What is your take on Cinavia copy protection - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 332 Old 07-24-2010, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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What is your take on Cinavia copy protection? I wonder if it will effect the streaming community or just the "Disk Player" guys?

" Essentially AnyDVD cannot defeat this new protection mechanism. It made its debut this week on "The Losers".

It works backwards. Essentially if a player detects the watermark, it will mute the audio if it does NOT detect copyprotection. So, essentially the player refuses to play discs that are not copy protected. Newer players seem to be the ones that are doing the enforcing (and the PS3). It is possible older players will be "upgraded" to the new feature in future firmware releases (which might be required to play new discs).

It is interesting technology because apparently it is being used in theaters now. It will survive a camcorder recording. If a camcorder recording is burned to BD it will not play. It is also speculated it might be headed into new DVD players too.

Of course slysoft forums tried experiments. If you videotape something with a protected soundtrack playing in the background, it will trigger the copy protection! So, if you are filming your kid trying to talk or something and someone is watching a protected DVD in the other room, you will not be able to make a BD out of it."

" WDs media players seem to enforce this new protection too. They enforce it on ripped tracks (or for example if you tried to play that video tape made with the background soundtrack)."

This was taken from a another forum.
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post #2 of 332 Old 07-24-2010, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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The Losers and Repo Man are the first disks to support this.

From my understanding of this:

This new protection actually embeds itself in the Audio Stream of a Bluray Disk. If this is removed during the "Backup" process and the Audio will Mute after 20 minutes and display a message about not be legitimate or some BS like that. The PS3 already has the protection in place with the lastest firmware.
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post #3 of 332 Old 07-24-2010, 09:53 AM
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"The Runaways" too.
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post #4 of 332 Old 07-24-2010, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy™ View Post

"The Runaways" too.

Really, I did not know about The Runaways. I tested/watched all three of these on my Dune and all worked. However, I dusted off the PS3 and tested with a backup of The Losers and sure enough it is there. After 20 minutes or so the audio muted and some BS message popped up about copy protection. I have not tested my Sony BD changer yet, but I will dust it off and try later tonight.
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post #5 of 332 Old 07-25-2010, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post

I tested/watched all three of these on my Dune and all worked. However, I dusted off the PS3 and tested with a backup of The Losers and sure enough it is there. After 20 minutes or so the audio muted and some BS message popped up about copy protection.

So, as long as an existing player does not implement it via firmware update, it's not a problem? Of course, anyone with a license from the BDA will update (including Dune Prime). However, if it is implemented via firmware, it should be defeatable the same way.
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post #6 of 332 Old 07-25-2010, 07:25 PM
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Just like everyting else, it will eventually get cracked.

Thought this was pretty funny...

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post #7 of 332 Old 07-25-2010, 07:35 PM
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How long have they had unskippable previews on DVDs? I stopped watching DVDs years ago, but back when I did, I was always able to skip them. I see with the BDs I need to FF through them if I use the Full BD navigation on the BD ISOs.

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post #8 of 332 Old 07-25-2010, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveyd View Post

Just like everyting else, it will eventually get cracked.

Thought this was pretty funny...


LOL ..So true... and sad at the same time...

It is the same with PC games... The legit user must install, download forced updates, join steam or windows live, activate again, keep DVD in drive, Activate at random time during gameplay....

The Pirate... Install ripped version and play... Gee I wonder why legit sales are in the toilet and Piracy is up 1000%.

The "SUITS" need to learn a thing or two.
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post #9 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 06:32 AM
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Quote from another site:

"We consider that it is useful for the users to know about discs that contain Cinavia protection and about players that have detectors for it.

Blu-ray discs:
The Losers (US release)

Blu-ray/media players that use Cinavia:
Sony Playstation 3 (PS3) firmware 3.10 or higher
Pioneer BDP-V6000
Marantz UD5005
LG BDP550
"

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post #10 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

Quote from another site:

"We consider that it is useful for the users to know about discs that contain Cinavia protection and about players that have detectors for it.

Blu-ray discs:
The Losers (US release)

Blu-ray/media players that use Cinavia:
Sony Playstation 3 (PS3) firmware 3.10 or higher
Pioneer BDP-V6000
Marantz UD5005
LG BDP550
"

That is a very short list right now. I guess I'll need to pick up THE Losers with my Reward Zone dollars and check it out.

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post #11 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 07:16 AM
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https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...255B1%255D.ppt

Looks like Verance can provide reductions in (AACS?) licensing fees. Based on the wording, Verance targeted blu-ray players initially. Do media players require AACS licenses?? If that is the incentive...?

http://www.verance.com/AdminSavR/new...php?news_id=47
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post #12 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 07:26 AM
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Unless I'm reading it wrong on their forum, the SlySoft guys don't seem worried about Cinavia.

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #13 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Unless I'm reading it wrong on their forum, the SlySoft guys don't seem worried about Cinavia.

Not yet... Only a couple of movies have it. It may become a problem if all movies have it in the future.
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post #14 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

That is a very short list right now. I guess I'll need to pick up THE Losers with my Reward Zone dollars and check it out.

It doesn't effect media players yet. It only effects guys making physical backup copies of an original disk.
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post #15 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 07:42 AM
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post #16 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 08:05 AM
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More power to them .

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #17 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveyd View Post

Just like everyting else, it will eventually get cracked.

Thought this was pretty funny...


Not as much funny as it is infuriating; and they can keep their "extras" too. This is exactly why I rip every disk I own to a main title .ISO. The advent of the NMT media player and very cheap HDD mass storage has enabled me to skip the once necessary task of burning a main title backup disk. I don't feel the need to keep my entire library on line, only the top 300 or so titles, so I'm not faced with the need for ever expanding HDD storage.

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post #18 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 08:40 AM
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I'll have to check over at the DVD Fab forums for comment on this. I usually only go over there to get an update when I get a new disk that my current version can't rip. The discussion in their forums seems exclusively centered around making backup copies of disks so if this copy protection becomes a problem the cries will quickly arise. From past experience, I would suspect the boys from beijing would race the AnyDVD folks to eliminate it.

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post #19 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post

It doesn't effect media players yet. It only effects guys making physical backup copies of an original disk.

Thanks!

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post #20 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveyd View Post

Just like everyting else, it will eventually get cracked.

Thought this was pretty funny...


I ran a speed test... I can rip a BD to ISO in less time then it takes my Sony BD Changer to get to the Main Menu and actually play the movie from a real disk. How scary is this?
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post #21 of 332 Old 08-17-2010, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post

I ran a speed test... I can rip a BD to ISO in less time then it takes my Sony BD Changer to get to the Main Menu and actually play the movie from a real disk. How scary is this?

Wow, what BD drive do you have? I might have to consider upgrading! It takes me 30-45min to burn a b-ray iso.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #22 of 332 Old 08-18-2010, 04:57 AM
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great chart.
my lg takes 50 minutes to rip a disk. CRY

==================
What most people don't realize is the people making the movies do not make the protection.
A guy comes to a game or movie co and says you are loosing X amount of sales on each product. Yes its usually 50-70% that they tell them.
NOW IF YOU WANT TO GET 100% of YOUR MONEY you need OUR product.
YES this will make you millions in profits and it only cost you pennies..

SO for only $300,000 you will make millions more in profits.

It not that they know protection works but they are told it does. AND they are told it will make them money.

I wish I could remember the co that had the copy protection for a submarine game.
I think it was stardock, evasive and destructive protection.
The co told them that for 6 months they would have 100% safe sales with no way to crack it.
These morons put it in their sales ads for the game.
A CHALLENGE to the hackers. IT WAS CRACKED AND RELEASED 3 days before it went on sale.

What did the paying customers get, a protection that could not be removed and flaky computers.
Remember Sony protection on their music cd's .....DESTROYED SYSTEMS of course F the customer I have their money.
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post #23 of 332 Old 08-18-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etrin View Post

A guy comes to a game or movie co and says you are loosing X amount of sales on each product. Yes its usually 50-70% that they tell them.
NOW IF YOU WANT TO GET 100% of YOUR MONEY you need OUR product.
YES this will make you millions in profits and it only cost you pennies..

SO for only $300,000 you will make millions more in profits.

It not that they know protection works but they are told it does. AND they are told it will make them money.

Despite what people would like to believe, they are not that stupid.

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post #24 of 332 Old 08-18-2010, 06:34 AM
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The RIAA routinely floats those kind of ridiculous numbers claiming that they are losing $x Billions due to piracy.

Unfortunately all of this copy protection really just ends up hurting legitimate customers. All that's needed here is a copy protection free BD quality download (in .iso or .mkv, etc) with a digital watermark with the name of the person who paid for the file and a few other details.

However, the studios don't want you to 'just' have the movie you bought. You are getting a 'bargain' getting their hard earned intellectual property for the low price of $20 or $30 per disc, so they put in the unskippable trailers and all the other BS and force you to sit through it each and every time you put the disc in the machine.
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post #25 of 332 Old 08-18-2010, 06:38 AM
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It was called Starforce

http://www.glop.org/starforce/

The list of MANY games that had it is at
http://groups.google.com/group/boyco...web/games-list

You should run the Starforce Removal Tool found at http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55

if you ever loaded one of the games on the list.

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post #26 of 332 Old 08-18-2010, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

However, the studios don't want you to 'just' have the movie you bought . . . they put in the unskippable trailers and all the other BS and force you to sit through it each and every time you put the disc in the machine.

Which is why, amongst other reasons, I don't even own a BD player. I took the money I would have spent on an Oppo BD player and invested it in a DVD Fab license and a media player. Buy the disk, rip the main title and enjoy the movie my way -- not theirs.

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post #27 of 332 Old 08-18-2010, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Which is why, amongst other reasons, I don't even own a BD player. I took the money I would have spent on an Oppo BD player and invested it in a DVD Fab license and a media player. Buy the disk, rip the main title and enjoy the movie my way -- not theirs.

Kudos... same here.. I simply hate being forced fed ads, trailers and commercials. I didn't care what it cost to elimate these things in my home. I have not watched a commercial on TV in 10 years and have not watched DVD/BD trailers in almost 3. Life is good thanks to Tivo and Slysoft. I have over 4000 loyal customers in my business and half of them have AnyDVDHD.. I help for free and teach them the dark side of ripping.
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post #28 of 332 Old 12-22-2010, 08:02 PM
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Looks like Sony has rolled out Cinavia in full force on a bunch of their new titles! Other Guys, Salt, RE4, etc

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy Cinavia-infected Blu-ray Discs! Why pay a premium for pseudo-lossless audio damaged by an intrusive watermark in the audible spectrum?
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post #29 of 332 Old 12-22-2010, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Looks like Sony has rolled out Cinavia in full force on a bunch of their new titles! Other Guys, Salt, RE4, etc

That is why remuxing is the best method to stick it to them.
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post #30 of 332 Old 12-22-2010, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Looks like Sony has rolled out Cinavia in full force on a bunch of their new titles! Other Guys, Salt, RE4, etc

What does that actually mean? I've seen no issues with BD ISOs of "Other Guys" and "Salt".

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