Is True Wireless N Streaming 1080P Files Possible? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-19-2010, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi everyone,

I appreciate any advice to save me time and money... i'm remodeling my house and I'm trying to create a true Wifi N network without using ANY networking wires at all except from my wifi N router to the cable modem.

For the past month I have been trying to stream 1080P files (over 10 GB) and high bitrate mkv files flawlessly using my Popcorn A-200 with wifi N adapter and Arogsys HV335T with wifi N adapter. But it either keeps buffering in the middle of the movie, stuttering, and slow motion.

I've tried these routers and kept returning them because they could not stream my 1080P flawlessly (Fry's Eletronics must hate me now) as they claimed

Routers:
Netgear 3700
Linksys E1000
Linksys E3000

Network Adapters Chipset (USB Wifi N) with my PC and Laptop:

Ralinks Wifi N 2.4 (Dlinks?)
Ralinks Wifi N Dual Band (Linksys and Engenious)
Realtek Wifi N 2.4

Does anyone have any luck or advice out there? Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-19-2010, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgvZ4roadster View Post

Hi everyone,

I appreciate any advice to save me time and money... i'm remodeling my house and I'm trying to create a true Wifi N network without using ANY networking wires at all except from my wifi N router to the cable modem.

For the past month I have been trying to stream 1080P files (over 10 GB) and high bitrate mkv files flawlessly using my Popcorn A-200 with wifi N adapter and Arogsys HV335T with wifi N adapter. But it either keeps buffering in the middle of the movie, stuttering, and slow motion.

I've tried these routers and kept returning them because they could not stream my 1080P flawlessly (Fry's Eletronics must hate me now) as they claimed

Routers:
Netgear 3700
Linksys E1000
Linksys E3000

Network Adapters Chipset (USB Wifi N) with my PC and Laptop:

Ralinks Wifi N 2.4 (Dlinks?)
Ralinks Wifi N Dual Band (Linksys and Engenious)
Realtek Wifi N 2.4

Does anyone have any luck or advice out there? Thanks in advance!

PULL CABLE... It should cost about $ 125.00 per drop... Worth every penny.
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post #3 of 16 Old 06-19-2010, 01:31 PM
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yea i'm going to have to echo blackssr here, wireless (including N) is simply far too unreliable for HD content. You may be able to get it to work at close ranges but a bit too far or if the stars aren't aligned and it will give you headaches. Just get an electrician to wire it which should be easy since your remodeling.
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post #4 of 16 Old 06-19-2010, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the tips... I figured that after 2+ years that they have done something with the Wifi N technology to make it handle 1080P streaming for media players... I have been researching media players and their advertising with streaming 1080P using wireless N or customer reviews claiming they can actually stream high bitrate 1080P flawlessly - but I have not been able to get it to work...
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post #5 of 16 Old 06-19-2010, 04:05 PM
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I can stream all 1080 .mkv encodes you can download from the internet nowadays (bitrate up to 20mbps):

Laptop (cheap intel -n card) <-----12m------> Wireless router (cheap Linksys WAG120N, single band) <------12m------> WD Live (12$ ebay -n usb stick)

There are no walls/doors/obstacles of any kind between them...


If I reduce each distance from 12m to 3m, I can stream all my 25 bluray .m2ts flawlessly (e.g the Dark Knight).

I mostly use NFS (B-rad's firmware), or the media server option in the Live (but this one doesn't support external subs).

I suppose if you use better (dual band) router and better (dual band) wifi usb stick, you could get better results than these...
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-19-2010, 04:35 PM
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I have posted my tried and true formula for making this work before, but I will post again:

Linksys E3000 router
Linksys WET610N wireless bridge - DO NOT TRY TO USE A DONGLE OR BUILT IN WIRELESS ON YOUR STREAMER
Turn on WMM mode on both and prioritize Video on the bridge
Turn on use and accept aggregation
Choose maximum values for packet count and sizes
Use NFS as your protocol

REALLY IMPORTANT*** use a streamer with a good protocol stack

with 75 feet and 3 walls, I get a steady 56Mbps right now

I do have wired streamers also, but I do have areas of my house where running wire is prohibitively expensive
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post #7 of 16 Old 06-19-2010, 08:10 PM
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Maybe in the same room... covered with tin-foil?
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-21-2010, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

I have posted my tried and true formula for making this work before, but I will post again:

Linksys E3000 router
Linksys WET610N wireless bridge - DO NOT TRY TO USE A DONGLE OR BUILT IN WIRELESS ON YOUR STREAMER
Turn on WMM mode on both and prioritize Video on the bridge
Turn on use and accept aggregation
Choose maximum values for packet count and sizes
Use NFS as your protocol

REALLY IMPORTANT*** use a streamer with a good protocol stack

with 75 feet and 3 walls, I get a steady 56Mbps right now

I do have wired streamers also, but I do have areas of my house where running wire is prohibitively expensive

I read your quote/posts in another posting including others last week and that is why I bought a Linksys E3000. You can do those settings on the E3000 Router and not on the WRT610 wireless bridge(I didn't buy one)? I have yet been able to get a steady stream of 56Mbps... did you use WPA2 or any other encryption? I've heard quite a few media players have a problem streaming or finding other networked devices using that encryption... I've been told to turn off encrypytion.

My friend let me borrow a new media player(Yet to be released because he we works in product development for them) to test it's wireless N streaming has a USB Ralink 2.4 Wifi N dongle 150Mbps (I heard Ralinks make the best Wifi products and for brands i.e Cisco, Netgear, D-Link) - and I still can't get a steady stream as high as yours without the high bitrate MKV movie buffering or stuttering...
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post #9 of 16 Old 06-21-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgvZ4roadster View Post

Hi everyone,

I appreciate any advice to save me time and money... i'm remodeling my house and I'm trying to create a true Wifi N network without using ANY networking wires at all except from my wifi N router to the cable modem.

For the past month I have been trying to stream 1080P files (over 10 GB) and high bitrate mkv files flawlessly using my Popcorn A-200 with wifi N adapter and Arogsys HV335T with wifi N adapter. But it either keeps buffering in the middle of the movie, stuttering, and slow motion.

I've tried these routers and kept returning them because they could not stream my 1080P flawlessly (Fry's Eletronics must hate me now) as they claimed

Routers:
Netgear 3700
Linksys E1000
Linksys E3000

Network Adapters Chipset (USB Wifi N) with my PC and Laptop:

Ralinks Wifi N 2.4 (Dlinks?)
Ralinks Wifi N Dual Band (Linksys and Engenious)
Realtek Wifi N 2.4

Does anyone have any luck or advice out there? Thanks in advance!

All my Dlink devices, DGL4500 and DAP1522 have no issue streaming at 100mbs+ speeds with wireless N at 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz.

Performance is identical to any wired 100mbs connection. And I've maxed it close to 150mbs throughput between PCs. But regularly 100mbs+ is the norm.

Of course my three Access Points and wireless router are situated so I can always get excellent transfer speeds.

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post #10 of 16 Old 06-21-2010, 01:18 PM
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With a 5ghz wireless running DD-WRT I have seen sustained speeds of 60 megabits per second. However, for some odd reason when a bluray is starting up I have seen it jump up to 75 megabits per second or more and then remain low (under 30 megabits) for the rest of the duration. I monitored the bandwidth over a wired connection to determine exactly why my wireless connection wasn't working.

When the title starts up it is this initial jump, that causes the title not to play. I believe it is a shortcoming of hardware streamers not to identify a traffic bottleneck and buffer accordingly. If they did so, the 5Ghz N routers with sufficient bandwidth should be able to stream without problems.
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post #11 of 16 Old 06-21-2010, 01:20 PM
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Additionally, the connect speed of your router to your N adapter has no bearing to the real throughput you are getting. To test it, you have to copy a multi gigabit file over the network and benchmark the actual throughput for 10 minutes.
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-21-2010, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctor media View Post

Additionally, the connect speed of your router to your N adapter has no bearing to the real throughput you are getting. To test it, you have to copy a multi gigabit file over the network and benchmark the actual throughput for 10 minutes.

Yes, and I get average 100mbs+ speeds from my wireless network when transferring large files that take well over 10 minutes.

But unfortunately it's still nowhere close to the speeds of my wired gigabit network. I'll be glad when wireless speeds approach my gigabit network speeds of 900mbs throughput so I can dump the majority of my wired network.

I've already moved most of my 100mbs devices off my wired gigabit network and am using them with the DAP1522 units set up as wireless Bridges. Performance with those devices are identical to being connected to my wired network. But I need much, much faster speeds for my gigabit devices.

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post #13 of 16 Old 06-22-2010, 09:03 AM
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One word of advice w/ regards to what others on the internet say they can do with their wireless setup - Irrelevant.

I'm not saying anyone here is fibbing. Wireless transmission is a black art and there are a lot of individual issues that will affect it (heck, I can watch my wireless throughput take a dive and then recover every time a light aircraft flies by as it comes in for a landing at a local airport close by our house.)

Don't spend endless days trying to replicate the same performance that someone out on the internet says they can accomplish by just using this or that setting. Their location, interference, competing wireless transmissions around them, etc. etc. are all completely different from your situation in your house.

If you are having problems, pull a wire and be done with it.

-Suntan
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post #14 of 16 Old 06-22-2010, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

One word of advice w/ regards to what others on the internet say they can do with their wireless setup – Irrelevant.

I’m not saying anyone here is fibbing. Wireless transmission is a black art and there are a lot of individual issues that will affect it (heck, I can watch my wireless throughput take a dive and then recover every time a light aircraft flies by as it comes in for a landing at a local airport close by our house.)

Don’t spend endless days trying to replicate the same performance that someone out on the internet says they can accomplish by just using this or that setting. Their location, interference, competing wireless transmissions around them, etc. etc. are all completely different from your situation in your house.

If you are having problems, pull a wire and be done with it.

-Suntan

I agree for the most part, however, I do this sort of thing for a living. I have been able to faithfully replicate similar performance over a given distance and with 3 or fewer walls with the same equipment for several clients. With that said, it is always better to pull wire when feasible.

The original question was, is wireless streaming of 1080p files possible and the answer is mostly yes. If the 1080p files had a bitrate of under 55Mbps, and you have the ability to keep within 75 feet with reasonable obstructions, my answer would be yes. There are obviously a lot of variables that may cause fluctuation in that answer. YMMV
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post #15 of 16 Old 06-22-2010, 05:10 PM
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It's possible, given the right environment and hardware compatibility, but I've never seen it done myself. Since I moved away from having to stream files and won't likely ever go back to such a thing, I haven't played around with it for some time but I suspect my new router could handle it given it's specs.
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post #16 of 16 Old 06-22-2010, 05:28 PM
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The secret is not a "fast router". The secret is to use a router and bridge combination that supports wmm video packet aggregation and prioritization. Generally the bridge is a larger device and has a better antenna as well. Since the bridge hooks up to your streamer as a wired ethernet device, you also don't need to have another device process/driver running that can take precious cycles from the typically low-powered processors in these streamers. This will also reduce heat build-up inside of the streamer.
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