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Video Processors > Key Digital ISync Pro
bri1270's Avatar bri1270 09:47 AM 12-01-2006
How is the vertical stretch option with the isync? For example, stretching a 2:35:1 to fill a 16:9 screen...is there a lot of distortion, if any?

Thanks

schen's Avatar schen 07:20 PM 12-01-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1270 View Post

How is the vertical stretch option with the isync? For example, stretching a 2:35:1 to fill a 16:9 screen...is there a lot of distortion, if any?

Thanks


Very good, no distortion and no artifacts, provided that you feed it 480i over HDMI. Inputing 1080i is also fine. I still see occasional horizontal scan lines when feeding it 720p and outputing 720p over HDMI.
As far as Isync improving image quality, I don't think so, at least not to the extend that my eyes can detect. But its ability to do 480i input and output coupled with artifact-free v stretch makes worth every penny to me as my next projector would have a decent internal scaler and I plan to use and HE lense with it.
Randomcreek's Avatar Randomcreek 12:43 AM 12-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1270 View Post

How is the vertical stretch option with the isync? For example, stretching a 2:35:1 to fill a 16:9 screen...is there a lot of distortion, if any?

Thanks

Stretching a 2.35:1 DVD image to fill the screen is not something I like to do. Ii prefer to see my circles as round shapes not ovals. But as a test with the iSync in my set-up the way it is (Oppo player outputting 1080i via DVI --> iSynch --> 1080p --> Sony A2000 SXRD via HDMI) does not show scan lines artifacts. If I send 720p from Oppo --> iSync --> 1080p and stretch usind the iSynch there are scan line artifacts (??), but if I use my TV to stretch the same signal it's fine. So I agree with you the distortion you describe does exist , but it's a problem with the incoming 720p signal from the Oppo and not the iSynch- the same thing does not happen if I send the iSynch 720p from my satillite box and use the iSynch to stretch the picture.
bri1270's Avatar bri1270 03:53 AM 12-02-2006
great info. thanks guys.
nstelmach's Avatar nstelmach 02:36 PM 12-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

Stretching a 2.35:1 DVD image to fill the screen is not something I like to do. Ii prefer to see my circles as round shapes not ovals. But as a test with the iSync in my set-up the way it is (Oppo player outputting 1080i via DVI --> iSynch --> 1080p --> Sony A2000 SXRD via HDMI) does not show scan lines artifacts. If I send 720p from Oppo --> iSync --> 1080p and stretch usind the iSynch there are scan line artifacts (??), but if I use my TV to stretch the same signal it's fine. So I agree with you the distortion you describe does exist , but it's a problem with the incoming 720p signal from the Oppo and not the iSynch- the same thing does not happen if I send the iSynch 720p from my satillite box and use the iSynch to stretch the picture.

Very strange indeed, as I get the most scan lines artifacts with 1080i input. I did however discover that it's minimal if I input 1080i @ 60 Hz instead, this makes no sense to me...?
Jack Caynon's Avatar Jack Caynon 10:28 AM 12-03-2006
I just got my Isync and wondered how you folks would set it for the HC3000 front projector. The projector is 720p native and has an auto function for sync but seems to do better when I set the sync to 720p and handle auto syncing through the Isync.
Jack Caynon's Avatar Jack Caynon 10:43 AM 12-04-2006
I have the DirecTV HD receiver set on "all resolutions" and "native." However, when I change the channel to an SD channel, which should be 480i, the Isync LCD panel says the input is 480p. Is the HD Box converting it from 480i to 480p and if so, do I need to force it to go into 480i to allow the Isync to bypass the HD Box's converter?
Randomcreek's Avatar Randomcreek 03:54 PM 12-04-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Caynon View Post

I have the DirecTV HD receiver set on "all resolutions" and "native." However, when I change the channel to an SD channel, which should be 480i, the Isync LCD panel says the input is 480p. Is the HD Box converting it from 480i to 480p and if so, do I need to force it to go into 480i to allow the Isync to bypass the HD Box's converter?

It sounds like your box doesn't truely send out native resolution when set to "native". I have a dishnetwork HD Recorder and all I can do is set the HDMI output to one setting. I believe that the iSync converts every thing to 1080P , then scales it to whatever output resolution you select.

You should try each output resolution with the material you watch most on your projector and see what give the best picture. For example I found that setting my Oppo digital to output 1080i and letting the iSync do one final deinterlacing gives a better picture versus sending a lower resolution signal from the Oppo DVD player (720P over HDMI or 480i over component).
Randomcreek's Avatar Randomcreek 04:03 PM 12-04-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by nstelmach View Post

Very strange indeed, as I get the most scan lines artifacts with 1080i input. I did however discover that it's minimal if I input 1080i @ 60 Hz instead, this makes no sense to me...?

Hmmm. i use 1080i input from both my HD box and oppo DVD player and I don't get any scan lines. The AVIA test pattern for sharpness is extremely sharp. Much more so than what I get with just the oppo DVD player. I would love to see what a 1080i HD DVD signal or test pattern looks like.
Jack Caynon's Avatar Jack Caynon 09:06 PM 12-04-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

It sounds like your box doesn't truely send out native resolution when set to "native". I have a dishnetwork HD Recorder and all I can do is set the HDMI output to one setting. I believe that the iSync converts every thing to 1080P , then scales it to whatever output resolution you select.

You should try each output resolution with the material you watch most on your projector and see what give the best picture. For example I found that setting my Oppo digital to output 1080i and letting the iSync do one final deinterlacing gives a better picture versus sending a lower resolution signal from the Oppo DVD player (720P over HDMI or 480i over component).


Thanks for responding, Randomcreek. I'll do as you suggest tonight and see how it comes out. Thanks again!

Jack
wadayem's Avatar wadayem 11:54 PM 12-04-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

For example I found that setting my Oppo digital to output 1080i and letting the iSync do one final deinterlacing gives a better picture versus sending a lower resolution signal from the Oppo DVD player (720P over HDMI or 480i over component).

This means that the integrated scaler in the Oppo is better than the scaler in the iSync. This is a true dissappointment since I baught the iSync mainly for scaling 480 and 576 sources to the native resolution of my screen (720). Is it true for everybody?
Jack Caynon's Avatar Jack Caynon 12:19 AM 12-05-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadayem View Post

This means that the integrated scaler in the Oppo is better than the scaler in the iSync. This is a true dissappointment since I baught the iSync mainly for scaling 480 and 576 sources to the native resolution of my screen (720). Is it true for everybody?

Well, I guess it's true for me, too. I followed Randomcreek's advice and set my HD box to 720p. My HC3000U is 720p native. "Heroes" and "Studio 60" off of 480i NBC local channel looked great that way. Although both are 16:9, I used the Vert/Horz Zoom button to shrink the picture into a high quality SD picture. Normal 4:3 looked good as well with that Zoom button. Since I have the Panasonic S97S, I'll try it in 720p as well to see how that looks through the iSync.

Does anyone have a theory why the signal looks better going through the HD box set at 720p followed by the iSync set at 720p for a 720p native projector?
Randomcreek's Avatar Randomcreek 06:38 PM 12-05-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadayem View Post

This means that the integrated scaler in the Oppo is better than the scaler in the iSync. This is a true dissappointment since I baught the iSync mainly for scaling 480 and 576 sources to the native resolution of my screen (720). Is it true for everybody?

I don't know because the iSync needs to be inline after the DVD player so you can't test it the other way around. Honestly, I think it's more an issue of using two different algorithms in sequence with the result being a superior picture quality.

Originally, I too planned to send the native resolution of DVD (and SD TV as well) directly to the iSync with the expectation that this would yield the best result because the iSync was the better VP. However, with DVD one thing I can't do with my set up is test a digital 480i signal straight through to the iSync. My oppo DVD player doesn't output 480i over digital connection and using anything that's not digital (from oppo or pioneer elite players) I tested produced a result that was not as good as what I was getting using digital connections. Likewise, with SD TV, setting the box output to 480i (even using the HDMI output) is no betterthan sending 720P or 1080i output to iSync.

This is counter to what experts have said should be the case, but again I think it's the dual algorithm outperforming any individual algorithm on it's own which makes some sense. So long as both algorithms are decent (and one is not horrible and reducing detail) it's seems possible that a synergistic effect would result.
hasema's Avatar hasema 06:50 PM 12-05-2006
To the customers who have purchased and tested the isync. If you were to do it all over again, would you still buy it?
Randomcreek's Avatar Randomcreek 08:04 PM 12-05-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasema View Post

To the customers who have purchased and tested the isync. If you were to do it all over again, would you still buy it?

Yes indeed! I'm getting a much sharper picture on my Sony A2000 SXRD TV with SD and DVD. Motion artifacts are greatly reduced with HD as well by letting the iSync do the processing of 1080i --> 1080P rather than the TV. The one thing it doesn't have that would be nice is adjustable noise reduction. I have to use my TV's noise reduction function and it's okay, but I'm certain if I had an external processor that had this function it would perform better.
Jack Caynon's Avatar Jack Caynon 10:37 PM 12-05-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

Yes indeed! I'm getting a much sharper picture on my Sony A2000 SXRD TV with SD and DVD. Motion artifacts are greatly reduced with HD as well by letting the iSync do the processing of 1080i --> 1080P rather than the TV. The one thing it doesn't have that would be nice is adjustable noise reduction. I have to use my TV's noise reduction function and it's okay, but I'm certain if I had an external processor that had this function it would perform better.

I agree with Randomcreek. The Isync really cleaned up the SD signal so it became crystal clear on my very large projection screen. Before the Isync, SD was virtually unwatchable. Noise reduction doesn't seem to be a problem for me, so it isn't a factor. Since I paid about $900 for the unit, it was definitely worth the improvement. However, having AVSforum and members like Randomcreek definitely was icing on the cake because he helped me figure out the "native" problem with my HD box so I was able to improve the picture. Thus, having this forum in tandem with the unit made the purchase worthwhile.
pjdavep's Avatar pjdavep 06:46 AM 12-06-2006
So I started playing with my iSync last night, but didn't get too far.

I bought this cable to go RGB out of the iSync to the 15 pin port on my plasma:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/pro...les/eehd5r.asp

The red, green, and blue hookups were obvious, but since I wasn't positive which leads were the H or V sync, I guessed and tried it. The picture was very, very green, so I shut everything down and switched the H/V sync wires. The picture was then very pink. WTF? The iSync analog output was set to RGB instead of the "Y Cr Cb" (or Pr Pb) option. Despite the pinkish picture, I continued to mess with the settings. I tried the 1366x768 output, which is native resolution for my set and I got no picture with that setting.

Any ideas on what I did wrong?

Another thing I noticed is that the analog output doesn't seem to be active if there is a cable plugged into HDMI out...that's lame, though I understand why it works that way.

Later,
pjdavep
Kei Clark's Avatar Kei Clark 07:14 AM 12-06-2006
Which plasma do you have and does it have input options like some projectors to accept either component or RGB via the VGA port?

If the incoming HDMI signal is HDCP encrypted, I believe that the analog output has to be turned off.
vinodk's Avatar vinodk 08:38 AM 12-06-2006
Now with more owners for ISync Pro, maybe we should all lobby to Key Digital for 1080p input support & 1080p24 output option.
hasema's Avatar hasema 08:49 AM 12-06-2006
What about playing games. Do you forsee a problem with any lag associated with it?

I want to use this as a video hub, and then just have one wire sending all my feeds to the pj.
nstelmach's Avatar nstelmach 09:18 AM 12-06-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasema View Post

To the customers who have purchased and tested the isync. If you were to do it all over again, would you still buy it?

Sadly I would have to say, no...

I have disconnected mine mainly because it introduces some sort of interferens noise in the picture which I don't have going straight to the TV (yes, I do have mains noise filter installed). I do however suspect the unit is faulty because of these symptoms, but that said I still didn't see any noticable improvement over the TVs internal VP...
pjdavep's Avatar pjdavep 01:21 PM 12-06-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kei Clark View Post

Which plasma do you have and does it have input options like some projectors to accept either component or RGB via the VGA port?

If the incoming HDMI signal is HDCP encrypted, I believe that the analog output has to be turned off.

Kei,

I have the Vizio P50HD and there is no optional input setting for the 15 pin port that I know of. This evening, I will be testing out component output of the iSync, along with the 15 pin input of my plasma using a laptop/VGA cable to try and determine the problem.

The HDMI input during my testing last night was a DirecTV HDR10-250...not sure about the show.

Later,
pjdavep
pjdavep's Avatar pjdavep 04:45 PM 12-06-2006
I am not able to test my 15 pin RGB input tonight, but I can confirm that my iSync unit does work properly using analog component output when configured in the iSync menu. So it's either my cable, the RGB mode of the iSync, or the RGB input of my plasma.

I proceeded to hook stuff up via the HDMI output and tweak with the settings. It seems that the horizontal/vertical "input position" causes quite a bit of distortion on the HDNet test patterns (visible jagged breaks in the middle circle), but the h/v size/position settings did allow me to account for my plasma's vertical stretch problem at higher resolutions. So far this is the only advantage for me until I get the RGB thing figured out. I did manage to get the iSync to 'freak out' and show a picture 5 times the normal size after I messed with all the horizontal/vertical picture adjustments for several minutes. One or two values were down to "-6 to -8" and once I went further the picture flashed a couple times and was then half chopped off and huge. I guess it could have been an HDMI handshake issue, but a reboot of the iSync fixed the issue.

Later,
pjdavep
ebr's Avatar ebr 09:17 AM 12-07-2006
Has anyone tried this processor on the output of an HD-A1 for HD-DVDs? I'm looking at maybe getting one of these to use solely to provide the vertical stretch necessary for a CIH 2.35 setup. I'm pretty sure I'm going to use my new HTPC setup for std DVDs (so it can do the stretch) so I would only need this unit for HD-DVDs.
asaturno's Avatar asaturno 09:55 AM 12-10-2006
I just received the Westinghouse LVM-37w3. I was thinking about getting this VP to get better SD and HD from the Westy's Genesis chipset. Would this do the trick for me? Any still available at the special price?

Thanks.
Randomcreek's Avatar Randomcreek 11:15 AM 12-10-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by asaturno View Post

I just received the Westinghouse LVM-37w3. I was thinking about getting this VP to get better SD and HD from the Westy's Genesis chipset. Would this do the trick for me? Any still available at the special price?

Thanks.

Could be. You need to follow the link posted by Alan for the power buy to see. You should see how good the processing is in your TV is first. If you determine it is lacking in a way the iSync might help, then go for it. I think the price is nice for the v.processing power you get. It worked for my application (see above). Some other folks had varying opinions. Read the thread and decide for yourself. you won't find any more relevant information on this processor anywhere if it's not mentioned here. If you find anything else in your research, please post it here.

As far as the Westy's Genesis chipset goes, it may be good enough since it processes all the way through to the set's native resolution and in order to use the iSync you would essentially be by-passing the Genesis chipset. So instead of what I'm doing (i.e. running Genesis/fardouja chipset up to 1080i in my DVD player and using iSync to do final 1080i-1080P delinterlacing) you will be using either one or the other from original resolution to final output. You won't get any synergistic effect of using both chipsets in series. This results in a very sharp picture for me , but your application is different.
Jack Caynon's Avatar Jack Caynon 06:33 PM 12-10-2006
Next week, I'm getting mine done and I wonder if there were any tricks or tips I should relay to the calibrator about the Isync...
Kei Clark's Avatar Kei Clark 06:39 PM 12-10-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Caynon View Post

Next week, I'm getting mine done and I wonder if there were any tricks or tips I should relay to the calibrator about the Isync...

You can mention the built-in test patterns.
scooby's Avatar scooby 07:04 PM 12-10-2006
Digital connection's website shows 38 in-stock at the $1499 price. I plan on calling tomorrow to see if they will honor the AVS price. Leaning towards this as my first VP. Mostly just need 720p to 1080i scaling. My mits only has component in and only supports 480i/480p/1080i.

People keep saying Lumagen, Lumagen, Lumagen but i'm thinking I should start small. Digital Connection's also has B-Stock HD Leeza's but I cant find if that does 1080i output anywhere and whats better about it.

*shrug*
Scooby
Jack Caynon's Avatar Jack Caynon 07:50 PM 12-10-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kei Clark View Post

You can mention the built-in test patterns.

Thanks for the tip, Kei!
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