Denon Video Processor - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 953 Old 09-20-2010, 08:10 PM
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Anyone have an opinion on how the internal VP on the 4311ci would compare against the Denon 602ci VP?

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post #632 of 953 Old 09-20-2010, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

What output resolution are you running from the 970? If you are less then 720p you can not pass multi-channel audio at 96kHz over HDMI. There isn't enough bandwidth.

Shawn

1080i, but thanks for the suggestion. This combo also has issues when run through the EDGE. DVDO is stumped. Oppo is stumped. I'm sure Denon couldn't care at this point.

Was going to spring for an Oppo BDP-80 to replace the 970HD, but alas, it is now discontinued. I own four scalers. I'm not about to buy an '83 with a VRS chip built-in at additional cost...
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post #633 of 953 Old 09-20-2010, 10:14 PM
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HDgaming, you can still get oppo-80. Are you in canada?

Or are you not interested because its discontinued?

I just ordered a region free one already moded from a webiste.
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post #634 of 953 Old 09-20-2010, 10:19 PM
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Maybe ill just get the monoprice dvi detective then.

Few questions about using dvi on an hdmi run.

1.Does dvi pass ycbcr? All my sources output this. I thought dvi only does rgb. Will the conversion introduce errors? And does it convert levels to 0-255?

2.If it does can this thing correct that as well?
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post #635 of 953 Old 09-21-2010, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reel_fan View Post

Anyone have an opinion on how the internal VP on the 4311ci would compare against the Denon 602ci VP?

They both have the same feature set, just one has the ABT and the other Realta. I doubt there is much difference in picture quality.
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post #636 of 953 Old 09-21-2010, 10:23 PM
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post #637 of 953 Old 09-21-2010, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

HDgaming, you can still get oppo-80. Are you in canada?

Or are you not interested because its discontinued?

I just ordered a region free one already moded from a webiste.

I just ordered a pre-modded one yesterday also. I'm getting mine from 220-electronics.com for only about $50 more than a un-modded BDP-80. And I already got the Fed-ex info that it will arrive today (09-22-10)
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post #638 of 953 Old 09-22-2010, 06:25 AM
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Me as well, although i did not get fed ex info quite yet.
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post #639 of 953 Old 09-22-2010, 06:27 PM
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Everyone's buying of the Gefen HDMI Detective must have triggered a price change at Amazon. It is down to $95.85 now.

http://www.amazon.com/Gefen-EXT-HDMI...5205120&sr=8-1
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post #640 of 953 Old 09-22-2010, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

Me as well, although i did not get fed ex info quite yet.


Well, I got mine today, only one day after placing the order for it. I got some rather quick service for sure. But then again, I also live only about a hour away from their B&M store. So I would expect that my fast delivery time would probably be more the exception than the rule, when compared for most people who don't live anywhere near that close to their actual store. I'm sure some people may ask, why even have them ship it instead of just driving there to pick it up, if you are only a hour away from them to pick it up right away. My answer to that is, why even drive a hour away and then a hour back home, when they ship it to you for free? Saves me gas, and also gets me out having to do two hours of driving time and dealing with traffic. I would have to drive near Chicago's O'Hare airport to reach their B&M store, and traffic can be a real eye opener in that area at times.
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post #641 of 953 Old 09-23-2010, 06:14 AM
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I placed the gefen in my shopping card but held off on it, now this morning its back up to 109. Knowing gefen it will be 200 this afternoon.
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post #642 of 953 Old 09-23-2010, 03:09 PM
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Mine arrived today. Have not really had much time to test it out, but so far I really like it, besides the audio output to my receiver issue. The enhancer is very nice for hdtv, i like it better then the flea for enhancement, just need to make sure there is no ringing.

I dont really like the dnr, i find it smooths the image out to much, but some will like it. Its not bad.

I kind of wish i had an edge to compare it to, but so far i must say im very happy. I need to get a real hdtv provider to test it out since bell converts everything to 720p grrr! My other option is shaw direct they just released a new pvr there old one was broken and i guess a nightmare. New one same thing so far so hopefully they fix it so i can switch to real 1080i content.

Anyway I will try some 1080i blue ray tonight.
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post #643 of 953 Old 09-23-2010, 04:42 PM
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Murilo

I know what you mean. At first it seems too smooth, Give it time, it is actually also very sharp and detailed. You may just be missing noise it takes out. No joke. I have an Edge and use it next to my Denon AVP with the same Realta T2 chip as the 602 and I go back and forth every month or two, but I have finally settled on the Denon. The picture is more real and film-like if not life-like. It takes some getting used to but like Jabba you will grow to love it.

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post #644 of 953 Old 09-23-2010, 08:02 PM
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Well i dont know why but the denon seems to be making my hdtv look better all im doing is scaling 720p to 1080p, should be pretty standard, i turned off and on ip scaler and it does look better, again not sure why but I will take it.

One annoying odd problem I have my pc running to it as well. Whenver i switch inputs my pc cuts out for a second, even if im not on the pc input. Seems a little odd, my monoprice hdmi switch did not cut the screen out when i switched inputs unless i was switching from my pc, or to my pc. Switching from ps3 to xbox the pc cuts out as well. I have it running in clone mode. The monoprice did not do this however.

One other thing is i cannot get 1080p with my plasma connected. Will only go to 1080i, when I disconnect the plasma i get 1080p. Again monoprice switch displayed 1080p.

So i am thinking the gefen will fix all this, then i noticed my ps3 is passing multi channel pcm even with the plasma connected. DOnt know why but when I used a matrix switch this also happened, only my ps3 was basically able to force multichannel somehow.

If my oppo does as well i wouldnt need the gefen, but now i have the problem of only getting 1080i unless i unplug my plasma.
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post #645 of 953 Old 09-24-2010, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioBear View Post

Murilo

I know what you mean. At first it seems too smooth, Give it time, it is actually also very sharp and detailed. You may just be missing noise it takes out. No joke. I have an Edge and use it next to my Denon AVP with the same Realta T2 chip as the 602 and I go back and forth every month or two, but I have finally settled on the Denon. The picture is more real and film-like if not life-like. It takes some getting used to but like Jabba you will grow to love it.



Quiet video. I guess that's why Qdeo coined the term.

There's no loss of detail at all for me. I keep NR at med for BD/DVD and high for broadcast TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

One other thing is i cannot get 1080p with my plasma connected. Will only go to 1080i, when I disconnect the plasma i get 1080p. Again monoprice switch displayed 1080p.


Murilo: Be sure you don't have the resolution output at auto. This could be the reason you aren't feeding 1080p to the plasma. Set it to 1080p or 1080p24 depending on material. I assume you have a 1080p display and it will accept 1080p.
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post #646 of 953 Old 09-24-2010, 06:18 AM
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Just curious unless I dont have something set up correctly, i find video based blue rays at 1080p/24 unwatchable. I know it should ideally be at 1080p/60 but im wondering if i dont have anything set up correctly. It was stuttering like crazy when I popped in a 1080i blue ray.
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post #647 of 953 Old 09-24-2010, 06:39 AM
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Quote:


i find video based blue rays at 1080p/24 unwatchable

that's correct, you can't change 1080i60 video-based content to 1080p24 without introducing massive studder.

A film-based 1080i BD on the other hand (not too many out there, Lupin III Castle of Cagliostro for example) will be converted fine to 1080p24.
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post #648 of 953 Old 09-24-2010, 01:59 PM
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" then i noticed my ps3 is passing multi channel pcm even with the plasma connected. DOnt know why but when I used a matrix switch this also happened, only my ps3 was basically able to force multichannel somehow."

In the PS3 you have the option of either using AUTO (EDID) for Audio or explicitly telling the PS3 what audio formats to output. You probably have the output formats set directly so it doesn't care what the EDID reports.

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post #649 of 953 Old 09-24-2010, 06:36 PM
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Good point sfog.

Well to be honest I love the processing of the vp, but i think i am going to try out an edge as well, the video output of the second monitor seems to be creating issues with my pc. I can correct that with the gefen or even the monoprice. Sometimes when i switch to my pc it records it as odd resolutions other times it comes in at 1080p perfectly. Not a big issue which is fixable, although possibly another 100 more fixable. Setting it to scale to 1080p works but then their is noticeable lag which i cant have for gaming.

Other thing i really dont like although i knew this going in is the auto framrate detection. Its to bad the denon did not have that feature i really wish it could output 1080/24 or 1080p would be perfect without having to manually change it.

Automation is a big part of my setup, i have a nevo sl about to get a nevo S70, mainly for my wife who hates having to touch stuff. So the resolution changing is a problem for her, she didnt even want to look at it when i showed it to her.

Here response was

"So now your telling me on certain blue rays i have to press buttons to make it not stutter, and other blue rays i dont, thats so stupid, why would you add this?"

Unfortunately i tend to agree which is why the edge is appealing.

I really do like the unit i just wish it was slightly more refined. I knew this going in but it does not hit home until im actually dealing with it.
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post #650 of 953 Old 09-24-2010, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

"So now your telling me on certain blue rays i have to press buttons to make it not stutter, and other blue rays i dont, thats so stupid, why would you add this?"

Unfortunately i tend to agree which is why the edge is appealing.

The trick is to make your setup so damned convoluted the wife just leaves it alone altogether.

I've got 3 scalers, 1 HDMI hub, multiple component switches, signal converters--you name it. None of it automated.

Trouble is I use my media room so little during the summer than it takes me a while to remember exactly how I have things currently routed. My wife now allots 10-15 min prep time before we want to watch a movie, because she knows it will take that long for me to crawl behind my rack to try to understand what I'd done weeks prior in a moment of "inspiration".

I've still only put 40 minutes on my Denon. Maybe when the snow hits I'll get back at it...
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post #651 of 953 Old 09-24-2010, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

The trick is to make your setup so damned convoluted the wife just leaves it alone altogether.

Is that done before or after she gives you a pillow and a blanket, and then points you towards the couch at bedtime?
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post #652 of 953 Old 09-25-2010, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

Other thing i really dont like although i knew this going in is the auto framrate detection. Its to bad the denon did not have that feature i really wish it could output 1080/24 or 1080p would be perfect without having to manually change it.

The vast majority of bd/dvd will be film so just leave that input set to output 1080p24 then manually toggle to 1080p60 for occasional video sources.

Leave your cable/sat input on 1080p60 output and you can experiment with 1080p24 for film sources if you like by manually toggling.

You won't have this convenience of per input output configuration with the Edge.

Additionally, "framelock" on the Edge doesn't recognize film vs video with interlaced sources-- it only works if the source is progressive. In other words, p24 in means p24 out and p60 in means p60 out. 1080i and 480i won't be distinguished as whether they are film or video so you may still need to manually switch---both 1080i and 480i will be recognized by framelock on the Edge as 30fps and output as p60 whether they actually are film or video.
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post #653 of 953 Old 09-25-2010, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Is that done before or after she gives you a pillow and a blanket, and then points you towards the couch at bedtime?

You get a pillow and a blanket? You must be doing something right.
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post #654 of 953 Old 09-25-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post


Additionally, "framelock" on the Edge doesn't recognize film vs video with interlaced sources-- it only works if the source is progressive. In other words, p24 in means p24 out and p60 in means p60 out. 1080i and 480i won't be distinguished as whether they are film or video so you may still need to manually switch---both 1080i and 480i will be recognized by framelock on the Edge as 30fps and output as p60 whether they actually are film or video.

What I would like since i dont watch much dvd is just 1080i to be output at 1080p60, I believe the edge does that.

The edge does have some downfalls I dont like that you cant bypass the scaling like you can with the denon, so im really not sure.
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post #655 of 953 Old 09-27-2010, 09:18 PM
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cpcat, when using an avr, you stated that the video overlay in pass-through mode doesn't allow the menu to be shown. i have a denon 4310 avr and was wondering if you found a workaround for being able to see the menu screen. currently, all of my sources are fed into the 602, with monitor 1 being output to my pj and monitor 2 output to input 1 on my avr. is this the best way to connect everything together?

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post #656 of 953 Old 09-27-2010, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

cpcat, when using an avr, you stated that the video overlay in pass-through mode doesn't allow the menu to be shown. i have a denon 4310 avr and was wondering if you found a workaround for being able to see the menu screen. currently, all of my sources are fed into the 602, with monitor 1 being output to my pj and monitor 2 output to input 1 on my avr. is this the best way to connect everything together?

To clarify, it's the avr menu screen you are referring to as the 602's should be no problem.

With your current configuration the way to see the avr menu screen would be to run another video output from the avr (like s-video) back to the 602. Then, switch to that input on the 602 whenever you need to see the avr's menu.

Alternatively, run everything to the 602, then monitor 1 out to the avr, then main hdmi output from the avr to the display (use the avr in video passthru mode). This way, the avr menus will be visible at anytime you want to access them.

In neither configuration will you be able to see the avr's volume control overlay. This would require the avr's video processing to be engaged which you really don't want.
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post #657 of 953 Old 09-27-2010, 09:48 PM
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I'm not sure why, but the last couple of days' posts are missing or have been deleted.

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post #658 of 953 Old 09-27-2010, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

I'm not sure why, but the last couple of days' posts are missing or have been deleted.


You're right, I though something was weird.
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post #659 of 953 Old 09-27-2010, 10:13 PM
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Well, here's one of the replies I retrieved (minus the quote and the link to the earlier post).

Maybe some of the posts just prior were felt by mods to be trolling and were deleted. If they come back I'll delete this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

There's no better deal in a vp right now IMO if you really NEED a vp from the standpoint of PQ. Basically, a vp can improve PQ via improved scaling, deinterlacing, noise reduction, and judicious detail enhancement. There still isn't a standalone vp available AFAIK that provides the 602's combination of scaling, deinterlacing, and complete HD/SD noise reduction even at <2.5K much less for what this unit is now going for.

Do you really need a vp from the standpoint of PQ? That's the real question. Many don't, either because they are watching a smaller screen and/or at a long(ish) viewing distance or they already have very decent video processing in their current display (or some combination of these factors).

If you want a vp for other reasons i.e. custom image stretching, cropping, or specific audio transcoding, CMS etc. then you'd probably be better off with a different unit that can fulfill those needs.

Here's my review from the beginning of this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15376047

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post #660 of 953 Old 09-28-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

To clarify, it's the avr menu screen you are referring to as the 602's should be no problem.

Alternatively, run everything to the 602, then monitor 1 out to the avr, then main hdmi output from the avr to the display (use the avr in video passthru mode). This way, the avr menus will be visible at anytime you want to access them.

correct, it is the avr's menu im talking about. i tried out a few ways of doing this, but the method you stated above works perfectly. only difference that i was able to achieve was enable not only the menu GUI, but also the volume control. i know another member here had the same issue with not being able to see the volume control, so here are the steps i took to enable that feature on the newer denons.

1.) all sources to 602
2.) hdmi out of 602 into 1 HDMI input on AVR
3.) AVR HDMI out to pj/tv
4.) go to the denon menu and select i/p scaler to "off"
5.) in the same menu, go to video convert and turn "on"

thats it. apparently, you need to turn on the video convert function for the menu GUI and volume control to turn on. i checked the denon 4310 owners thread and all there stated that as long as i/p scaler is set to "off" the AVR would be in pass-through mode.

cpcat, not sure if the onkyo has this feature or not. have you been able to get volume control to show up?

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