is thinking about this, but since the iSynce does such a nice job with 1080i -->1080P there are a few bucks to be saved when buying a HD DVD or BlueRay player down the road since you will not need to buy a more expensive 1080P output unit to get best picture (i.e. 1080i output for your HD diskplayer will work fine)

Also, my iSync also supports 480i input over HDMI from my satillite box, but still for some reason not from my oppo 971. It doesn't matter however since I'm getting best picture feeding the iSync 1080i (from oppo DVD player and satillite box) and letting the iSync do 1080i --> 1080P deinterlacing.
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post #117 of 179 Old 11-30-2006, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

The other upside to getting an outboard VP is that if you do use the iSync to switch all your video, it allows you to adjust the picture, saturation, hue, brightness, and sharpness per input allowing a good deal more control over what goes to your TV that I don't think those upscaling receivers will do. If you go with an upscaling DVD player it will only processes DVDs and not other sources so that approach is not nearly as versatile. One other consideration however, based on my comparison of component connection to iSync from standard DVD player (pioneer elite dv45a) with using a digital output from my Oppo 971, I think you would still want to get a DVD player that had an HDMI (or DVI) output (not just component) because there is a visible improvement with an all digital signal (source --> iSync --> TV) at least in my set-up. This is probably due to the need for one less digital to analog conversion. I'm also thinking that there may be some benefit in having an upscaling player which uses one algorithm (e.g. faradouja) to get DVDs to 1080i and a VP that uses a different one (Key Digital) to go from 1080i --> 1080p as evidenced by the extremely sharp AVIA sharpness test pattern I'm getting with the combination of the Oppo and the iSync in sequence. Also, and I don't know if anyone else is thinking about this, but since the iSynce does such a nice job with 1080i -->1080P there are a few bucks to be saved when buying a HD DVD or BlueRay player down the road since you will not need to buy a more expensive 1080P output unit to get best picture (i.e. 1080i output for your HD diskplayer will work fine)

Also, my iSync also supports 480i input over HDMI from my satillite box, but still for some reason not from my oppo 971. It doesn't matter however since I'm getting best picture feeding the iSync 1080i (from oppo DVD player and satillite box) and letting the iSync do 1080i --> 1080P deinterlacing.


It is interesting that the Oppo971 / iSync combination did not work well for me. I was seeing a lot of horizontal artifacts in the v stretch mode, which defeats the whole purpose of buying the vp in my case. Oppo970, without the Faroudja, took the problem away. BTW, Oppo 971 doesn't output 480i over HDMI.
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post #118 of 179 Old 12-01-2006, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by schen View Post

It is interesting that the Oppo971 / iSync combination did not work well for me. I was seeing a lot of horizontal artifacts in the v stretch mode, which defeats the whole purpose of buying the vp in my case. Oppo970, without the Faroudja, took the problem away. BTW, Oppo 971 doesn't output 480i over HDMI.

I couldn't find the manual so wasn't able to check this. Thanks. I wonder why they didn't provide this output?
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post #119 of 179 Old 12-01-2006, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

I couldn't find the manual so wasn't able to check this. Thanks. I wonder why they didn't provide this output?

Most displays don't accept 480i over HDMI, so that's probably the reason.
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post #120 of 179 Old 12-01-2006, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Oppo 971 only has DVI output, not HDMI. Maybe thats why it outputs only 480p & up.

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