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post #1231 of 1256 Old 01-20-2015, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by funhouse69 View Post
What is it about my setup that every time I add in a new device my whole setup becomes unstable? It happens every single time. I recently added in a Connect and since then I can't seem to get anything to play any source for more than 20 minutes without it stopping.

I've powered everything down and powered them backup one at a time starting with the one connected to my Network and still the same.

I am 100% sure I don't have any IP Conflicts as I am using DHCP Reservations for all of my Sonos Devices.

I check the Network Matrix page and it all looks good / nothing glaringly wrong.

This is driving me nuts!!!
Are you running a wired network with more than one switch?

Last house I had multiple switches and a lot of connections and I had some problems when using Netgear managed switches. I finally ended up selling the switches and using cheap, unmanaged, ZyXEL switches. The Netgears were particularly problematic if I had something using one of the extra ports on the Sonos, had to use an extra 4 port switch in some locations because of them.
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post #1232 of 1256 Old 01-22-2015, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by scientest View Post
Are you running a wired network with more than one switch?

Last house I had multiple switches and a lot of connections and I had some problems when using Netgear managed switches. I finally ended up selling the switches and using cheap, unmanaged, ZyXEL switches. The Netgears were particularly problematic if I had something using one of the extra ports on the Sonos, had to use an extra 4 port switch in some locations because of them.
I am running only a single wired connection (my Play 5) the rest aren't wired, I tried to wire more of them but kept running in to the broadcast storm even with STP Enabled on all of my switches.

I have a mixture of Cisco, Netgear and HP / 3COM Switches throughout my house not to mention a Cisco WLAN Controller / Cisco Access Points.

EDIT - I am not using any of the Sonos Ethernet Ports for anything else.

Denon AVR-X7200 - Klipsch RF-82 II Fronts, RC-62 II Center, RS-52 II Surrounds & R-112SW & Four CDT-5800-C II Ceilings for an Atmos 5.1.4 Setup.
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post #1233 of 1256 Old 01-22-2015, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse69 View Post
I am running only a single wired connection (my Play 5) the rest aren't wired, I tried to wire more of them but kept running in to the broadcast storm even with STP Enabled on all of my switches.

I have a mixture of Cisco, Netgear and HP / 3COM Switches throughout my house not to mention a Cisco WLAN Controller / Cisco Access Points.

EDIT - I am not using any of the Sonos Ethernet Ports for anything else.
Again...it could be WiFi interference.....phones, computers, microwaves,..........try putting Sonos on a new channel.
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post #1234 of 1256 Old 01-22-2015, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse69 View Post
I am running only a single wired connection (my Play 5) the rest aren't wired, I tried to wire more of them but kept running in to the broadcast storm even with STP Enabled on all of my switches.

I have a mixture of Cisco, Netgear and HP / 3COM Switches throughout my house not to mention a Cisco WLAN Controller / Cisco Access Points.

EDIT - I am not using any of the Sonos Ethernet Ports for anything else.
It may be necessary to enable STP with Sonos installs, as ZonePlayers are bridges and use 802.1D Spanning Tree (STP) for loop prevention between wired ZonePlayers and the wireless SonosNet Mesh Network (they don't support Rapid spanning tree (802.1W), but 802.1W bridges will fall back to 802.1D.)

Most managed switches that I've seen have STP disabled by default. If the switch passes the STP BPDU packets transmitted between ZonePlayers, there should be no need for it to be turned on. Many switches also have a setting called something like "Pass BPDUs" or equivalent. If enabled, this allows the BPDUs to pass between ZonePlayers without having to enable STP on the the switch.

One work of caution of you do have multiple switches and use STP with Sonos, IIRC Sonos uses a path cost of 10 (whereas the inter-switch trunk connections typically default to 200K. If you don't drop the path cost on the switches, your traffic is going to go via the Sonos bridges.

In simple terms, unless you have multiple bridges that form redundant route.
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post #1235 of 1256 Old 01-22-2015, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse69 View Post
I am running only a single wired connection (my Play 5) the rest aren't wired, I tried to wire more of them but kept running in to the broadcast storm even with STP Enabled on all of my switches.

I have a mixture of Cisco, Netgear and HP / 3COM Switches throughout my house not to mention a Cisco WLAN Controller / Cisco Access Points.

EDIT - I am not using any of the Sonos Ethernet Ports for anything else.
Sounds like a pretty large network which could be the source of the problem, When I originally diagnosed my problem I disconnected everything except my media server, the main switch, a remote switch and one Sonos. I then started adding things back on. There was no single piece of equipment that caused the problem but eventually as I added more devices things would go unstable. In my case the only constant was the 2 Netgear switches so I started swapping them out with other equipment and found the problem only occurred with them both in the network. Certain groups of equipment (like a device hanging off a Sonos) also made the problem occur but only when other equipment was present and in no consistent fashion. Once I started digging I found other reports of similar problems with the Netgear switches I had (though not associated with Sonos equipment). I had originally bought them to set up a couple VLANs and some QOS configuration but that need had gone away as I upgraded the network so I just got rid of them...

Just for the record, in my case Spanning Tree was configured though the question of route cost makes me wonder if I ever checked that out fully. I had no possible loops, unless maybe the Sonos devices will start doing something with their wireless mesh at some points?
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post #1236 of 1256 Old 01-22-2015, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by scientest View Post

Just for the record, in my case Spanning Tree was configured though the question of route cost makes me wonder if I ever checked that out fully. I had no possible loops, unless maybe the Sonos devices will start doing something with their wireless mesh at some points?
Sonos Zone Players are, in fact, bridges, so the config needs to accommodate that. I think STP is limited to 7 levels
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post #1237 of 1256 Old 01-22-2015, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post
Sonos Zone Players are, in fact, bridges, so the config needs to accommodate that. I think STP is limited to 7 levels
In my case the one Netgear was in the downstairs AV rack and the other in the upstairs office but it had a Sonos in some bedrooms and also had a run to the downstairs living room where there was another Sonos. So I definitely had Sonos devices within 4 hops of each other on different legs of the tree. I recall looking a routing costs but I don't think I ever changed them. If the Sonos was allowing IP loops via the wireless Sonos Net then that could have very well been the root of my problem. Sonos support never spotted that if that was the case, but given how complex the network was I'm not surprised it was missed. As I write this I recall that this whole problem surfaced when I switched from Comcast to Uverse for my Internet provider and the main router for the network switched from the upstairs office to the downstairs AV rack so there was a lot going on that made diagnosis a royal pain...
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post #1238 of 1256 Old 01-25-2015, 08:14 PM
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I currently have ZP 90s, one on each level of my home and all 3 are hard wired.
For control I use 2 - CR100s, and my IPhone.

For some reason my CR 100s often drop out and cannot find my ZP90s. However; my iPhone Always works with all 3 zones.

I'm thinking of losing the CR100s and going exclusively with control via tablets/apps.

My question:
Can anyone recommend a reliable but cheap non-iOS tablet solution?
If so; I'll probably buy 2 of them to replace the CR100s

Thanks in Advance!

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post #1239 of 1256 Old 01-26-2015, 10:59 AM
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Hey Craig! Fancy running into you here!

I don't know of a non-iOS tablet or app, as we're knee deep in Apple devices around Hanesville, but I also have two old CR100s, which are still in use and hanging in there. One works fine, but on the other the battery went bad, so I did a DIY, non Sonos battery replacement, to save some money. Long story short, the new battery didn't last long, and that unit of necessity lives on the kitchen recharger almost continuously, as it is dead within about half an hour otherwise, and the resident teens seem to leave it all over God's creation.

We mainly use the iOS app to control things now, although as you know the CR100 is much quicker/easier to 'wake up" compared to the app. I sometimes think about buying a new Sonos battery, but have a hard time justifying the expense when we have the app on so many devices, and zones in multiple locations away from the one fully functioning controller.

Good luck!

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post #1240 of 1256 Old 01-26-2015, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post
I currently have ZP 90s, one on each level of my home and all 3 are hard wired.
For control I use 2 - CR100s, and my IPhone.

For some reason my CR 100s often drop out and cannot find my ZP90s. However; my iPhone Always works with all 3 zones.

I'm thinking of losing the CR100s and going exclusively with control via tablets/apps.

My question:
Can anyone recommend a reliable but cheap non-iOS tablet solution?
If so; I'll probably buy 2 of them to replace the CR100s

Thanks in Advance!
Define cheap. I went with a refurb Nexus and it works nicely, and felt like a "steal" compared with the price of an iPad.

Nexus 7 new is 180. At that price I would probably have gotten an iPod Touch for 200. But a refurb Nexus was under $150.

The cheapest solution is probably the Amazon fire. Aren't they down to 100? Just double check that the Sonos app is available. (I'm 99% sure I recall that it is.)
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post #1241 of 1256 Old 01-26-2015, 04:18 PM
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Nathan,

Thanks for the tip for a possible Android direction. I just checked on the Sonos website and:

1) Appears their system will support the Kindle Fire (key is Android version 2.1 or higher).
2) Also looks like Android products may have an advantage with Sonos? The Sonos website made one reference to "Android tablets being able to communicate Directly with a Sonos Network?". I find that promising and wonder if anyone else can comment on this being a technical advantage?

Sidenote:
In addition to my existing iphone,
I just ordered a refurbished Ipad 2 for ~$200.00
For my 3rd controller I will most likely try the Kindle Fire


Regards
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post #1242 of 1256 Old 01-26-2015, 08:53 PM
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The version of Android on the Fire Tablet does not always support the apps one would think, since it is so heavily modified. But it looks like customer reviews on Amazon of the official SONOS app say it works, so that's a good sign.

The SONOS network feature is probably useful in some situations. I didn't find it to be much different than regular wifi -- and SONOS notes that if you are using your android device for other online stuff, you are then stealing bandwidth from the SONOS mesh network.

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post #1243 of 1256 Old 01-27-2015, 12:33 PM
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[QUOTE=nathan_h;31198449]The version of Android on the Fire Tablet does not always support the apps one would think, since it is so heavily modified. But it looks like customer reviews on Amazon of the official SONOS app say it works, so that's a good sign. Sure enough I saw those same reviews last night.

The SONOS network feature is probably useful in some situations. I didn't find it to be much different than regular wifi -- and SONOS notes that if you are using your android device for other online stuff, you are then stealing bandwidth from the SONOS mesh network. At that price for the Fire; I would likely be dedicating the Fire tablet to Sonos control /QUOTE]

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post #1244 of 1256 Old 01-27-2015, 02:16 PM
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[quote=cuzed2;31218121]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
The version of Android on the Fire Tablet does not always support the apps one would think, since it is so heavily modified. But it looks like customer reviews on Amazon of the official SONOS app say it works, so that's a good sign. Sure enough I saw those same reviews last night.

The SONOS network feature is probably useful in some situations. I didn't find it to be much different than regular wifi -- and SONOS notes that if you are using your android device for other online stuff, you are then stealing bandwidth from the SONOS mesh network. At that price for the Fire; I would likely be dedicating the Fire tablet to Sonos control /QUOTE]


Lots of choices here http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...ctronics%2C161

I would get something that can run 4.4 KitKat at least and the current lollipop if you can because at some point earlier versions of both IOS and Android will be dropped. So might as well maximize the supported life of the product as your budget allows.

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post #1245 of 1256 Old 01-27-2015, 04:47 PM
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I would get something that can run 4.4 KitKat at least and the current lollipop if you can because at some point earlier versions of both IOS and Android will be dropped. So might as well maximize the supported life of the product as your budget allows.
If you can live with 4.1 or 4.2 or are ok doing your own ROM then for a single purpose tablet the refurbished Hisense Sero 7 or the Sero 7 Pro over on the egg can't be beat price wise: $45 or $90 respectively. There seems to be a lot of variability in how long they last and overall quality but at those price points I've been tempted to pick up one just to play with...
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Has anyone else had the issue of your sonos playlist losing contact, even though the wireless signal is dead on perfect? I have been noticing that my system will all of a sudden say "Unable to play track:xyz." even though the network and everything else is perfect. Sometimes this will even happen halfway through a song and it will move on to the next one. It seems to be getting more frequent.

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post #1247 of 1256 Old 01-28-2015, 07:26 AM
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Has anyone else had the issue of your sonos playlist losing contact, even though the wireless signal is dead on perfect? I have been noticing that my system will all of a sudden say "Unable to play track:xyz." even though the network and everything else is perfect. Sometimes this will even happen halfway through a song and it will move on to the next one. It seems to be getting more frequent.
Yes. It can happen for various reasons, particularly if from a playlist. Sometimes it is simply that the "link" to the track on whatever service it is on has broken (ie., track removed or moved). I have found that doing a search on that service for the track again and resaving onto the playlist will fix it (delete old link in playlist).

Sometimes it's just Internet/service(Rhapsody, etc.) issues.

You also might want to try changing wireless channels, just in case it's sporadic interference. Saving a support snapshot (forget the name in the software) when it happens and calling Sonos support they can tell if it's wireless issues or not from the detailed logs they get.

Last edited by Gooddoc; 01-28-2015 at 07:29 AM.
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post #1248 of 1256 Old 01-28-2015, 08:13 AM
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Yea, my guess is it's more intermittent issues as the dropouts are always when using my local music library. One other thing that I feel like I have noticed as well, even though I have 6,000 tracks, it seems to me that sonos gets stuck playing the same tracks over and over. Like some artists just seem to ALWAYS be playing while others I haven't heard the entire time I have had the sonos system...It is truly strange. When I am working in the garage and using the same library, just direct from my ipod, I hear all kinds of music I have never heard using the sonos. This might just be me, but it seems it can be the case some times.

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post #1249 of 1256 Old 01-28-2015, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
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If you can live with 4.1 or 4.2 or are ok doing your own ROM then for a single purpose tablet the refurbished Hisense Sero 7 or the Sero 7 Pro over on the egg can't be beat price wise: $45 or $90 respectively. There seems to be a lot of variability in how long they last and overall quality but at those price points I've been tempted to pick up one just to play with...
giddyup / scientest:
Thank you both for the additional suggestions!

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post #1250 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 02:56 AM
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Has anyone else had the issue of your sonos playlist losing contact, even though the wireless signal is dead on perfect? I have been noticing that my system will all of a sudden say "Unable to play track:xyz." even though the network and everything else is perfect. Sometimes this will even happen halfway through a song and it will move on to the next one. It seems to be getting more frequent.
Also try clicking the menu choice - MANAGE/UPDATE SONOS DATABASE NOW when you are having trouble.
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post #1251 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 05:53 AM
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Yes. It can happen for various reasons, particularly if from a playlist. Sometimes it is simply that the "link" to the track on whatever service it is on has broken (ie., track removed or moved). I have found that doing a search on that service for the track again and resaving onto the playlist will fix it (delete old link in playlist).

Sometimes it's just Internet/service(Rhapsody, etc.) issues.

You also might want to try changing wireless channels, just in case it's sporadic interference. Saving a support snapshot (forget the name in the software) when it happens and calling Sonos support they can tell if it's wireless issues or not from the detailed logs they get.

I have been experiencing numerous "Lost connection to Pandora..." when Sonos goes to get the next song for a station that I have set up. Pandora is by far the worst but occasionally this will happen with Spotify and Songza as well. So I end up missing songs quite often and sometimes the problem happens in a row such that there is a significant delay between songs with Pandora.

I have not seen the same problem when playing from my own library - but I will try that this morning to make sure local stuff does not have the same issue. I doubt that is the case though so my problem may be different.

Has anyone else been experiencing frequent issues like I describe when using Pandora stations that you have set up?

- Scott
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post #1252 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 06:54 AM
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Pandora - do you see the same issue if you access it via a PC or MAC?


Sonos dropout - if you have the option try hardwiring one of your Zone Players to your Network, make it one which is a distance away from the Zone with the closest connection to your Router.


Sonos - I'm still assuming everyone has at least one wired connection to your Network, possibly you don't?


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post #1253 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 09:06 AM
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giddyup / scientest:
Thank you both for the additional suggestions!
I haven't used it but the Asus Memopad 7 is another one I've read some good things about. $129 on Amazon.

If you plan to use the tablet as a dedicated controller, there are other apps that allow you to 'lock' the tablet to the Sonos app, so it's as close as you can get to it being a replacement for a CR100.

This thread has more info:
http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?p=226213
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post #1254 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 11:02 PM
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Pandora - do you see the same issue if you access it via a PC or MAC?


Sonos dropout - if you have the option try hardwiring one of your Zone Players to your Network, make it one which is a distance away from the Zone with the closest connection to your Router.


Sonos - I'm still assuming everyone has at least one wired connection to your Network, possibly you don't?


Joe

I will try accessing Pandora from my desktop tomorrow as a comparison. Regarding your suggestion about hardwiring one Sonos component which is one of the furthest from my router - that is how I am set up currently. I did test out playing from my local music library for several hours today and as I expected I did not encounter any errors.

It will be interesting to see how Pandora on my desktop compares.

- Scott
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I will try accessing Pandora from my desktop tomorrow as a comparison. Regarding your suggestion about hardwiring one Sonos component which is one of the furthest from my router - that is how I am set up currently. I did test out playing from my local music library for several hours today and as I expected I did not encounter any errors.

It will be interesting to see how Pandora on my desktop compares.

Well I played Pandora for several hours on my desktop computer and never had a error or break due to connection loss. I have no doubt there is a problem in my network that is causing the sonos software an issue. And it does seem that the Pandora service is more sensitive than the other services within Sonos as well. I am beginning to suspect there is a timing issue with my router. I actually have a business class router - Fortigate 60D - and from the monitoring I can do it never gets into any high cpu or memory usage while I have Pandora playing - or for that matter anytime else. It certainly has way more horsepower to handle this interface than I need. My up and down speeds are good with my ISP as well. Very strange.

- Scott
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