Official GOOGLE TV Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1827 Old 10-01-2010, 10:45 AM
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Logitech's GoogleTV "line of products" (plural) press event is at 3pm EST on October 6th. See here. I'm assuming they'll have more than just the Revue.

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post #92 of 1827 Old 10-01-2010, 04:18 PM
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Sony has been sending out invites to press informing about the event taking place in NYC on October 12.
The NSX-GT1 will be powered by Intel's Atom processor

Source:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/09/3...on-october-12/

http://hdguru.com/google-tv-by-sony-...433/#more-2433
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post #93 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 10:46 AM
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Looks like GoogleTV will support Netflix, Amazon and will connect to Dish Network DVRs (http://www.google.com/tv/features.html), but any idea if they will allow streaming from local network (Samba or UPnP) or other DVRs (TiVo, DTVPal, etc)?
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post #94 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 11:02 AM
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^^^ can that theoretically be handled through a third party app? Are there any current Android apps that offer local cataloging and playback?
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post #95 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 11:54 AM
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It looks to me from the demo -- which is excellent by the way and shows Google is not messing around, but that also everyone is not saying yes (no surprise there, overall they are getting 3rd party traction) -- that the device is explicitly not a video/media streamer.

The only mention of anything "yours" is photos and for all we know, those need to be Picasa-ed.

Now, here comes the but.... The device is obviously extensible via the Android apps platform. I think we can agree that one can port VLC to the GoogleTV. It's been ported to iPhone and presumably GoogleTV has similar processing power / RAM, while it doubtless has enough graphics horsepower.

So, will someone produce a VLC (or equivalent) that streams your .mkvs or .isos to your TV? Keeping in mind they might also have to provide the software to read off a network share -- which is something GoogleTV probably does not do at this point -- it's not entirely a given. Is it likely? Well, perhaps.

But I think it's important to realize something: This is not a device to stream your media. It's a device to stream their media in ways that are convenient to you. It's conceived of along similar lines to AppleTV, but with bigger plans, more content (at least currently, time will tell), and its really about the Android ecosystem. Someone consuming media on their Android phone will love this the way someone with an iPad will learn to love AirPlay.

I can't help but wonder why Apple TV doesn't already have "channels" composed on some of these same web sites, Pandora, etc. Did Apple announce this before it was fully baked because they knew Google was coming and wanted to steal some thunder? Is the theory that $99 is so cheap it opens up a universe of possibilities that the Logitech offerings will not?

GoogleTV built in is obviously very powerful, but will probably not have much more than low-single-digits of the market for years (think about the speed at which TVs are replaced and understand that in the short run virtually no TVs will have it, and even over time they might not get much beyond a small portion of the replacement market). So the box is really important. And at $299, the box is really expensive if, say, your primary goal is streaming Netflix, having a basic rental box, etc.

Nevertheless, I find the recent demo 100x better at explaining the box than all the previous kerfuffle. And I'm much more interested in seeing what Logitech shows off than I was a week ago.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #96 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 12:18 PM
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Is Logitech the only company allowed to make a standalone box that runs googleTV?

-Suntan
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post #97 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Is Logitech the only company allowed to make a standalone box that runs googleTV?

-Suntan

Logitech is just the first one to take it to market. Goog says it'll be open source and Others are sure to create their own boxes and likely drive the costs down--similar to the android phones.
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post #98 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 05:45 PM
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Sony is already demoing TVs with GTV built in. Others will no doubt follow soon.
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post #99 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 06:05 PM
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I really don't mean to sound like a hater, but based on what has been made public so far, this thing has fail written all over it. The highlights:

* Expensive. Buy a new Sony TV or a $300 Logitech box.

* No streaming of your own content. The fact that this box gets a pass from so many people while the Apple TV is bashed because it can't do 1080p or support xyz file format shows how much Apple hate there is.

* The "type in a search box" to find anything approach works great on my computer for finding obscure things on the internet, but that isn't the primary approach I want to use for finding stuff to watch on TV tonight. And I *know* that my wife and father-in-law would want to throw the remote at the TV. Or I guess I should say that they'll be throwing a keyboard at the TV.

* The apps/channels is neat. Roku does that, too. But, as with the last point, this could be a mess in terms of usability for the average person. Having different apps with completely different UI's? Yeah, that will be family-friendly.

Based on what I'm seeing so far, this is a non-starter. Hopefully they have some surprises up their sleeves that they haven't revealed yet (mostly in terms of other partners offering a $100-150 set-top box and some level of streaming capability for your own movies). If not, this might be something interesting next year when it matures (which, with Google behind it, I'm sure they'll pump more money and enhancements into it), but v1.0 won't cut it.

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post #100 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srauly View Post

I really don't mean to sound like a hater, but based on what has been made public so far, this thing has fail written all over it. The highlights:

* Expensive. Buy a new Sony TV or a $300 Logitech box.

* No streaming of your own content. The fact that this box gets a pass from so many people while the Apple TV is bashed because it can't do 1080p or support xyz file format shows how much Apple hate there is.

* The "type in a search box" to find anything approach works great on my computer for finding obscure things on the internet, but that isn't the primary approach I want to use for finding stuff to watch on TV tonight. And I *know* that my wife and father-in-law would want to throw the remote at the TV. Or I guess I should say that they'll be throwing a keyboard at the TV.

* The apps/channels is neat. Roku does that, too. But, as with the last point, this could be a mess in terms of usability for the average person. Having different apps with completely different UI's? Yeah, that will be family-friendly.

Based on what I'm seeing so far, this is a non-starter. Hopefully they have some surprises up their sleeves that they haven't revealed yet (mostly in terms of other partners offering a $100-150 set-top box and some level of streaming capability for your own movies). If not, this might be something interesting next year when it matures (which, with Google behind it, I'm sure they'll pump more money and enhancements into it), but v1.0 won't cut it.

We don't officially know the price yet.

And we don't know that it can't stream yet.

And you can always pull up a guide if you want to look for something to watch that way, its been shown off already. Search is an option, much like the search on Tivo which searches the guide, your recorded stuff and Netflix/Amazon all at once.

The point I think is to give options and to try and make it easier than other devices so far and more universal, more devices, more apps, more extensibility. I agree though that as presented its not worth $300 yet.
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post #101 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 07:12 PM
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The only real game changer is a box that eliminates requirement for cable tv altogether. In other words, until Google TV provides equivalent of live cable channels (for news and sports, at least) plus an on-demand version of other channels (that aren't live) this box, at best, will remain a niche product. These companies that want to merge TV with Internet still don't get it. Just use a streaming Netflix model, apply it to individual TV channels and you've just taken over the control of how people will ever watch TV - that's all. How hard is this to understand?
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post #102 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

The only real game changer is a box that eliminates requirement for cable tv altogether. In other words, until Google TV provides equivalent of live cable channels (for news and sports, at least) plus an on-demand version of other channels (that aren't live) this box, at best, will remain a niche product. These companies that want to merge TV with Internet still don't get it. Just use a streaming Netflix model, apply it to individual TV channels and you've just taken over the control of how people will ever watch TV - that's all. How hard is this to understand?

The issue is not the hardware, but the networks and their reluctance to offer something like that online.

Theres Hulu that sort of does that, and some other networks have websites that are all very separate and different. Until the networks wake up and offer better options to watch their stuff, paid or free, we will have to deal with stuff like Google TV, which is effectively a web browser which can access the various mish mash of solutions offered by each network independently, Hulu, Abc.com, espn3, hbo go and so forth...
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post #103 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 08:10 PM
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"And we don't know that it can't stream yet."

We don't know that. But the notion is going to run high-bit-rate MKVs as well as a Popbox seems a little absurd at this point. I mean maybe someone will write an app that makes that possible, but it sure doesn't appear Google is selling this as any kind of home-theater-class media streamer.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #104 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

Sony is already demoing TVs with GTV built in. Others will no doubt follow soon.

Were the Sony demonstrations("demoing"?) all on unreleased sets?

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post #105 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andydumi View Post

The issue is not the hardware, but the networks and their reluctance to offer something like that online.

Theres Hulu that sort of does that, and some other networks have websites that are all very separate and different. Until the networks wake up and offer better options to watch their stuff, paid or free, we will have to deal with stuff like Google TV, which is effectively a web browser which can access the various mish mash of solutions offered by each network independently, Hulu, Abc.com, espn3, hbo go and so forth...

You're right, it's the networks' fault. It's up to them to tailor their websites for Google TV and provide the content, Netflix-style (and I mean ALL the content found on regular TV channels, not just prime-time shows). Maybe after GTV comes out, everybody finally realizes how obvious the solution was, in retrospect. Personally, I don't even care to have everything live. I could watch sports and news shows on a delay. It's how people watch everything anyway - taped on a DVR. If Google TV eventually becomes that DVR, allowing people to finally get rid of all the inflated cable fees and bad STBs, only then GTV will become that must-own piece of equipment. It's only then when the merger between TV and internet will be complete.
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post #106 of 1827 Old 10-04-2010, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by vtms View Post

If Google TV eventually becomes that DVR, allowing people to finally get rid of all the inflated cable fees and bad STBs

It sometimes seems as if people are unware that cable companies and networks are the same thing. Content delivery companies treat content supply companies like a patent portfolio. Comcast/NBC is just the latest. If Apple + Jobs can only sway a company he controls (Disney/ABC) I can't imagine why people think Google is going to do any better.
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post #107 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 02:58 AM
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So WSJ says Google and Hulu are in talks about bringing Hulu Plus to the Google TV. Does this mean you won't be able to run Hulu? Hard to say since the web browser supposedly supports "the whole web". But if the user agent of the browser is intentionally blockable because the two sides have agreed to make it that way....

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #108 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcook01 View Post

Logitech is just the first one to take it to market. Goog says it'll be open source and Others are sure to create their own boxes and likely drive the costs down--similar to the android phones.

I'd have to check whether it's truly open source or licensable (I don't recall), but yeah the intent is for others to hop on as well.

The reason Logitech and Sony are the first to show product is because they are co-developers (along with Intel) of GoogleTV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by srauly View Post

I really don't mean to sound like a hater, but based on what has been made public so far, this thing has fail written all over it. The highlights:

* Expensive. Buy a new Sony TV or a $300 Logitech box.

* No streaming of your own content. The fact that this box gets a pass from so many people while the Apple TV is bashed because it can't do 1080p or support xyz file format shows how much Apple hate there is.

* The "type in a search box" to find anything approach works great on my computer for finding obscure things on the internet, but that isn't the primary approach I want to use for finding stuff to watch on TV tonight. And I *know* that my wife and father-in-law would want to throw the remote at the TV. Or I guess I should say that they'll be throwing a keyboard at the TV.

* The apps/channels is neat. Roku does that, too. But, as with the last point, this could be a mess in terms of usability for the average person. Having different apps with completely different UI's? Yeah, that will be family-friendly.

Based on what I'm seeing so far, this is a non-starter. Hopefully they have some surprises up their sleeves that they haven't revealed yet (mostly in terms of other partners offering a $100-150 set-top box and some level of streaming capability for your own movies). If not, this might be something interesting next year when it matures (which, with Google behind it, I'm sure they'll pump more money and enhancements into it), but v1.0 won't cut it.

Expect it to show up in a variety of products. For example, BluRay players.
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post #109 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcook01 View Post

Logitech is just the first one to take it to market. Goog says it'll be open source and Others are sure to create their own boxes and likely drive the costs down--similar to the android phones.

Then why do people constantly bring up the cost of the Logitech devices and then point out that GoogleTv is a failure because it is too expensive?

-Suntan
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post #110 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 08:14 AM
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Yeah I don't get it... Netflix has proved that streaming works and can be profitable (I think, a article said streaming 1 movie is something like 10c).

Why the major networks aren't trying to license their stuff to other companies is a mystery. I think they have this idea that people want to goto/pay 15 different subs to view content. When in reality it will only become main stream if what ever service can practically replace cable/dish services.

Probably what will happen first is that things will be very segmented for a while... ABC will be on aTV, NBC on gTV etc... then something will bomb and go under and a more universal service will take over.

They then have to build DVD/Blu-ray players (or in TVs like gTV) with what ever software is available (gtv or atv etc). Normal users do not want gagillion devices in their setup... The limit is generally 3 or 4 things (TV, Stereo, DVD/Blu-ray Player, and maybe one more. Any more devices and people get confused and lost in remote hell.
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post #111 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Then why do people constantly bring up the cost of the Logitech devices and then point out that GoogleTv is a failure because it is too expensive?

-Suntan

  • knee-jerk reactions
  • failure to comprehend the concept of a 'platform'
  • failure to comprehend the concept of a launch
  • trolling
  • ulterior motive

pick one
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post #112 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srauly View Post

The fact that this box gets a pass from so many people while the Apple TV is bashed because it can't do 1080p or support xyz file format shows how much Apple hate there is.

Personally, I'm fully prepared to hate both the Apple and the Google boxes (well ignore, I don't think I have enough energy to hate all the inanimate objects out there just because they don't interest me.)

That said, the apple thing is already announced and, if history is any indication, will be the only one released for the forseeable future with specs and capabilities that won't change all that much.

Info on the Google one is far from complete as far as knowing what it will ultimately be able to do. To say it gets a pass is a little inaccurate. More like, it gets a chance to explain what it actually is.

Anyway, feel free to hate or love whichever hunk of electronics you prefer. Personally, I don't have enough info yet to decide if a googletv product would be appealing to me or not. The little I know about the Logitech offering(s) is not that impressive, nor is the idea of getting a new TV, but I don't think those will be the only options.

Lastly, I don't see this thing needing to vanquish cable boxes completely before it is deemed acceptable. I know it is a little crazy, but there are some of us out there that don't have cable/sat now (and didn't *need* to replace it with some apples-to-apples internet equivalent in the first place.)

-Suntan
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post #113 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

  • knee-jerk reactions
  • failure to comprehend the concept of a 'platform'
  • failure to comprehend the concept of a launch
  • trolling
  • ulterior motive

pick one

You missed one, it's the only one with a price*

*although I may have missed others
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post #114 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 09:30 AM
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I think GTV has huge potential. However, $300 does seem a little too high for the Logitech box. (assuming that will be the price)

One big concern I have is, will it be able to play with my Time Warner Cable DVR (Cisco 8640HDC). I don't necessarily care if I can record shows, but I would definitely want to be able to see the contents of my DVR and be able to play them.

Does anyone know which DVRs GTV is compatible with?

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post #115 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

You missed one, it's the only one with a price*

*although I may have missed others



Yeah, I just went with the default reasons ... I'm sure there are plenty of others
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post #116 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 11:05 AM
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I'd have to check whether it's truly open source or licensable (I don't recall), but yeah the intent is for others to hop on as well.

It runs android. Android is open source. And i think i heard them promoting it as open source at google i/o --- a quick search reveals plenty of articles confirming, for instance:

Edit: straight from google:

Q. Can I download Google TV? When will it be open sourced?
A. No, Google TV is only available pre-installed on Sony TVs and blu-ray players, as well as Logitech companion boxes. We are working hard to open source the code for the Google TV project, and hope to release the source code next year.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...le.com/tv/faq/
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post #117 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcook01 View Post

It runs android. Android is open source. And i think i heard them promoting it as open source at google i/o --- a quick search reveals plenty of articles confirming, for instance:

Edit: straight from google:

Q. Can I download Google TV? When will it be open sourced?
A. No, Google TV is only available pre-installed on Sony TVs and blu-ray players, as well as Logitech companion boxes. We are working hard to open source the code for the Google TV project, and hope to release the source code next year.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...le.com/tv/faq/

Using Android as a basis does not make it open-source. Contrary to popular belief, large portions of Android are not using a GPL license.

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2...over-gplv2.ars


It's good to read they intend to make it open source, but they aren't required to and it won't necessarily end up in that manner.

Either way, I bet there will be licensing costs for the dev tools
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post #118 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

Using Android as a basis does not make it open-source. Contrary to popular belief, large portions of Android are not using a GPL license.

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2...over-gplv2.ars


It's good to read they intend to make it open source, but they aren't required to and it won't necessarily end up in that manner.

Either way, I bet there will be licensing costs for the dev tools

Frankly, I believe that open sourcing will not be of much help beyond what is being done with products like the WDTV Live.

The real capabilities of the underlying platform (in the Logitech box, it is the CE4100) are going to be hidden by API calls which will probably be under NDA (You can get those details only by paying some licensing costs if you want to be a developer yourself).

On the other hand, what would be interesting is the fact that this would be the first 'commercial' port of Android to the x86 platform....

Ganesh T S
Sr. Editor, AnandTech Inc.
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post #119 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 12:52 PM
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Frankly, I believe that open sourcing will not be of much help beyond what is being done with products like the WDTV Live.

The real capabilities of the underlying platform (in the Logitech box, it is the CE4100) are going to be hidden by API calls which will probably be under NDA (You can get those details only by paying some licensing costs if you want to be a developer yourself).

On the other hand, what would be interesting is the fact that this would be the first 'commercial' port of Android to the x86 platform....

I suspect Google is running into the same problems it has had with Android on cell phones with multiple partners.

I still don't quite get what GTV is trying to do? There are maybe 20 shows that are really popular. Is the idea that there are gems out there that people are missing and so could be best found by using a Google search interface over both web and broadcast/cable content?

The web used to be great. It has now turned into ad central. In fact come to think of it ad laden TV and ad polluted web do sort of go well together. I would have hoped that someone would come out with a process to allow us to escape ads. It's hard to go anywhere without being subjected to them. I don't think Google is doing anybody any favours by getting us increasingly addicted to ads.

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post #120 of 1827 Old 10-05-2010, 01:25 PM
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I would have hoped that someone would come out with a process to allow us to escape ads.

For now this is largely possible via DVD or the iTunes store.
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