Official GOOGLE TV Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 09:48 AM
 
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I'm subbing to this thread, so I can track how it goes, but I just don't see it. When this all started, I hoped for more, and that Google would revolutionize the VOD movement (Apple just tried with 99 cent rentals but was shot down by a couple of studios). What we end up with, is ANOTHER box with useless apps, and instead of being a store front for VOD, it just nicely searches to tell you where to spend you VOD money at.

At the cost, I'd see buying a ROKU+ATV, then using the left over $100 and take your girl out to a nice dinner. But, we'll see, I still have faith in Google.
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post #452 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 10:54 AM
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Just found this on Gizmodo. Gives me confidence that GTV will soon be able to play any media format you could want.

From Gizmodo:

VPlayer is an Android equivalent of VLC - VPlayer offers support for virtually any video format you're likely to want (or need)DivX, Xvid, FLV, MKV, and WMV, just to start. As mentioned, it's only an alpha, so might be on the crashy side, but you've got nothing to lose if format diversity is part of your life

------------------------------
TV: Samsung LNT4671F
BD-DVD: Oppo BDP-83
Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR606
Logitech Revue (Google TV)
Cisco 8640HDC DVR (v. ODN 4.0.2_4)
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post #453 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valdeztke View Post

Until Google TV offers Utorrent support

It will never "offer" that, but there are apps in the android market place which do that.

If a carpenter makes a door he should get money every time someone uses it - he's also an "artist".
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post #454 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valdeztke View Post

Until Google TV offers Utorrent support I have no use of it (just for TV shows - I still buy BDs). Also, if you are like me and refuse to pay $100.00 a month for cable - it again serves very little purpose. I have an HDTV and an old HC1500 connected to 2 PCs. More and more TV content is being streamed live over the web (ie ESPN3 really has stepped it up - both live and archived video).

So you're saying it's okay to steal TV shows but not Blu-ray content?
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post #455 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post


So you're saying it's okay to steal TV shows but not Blu-ray content?

Is it really "stealing" if you merely download a primetime show that is otherwise available OTA, in HD, for free?

In that way, uTorrent acts as nothing more than a virtual antenna.

Just sayin'...
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post #456 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:03 PM
 
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Yepp, without the ads. So yes, it is illegal.
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post #457 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:06 PM
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Possibly, but I use the in the same way and compress AVCHD video into H.264 (MKV, AC3/DTS). I am considering changing everything to MP4, but that is another discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

"For example, if I use Handbrake, it doesn't play. If I use Ripbot, then it plays fine. "

Nearly everyone using Handbrake is doing some kind of compression. Ripbot, by it's default nature, won't compress. I'm going to guess that's explaining your issues.

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post #458 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Yepp, without the ads. So yes, it is illegal.

I don't think stripping the ads makes any difference. The content owner is going to say any uTorrent distribution is re-transmission or re-broadcast of their content even if you keep the ads in place.

I can receive exactly one network station on an antenna, so cutting the cord is not reasonable at this time. When the networks get to the point where they can provide content subscriptions over the net and eliminate the local affiliates and cable/sat providers then a la carte TV will be here.

I have reduced my Dish bill to $54 a month, but that's the lowest I can go with any of their normal packages.
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post #459 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Yepp, without the ads. So yes, it is illegal.

Then watching DVRed OTA content and fast-forwarding through ads is illegal too, right?
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post #460 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:17 PM
 
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It's their content, they make the rules... Just like if you have a weed eater I want to borrow. You make the rules.

Until someone can make studio deals with the likes of CBS and NBC, for cheaper downloads and streaming, we'll be stuck with Dish and Directv. ESPN's getting $4+ per sub, they aren't going to move away from cable too quickly.

Until then, we keep getting reiterations of the same design, that do basically the same thing (some more, some less). I have a BR player, a TiVo and a Vudu box that do damn near the same things. Now throw in Roku, ATV and GTV, it's getting damn ridiculous.

We have a buncha people that want a lexus, and these guys keep pumping out malibu's and taurus's. Until the studios get ungreedy (never), it'll stay that way. Over at DBS talk, the Directv insider is quick to note that channels aren't just gonna start streaming you full content, because they know where the bread is buttered.

I'd be more than happy to pay $70/month for a HD VOD service, with everything, but the problem rolls in at sports. ESPN works these deals where they get $4 for EVERY sub, they aren't going to even go near ala carte.

I would be so happy with a service like Hulu, if it gave me everything, for a good price, and forced me to watch a couple of commercials. Here is the problem, Hulu Plus doesn't offer much, add more, and then all of a sudden, you are paying Hulu the same as Directv. You aren't going to just drop your cable service at $70/month, and get the same stuff for $20. They are actually business men.
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post #461 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:26 PM
 
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Back on the GTV subject. I see where they have an HBO deal. Now, if they can get Hulu Plus, and that service picks up, I'll be very interested. All I need is someone to offer HBO series in HD (up to this point the only VOD they give is SD) and Nat Geo programming, and I could save some money every month by downgrading Directv.
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post #462 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

I would be so happy with a service like Hulu, if it gave me everything, for a good price, and forced me to watch a couple of commercials. Here is the problem, Hulu Plus doesn't offer much, add more, and then all of a sudden, you are paying Hulu the same as Directv. You aren't going to just drop your cable service at $70/month, and get the same stuff for $20. They are actually business men.

They could make much more per subscriber by offering their content direct to the consumer. But they would jeopardize their relationships -- and be in contract violation -- with broadcast affiliates, cable and satellite companies. And in the end, the math just doesn't work out even if you pay more individually than the big content delivery companies pay.

The highest fee for carrying content is charged by ESPN ... something like $4 a subscriber. In contrast, the networks are trying to get their content per subscriber up to $1. Combine that with "must carry" rules in the contract ... you MUST have ESPN if you carry ABC, etc., ... and the cost to the consumer is inflated far beyond what they would pay a la carte. You pay for all those channels you don't watch.

My viewing habits do not include sports. But if I paid $2 each for the networks and cable channels I actually watch, my bill would be from $24 to $30. And the content providers would earn more than twice as much on me than they do with the middlemen in the way.

Even if there weren't contracts in the way, you are right about them being businessmen. Dish Network delivers 14 million customers for the content. And those customers "pay" even if they never watch ESPN, Lifetime Network, or some other "All Men are Pigs Woman's Channel". So I am not competing with Dish paying them less than $1 for ABC and me paying them $2, I am competing with Dish paying them $14 million and me paying them $2.
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post #463 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fshagan View Post


Even if there weren't contracts in the way, you are right about them being businessmen. Dish Network delivers 14 million customers for the content. And those customers "pay" even if they never watch ESPN, Lifetime Network, or some other "All Men are Pigs Woman's Channel". So I am not competing with Dish paying them less than $1 for ABC and me paying them $2, I am competing with Dish paying them $14 million and me paying them $2.


Bingo! Say 2million outta that 14 million want ESPN. Is ESPN gonna go for $4 times 2million, or $4 times 14 million. Thats why all these channels negotiate to be in the bottom tier.

Plus, all these programmers market suits instead of single channels. If they went ala carte, you couldn't just get ESPN, or USA, you'd have to pay for ALL the Disney/ESPN channels, or ALL the NBC Universal channels.
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post #464 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

Is it really "stealing" if you merely download a primetime show that is otherwise available OTA, in HD, for free?

In that way, uTorrent acts as nothing more than a virtual antenna.

Just sayin'...

Yes, it's copyrighted material.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

Then watching DVRed OTA content and fast-forwarding through ads is illegal too, right?

Watching DVR'ed content in your home is considered fair use, "sharing" it with 100,000 of your "close friends" is copyright infringement and is illegal.
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post #465 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:50 PM
 
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I wonder if Google/Hulu/Apple could work out deals that all studios would go for? Say, for a subscription price, even with ads, making ALL TV shows available on a VOD service, 3-6 months after they finish airing live. I could go for this actually. A few I have to pick up a year later, on Blu-ray after they aired.
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post #466 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

Then watching DVRed OTA content and fast-forwarding through ads is illegal too, right?

Forget the advertisments, they're irrelevant (but yes, some studios, argue ad skipping is theft). The copyright holders, by federal law, get to decide what happens with their content in the US. Now they're clearly willing to sell ad-free HD content. $2.99 a pop ($.99 to rent a few things) at the iTunes store, varying prices for BD releases and cmmercial streamers. They can be paid by advertisers, provders (Dish, Comcast, Verizon, Netflix etc.) or you but they expect to be paid.
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post #467 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 View Post

Just found this on Gizmodo. Gives me confidence that GTV will soon be able to play any media format you could want.

From Gizmodo:

VPlayer is an Android equivalent of VLC - VPlayer offers support for virtually any video format you're likely to want (or need)—DivX, Xvid, FLV, MKV, and WMV, just to start. As mentioned, it's only an alpha, so might be on the crashy side, but you've got nothing to lose if format diversity is part of your life

arcmedia and rockplayer have been around a while and also have pretty extensive format support. give this thing some time and i think it's going to be pretty cool and worthy of placement in many homes.
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post #468 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 02:38 PM
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I am on the fence with this product. I could see if being amazing or frustrating.

The main factor for me is how exactly it interfaces with my cable box. I understand I can type in something to search for. However, will I still be able to scroll some sort of guide to see what is on or would I just have to switch to my regular cable box to do that.

I admit I typically know what I want to watch, but there are times when I just want to see what is on for a few minutes while I eat or am focusing on something else.

While I think the search function is great I think it is just as important to be able to browse with ease.
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post #469 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Player2 View Post

I am on the fence with this product. I could see if being amazing or frustrating.

The main factor for me is how exactly it interfaces with my cable box. I understand I can type in something to search for. However, will I still be able to scroll some sort of guide to see what is on or would I just have to switch to my regular cable box to do that.

I admit I typically know what I want to watch, but there are times when I just want to see what is on for a few minutes while I eat or am focusing on something else.

While I think the search function is great I think it is just as important to be able to browse with ease.

@ Player2: I picked my Sony up this morning at Best Buy and can tell you first hand you're covered by the "What's On" section seen on the left hand side of the home screen. It pulls in from your service provider- apparently not just Dish because I'm using OTA- and breaks it all out. You can see the full channel listing, or by genre/category. The settings give you the option of pulling this info from TV Guide or Broadcaster as far as I can see. It literally is what's on right now so to see future shows you would have to default to Guide or search.

Other points to make- PIP apparently only works with video from provider, for example you can't PIP a video in Netflix or the Media Player.

The only real problem I've had is the TV not allowing me to change volume while playing a video in browser- Netflix and Media Player are fine.
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post #470 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 06:32 PM
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Other randomness: tv.clicker.com is really useful in this setup, didn't know it existed before today- maybe it's one of the new websites optimized for TV? (I did find it under Spotlight section) It has search and provides link to watch movie/episode. One of the sites often linked is Fancast which apparently just proxies into Hulu without any of the mess? I was clearly watching a Hulu video but I wasn't blocked.

Missing from the "Spotlight" section are TBS and TNT which can clearly be seen at google.com/tv

This remote really needed to be backlit. Oh well that's all the random thoughts I have right now- back to having fun.
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post #471 of 1827 Old 10-17-2010, 07:09 PM
 
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A review with a lot of photos. The conclusions seem to be mixed, but the software can be improved.http://reviewhorizon.com/2010/10/sony-google-tv-review/
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post #472 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 04:07 AM
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Changing the "user agent" setting in Chrome for Google TV to access Hulu.com - http://gadgetwhore.org/2010/10/hulu-...ogle-it-works/
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post #473 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtthwgrms View Post

@ Player2: I picked my Sony up this morning at Best Buy and can tell you first hand you're covered by the "What's On" section seen on the left hand side of the home screen. It pulls in from your service provider- apparently not just Dish because I'm using OTA- and breaks it all out. You can see the full channel listing, or by genre/category. The settings give you the option of pulling this info from TV Guide or Broadcaster as far as I can see. It literally is what's on right now so to see future shows you would have to default to Guide or search.

Other points to make- PIP apparently only works with video from provider, for example you can't PIP a video in Netflix or the Media Player.

The only real problem I've had is the TV not allowing me to change volume while playing a video in browser- Netflix and Media Player are fine.


Good to hear. That feature would be important to me, but I hope they still add a guide of some sort. It would be nice to be like what movies are coming on this channel today and be able to easily scroll through the day.
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post #474 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 06:02 AM
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I purchased the Sony NSZ-GT1 yesterday. In going through the setup process it asks who your cable or satellite provider is. The next wants you to test codes for your dvr or set top box I suppose. But none of them will change the channel on my dvr. I have the Moxi 3 Tuner dvr retail unit. What is really weird is it asks the type of tv and stereo receiver that I have. But it doesn't ask anything about my dvr. On Logitech's webpage it shows the dvr's that have been tested the Moxi is one of them. Anyone have any idea's?
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post #475 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 View Post

I'm with you on this. I doubt I'll be using my Android phone as my primary remote. But because it is free, I'll install it for fun.

The big question I see is what type of remote should be used for Google TV. My plan is to use my Harmony Universal remote as my primary remote, but when I need to type something for web surfing or search, I'll use the mini Logitech keyboard remote. (Yes I paid the extra $130 for it. Not happy about the price) I could possibly use my iPad, but probably won't.

What are the alternative remotes for a Google TV? Using a regular style remote and an onscreen keyboard? Does Google TV already have an on screen keyboard? If not, couldn't an app be created to do it? I personally don't like on screen keyboards. Can a qwerty keyboard be crammed into a single handed remote? Wouldn't that be too small? I'm sure companies are working on this problem right now. I personally don't care for the bigger keyboard.

Voice Commands will nullify most of this argument if it is implemented properly.
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post #476 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Gagnon View Post

Voice Commands will nullify most of this argument if it is implemented properly.

I am going to have to disagree. I can not imagine using voice commandes to control my TV.

Imagine you are just browsing a menu...I do not want to have to say things like 'down, down, scroll left...etc' I would rather just push a button.

Unfortunatly the more and more I think about Google TV the less excited I get.
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post #477 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Player2 View Post

I am going to have to disagree. I can not imagine using voice commandes to control my TV.

Imagine you are just browsing a menu...I do not want to have to say things like 'down, down, scroll left...etc' I would rather just push a button.

Unfortunatly the more and more I think about Google TV the less excited I get.

The use of voice commands was specifically in reference to "when I need to type something for web surfing or search" and not, for basic menu navigation. Android is already very, very good at this type of application.

I would also expect to see things like the voice actions recently added to Google search on phones. Things like "watch Dexter" or "list to The Arcade Fire."

This is a harbinger of things to come as remote controls are obsoleted in the not too distant future.
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post #478 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 12:13 PM
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So now the USB mass storage limit is upped to 895GB, still must be FAT,FAT16 or FAT32. A little better, but not much since I was hoping to just plug in a 2TB external drive.
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post #479 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 12:55 PM
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I think majority of the people will only use the remote, regardless of the quality of the voice commands. I believe this product is for more tech savy folks and not your average consumer. Most likely, the average consumer who buys this will have grand aspirations of surfing the web and viewing any movie or show on the fly, when they want, and how they want. Unfortunately, they will have a hard time figuring out how to do all this as easy as they had done it before the device. What I consider more tech savy is everyone who is reading this post, or folks who have already jumped into the HTPC or like type of hardware.

We are talking about a fairly large transition going on right now, from people watching live content to watching static content. I am sure if you look at the statistics, you will see a larger adoption of folks presently focused on purchasing HD TVs and BR players. A few purchase a Roku, and the rest take advantage of some of the static content currently available on their PS3/Xbox360 or Cable/ Satellite provider. The next transition is for people to meld what they do on the computer with what what they do when they watch TV. The major content providers and studios are pushing for the transition towards more static content, but they can't totally move away from live TV until their largest consumer base makes this transition with them. They want this transition to occcur since it typically produces greater margins on their products, its allows them to have more control on the content, and allows them to release a wider range of content at a greater rate. This is where GoogleTV comes in. This is a device that tries to combine both worlds and make it easy for the end user to navigate, use,and adopt.

The adoption rate will be slow in the beginning, and I personally believe this is due many folks reluctance to such a transition and more so PRICE.

Let's look at the younger generation of users whom would definitely pick this up and quickly learn how to use this product. I would assume that this group of people would be more inclined to watch static content. In reality those folks would rather pick up a PS3 or Xbox so they can do gaming and get gain access to some of the basic static viewing options. How many college students, recent grads, or early 20 year olds do you know that actually pay $300-$400 dollars for content aggregator or BR player that doesn't do gaming? How can they also afford the $800+ dollar TVs to play it on? Oh, and who is paying for this?? This is just my thought and a little off topic to the post I am responding to.

The final thing that made me think about is is when I put my wife to the test. I call this WAF test, or better known as Wife Acceptance Factor. I can't talk in regards to the Revue, but I can regarding Sony NSZ-GT1 GootleTV device.

I have transitioned her from watching live TV, to watching DVR TV, to also watching content off of a PS3 or Xbox360. I almost got her to use my HTPC regularly and more recently Boxxee, but she now never touches the HTPC. The problem is the transition and the ease of use of each of these components. She now has accepted a Harmony remote as her main interface control device, which ultimately runs macros on the back end to select each of the things she wants to do or watch. I recently put her to the test with the Sony NSZ-GT1 BR Google TV, and showed her all the nice things that it has to offer. Within a few minutes of her using it, her first comment was, "The remote sucks and how much did you pay for this?" Next comment was, "All I want is a simple way to watch TV, Play BR, and watch Netflix." Hmmm... Isn't that the intent of this Google TV box?

I hope and believe that once the ease of use is increased for the general population and more content is provided on a device like the GTV, then the adoption rate will grow and the transition will finally occur.

For the interim, a user will need to use a RF remote, like the Harmony 900 or 1100 to be able to easily transition between the various viewing options, and not worry about hitting multiple buttons to achieve a simple function. Today voice will be tough for most users due to ambient noise misleading the GTV device to do what you always want it to do. This is similar to what you experience when you use Google Search on an Android device, in semi loud environment. I am also not accounting for all the different languages and dialects of that language. Google is definitely one of the leaders with this, and hopefully will figure this out soon. For now, Logitech will need to release a similar remote with a Qwerty key pad and possibly a mic, or you will have to use both remotes. The Logitech RF remote for navigation and the original included one for web surfing, searching, and typing things in general.

Are you willing to pay the money for the additional RF remote and have faith that the Voice Command function will work well? I did the initial purchase because the product seemed exciting, but now I may return it and wait for it to mature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagnon View Post

Voice Commands will nullify most of this argument if it is implemented properly.

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post #480 of 1827 Old 10-18-2010, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupismaximus View Post

I think majority of the people will only use the remote, regardless of the quality of the voice commands. I believe this product is for more tech savy folks and not your average consumer.

I have all my media, TV recordings/BR rips/Online streaming accessible and sort-ible. I have three different TVs ranging from 32 to 120 and all three of them access the same feeds such that pressing Stop in one room then pressing Play in the next allows me to continue watching from where I left off just a few rooms back. Etc.etc

In short, I am not the average consumer.

That said, I have *absolutely zero* desire to talk to my TV in lue of just using a good old fashioned remote.

Voice command is not a J6P vs. Tech Enthusiast devide.

-Suntan
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