Dune HD Base 3.0 and Prime 3.0 on Sigma 8642 in Q4 2009 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 6075 Old 09-07-2009, 11:11 AM
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Thank you for all the replies.

So capability of macrovision is no Pro for Dune as it is completely irrelevant.

So the press release of HDI announcing its Dune 3.0 and its superior capability of Macrovision despite C-200 is clearly,..hm,... *****censored*****
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post #62 of 6075 Old 09-07-2009, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

I've played with the Oppo. If network media playback (or file playback) is not a big draw for you then the Oppo wins hands down. The Oppo is just a beautiful piece of machine. The Dunes are great for file playback and for network playback but they will not compare to the look of the Oppo.

Thanks. Yeah, the Oppo looks great, but actually both network media playback AND BR play are both important to me. My issue is whether to get:

Separates: [Dune HD Base 3.0 + Oppo BD 83]

or

All-in-One: [Dune HD Prime 3.0]


The key factor is how much better as a player the Oppo would be Vs. the Prime. Would it be enough better to pay an additional ~$400, basically?

I'm thinking that with BR alone, there might not be any difference. It would only be with all the old DVDs lying around that the Oppo's VP would shine (unless, that is, the Prime has at least decent VP capability.)
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post #63 of 6075 Old 09-07-2009, 04:58 PM
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oppo with anchor bay video processing (same as in their dvdo products) will crush the processing in 864x chips for those who are fussy about video quality.

only you can decide if it matters to you or not

i know some people who claim that the existing 863x processing of video is perfectly fine for them.................it sure isn't for me.
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post #64 of 6075 Old 09-07-2009, 05:51 PM
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Can logitech Harmony one remote be used to control dune players? (besides the learning option)
I haven't come across any dune devices that can be controlled by logitech harmony.
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post #65 of 6075 Old 09-07-2009, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyren View Post

I dont know what all this fuss is about. Macrovision is only for composite and s-video outputs. It does not affect component at all. Component is analog, but it doesnt use the same standards that composite and s-video does. Its completely different.

he-he. is it told this way by PCH?
INCORRECT!

Check this:
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

Citation:
"Macrovision was not present on analog component video output of early players, but is now required on component output"

Any more questions?

Obviously, sooner or later PCH will have a conflict with Macrovision and will need to stop output of DVD/Blu-ray video to _all_ the analog output: composite/S-video and(!) component... as simple as that!
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post #66 of 6075 Old 09-07-2009, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmp6 View Post

Can logitech Harmony one remote be used to control dune players? (besides the learning option)
I haven't come across any dune devices that can be controlled by logitech harmony.

according to the specs, Dune 3.0 (both Prime and Base) will support Z-Wave till the end of this year (the corresp. option will be available). It means, that yes, it should be possible to use some Logitech Harmony models (the ones which support Z-Wave, like 890, 895, 1000, 1100) to control Dune 3.0 players not only via IR, but also with RF signal (i.e. Z-Wave).
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post #67 of 6075 Old 09-07-2009, 11:16 PM
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Interesting again :-)
Looks like Kostya got a point.

However, when reading the complete description on

http://books.google.de/books?id=ikxu...ponent&f=false

page 5-15

this is valid and requested only for DVD-players.

I may be wrong, but the C-200 is not sold as a DVD-player but as network-device, and so does not need to provide macrovision on component-output.

----------------------
"You have the wrong code above it is deemed a network device and therefore 0%, another reason NOT to include a BD ROMWink

Dear Customer,

We do declare all the PCH products in International Trade Customs tariff
number : 8517620090 "Other apparatus for the transmission or reception of
voice, images or other data, including apparatus for communication in a
wired or wireless network (such as a local or wide area network)" "
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post #68 of 6075 Old 09-07-2009, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticc View Post

Interesting again :-)
Looks like Kostya got a point.

However, when reading the complete description on
...

page 5-15

this is valid and requested only for DVD-players.

I may be wrong, but the C-200 is not sold as a DVD-player but as network-device, and so does not need to provide macrovision on component-output.
...

yea, Chinese manufacturers always think they are very clever and can bypass any regulations in some clever way.
I may be wrong, but I think that for the Macrovision guys it will be enough if this player is sold by _any_ reseller with a DVD or Blu-ray drive inside (i.e. this reseller does an upgrade) and that it will really output unprotected analog video from any protected DVD or Blu-ray disc...
Such a case could be enough for both the reseller and the manufacturer, I believe (as obviously the software supporting such cracking is not done by a reseller )
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post #69 of 6075 Old 09-08-2009, 12:53 AM
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So I think this question won`t be answered here by us.

Whether it is tricking with "where and when Macrovision has to be or not" or tweaking (can`t see any cracking here) seems not to be answered as easily as I thought.

Kostya, you are very sure in`words, however I dont think there is reason for, but guessing why.

Let`s see whether some official statement on this will pop up.
Only then we will know

Surely I do not trust HDIs announcement, it is clearly "against competitor"-driven and no reliable souce.
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post #70 of 6075 Old 09-08-2009, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticc View Post

So I think this question won`t be answered here by us.

Whether it is tricking with "where and when Macrovision has to be or not" or tweaking (can`t see any cracking here) seems not to be answered as easily as I thought.

Kostya, you are very sure in`words, however I dont think there is reason for, but guessing why.

Let`s see whether some official statement on this will pop up.
Only then we will know

Surely I do not trust HDIs announcement, it is clearly "against competitor"-driven and no reliable souce.

interest of HDI is obvious of course. What I'm telling here is just a logic based on facts everybody can find in Internet.
As I'm a mathematician, the conclusions are obvious for me,. But if anybody can see any problem in this logic, please tell me where I'm wrong...

I think anyway everybody already tired from this topic. Let's return back to Dune products here...
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post #71 of 6075 Old 09-08-2009, 10:52 AM
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There may be things beyond logic :-)
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post #72 of 6075 Old 09-08-2009, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Thanks. Yeah, the Oppo looks great, but actually both network media playback AND BR play are both important to me. My issue is whether to get:

Separates: [Dune HD Base 3.0 + Oppo BD 83]

or

All-in-One: [Dune HD Prime 3.0]


The key factor is how much better as a player the Oppo would be Vs. the Prime. Would it be enough better to pay an additional ~$400, basically?

I'm thinking that with BR alone, there might not be any difference. It would only be with all the old DVDs lying around that the Oppo's VP would shine (unless, that is, the Prime has at least decent VP capability.)

For me, if the picture quality of the BDs are equal (and they pretty much should be) and it does the things it advertises, then I’m going to relegate my Oppo BDP-83 to the bedroom. I don’t feel like adding another switch to my setup, so I can have 2 devices using the 5.1 Analogs on my receiver. I thought I’d like to have the SACD/DVD-A options, but it pales against the media player/Network options. I need a media player that can play my “backed up” BDs. I also have to dump my WD media player because it doesn’t work well with the BDs and it didn’t have component out. I was thinking of a Egreat EG-M34A, but now they said NetFlix streaming soon, I'll just stick with the Dune.

I just hope it load as fast as the BDP-83. That was a major plus.
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post #73 of 6075 Old 09-09-2009, 12:28 AM
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My thoughts. 90% of PCH users use HDMI.

there is no logic buy 300USD device and use it for SD SIGNALS..


99% of PCH users just buy it for HD videos.. nothing else.


for SD users don't need to spend such huge amount of money. just buy DVD plays with USB DIVx etc. support for 60USD



Br.
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post #74 of 6075 Old 09-09-2009, 05:21 AM
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Is there any sense watch Blu-ray on composite
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post #75 of 6075 Old 09-09-2009, 07:42 AM
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Topic was not on composite alone, also on component, and that makes sense.
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post #76 of 6075 Old 09-09-2009, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostya View Post

he-he. is it told this way by PCH?
INCORRECT!

PCH just announed their response on the NMT forums.

"Component uses CGMS copy protection."

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/sh...1496#pid241496

However, werners post, the one before that one, stated:

"i wont go into details now because this would help HDI Wink, our solution is carefully checked with legal department and for sure there wont be any issue with macrovision and so not with component as i said!"

which kind of worries me about how legitimate it is.
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post #77 of 6075 Old 09-09-2009, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticc View Post

Topic was not on composite alone, also on component, and that makes sense.

The Talk is only about composite,
Component is working and protected with CGMS,
and there is no legal issue..


Br.
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post #78 of 6075 Old 09-09-2009, 11:13 PM
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Why, oh why do we keep talking about the PCH C-200 on the Dune Prime 3.0 thread? They have a perfectly good working thread here. Just asking....
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post #79 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 05:17 AM
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@Killroy
Why talking about C-200 in a thread about Dune? - Hmm, thinking,..still thinking,... oh yes,... HDI claiming Macrovision being a superior feature compared to C-200.
Leads to discussion whether HDI makes a point here.
As easy, isn`t it?

Result: No, it isn`t. Commercial DVD over component is no issue for C-200, so supporting Macrovision by HDI gives no added value.
Isn`t it all about comparison between competitive devices to make a choice?
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post #80 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 06:59 AM
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So let's talk about flash memory...

How come there is such a big difference between the 2?
C-200 has 256MB, and hdi 3.0 have 1GB+?

What does the '+' means by the way, it's upgradeable?
What can we expect from such a difference? Is it because flash lite 3 or netflix futur support is planned to take a lot of space?

Also what will flash lite support mean for us? A new interface, user apps?
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post #81 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pork-epik View Post

How come there is such a big difference between the 2? C-200 has 256MB, and hdi 3.0 have 1GB+?

You need 1GB for BD-Live support. So with the C-200, user has to add it.

Quote:


Also what will flash lite support mean for us? A new interface, user apps?

Nicer, faster user interfaces primarily. Helps with accessing some, but not all, websites.

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post #82 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 10:57 AM
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Oh, so actually it's the same memory for both...
Reading HDi press release, it makes more sense now:
Quote:
9. Memory
Higher system flash memory (at least 1GB) allows to include much more features in the future with firmware upgrades. Specialized BD-Live memory (at least 1GB) allows to use full function of any Blu-ray disc w/o adding any aditional storage by user.

Also i did not realize that current hdi players had already a web browser included, i see the interest for flash now.

Thanks kjack :] (pretty nice to have someone from Sigma here )
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post #83 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack View Post

You need 1GB for BD-Live support. So with the C-200, user has to add it.

Nicer, faster user interfaces primarily. Helps with accessing some, but not all, websites.

Hi Kjack,

Do you know when will 8642 be mass produced?
Is 8642 A stable now or it will be Rev B for mass production?

I asked since China Hualu(Dune's supplier) is saying they are looking at the end of Oct to be the earliest for mass produce 8642 player.
Meanwhile Contel Shenzheng doesn't even have a plan for 42 yet.

Thanks.
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post #84 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 02:36 PM
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According to Sigma Design brochure:

xxx.sigmadesigns.com/Products/SMP8640/pdf_files/bluray8642_btc_br.pdf
(I can't post link yet so, replace xxx with www)

"Macrovision copy protection on 480i, 576i, 480p and 576p analog outputs". While component is listed as "Analog YPbPr video". So to me that say Macrovision does not apply to component output.

Of course kjack from Sigma can give a definite answer.
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post #85 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjdhd View Post

Do you know when will 8642 be mass produced?
Is 8642 A stable now or it will be Rev B for mass production?

It's in production.

Quote:
I asked since China Hualu (Dune's supplier) is saying they are looking at the end of Oct to be the earliest for mass produce 8642 player.

They are waiting for our final firmware. Getting it to pass BDA certification (which we do to ensure our customers can get BDA certification easily) is rather challenging for non-technical reasons. The 8642 player in our demo room has been running 24/7 rock solid for weeks now.

Keith Jack
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post #86 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodduck View Post

"Macrovision copy protection on 480i, 576i, 480p and 576p analog outputs". While component is listed as "Analog YPbPr video". So to me that say Macrovision does not apply to component output. Of course kjack from Sigma can give a definite answer.

I wrote the brochure...

Macrovision applies to any 480i, 576i, 480p or 576p analog output -- composite, s-video, and component.

Keith Jack
Sigma Designs
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Blog: http://www.keithjack.net
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post #87 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack View Post

I wrote the brochure...

Macrovision applies to any 480i, 576i, 480p or 576p analog output -- composite, s-video, and component.

So, technically, if popcorn hour upscales all video to 720p or 1080p through component (assuming you have an HDTV) before its outputted, there is no need for macrovision? Its needed only for SDTVs?
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post #88 of 6075 Old 09-10-2009, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyren View Post

So, technically, if popcorn hour upscales all video to 720p or 1080p through component (assuming you have an HDTV) before its outputted, there is no need for macrovision? Its needed only for SDTVs?

From what I understood it does not matter whether you are upscaling or not.
Whatever the guys at Syabas have done, they ensure there won`t be any drawback of lack of macrovision what belongs to component.
However they also clearly state on their webpage "no playback of protected (commercial) material over composite/S-Video.
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post #89 of 6075 Old 09-12-2009, 06:55 AM
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Sure don't work on Component for me
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post #90 of 6075 Old 09-13-2009, 01:05 AM
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Does anybody know if the dune hd base 3.0 will do true-hd and dts-hd ma to multichannel l-pcm ?
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