Key Digital ISync Pro - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 179 Old 12-11-2006, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby View Post

Mostly just need 720p to 1080i scaling. My mits only has component in and only supports 480i/480p/1080i.

I have a Mits CRT rear projection TV (WS-55413) and I've had two iSync units exhibit the same problem when outputting component 1080i to the Mits (and a Sony front projector).

On bright images (HDTV or DVD letterboxed 480i/p), the Mits loses sync and the image rolls up for a moment such that the image is split (upper portion of image on bottom of screen) - or the upper 1/12th portion of the image becomes horizontally skewed and unstable. This has never occured without the iSync.

If you follow through with your purchase, please let us know what configuration and results you have. I am trying to isolate the problem with the help of Key Digital tech support.
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post #152 of 179 Old 12-11-2006, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith AP View Post

I have a Mits CRT rear projection TV (WS-55413) and I've had two iSync units exhibit the same problem when outputting component 1080i to the Mits (and a Sony front projector).

On bright images (HDTV or DVD letterboxed 480i/p), the Mits loses sync and the image rolls up for a moment such that the image is split (upper portion of image on bottom of screen) - or the upper 1/12th portion of the image becomes horizontally skewed and unstable. This has never occured without the iSync.

If you follow through with your purchase, please let us know what configuration and results you have. I am trying to isolate the problem with the help of Key Digital tech support.

Thanks for the info. I have a Mits WS-55511 so I will probably hold off on this unit. More research to do I guess unless you make some headway with Key Digital.
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post #153 of 179 Old 12-13-2006, 01:57 PM
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The iSync Pro has a firmware bug in the RGBHV output. It's capable of sending the signal, however, it's so dim that the picture is hardly recognizable. This does not happen with the HDMI or Component outputs. Keydigital knows about the problem and can reproduce it. However, they are dragging their feet on fixing the problem. I sold one into an installation almost 8 months ago and they still have yet to resolve the problem. I've since used a DVDO VP50 in it's place and have had no problems at all.

Another thing to keep in mind is the iSync has some quirkiness in it's RS232 commands. You must place a delay between each character being sent to the processor. This makes the switching VIA RS-232 very slow and makes the picture jump all over. It's not a very seamless integration with a control system.
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post #154 of 179 Old 12-13-2006, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernlegends View Post

The iSync Pro has a firmware bug in the RGBHV output. It's capable of sending the signal, however, it's so dim that the picture is hardly recognizable. This does not happen with the HDMI or Component outputs. Keydigital knows about the problem and can reproduce it. However, they are dragging their feet on fixing the problem. I sold one into an installation almost 8 months ago and they still have yet to resolve the problem. I've since used a DVDO VP50 in it's place and have had no problems at all.

Another thing to keep in mind is the iSync has some quirkiness in it's RS232 commands. You must place a delay between each character being sent to the processor. This makes the switching VIA RS-232 very slow and makes the picture jump all over. It's not a very seamless integration with a control system.

How much of a delay do you have to put in between characters? Kind of defeats one of the advantages serial has over IR if it is slower than IR!

thanks,
Murray
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post #155 of 179 Old 12-13-2006, 05:16 PM
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The IR receiver in the Isync seems to have trouble picking up the remote from 12 feet away in my HT. The unit is in a cabinet that is below the projection screen mounted on the front wall and the door is preforated to allow IR signals to get through. What sort of inexpensive IR repeater/extender would you recommend to plug into the back of the Isync unit to mount on the outside of the cabinet?
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post #156 of 179 Old 12-14-2006, 05:30 AM
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I finally got around to hooking up my wife's laptop to my plasma via the RGB port and the image looked fantastic.

So, as "modernlegends" posted two posts prior, the RGBHV output is not working properly on the iSync. My plan was to go 1366x768 out the RGBHV since that was my plasma's native resolution, but that plan is pretty much shot. Even if the RGBHV was working, it won't output when the HDMI out is plugged in and won't output when the source has the HDCP flag. I'll be calling Digital Connection later today attempting to get a refund (without the 15% restocking fee).

I may eventually try a VP30 when I get some extra cash flow, but for now it's straight to the plasma.

Later,
pjdavep
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post #157 of 179 Old 12-14-2006, 09:49 AM
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so for the remedially dense among us..

this issue about the RGBHV connection not functioning properly only relates to those who intend on hooking up their computers to this processor?

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #158 of 179 Old 12-14-2006, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

so for the remedially dense among us..

this issue about the RGBHV connection not functioning properly only relates to those who intend on hooking up their computers to this processor?

No, most projectors and plasma displays have a 15 pin RGB input and that's what I had planned on using. I assume most people would be using the HDMI output of the iSync instead of the analog RGB output. If the iSync had an RGBHV input, then that would allow you to hook your computer to it (if you didn't have an HDMI or component output on your video card).

Later,
pjdavep
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post #159 of 179 Old 12-14-2006, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjdavep View Post

So, as "modernlegends" posted two posts prior, the RGBHV output is not working properly on the iSync. My plan was to go 1366x768 out the RGBHV since that was my plasma's native resolution, but that plan is pretty much shot. Even if the RGBHV was working, it won't output when the HDMI out is plugged in and won't output when the source has the HDCP flag. I'll be calling Digital Connection later today attempting to get a refund (without the 15% restocking fee).
pjdavep

pjdavep,

Did you actually try the RGBHV output? I'm not sure what type of display modernlegends is using, there are older CRT display that have sync (neg/pos) issues and he did not mention what he was using. I was able to connect a cable to a VGA monitor and it works as expected. There is a slight difference in the brightness of the image, I can't do an accurate comparison because my HDMI display (Sharp 37D90U) has higher contrast ratio/brightness than my Sony PC monitor (both 1080p capable). I spoke with KD and they are aware of the slight differnce in the output level and will be correcting it in their next firmware update.

As for the analog output of HDMI/HDCP sources, that is a licensing issue for any HDMI product and should be expected no matter what product you purchase.


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post #160 of 179 Old 12-14-2006, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kei Clark View Post

pjdavep,

Did you actually try the RGBHV output? ....

Yes, I have spent several hours setting up and configuring the device -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9089962

Later,
pjdavep
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post #161 of 179 Old 12-16-2006, 05:50 PM
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I just got my ISync, and need some help getting it to work correctly.

I've got each of my Tivo Sat. boxes hooked up to S-Video 1 and 2. When I try to switch from one to the other, the picture sometimes gets all scrambled, full of jagged diagonal lines. If I power cycle it, it comes back normal. It will also come back if I switch inputs, and then go back to the one, that was messed up.

The other problem I have is with the component inputs on the ISync. I've got a DVD player hooked up (Philips DVP642), connected up to the component input. When I switch to that input it says there is no input signal. I've tried it on all of the component inputs and I'm getting the same result. I know the DVD player is working because if I put it directly into my TV, it works fine.

Here is the setup that I currently have:
TV: Vizio P50HDTV10A
Tivo 1: Philips DSR6000
Tivo 2: DirecTV R-10
DVD: Philips DVP642

The ISync is hooked up to the TV via the HDMI input.

Can anybody make any suggestions.


thanks
-Jeff
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post #162 of 179 Old 12-21-2006, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayW View Post

How much of a delay do you have to put in between characters? Kind of defeats one of the advantages serial has over IR if it is slower than IR!

thanks,
Murray


The delay is significant. I believe I have a 250ms delay between each character. The transition was slow and choppy. There were times it would respond to the command at all.

To respond to which display I was utilizing, was two actually. A 61" NEC Plasma connected VIA HDMI and a Ampro 8" CRT Front Projector. The NEC VIA HDMI performed okay. However, the CRT Projector connected VIA the RGBHV was horrific. At least for both my and my clients taste. Critical viewing using the RGBHV output was non-existent.

Keydigital said it was going to fix this issue on the next firmware release. However, they have known about the problem for about 8 months now without a resolution.

The front panel IR also has an distance limitation. You have to be within several feet for the unit to respond to any IR commands reliably.

Hope that helps!

M-
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post #163 of 179 Old 12-22-2006, 10:03 AM
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modernlegends

Could you elaborate on the RBGHV problem. I was going to buy one of these and use it on a Ampro 3600.

Thanks
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post #164 of 179 Old 12-22-2006, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVDG View Post

modernlegends

Could you elaborate on the RBGHV problem. I was going to buy one of these and use it on a Ampro 3600.

Thanks

The problem I encountered was utilizing the RGBHV output on the Isync, the picture quality, color, brightness was significantly reduced. I tested the RGBHV output on a Sony Plasma that had an RGBHV (VGA) input that I used a breakout cable on. It had a similar effect on this display unit. If I switched and used the component output things cleared up nicely. The picture was much brighter. This was only amplified when connected to the Ampro CRT projector (8" CRT's) utilizing the RGBHV output. I'm not exactly sure what the problem is with the Isync, I called and walked KD tech support through, step by step and they were able to reproduce the problem immediately. It has sat in their engineering department ever since.

I replaced the Isync with a DVDO VP50 and I'm much happier with it's performance. I definitely feel it is worth the additional cost. It cleaned up the picture and integrated nicely into the control system. The video switching is much smoother and doesn't have any of the weird "pink screen" syncing issues.

If you can afford it, go with a Faroudja.

M-
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post #165 of 179 Old 12-23-2006, 01:48 PM
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I would like to advise any international members NOT to purchase any Key Digital products!!!
I took advantage of the powerbuy but had some major issues with the Isync Pro, so I emailed their tech support. I received a couple of nice emails from Doug Molloy but in my third email it was revealed that I were a European customer and I never again received any replies from him.
So instead I turned to their Customer support but after sending two emails to them (with no replies) I got mail delivery notifications telling me my mails had been blocked by the receiver...
Let me just stress that my emails were written in a nice and polite manor and I was just asking questions to determine whether or not my unit was faulty nothing else...

So I guess this is the kind of service one should expect when buying a "cheap" VP....:-(

I wish I had saved the money for a VP50 instead...
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post #166 of 179 Old 12-26-2006, 01:57 PM
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I'm new to most of this but from what I've read, this unit (if still available) may be just what I need. I have a Mits HD1000 projector (720p) with HDMI in & need a switcher so I can run my sons XBox 360, my Comcast HDDVR & my future HDDVD into the switcher & have 1 HDMI out to the PJ. I had considered a new receiver (I have an old Denon AVR-3200) but it looks like it passes video thru but doesn't enhance it. Does this unit actually take a standard (non-HD) signal from Comcast & make it look better ?? I need something to improve non-HD pictures ...without paying the $ 2000 + for some of the nicer processors. Help please.
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post #167 of 179 Old 12-26-2006, 03:54 PM
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Now that the new Oppo 981 is out i was wondering if anyone had tried to compare the oppo's upscaleing 1080P output to having the oppo output 480i to the ISync and having the ISync upconvert to 1080P. No use spending $250 on an upconverting DVD player when i can get a cheap one and have the ISync do the upconverting for my DVD's and my cable as an added bonus.
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post #168 of 179 Old 01-21-2007, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Caynon View Post

The IR receiver in the Isync seems to have trouble picking up the remote from 12 feet away in my HT. The unit is in a cabinet that is below the projection screen mounted on the front wall and the door is preforated to allow IR signals to get through. What sort of inexpensive IR repeater/extender would you recommend to plug into the back of the Isync unit to mount on the outside of the cabinet?

Yes... I'm having this same problem! The unit does everything I need, but its use as an HT switcher is questionable if I have to get up each time I want to change inputs!

Anyone?
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post #169 of 179 Old 01-21-2007, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nstelmach View Post

I would like to advise any international members NOT to purchase any Key Digital products!!!
I took advantage of the powerbuy but had some major issues with the Isync Pro, so I emailed their tech support. I received a couple of nice emails from Doug Molloy but in my third email it was revealed that I were a European customer and I never again received any replies from him.
So instead I turned to their Customer support but after sending two emails to them (with no replies) I got mail delivery notifications telling me my mails had been blocked by the receiver...
Let me just stress that my emails were written in a nice and polite manor and I was just asking questions to determine whether or not my unit was faulty nothing else...

So I guess this is the kind of service one should expect when buying a "cheap" VP....:-(

I wish I had saved the money for a VP50 instead...

Did you talk to our tech support about returning the unit back?

I can't imagine KD going through the trouble of blocking your e-mail. Can't help with the problems you're experiencing as I'm not familiar with nor do I have a way to test for European HD and other sources for PAL, but we can certainly arrange for a return.


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post #170 of 179 Old 01-22-2007, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernlegends View Post

The front panel IR also has an distance limitation. You have to be within several feet for the unit to respond to any IR commands reliably.

For those frustrated with IR response, the latest R. Shack extender works fine. It also comes with a plug-in repeater (even though it's not advertised), so you can hide the receiving unit behind your gear.

(That way no one needs to know you're using a store-brand unit to add functionality to your $1000+ video processor!)
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post #171 of 179 Old 01-24-2007, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

For those frustrated with IR response, the latest R. Shack extender works fine. It also comes with a plug-in repeater (even though it's not advertised), so you can hide the receiving unit behind your gear.

(That way no one needs to know you're using a store-brand unit to add functionality to your $1000+ video processor!)


I am surprised that only a couple of people have commented on the lack of response using the remote. When I received mine (back in November I think) I got so frustrated just trying to set it up that I gave up and I have not gotten back to it. I could not get it to respond reliably sitting 2 or 3 feet from it. It's been awhile, but I think the response was slow and inconsistent even using the buttons on the front of the unit.
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post #172 of 179 Old 01-24-2007, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brez View Post

I am surprised that only a couple of people have commented on the lack of response using the remote. When I received mine (back in November I think) I got so frustrated just trying to set it up that I gave up and I have not gotten back to it. I could not get it to respond reliably sitting 2 or 3 feet from it. It's been awhile, but I think the response was slow and inconsistent even using the buttons on the front of the unit.

I was surprised as well. I mean, the engineers gave the unit discrete switching, so they must have been aware that people's intent would be to set it up with remote macros, etc.

It actually seems that the IR problem is not related to sensitivity, but rather directionality. That is, I'll get no response from 2-3 feet at an angle, but I'm ok from 8 ft straight on.

Anyway, a repeater/extender is the way to go.
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post #173 of 179 Old 01-28-2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kei Clark View Post

Did you talk to our tech support about returning the unit back?

I can't imagine KD going through the trouble of blocking your e-mail. Can't help with the problems you're experiencing as I'm not familiar with nor do I have a way to test for European HD and other sources for PAL, but we can certainly arrange for a return.

Hey Kei,


No, I didn't contact your customer support. First of all because I was merely trying to address some technical issues and I thougth the best approch was to contact KD directly. As mentioned I got a couple of nice emails from their tech guy, so I compiled a Word doc with hi-res examples and email it to him. After that I never received any response from anybody at KD.
The second reason I didn't contact your customer service was the fact that you went the extra mile delivering this VP to me under special circumstances, and I would have looked rather ungratefull if I demanded a refund.
Third and last reason was that I'd already paid tax for the item and I would only have been in title to a partial refund since the VP have been in use and I I'd also have to pay shipping again, so I did'nt figure it would make sense money-wise...

If you think something could be done to help my situation please let me know and I will email your CS.
Btw. I hope my advise against KDs products did not come off as any advise against your own service (Digital Connection). I can only speak higly about the level of service I've received from Digital Connection.

Regards
Nicky
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post #174 of 179 Old 12-13-2012, 07:24 AM
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Holy ancient thread Batman!

Anyways, I'm considering one of these units, but mainly to fix overscan on my HD CRT that cannot be corrected in the set. I see that this unit has custom position and size adjustments, which is just what I need. The thing I'm unsure about, what kind of delay does this introduce to the signal? I plan on hooking up a SNES and N64 through it. I know that most people here are using it in expensive theater setups, but this is just for an older small HD CRT.

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post #175 of 179 Old 12-14-2012, 04:57 PM
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I'd tell you but mine is not hooked up anymore. I do recall that screen sizing was one of it's better features.


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post #176 of 179 Old 12-27-2012, 06:48 PM
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I just got mine today and have had a few issues.

1. When outputting 1080i to my HD CRT, there are these little bits of interference. You can see the specs in the blue below the Viper logo, there are horizontal noise starting at those specs going to the right of the image, and the screen looses sync every few seconds. Without the VPHD2 in the chain, the picture is crystal clear. Here's a video:

I tested this with 3 LCDs here, 2 were fine, but one (Samsung LN-46A650) had the same issues when set to 1080i or 1080p. At 720p, the samsung didn't show the noise.

2. It doesn't seem to sync well to a 480i signal. I could only get output at 480p; 1080i with the VCR worked when playing a tape, but the menus on a blue screen caused it to loose sync. With my SNES and N64, I could only get it to sync when set to progressive resolutions, ie, 480p, 720p, and 1080p. When the output was set to 480i or 1080i, the picture lost sync.

Issue 1 is a deal killer, and issue 2 not so much, as I can connect the VCR and consoles directly, and they'll look ok (since the TV can sync to 480i natively, and they are not that good of sources to begin with).

I emailed Key Digital and the first suggestion was it could be a handshake issue, so I tried the handshake/EDID reload code (7816), and that didn't help.

The unit has firmware 2.11, and I see that 2.18 is out. I couldn't find what was fixed in the newer release, and I don't have an RS232 cable handy to try it out.

Edit: I'm also a bit confused as to what the difference between Horizontal/Vertical Position and Horizontal/Vertical Offset. They both seem to shift the picture; so what would the difference be?

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post #177 of 179 Old 01-02-2013, 09:07 PM
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Tonight, I updated to 2.18. It didn't resolve any of my issues. I've since determined a few more things.

1. The SNES, N64, and VCR menus are output at 240p (the VCR at 240p was kinda a shock), but the VPHD2 doesn't handle it properly for interlaced output.
Here's the VCRs menu:

2. VCR playing a video seems to output 480i, but the VPHD2 doesn't seem to lock on properly and there is distorted color:

I piped the composite through my Onkyo HT-R640 receiver, and the component into the VPHD2, and the VCR seemed to work just fine then. The 480i component conversion by the Onkyo put the signal such the VPHD2 could handle it.

3. To test 480i, I connected a DVD player via S-Video and my Dish Joey via composite, and both worked flawlessly (not that'd I'd use either like this). So proper 480i seems to work just fine.

4. The update didn't fix the digital noise issue when the VPHD2 was connected to my HDFury2. I tested again on my 1080p Samsung LCD and didn't see the noise. I have to assume it's a timing compatibility issue with the HDFury2.

5. The VPHD2 doesn't seem to handle a handshake when a receiver sits between it and the TV. In both cases (VPHD2 -> Onkyo HT-R640 -> HDFury2 and VPHD2 -> Onkyo TX-SR607 -> Samsung LN46A650), I either get just a black screen or a flickering black/green screen.


Thoughts:
* 1 doesn't really surprise me since it seems 240p devices cause issues with several other video processors.
* 2 is kinda surprising since I would have figured a VCR would have been a proper 480i source. It is a later model Funai made VCR. I guess to properly test, I should pull out an old Philco I've got.
* 3 is good so I know the VPHD2 is probably working how it was designed.
* 4 is a bit unfortunate as having this working would simplify my setup greatly. As it stands, I can route the HDMI from the Blu-Ray and Joey to the receiver first, then use the HDFury there, and just use component out of the VPHD2
* 5 would also help simplify my setup, and it's unfortunate it doesn't seem to handshake well. I guess I was hoping the 2.18 update would have helped with handshake issues.

Overall, for my total cost of ~$56 (for a device that retailed for ~$1750 new), I guess I can't be too upset. I think ultimately, I'd like to get my hands on a DVDO VP50, but at current prices, I can't justify it.

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post #178 of 179 Old 01-04-2013, 08:27 AM
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So, I've run into the issue noted earlier in the thread about the horrible off axis IR performance. I'm going to be using this with my harmony remote, and it has to be easy to use for the wife. I have a funny feeling that it'll not change input like it should. I've found a cheap IR repeater from monoprice that I may get if it is a real problem. I just don't understand a problem like this. The unit was originally very expensive and they couldn't put a decent IR capture lens on the damn thing.

Out of curiosiity, I pulled the top off, and all the silicon chips had the top layer scratched off. WTF?

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post #179 of 179 Old 01-04-2013, 06:13 PM
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So, at this point, I think I'm talking to myself. Anyways, I've tested out a few more things.

For the weak IR receiver, I think I may have found a quick and cheap solution. The unit has a rear IR receiver; I just stuck a piece of aluminum foil back there, and it seemed to reflect the signal just fine. I think I may try to get a little cosmetic mirror for a more permanent solution.

For 240p via N64, it seems to work at 720p/1080p. It's like the chip detects it and properly scales it, just that the chip responsible for re-interlacing it (for 480i/1080i) doesn't seem to handle it. Via my very scientific method (triple jumping in Mario 64), it didn't seem like the VPHD2 introduced much if any lag. On my Samsung LN46A650, S-Video direct to the TV causes a checker-board effect and looks horrible. S-Video to the VPHD to the TV looked much better. However, it doesn't look as good on any of these sets as it does on my 19" CRT.

Interestingly, the VCR still had the color and sync issues even when the output was set to a progressive resolution. I'm still going to try to find another VCR to test with.

1080p on my Samsung had the same interference as 1080i on the HD CRT via HDFury2, but not via 1080p to my newer Samsung 32". I'm beginning to think this just has some compatibility problems with older HDMI chips.

After doing a bit more research, HDMI handshake issues are no stranger to Onkyo receivers, especially receivers of the same vintage as what I've got. I'd sure like to test through another manufacturers receiver.

After all this, I may finally be able to evaluate actual video performance of this.

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