Pictures of Wii or PS2 upscaled with Crystalio II? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 12-30-2006, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I use a lot of game consoles (Wii, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox 1), and I'm wondering if the Crystalio II will remove the jaggies of 480i games on my 1080p projector. Can somebody post a picture of an SD game console game upscaled to 1080p with the Crystalio II?
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post #2 of 15 Old 12-31-2006, 02:40 AM
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it can definitely improve things, but keep in mind that games are not prime candidates for video processors because of the video lag that can reduce your manuverability.

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
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post #3 of 15 Old 12-31-2006, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor View Post

it can definitely improve things

How much? Can you post a picture?

Quote:


but keep in mind that games are not prime candidates for video processors because of the video lag that can reduce your manuverability.

How big is this lag in ms?
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-31-2006, 09:17 PM
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I'm running an XBOX360 and a Wii through the CII's component inputs. The XBOX360 is set at 1080i and the Wii is 480p. Both output at 1080p60 from the CII into my HP MD6580N DLP

I think the picture produced by the CII for the XBOX360 is excellent...especially for the new Star Trek game and Oblivion. The Wii is another matter. The old adage in software programming that "garbage in = garbage out." is certainly true. Don't get me wrong about the fun aspects of the Wii-- I love playing Zelda:Twilight Princess on it. But at 65" my screen shows all the artifacts that 480P is going to produce. Its night and day from the XBOX360.

So-- don't plan on the CII being able to work a miracle on the Wii's image. I just accept the lower quality image and focus on the game. For platforms like the XBOX360, the image can be stunning.

(Personally I have to agree with all the folks now shunning the PS3 and going with the Wii--> fun is alot better than just flashy graphics!)
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-31-2006, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post

I love playing Zelda:Twilight Princess on it. But at 65" my screen shows all the artifacts that 480P is going to produce. Its night and day from the XBOX360.

So-- don't plan on the CII being able to work a miracle on the Wii's image.

I'm not expecting miracles, but I'm expecting a product to work like advertised.

And on the Crystalio II web site they show this kind of improvement on jagged lines:

http://www.crystalio.com/features.html

Without the Crystalio II:



With the Crystalio II:



Now with my Mitsubishi HC5000 I see the kind of jagged lines showed in the first pic when using my Wii or my PS2 (playing Zelda TP and FF12 for example... two of the best games this year).

So I'm asking again: how big will be the improvement? It will be as big as in the pictures above? A pictures of the screen will be great. Thanks.
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post #6 of 15 Old 01-01-2007, 05:38 AM
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The improvement show in the pictures above is about diagonal edge processing when deinterlacing.
Crystalio II wouldn't be deinterlacing Wii content as it is already progressive (480p), so all it will do is scale I think.
Jaggies are present in the source - it's not a processing error on the part of your projector, so I don't think Crystalio will help hugely with this particular artifact.

I'm playing Zelda on C2 at the moment and I consider the image very watchable, but it still has soft textures and it still has jaggies on edges.
I'll try and post screenshots later, when I fire it all up. I've never taken screenshots before though so don't expect miracles, - is there a particular reference image you want me to take?
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post #7 of 15 Old 01-01-2007, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingtimes View Post

I've never taken screenshots before though so don't expect miracles, - is there a particular reference image you want me to take?

Any good in-game (not cutscene) Link picture (not the transformed one) will be ok, thanks.

P.S.
Is it true that C2 got two options for upscaling? DCDi Faroudja or VXP Gennum? If that is the case, can you take the picture of both?
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post #8 of 15 Old 01-03-2007, 04:15 AM
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I tried to take some shots, but they're coming out absolutely terrible. Maybe the infra red sensor bar is throwing the camera off or something.
Anyway - basically I still get the jaggies from the source. If you start a new game and skip through the text, Link walks across the swing bridge with a cart. The ropes on the bridge were a shimmering mess of jaggies.

This is the same whether the Wii output is 480i, 576i, or 480p.

I don't think there's anything that any VP could do without disregarding the source and my assumption is that if any attempt to smooth these jagged lines was performed it would introduce lots of other artifacts (basically blurring of detail).
I'll try and take some more maybe with the IR sensor switched off, but my son has hijacked it!
The only thing which would fix this particular problem would be full screen anti-aliasing done within the console - I have to admit, I thought Nintendo would do a better job with this on Zelda. Wii sports looks much better.
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post #9 of 15 Old 01-03-2007, 04:18 AM
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BTW - I don't notice LAG on Crystalio II when feeding progressive signals but I haven't done much testing with interlaced games.
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post #10 of 15 Old 01-03-2007, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, so the Crystalio II is useless for SD games in your opinion. Ok, you saved me a lot of money.
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-03-2007, 10:40 AM
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Well Wii is ED (enhanced definition) and is natively progressive so that takes away a lot of the benefit.
Also - even though Crystalio scaling is better than any displays I've seen, in this instance it's not the most noticeable thing. I.e. The lack of antialiasing from the Wii stands out as being the most annoying artifact.
Hope that makes sense - I don't think "useless" is the right word
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-03-2007, 04:04 PM
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This is a pic I did (for another purpose) comparing cables on Zelda TP on a 768p plasma via a vp50. I expect the C2 would be similar for this purpose.

Please ignore the moire/fringing, seems to be an artefact of the camera lens when snapping the plasma. You can still see it's got pretty chunky jaggies and soft textures (although it's no N64 ) and the game itself looks stunning at times, the lighting is inspired.

http://www.choddo.co.uk/images/zelda_ingame1.png
http://www.choddo.co.uk/images/zelda_ingame2.png

Looking back at it, the second one is pretty hard to see, the fringing is so bad. I need a new camera
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-07-2007, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choddo2006 View Post

This is a pic I did (for another purpose) comparing cables on Zelda TP on a 768p plasma via a vp50. I expect the C2 would be similar for this purpose.

Thank you, but on a plasma the images get natural antialiasing like CRTs.

I need pictures of upscaling on LCDs or Projectors.
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-07-2007, 05:58 AM
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Yes, I suppose in a way they do thanks to the phospor glow. Having said that, you can still very easily see the jaggies from a 480p source so I don't think you'll get a good result until Nintendo admit people have HD displays
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-09-2007, 09:06 AM
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If you want high resolution, get a PS3. There are plenty of boring games for you to play on it with great graphics. ( :
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