Official SONOS owners thread - Page 33 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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SimpleTheater's Avatar SimpleTheater 06:47 PM 05-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse69 View Post

What is going on with the Sonos App for IOS? I got a new one on my iPhone then a few days later I went to update my iPad and it doesn't show any new app available. Is it because the reviews of version 5 and they are overwhelmingly negative?I know people don't like change but admit this doesn't seem to be as intuitive of a layout as before. One of Sonos best selling points "Was" their apps and how clean / functional they were. 

Either way I want to get consistency between my devices, having the old interface on my iPad and the new one on my iPhone is a pain in the butt!
I got the new app on my iPhone and iPad and fell in love with it immediately. It's one of the few upgrades where they change things around on you, but it is so intuitive to figure out what to do. The ability to search all sources and all artists/songs/composers at one time is a huge time saver. No more going clicking three times to go to another room, just click on the current room name and the every zone appears and then switch/group with one more click.

The only thing STILL missing is a snooze on the alarm, thus my trusty CR200 controller lives a bit longer.

funhouse69's Avatar funhouse69 06:58 PM 05-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post


I got the new app on my iPhone and iPad and fell in love with it immediately. It's one of the few upgrades where they change things around on you, but it is so intuitive to figure out what to do. The ability to search all sources and all artists/songs/composers at one time is a huge time saver. No more going clicking three times to go to another room, just click on the current room name and the every zone appears and then switch/group with one more click.

The only thing STILL missing is a snooze on the alarm, thus my trusty CR200 controller lives a bit longer.


I hate that they separated the Alarm and Sleep Timer and I still can't get the new app on my iPad. Did they pull the app for some reason?


Joe Fernand's Avatar Joe Fernand 01:08 AM 05-22-2014
funhouse69 - delete the App. on your iPad and then download the New App.

Joe
mepstein10's Avatar mepstein10 05:20 PM 05-23-2014

It was fun having it, but I finally got around to getting rid of my entire sonos system. UI is great, but for me there are some rather annoying limitations that I can no longer deal with.


crazy4daisy's Avatar crazy4daisy 06:07 PM 05-23-2014
Lol.
rhett7660's Avatar rhett7660 03:29 PM 05-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mepstein10 View Post

It was fun having it, but I finally got around to getting rid of my entire sonos system. UI is great, but for me there are some rather annoying limitations that I can no longer deal with.

Can I ask why? I am actually looking to purchasing it, but would like to hear what limitations you are referring to.

Thanks
funhouse69's Avatar funhouse69 03:37 PM 05-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhett7660 View Post


Can I ask why? I am actually looking to purchasing it, but would like to hear what limitations you are referring to.

Thanks


I love my Sonos System and would like to hear about the limitations as well. The only one that I know of is with the Soundbad (aka their Playbar) and its lack of support for DTS which is HUGE these days since pretty much every Blu-Ray has DTS thankfully some of the Blu-Ray players down mix the Audio for you its the people that Rip / backup their movies that have more of an issue. Other then that what else could you ask for other than cheaper components? I feel that their players are a bit overpriced but are really high quality and their interface is top notch even though the newest update is not quite as intuitive but I am a creature of habit and will get used to it eventually. 


Techphil's Avatar Techphil 06:10 PM 05-30-2014
dts support has been added with the latest update
funhouse69's Avatar funhouse69 08:30 PM 05-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techphil View Post

dts support has been added with the latest update


Since when? According to Sonos this was something that they were NOT going to do. This Thread seemed to be the be all / end all one for them.

 

https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/please_add_support_for_dts_for_the_sonos_playbar


funhouse69's Avatar funhouse69 09:12 PM 05-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techphil View Post

dts support has been added with the latest update

As far as I know I have the latest released update Version: 5.0 (build 26176230) and I just tried it with my Croods Blu-Ray and I get the same thing, no audio whatsoever while playing it through my PlayBar. As I said before Sonos official statement is that they will NOT be adding DTS Support to the Playbar anytime soon.


SimpleTheater's Avatar SimpleTheater 12:45 AM 05-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mepstein10 View Post

It was fun having it, but I finally got around to getting rid of my entire sonos system. UI is great, but for me there are some rather annoying limitations that I can no longer deal with.
Put me in the camp of wanting to know the limitations. The only one that used to bother me was needing to keep my NAS running to play my music (not a big deal), but even that isn't necessary any longer with Google Play (unless you insist on uncompressed music). At some point I'm hoping SONOS will add support for internet enabled A/V receivers to automatically turn them on (if they're in standby) while using a CONNECT (no amp).

SONOS is pricey and while I like the new interface, they made some really dumb decisions (you now click the word SONOS to go to your music, prior to the update you clicked MUSIC to go to music), but overall it is better.

And while I'm speculating about your "limitations" you really can't call not being able to play SONOS through your computer speakers a weakness, because you could always drop a player on your desk and add speakers.
mepstein10's Avatar mepstein10 10:52 AM 05-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse69 View Post
 


I love my Sonos System and would like to hear about the limitations as well. The only one that I know of is with the Soundbad (aka their Playbar) and its lack of support for DTS which is HUGE these days since pretty much every Blu-Ray has DTS thankfully some of the Blu-Ray players down mix the Audio for you its the people that Rip / backup their movies that have more of an issue. Other then that what else could you ask for other than cheaper components? I feel that their players are a bit overpriced but are really high quality and their interface is top notch even though the newest update is not quite as intuitive but I am a creature of habit and will get used to it eventually. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post


Put me in the camp of wanting to know the limitations. The only one that used to bother me was needing to keep my NAS running to play my music (not a big deal), but even that isn't necessary any longer with Google Play (unless you insist on uncompressed music). At some point I'm hoping SONOS will add support for internet enabled A/V receivers to automatically turn them on (if they're in standby) while using a CONNECT (no amp).

SONOS is pricey and while I like the new interface, they made some really dumb decisions (you now click the word SONOS to go to your music, prior to the update you clicked MUSIC to go to music), but overall it is better.

And while I'm speculating about your "limitations" you really can't call not being able to play SONOS through your computer speakers a weakness, because you could always drop a player on your desk and add speakers.

 

Okay so I should elaborate on this. First and foremost, I am an audiophile. All of my music is in a lossless format. Usually FLAC, and some ALAC (though the formats are convertible to one another). Some of it is at 16/44.1, some at 16/48, but a good amount is at higher bitrates, 24bit/96, 24/192 (master quality) and a few at 32bit.

 

Sonos has immense difficulty streaming lossless formats. I've had the Sonos stop playing my normal flac files in the middle of playback, and skip entire tracks or multiple tracks in an album and it cannot even play/stream my higher bitrate files. Now for anyone who has lossy format music ( Lossy music is anything below a complete FLAC lossless rip, so any format mp3s are lossy), this is not an issue, but for those of us who want the full music experience without sacrificing quality it makes things rather unpleasant.

 

The issue comes from the way the system is designed. The Sonos has a 24bit DAC in the device, but it can only use 16bit at most. The reason I was told was because it constantly uses a portion of its processor to create the network, this would have been easily fixed with adding a secondary processor (i.e. an ARM processor could easily do this, and are dirt cheap, but Sonos chose to keep a single processor and DAC design).

 

Now for those who are not so picky about quality, Sonos is a great option, they have a clean and easy to use UI, and can be expanded or decreased to how many rooms is needed. But for those of us with higher standards than the average consumer are basically given an option of sacrificing quality for ease use and setup. Some will do so, some will not.

 

And between hearing an lossless flac and an mp3, you can definitely hear the difference. This is of course in the case of a true lossless flac and not a transcribe (a transcribe is someone taking an mp3, say 320 kbps and upconverting to flac, in that case it will sound like the mp3, so even as a flac, that particular one will still be a lossy rip, a true lossless flac rip has to be ripped from the original source material)

 

So between getting a different system or sacrificing quality, I chose the former. There are a few different option for streaming lossless. "Naim" makes several units that can stream lossless (including at 24 bit/192), the UnitiQute 2 all in one player does this exceptionally well, as do most of their other streamers and devices. 

 

The Logitech Squeeze Box transporter can stream 24/96, but not at 192. The Logitech Squeezebox 3 cannot.

 

The limitation is always processing power, if a unit has enough processing power it can stream any format, of course this is always the part that companies cheap out on. So to find out whether a unit can stream the higher quality formats often requires calling the manufacturer, doing some pretty intense internet research or doing at home tests and returning the unit once it becomes clear that it is not up to one's standards.

 

And SimpleTheater, that limitation is not what I would consider an issue. For information sake, the setup I use is the Sonos connected to my preamp which is connected to my McIntosh amp and then to my Monitor Audio speakers in the bedroom/office.


jgiddyup's Avatar jgiddyup 01:16 PM 05-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mepstein10 View Post


Okay so I should elaborate on this. First and foremost, I am an audiophile. All of my music is in a lossless format. Usually FLAC, and some ALAC (though the formats are convertible to one another). Some of it is at 16/44.1, some at 16/48, but a good amount is at higher bitrates, 24bit/96, 24/192 (master quality) and a few at 32bit.

Sonos has immense difficulty streaming lossless formats. I've had the Sonos stop playing my normal flac files in the middle of playback, and skip entire tracks or multiple tracks in an album and it cannot even play/stream my higher bitrate files. Now for anyone who has lossy format music ( Lossy music is anything below a complete FLAC lossless rip, so any format mp3s are lossy), this is not an issue, but for those of us who want the full music experience without sacrificing quality it makes things rather unpleasant.

The issue comes from the way the system is designed. The Sonos has a 24bit DAC in the device, but it can only use 16bit at most. The reason I was told was because it constantly uses a portion of its processor to create the network, this would have been easily fixed with adding a secondary processor (i.e. an ARM processor could easily do this, and are dirt cheap, but Sonos chose to keep a single processor and DAC design).

Now for those who are not so picky about quality, Sonos is a great option, they have a clean and easy to use UI, and can be expanded or decreased to how many rooms is needed. But for those of us with higher standards than the average consumer are basically given an option of sacrificing quality for ease use and setup. Some will do so, some will not.

And between hearing an lossless flac and an mp3, you can definitely hear the difference. This is of course in the case of a true lossless flac and not a transcribe (a transcribe is someone taking an mp3, say 320 kbps and upconverting to flac, in that case it will sound like the mp3, so even as a flac, that particular one will still be a lossy rip, a true lossless flac rip has to be ripped from the original source material)

So between getting a different system or sacrificing quality, I chose the former. There are a few different option for streaming lossless. "Naim" makes several units that can stream lossless (including at 24 bit/192), the UnitiQute 2 all in one player does this exceptionally well, as do most of their other streamers and devices. 

The Logitech Squeeze Box transporter can stream 24/96, but not at 192. The Logitech Squeezebox 3 cannot.

The limitation is always processing power, if a unit has enough processing power it can stream any format, of course this is always the part that companies cheap out on. So to find out whether a unit can stream the higher quality formats often requires calling the manufacturer, doing some pretty intense internet research or doing at home tests and returning the unit once it becomes clear that it is not up to one's standards.

And SimpleTheater, that limitation is not what I would consider an issue. For information sake, the setup I use is the Sonos connected to my preamp which is connected to my McIntosh amp and then to my Monitor Audio speakers in the bedroom/office.


If you didn't know Sonos didn't do above 16/48 when you bought it you didn't do a simple search.

Every one of my CD's is ripped directly to lossless Flac and have played flawlessly for 4.5 years as have all the rips of the four other people I've turned on to Sonos.

There are three possibilities for the issues you say you're having. Bad or non standard rips, network problems or faulty hardware. Everyone of which is generally easily corrected. Did you contact Sonos support and submit a diagnostic? Did you take a known problem rip and re rip using different software?

Of the three likely problems listed above, network issues is the likely cause and 95% of the time a simple complete restart of everything on the network followed by reserving or assigning static IP addresses fixes the problem.

And the "higher standards" you speak of have been repeatedly debunked as far as "higher res" music is concerned.

I don't think you ever owned Sonos, but if you did I also doubt you ever sought out the support resources available to you.

And as I've said in many prior post in this thread, I've been at this AV game for almost 40yrs and have bought and sold north of &150,000 worth of "audiophile" gear. Sonos is the best AV hardware purchase I've ever made.
mepstein10's Avatar mepstein10 02:38 PM 05-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgiddyup View Post


If you didn't know Sonos didn't do above 16/48 when you bought it you didn't do a simple search.

Every one of my CD's is ripped directly to lossless Flac and have played flawlessly for 4.5 years as have all the rips of the four other people I've turned on to Sonos.

There are three possibilities for the issues you say you're having. Bad or non standard rips, network problems or faulty hardware. Everyone of which is generally easily corrected. Did you contact Sonos support and submit a diagnostic? Did you take a known problem rip and re rip using different software?

Of the three likely problems listed above, network issues is the likely cause and 95% of the time a simple complete restart of everything on the network followed by reserving or assigning static IP addresses fixes the problem.

And the "higher standards" you speak of have been repeatedly debunked as far as "higher res" music is concerned.

I don't think you ever owned Sonos, but if you did I also doubt you ever sought out the support resources available to you.

And as I've said in many prior post in this thread, I've been at this AV game for almost 40yrs and have bought and sold north of &150,000 worth of "audiophile" gear. Sonos is the best AV hardware purchase I've ever made.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Audio has always been a game of preferences, mine and yours vary.  We also have different ears and hear differently.  I don't see a reason to be accusatory or confrontational about it. You can claim that Sonos is the best AV gear you have ever purchased. That is fine, but that statement is your opinion. It is not fact, it hasn't been proven by an impartial judge. You want everyone to like it because you like it. That's human nature, but not everyone likes the same things, or has the same opinions.

 

The higher standards I mentioned have been proven by many sources, debunked by others, and in the end everyone will choose what they like. It's like the chicken and egg, it is a debate will go on indefinitely. So if we do not share the same opinions, let's do the forum a favor and at least be civil.

 

And for the record I did own Sonos for about 2 years before I finally got rid of it. I can't think that it would be the network since everything is hardwired in my home, but I do have other wireless frequencies running, so perhaps they could have interfered with Sonos' wireless network. The rips are rips using EAC, though please define what you mean by standard.  Now considering hardware - that is a possibility I have not considered, but did not think to check, so it could have been a faulty unit.

 

I did talk to support, and they did state that I could not play the higher bitrate flac files, though I do not remember if they mentioned anything regarding lossless 16/48 rips. I don't recall them running any diagnostics. In either case, it is rather moot since I already got rid of it. 


Techphil's Avatar Techphil 05:31 PM 05-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse69 View Post

As far as I know I have the latest released update Version: 5.0 (build 26176230) and I just tried it with my Croods Blu-Ray and I get the same thing, no audio whatsoever while playing it through my PlayBar. As I said before Sonos official statement is that they will NOT be adding DTS Support to the Playbar anytime soon.

Sorry. I read that on a post on linkedIN. It was sarcasm,i read it fast and i didnt catch it. Sorry for spreading misinformation.
knoxtn's Avatar knoxtn 05:29 AM 06-01-2014
>>>First and foremost, I am an audiophile. All of my music is in a lossless format.

Nothing in the audiophile world is in the Sonos price point. I never thought of Sonos as an audiophile device. I use it to play music in various parts of the house and the great user interface.
oOOBillO0o's Avatar oOOBillO0o 09:23 PM 06-02-2014
Audiophile, Music Fanatic, etc..

Sonos allows anyone to connect to there music. It has it shortcomings. I'm sure the tragically technical want the Sonos to be a Swiss Knife of Audio, and then some.

My observation to the flaws in my Sonos system are that the Connect+ does not have a 12v trigger, Cannot control a device- such as Volume and input.(does it in software) and the lack of a high output mesh networked multichannel system.
panmanbrooks's Avatar panmanbrooks 06:18 AM 06-05-2014

I have three sonos connects attached to three receivers in separate rooms in my house. I ran cat 5 wire to each location, and plugged each connect to the network. I was having connection difficulties and wireless repeater problems. I disconnected everything, reset the router and repeater, and brought each computer, printer, roku onto the network and one at a time and monitored the routers list of connected devices. When I plugged the first Sonos I bought to the Ethernet connection, magically, 2 other devices appeared, as mac addresses, (the other 2 connects). Everything works beautifully. The first Sonos appears on the routers  list of connected devices as "Sonos zone player", the other two are listed by their mac address. I'd like to think that a wired connection would deliver a "better" connection, but  they are communicating now and working. So, the questions.

 

Is it true that the connects will deliver a better connection to the receivers if they are connected via Ethernet?

 

Is there a Sonos connection method going on "behind the scenes" that brings them all together?

 

If Ethernet connection is better, is some configuration required to eliminate any confusion regarding wired or wireless? As I was experiencing problems, I received Sonos messages on my iPhone that to could not connect, and sometimes when it did, not all of the connects were found.

 

and a comment.

 

The Sonos connects were in rooms with a wireless signal too weak for laptops to join, yet the Sonos connects were communicating  and performing as expected.


funhouse69's Avatar funhouse69 06:28 AM 06-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by panmanbrooks View Post
 

I have three sonos connects attached to three receivers in separate rooms in my house. I ran cat 5 wire to each location, and plugged each connect to the network. I was having connection difficulties and wireless repeater problems. I disconnected everything, reset the router and repeater, and brought each computer, printer, roku onto the network and one at a time and monitored the routers list of connected devices. When I plugged the first Sonos I bought to the Ethernet connection, magically, 2 other devices appeared, as mac addresses, (the other 2 connects). Everything works beautifully. The first Sonos appears on the routers  list of connected devices as "Sonos zone player", the other two are listed by their mac address. I'd like to think that a wired connection would deliver a "better" connection, but  they are communicating now and working. So, the questions.

 

Is it true that the connects will deliver a better connection to the receivers if they are connected via Ethernet?

 

Is there a Sonos connection method going on "behind the scenes" that brings them all together?

 

If Ethernet connection is better, is some configuration required to eliminate any confusion regarding wired or wireless? As I was experiencing problems, I received Sonos messages on my iPhone that to could not connect, and sometimes when it did, not all of the connects were found.

 

and a comment.

 

The Sonos connects were in rooms with a wireless signal too weak for laptops to join, yet the Sonos connects were communicating  and performing as expected.

 

You can connect multiple Sonos Devices to your network via Ethernet HOWEVER you have to do some tweaking on your network equipment to get it to work otherwise you will end up with a Broadcast Storm which can cause lots of issues on the entire network not just on the Sonos Side.

 

Sonos does a wonderful job with its Wireless Mesh Network as long as it doesn't experience too much interference or distance issues. I've had some random issues but it has been very stable for me. If you would to wired with all of your devices you are taking the wireless out of it. I don't think you will get a Better Sound Quality you are only going to reduce any dropouts / connectivity issues that you might be experiencing.

 

As for the network settings here is a Post on the Sonos Support Site to explain it.

 

http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=16973


scientest's Avatar scientest 06:31 AM 06-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by panmanbrooks View Post

Is it true that the connects will deliver a better connection to the receivers if they are connected via Ethernet?

Is there a Sonos connection method going on "behind the scenes" that brings them all together?

If Ethernet connection is better, is some configuration required to eliminate any confusion regarding wired or wireless?
Short answer: Yes, Yes, No

Long answer: wireless will work fine. With good cables and good switches / routers wired will work better. Behind the scenes the Sonos (at least older Sono units) is running a proprietary wireless mesh network. So when you plugged in the 1st device it immediately saw the other two. I don't think you need to restart the units to get them to switch from wireless to wired but you certainly don't need to change any configuration.
panmanbrooks's Avatar panmanbrooks 07:22 AM 06-05-2014


thank you, especially for the link from Sonos regarding the technical issues surrounding switch requirements. I thought I wanted to know more, but on reading the info from Sonos, I realize that significant background expertise is required to even fully understand the subject. I did connect my additional Sonus connects to the network, and my switch has not caused problems, I will be on the lookout for Broadcast Storms.


funhouse69's Avatar funhouse69 07:26 AM 06-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by panmanbrooks View Post
 


thank you, especially for the link from Sonos regarding the technical issues surrounding switch requirements. I thought I wanted to know more, but on reading the info from Sonos, I realize that significant background expertise is required to even fully understand the subject. I did connect my additional Sonus connects to the network, and my switch has not caused problems, I will be on the lookout for Broadcast Storms.


BTW - Sonos Support is really good (at least in my experience) so don't hesitate to contact them if you have any questions / issues.


panmanbrooks's Avatar panmanbrooks 07:29 AM 06-05-2014


thank you, I went from wireless to wired, everything is in order. This is a fascinating product, and works wonderfully, Wired or wireless.


knoxtn's Avatar knoxtn 05:25 AM 06-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxtn View Post

>>>First and foremost, I am an audiophile. All of my music is in a lossless format.

Nothing in the audiophile world is in the Sonos price point. I never thought of Sonos as an audiophile device. I use it to play music in various parts of the house and the great user interface.

Also....if you don't mind trading Sonos' features for high REZ ... here is a ripoff of Sonos you may like or that new Sony player will also play high rez
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 06:45 AM 06-06-2014
Now let's see if bluesound can build out a nice UI and be a contender!
artur9's Avatar artur9 05:16 PM 06-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Now let's see if bluesound can build out a nice UI and be a contender!

Actually, if it can work with DLNA then there are some pretty darn decent DLNA controllers out there. Some are reminiscent of the older Sonos UI.
nathan_h's Avatar nathan_h 01:34 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by beastaudio 

Now let's see if bluesound can build out a nice UI and be a contender!


Actually, if it can work with DLNA then there are some pretty darn decent DLNA controllers out there. Some are reminiscent of the older Sonos UI.
Curious to know which DLNA controllers you are talking about.
artur9's Avatar artur9 06:29 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Curious to know which DLNA controllers you are talking about.
Just something I was playing around with the other day using an Android phone that I no longer use as a phone, just a remote.

I had heard that the Sonos was a DMR (digital media renderer?) and could be controlled with a DMC (digital media controller?).

So I downloaded a couple to see if it was true. While it was true that the Sonos could be controlled that way the majority of the apps I tried were clunky or buggy. But I thought that the Network Audio Remote worked best of the set I tried and it looked very similar to the Sonos app before the recent update.
nathan_h's Avatar nathan_h 09:26 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Just something I was playing around with the other day using an Android phone that I no longer use as a phone, just a remote.

I had heard that the Sonos was a DMR (digital media renderer?) and could be controlled with a DMC (digital media controller?).

So I downloaded a couple to see if it was true. While it was true that the Sonos could be controlled that way the majority of the apps I tried were clunky or bugger. But I thought that the Network Audio Remote worked best of the set I tried and it looked very similar to the Sonos app before the recent update.
Thanks.
Rugged1's Avatar Rugged1 06:08 AM 06-20-2014
I am not an audiophile...I simply want good/decent music choices across multiple rooms in my house. I own 2 play 3s, a play 1 and now just received a free play 5 as a member of their beta program!

I love all that sonos has to offer me...a casual listener of music!
Tags: amp , Marantz Pm6004 Integrated Amplifier , Sonos , Sonos Playbar Tv Soundbar And Wireless Speaker For Streaming Music
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