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post #1261 of 1285 Old 05-27-2015, 10:06 AM
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Can anyone suggest a good volume control for in wall? I have a new build and ceiling speakers run to the VLC box then to the connect amps in the basement.

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #1262 of 1285 Old 05-27-2015, 12:23 PM
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Can anyone suggest a good volume control for in wall? I have a new build and ceiling speakers run to the VLC box then to the connect amps in the basement.
If you have a dedicated Connect:Amp for each room (i.e. no cases where 2 or more rooms are being powered by the same Connect:Amp) then the simplest and most effective option is an old iPad running the Sonos app in a wall-mounted dock wherever you want one. Having the ability to control not only the volume but also the audio content being played in each zone, from that zone's wall-mounted control is a nice feature. Plus, no additional wiring is required beyond power for keeping the iPad charged.

This also avoids some of the pitfalls of mixing and matching in-app and external volume controls as you have 100% control of the volume from any device with a Sonos app. For example, with a "dumb" wall-mounted control, if somebody has turned the volume all the way down at the wall control, no amount of turning it up within the app will do anything. Likewise, if somebody has turned the volume all the way down in the app then no amount of turning it up at the wall control will do anything. When you use a single control method (whether that be the in-app controls or an external control), you can predict how loud your speakers will play with the volume slider/knob set at a particular position. Once you start mixing multiple methods of controlling the volume, you don't know how loud the music will play without adjusting it by ear from that listening position, because you have no way of knowing what position the other volume control is set at unless you are fiddling with both at the same time.

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post #1263 of 1285 Old 05-27-2015, 06:07 PM
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Thanks. I appreciate the dual control aspect but I have 4 runs and 3 amps. All have volume control drops as per the installer. I just need a good recommendation on what controllers to get? I don't plan on really using most of them but I do plan on splitting the deck with the family room speakers and using the control to effectively silence one set as needed.

Any good iPad mounts? I have two mini retinas I purchased so I can mount one upstairs and one in the basement.

Thanks for the reply!

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #1264 of 1285 Old 05-29-2015, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metric View Post
Thanks. I appreciate the dual control aspect but I have 4 runs and 3 amps. All have volume control drops as per the installer. I just need a good recommendation on what controllers to get? I don't plan on really using most of them but I do plan on splitting the deck with the family room speakers and using the control to effectively silence one set as needed.

Any good iPad mounts? I have two mini retinas I purchased so I can mount one upstairs and one in the basement.

Thanks for the reply!
If you're looking for a basic volume controller and have already installed (or are planning to install) a single gang low voltage box/bracket, then you can't really beat Monoprice for pricing...

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_i...FQQRHwodRqEApw

When it comes to iPad Mini wall mount brackets, there are a lot of different options. They range from in-wall/on-wall enclosures to articulating arms to simple clips that allow you to easily remove/replace the tablet. Some allow access to all of the buttons and ports all of the time. Some allow you to restrict access to some/all buttons if desired. Some are attached to the wall with screws. Some use command strips. Some are adjustable to fit just about any tablet. Some only fit a a few models. Aesthetics vary greatly from sleek stainless steel enclosures or clips to colored plastic/rubber. If you want one that requires easy removal/replacement of the tablet, with no need to cut or drill holes in the wall then you may like this one...

http://www.amazon.com/Damage-free-Do...xp_grid_pt_0_0

If that one doesn't suit then simply do a search for iPad wall mount on Amazon.com and you find plenty of options. If you can narrow down what style you want then I'm sure somebody here can make a better recommendation.
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post #1265 of 1285 Old 05-29-2015, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
If you're looking for a basic volume controller and have already installed (or are planning to install) a single gang low voltage box/bracket, then you can't really beat Monoprice for pricing...

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_i...FQQRHwodRqEApw

When it comes to iPad Mini wall mount brackets, there are a lot of different options. They range from in-wall/on-wall enclosures to articulating arms to simple clips that allow you to easily remove/replace the tablet. Some allow access to all of the buttons and ports all of the time. Some allow you to restrict access to some/all buttons if desired. Some are attached to the wall with screws. Some use command strips. Some are adjustable to fit just about any tablet. Some only fit a a few models. Aesthetics vary greatly from sleek stainless steel enclosures or clips to colored plastic/rubber. If you want one that requires easy removal/replacement of the tablet, with no need to cut or drill holes in the wall then you may like this one...

http://www.amazon.com/Damage-free-Do...xp_grid_pt_0_0

If that one doesn't suit then simply do a search for iPad wall mount on Amazon.com and you find plenty of options. If you can narrow down what style you want then I'm sure somebody here can make a better recommendation.
So there's nothing in the volume control? I read something about transformer free ones were better for bass? I couldn't find explicitly that the monoprice ones were impedance matched?


I really want a built in flush look to the contrl, ipad or Samsung tablets, whatever looks clean - id like the permanently powered so I don't have to remove and charge them.

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #1266 of 1285 Old 05-29-2015, 08:45 AM
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So there's nothing in the volume control? I read something about transformer free ones were better for bass? I couldn't find explicitly that the monoprice ones were impedance matched?
I have no knowledge of the differences in quality between volume controllers that use transformers and those that do not. However, if you click on the Specifications link, you'll see that it does offer impedance matching. They also have sliding controllers if you prefer those over the rotary style.
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post #1267 of 1285 Old 05-30-2015, 08:10 AM
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Joined the ranks... After thinking about it for years, and being pushed a little by a co-worker who has a full house setup and loves it, I purchased a Bridge and Connect a few months ago with the idea of ripping all my CDs to play over the network. I have a few hundred, nowhere near as many as some here and a fraction of all the LPs I used to have, but it was still a chore! I used dBpoweramp to rip to FLAC. It didn't get all the track titles right, but handled the majority, and I'll fix the rest as I find them. I finally finished a few weeks ago and got around to hooking up the Sonos system last weekend. I am using the Connect's audio outputs though plan to use the digital output after I switch receivers (had the new one a few weeks, just no time to put it in).

Not really using anything like this before, I found the interface a bit quirky but very easy to use. I had no problem getting the Bridge to work and then adding the Connect was really easy. I had nightmares about fighting network issues for days/weeks trying to get everything to work but it was literally a few minutes. While I bought a wireless media adapter to hook up the new receiver, I stuck with the Sonos mesh network for the Connect (figured it was easier and safer to let it use its own network). It was easy to map my music library (ripped to my notebook then synched to a WD MyCloud NAS; I have a Synology RAID NAS and drives in boxes that will take over, eventually) and after years of my wife telling me how great Pandora was I finally tried it (and it is pretty nice). One goal accomplished: very easy to set up and get playing!

The sound is OK, at least to me. I have not listened long enough or hardly at all the past few months so have lost much of my basis for comparison (my Oppo broke down last fall and I haven't gotten it repaired yet). I was disappointed to read Sonos only supports 16-bit but not a killer since I have very little hi-res stuff anyway. My goals were good sound with ease-of-use since a large part of why I have not been listening to my CD collection is that, with so little time to listen, it was a hassle if I wanted to listen to say five different Maynard Ferguson songs from different albums. I used to listen to an album at a time, but anymore I tend to have a few songs in mind, often different artists and CDs, and getting up to swap CDs every few minutes just wasn't worth the effort when I was often working at the same time or only had an hour in the evening to listen. A world-wide customer base and 24/7 connectivity may be a great thing for employers, and customers appreciate the support for their time zone, but it is a lot of work for employees. Last week I picked up a 2-pack of Play 1's, one for my office and one for the family room where my wife lives, and was surprised at how good they sound for a little speaker. Would not likely ever be a primary speaker, but for casual listening and background music they are really good, and my wife likes the sound (still have to introduce her to the UI).

The speakers ("players" in Sonos-speak, which is actually more accurate) are a bit pricey, but they do include amplifiers and a network interface, so aren't really out of line if you add up the pieces and supporting technology. I have read mixed reviews about Sonos support but they were good to me before and after the sale. And the sound from the little Play 1's is better than I expected. Maggies they ain't, but they aren't bad! I kow Sonos has been compared to Bose but my very limited exposure to both has me thinking the Sonos players sound better than say the Bose Cubes. As for price, I think the various Wave players are pretty expensive for what they offer.

I plan to get a Play 5 for our basement game room for when we or the kids are down there playing pool or whatever. Unfortunately the Play 5 is the only player with a line input for the kid's iPods and such (really wish Sonos would add that to the cheaper speakers!) We had the house pre-wired for speakers but never followed through, and after ~20 years the guy who wired it is long gone and we have no hope of tracking down the wires, so Sonos is replacing that system. Bottom line is I am happy with it and wishing I had done it years ago. Would've also been fewer CDs to rip...

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1268 of 1285 Old 05-30-2015, 07:15 PM
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Joined the ranks...
Having seen your very knowledgeable postings on other threads I am quite impressed that you are using a Sonos.

FWIW, I like the system but I am not impressed with the Play:3.
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post #1269 of 1285 Old 05-30-2015, 08:27 PM
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Thanks for the kind words! May just prove I have ears of clay...

I wanted the Connect as an intro to music servers based upon my friend's strong recommendation. The ease of setup and $50 off sale on a pair of Play:1's, plus my wife's interest in something easy to use and play Pandora upstairs, led to a pair of them showing up. They sound better than I expected. I wanted something I could just plug and play; I have enough technical demands in my day job, and need more practice time, didn't want to fool with setting up a network on my own. I'm an analog guy after all, not a computer geek.

Thanks for the head's up on the 3. The Play:3 is an interesting bird; not big enough to provide stereo separation (nor is the 5, really) and apparently not much more bass than the 1. Reviews aren't great; most seem to prefer a 5 or pair of 1's instead. I was debating, but the deal on the 1's was too good to pass up and I want the line input of the 5 so the boys can plug in their iPods when they're home, plus the bigger size for the game room (open floor plan).

Thanks again - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1270 of 1285 Old 05-30-2015, 08:36 PM
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Thanks for the head's up on the 3. The Play:3 is an interesting bird; not big enough to provide stereo separation (nor is the 5, really) and apparently not much more bass than the 1. Reviews aren't great; most seem to prefer a 5 or pair of 1's instead. I was debating, but the deal on the 1's was too good to pass up and I want the line input of the 5 so the boys can plug in their iPods when they're home, plus the bigger size for the game room (open floor plan).
I have a 3 in the BR and it makes a fine clock radio The 1 that my daughter uses sounds so much better I was amazed. I have 2 Connects driving separate amps for the Kitchen and Patio and a Connect:Amp for the DR.

I really really like having synchronized music playing every where I go in the house.
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post #1271 of 1285 Old 05-30-2015, 09:15 PM
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I'm afraid after showing my wife the UI there may be more in my future, bloody things are addictive. Probably pick up another Connect for the upstairs system, then have to think about the bedroom system, aarrghhh....

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1272 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 07:59 AM
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I am considering purchasing a Playbar but probably like many wished they offered it in white. I recently asked customer service and it seems offering it in white is not in the works. Has anyone modified the Playbar with a white speaker cloth or can anyone provides suggestions on how to easily cover it so it appears white as it will sit on my white fireplace mantle?

Thanks

How the hell am I supposed to learn anything with all this yackin' going on.
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post #1273 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 09:42 AM
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I would get some sort of acoustic cloth, or any loosely-woven material (not cotton sheets, too dense; something lighter with a more open weave), and wrap the Playbar in that, taping it at the rear out of sight. Might reduce the HF a bit but your AVR can compensate (or you can turn up the treble).

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1274 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 11:26 AM
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Thanks Don,

Anyone have a source to find Play 3, Playbar power cords in white at lengths (8-12 ft) long vs. the 6 ft stock cord?

How the hell am I supposed to learn anything with all this yackin' going on.
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post #1275 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 12:08 PM
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I would look at Monoprice, PartsExpress, Radio Shack, Newark/Allied/whatever to see if they have cord in white with the right end connection. You might not find one long enough... You could also buy a white sleeve for the power cord. Or buy a white extension cord and swap ends/rewire at the speaker.

Doesn't the Play:3 come in white? If so you should be able to get a white cord but will have to add an extension cord. Still probably much cheaper if you can find a replacement at one of the online parts places.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1276 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I want the line input of the 5 so the boys can plug in their iPods when they're home, plus the bigger size for the game room (open floor plan).

Thanks again - Don

You do know that while they can certainly utilize the line in they can also play directly to any zone wirelessly with their phone.

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post #1277 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 02:01 PM
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Yes, but they still use iPods, not iPhones, for music. Their iPods do not have wireless capability, and their iTunes libraries are not on "my" network server. The "game room" is a big'ish open area in our basement so I figured a larger player would be good to have down there anyway.

I have read a lot of mixed reviews on streaming from phones; drop-outs and such seem to be a problem. No idea if that would be the case in our house as so far nobody is playing music on their phone. I have tried the SONOS Android app and it looks nice, but so far I have been controlling from a PC. My phone is dedicated to more important things, like beating me at chess...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1278 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 04:20 PM
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Yes, but they still use iPods, not iPhones, for music. Their iPods do not have wireless capability, and their iTunes libraries are not on "my" network server. The "game room" is a big'ish open area in our basement so I figured a larger player would be good to have down there anyway.

I have read a lot of mixed reviews on streaming from phones; drop-outs and such seem to be a problem. No idea if that would be the case in our house as so far nobody is playing music on their phone. I have tried the SONOS Android app and it looks nice, but so far I have been controlling from a PC. My phone is dedicated to more important things, like beating me at chess...

Ok understood

My success rate using play from phone both Android and iOS is near 100% even in the Philippines, but network issues can certainly be hard to pin down sometimes. Anyway glad you're enjoying your setup and Sonos is well executed to the point that I bought one for the wife's family in the Philippines and they love it.

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post #1279 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 06:30 PM
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I am considering purchasing a Playbar but probably like many wished they offered it in white. I recently asked customer service and it seems offering it in white is not in the works. Has anyone modified the Playbar with a white speaker cloth or can anyone provides suggestions on how to easily cover it so it appears white as it will sit on my white fireplace mantle?

Thanks
While I loved my playbar make sure you know what you are getting yourself in to. The playbar still does NOT and will NOT play DTS Audio, if you play something with DTS you will get no audio whatsoever. Yes there are some work arounds like using a Blu Ray player that will down-mix the audio.

I loved my playbar until I got a Blu-Ray player.

Oh and you should also make sure that your TV Passes out 5.1 as most do NOT and you will only get simulated Surround which is ok but no where near as good as the real think. I ended up getting an HDMI Switch that had an optical out. It worked great but took away the intended simplicity of the Soundbar which is supposed to use a single remote and your TV to switch your inputs.

Been there / done that and ended up spending about the same amount of money on a full 7.1 System instead.

Denon AVR-X7200 - Klipsch RF-82 II Fronts, RC-62 II Center, RS-52 II Surrounds & R-112SW & Four CDT-5800-C II Ceilings for an Atmos 5.1.4 Setup.
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post #1280 of 1285 Old 06-03-2015, 06:59 PM
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I replaced an entry level yamaha sound bar with a playbar in the BR. Loved it so much that I got another one to replace the LG sound bar in the LR. Got the wife to agree to 2 play 1's for "other" rooms. They ended up as surrounds in the BR, just dumb luck that I we had a Samsung DVD player to do the DTS conversion, and a TV that can output bitstream/multiple channels on the digital out. No easy way to place some play 1s in the livingroom for surround. Placement could be too far to power outlets, or the cords would be in a walkway, so just going to rock the playbar alone. Livingroom TV is mostly kids shows and movies anyways, and my daughter is too young to care about surround sound, besides, the good equipment is all in the gameroom anyways. Look for a good deal on a sonos connect to get the gameroom connected to the rest of the house, and looking at a play5 for the office/gym. I am sure I will only finish when every room has Sonos.
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post #1281 of 1285 Old 06-04-2015, 10:07 AM
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I have read about the DTS and stereo down mix issues, hard to miss those. It's not our main system and we won't be very critical. I've held off based on known limitations. However, music access, ease of use and most importantly the simple add on process for whole house audio wins out.

As always it comes down to you can enjoy something for the 80-90% it does well or be on the sidelines about the 10%-20% it doesn't. In my case the pros seem to out way the cons. For this space the benefit of easier whole house audio outways less than purist surround sound and DTS.

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post #1282 of 1285 Old 06-28-2015, 11:21 AM
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I've read the forum a couple times and searched for this but to no clear answer.

I have 6 speakers I'd like to set up on a single Sonos Connect AMP. Each pair has impedance matching volume controls.
While I may eventually get a second Connect AMP to bring 2 of the 6 speakers into another zone, for now I'll manage via the volume controls. Budget is a driving factor in this and the proximity of the 6 speakers calls for 1-2 zones.

With all that being said I am wondering how I should wire the speakers into the Sonos AMP? I've seen the 4 speaker wiring diagram. Should I simply double one of the two up? Run all 3 through the same posts? Does it matter?

Thanks in advance.
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post #1283 of 1285 Old 06-28-2015, 12:38 PM
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What impedance are the speakers?

What impedances are being matched, what volume controls are you using? I assume the volume control maintains an 8-ohm load to the amplifier (assuming 8-ohm speakers)?

There is no easy way to connect three speakers to a single amplifier channel and keep the same volume and impedance. You may have problems with loading and/or volume matching assuming typical speaker impedances.

The usual solution is a distribution amp, which you could drive with a Connect (instead of a Connect AMP).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1284 of 1285 Old 06-28-2015, 02:25 PM
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What impedance are the speakers?

What impedances are being matched, what volume controls are you using? I assume the volume control maintains an 8-ohm load to the amplifier (assuming 8-ohm speakers)?

There is no easy way to connect three speakers to a single amplifier channel and keep the same volume and impedance. You may have problems with loading and/or volume matching assuming typical speaker impedances.

The usual solution is a distribution amp, which you could drive with a Connect (instead of a Connect AMP).
Sorry I forgot to list the speakers - all 8 ohms. They are Monoprice 4104's.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

I have not yet decided on volume controls but am looking at 2 Niles (will the 50's work for me?):

http://www.amazon.com/Niles-VCS50K-I.../dp/B0088B0C2Y
OR
http://www.amazon.com/Niles-VCS100K-...MPAFWSA17MKSTB


I understand the distribution AMP solution. Thinking at this point if I can't do this successfully, I'll simply not connect 2 of the speakers for now and wait to purchase another Connect AMP. 4 of the speakers are in the kitchen/LR area and 2 are on the back deck. I can hold off on the back deck if I had to but still hoping it will work with 6. As wired I need to install the volume controls anyhow unless I hardwire the boxes and put the plain cover plate over them... That might be an option and I could apply the $ saved from the volume controls to another Connect AMP.
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post #1285 of 1285 Old 06-29-2015, 11:23 AM
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Sorry I forgot to list the speakers - all 8 ohms. They are Monoprice 4104's.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

I have not yet decided on volume controls but am looking at 2 Niles (will the 50's work for me?):

http://www.amazon.com/Niles-VCS50K-I.../dp/B0088B0C2Y
OR
http://www.amazon.com/Niles-VCS100K-...MPAFWSA17MKSTB


I understand the distribution AMP solution. Thinking at this point if I can't do this successfully, I'll simply not connect 2 of the speakers for now and wait to purchase another Connect AMP. 4 of the speakers are in the kitchen/LR area and 2 are on the back deck. I can hold off on the back deck if I had to but still hoping it will work with 6. As wired I need to install the volume controls anyhow unless I hardwire the boxes and put the plain cover plate over them... That might be an option and I could apply the $ saved from the volume controls to another Connect AMP.
I have decided to go with the distribution box for now and save the $$. May introduce another CONNECT AMP later but this will work for now - thanks for the advice.
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Reply Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming

Tags
Sonos Playbar Tv Soundbar And Wireless Speaker For Streaming Music , Marantz Pm6004 Integrated Amplifier
Gear in this thread - Pm6004 by PriceGrabber.com



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