New Dune HD Max and HD Smart anticipation thread Q3 2010 - Page 390 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11671 of 11699 Old 05-28-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
It hasn't worked for years. Since about 2009-2010. Back to Windows 7 and beyond (actually XP was pretty damn good with file permissions)

It has nothing to do with SMB, it has always been a folder/file permission problem. It won't even work with Mac shares if they are set to accept SMB connections.
Actually I think is has something to do with the SMB version, I did not remember well who upgraded Windows or Dune and when (sorry for the confusion), but please read this post for clarification.
It is for Dune Solo 4K but you may find it useful for older Dunes like HD Max and HD Smart.


Dune HD SOLO 4K Media Player

"Windows 7 runs SMB 2.1 and the Dune Solo 4k is running SMB 4.3.10 after the earlier firmware upgrade which. The idea is that that later SMB version should negotiate to the lowest common protocol while not taking advantage of the later version's specific capabilities, but it can lead to problems such as the stuttering issue you are seeing, which wasn't there before SMB was upgraded on the Dune. I haven't found any evidence that a later SMB version is available for Windows 7."

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post #11672 of 11699 Old 05-28-2017, 11:45 AM
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I upgraded to the new FW.
The free promo premium function, that enables "My collection" is active until 2017-05-31.
Does anyone have any idea if the subscription will be based on an account for all the Dune HD Max and HD Smart that account owns, or it will be by account by product.
I own 2 Dune HD Max, 1 HD Duo, 2 HD Smart H1 and 1 HD Smart B1.
In other words, do I have to pay 6 subscriptions or just 1 subscription for all the 6 Dunes?
Also, any idea of how much the subscription will be per month or per year?
I own also a Dune Solo 4K which does not need subscription but there is a Dune Solo 4k Lite version which need subscription.
Dune Solo 4K Lite is on the market from 1 year ago, but Dune never enforced the subscription, so far, Solo4K Lite is still in the promo period since 1 year ago.
Thanks

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post #11673 of 11699 Old 05-28-2017, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by thxjay View Post
The new firmware for the older models (I have smarts) is amazing!!!

After all the complaining over the last couple of years, dune has pulled out a blockbuster and have fixed all the bugs and missing features people wanted.

Upgrade and pretty much bring your old machine right up to date so it does virtually everything that the new models do (obviously not 4K or h.265) including forced subs (at last!!!) and gapless audio playback.

The new My Collection jukebox & Movie streaming plugin will be paid for apps in future but you don't have to use them, it's just a nice bonus.

I had been stuck on the old b6 firmware because I was using ScottyJ's forced subs patch, now it's not needed. Other little upgrades from b6 include the newer motion adaptive+ deinterlacing, the audio info boxes now show the proper tag info instead of shortened generic titles, now it shows whatever you write in the audio track title field.

Awesome update, almost makes me wonder why I updated to Solo 4K

Great work Dune....now let's get the movie & TV jukebox up to a world class standard!
Can you clarify what you mean by gapless audio playback?

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post #11674 of 11699 Old 05-28-2017, 07:42 PM
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Now you got me all excited.... do you have Windows PCs that you can test whether they fixed the SMB permission issues? That is the reason I went back to HTPCs, the permission issues with Windows shares was driving me nuts.
Definitely there can be a problem with Windows shares access from Dunes. Sometimes it's a time consuming business to get it working. But I can evidence that it's doable. I have two Dune TV-102 (same thing in that regard, imo) and I'd managed to access the default Windows share (Public, which is enough for my needs) in the Dune's network browser for the following OSes:

-Win Vista 32 Ultimate;
-Win 7 32-bit Home;
-Win 8 Pro (32-bit and 64-bit);
-Win 8.1 Pro (32-bit and 64-bit);
-Win 10 Pro 64-bit, current build and the Insider's preview build;
-Win 10 Home 32-bit, current build

I think there are a number of ways to get the access working but what I have done is to change four network-related parameters (using Local Security Policy applet or Regedit), that are related to anonymous access to the share. That's it. Updated my Dune with the new firmware (r11), the access is not broken, all fine.
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post #11675 of 11699 Old 05-29-2017, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hiisi View Post
Definitely there can be a problem with Windows shares access from Dunes. Sometimes it's a time consuming business to get it working. But I can evidence that it's doable. I have two Dune TV-102 (same thing in that regard, imo) and I'd managed to access the default Windows share (Public, which is enough for my needs) in the Dune's network browser for the following OSes:

-Win Vista 32 Ultimate;
-Win 7 32-bit Home;
-Win 8 Pro (32-bit and 64-bit);
-Win 8.1 Pro (32-bit and 64-bit);
-Win 10 Pro 64-bit, current build and the Insider's preview build;
-Win 10 Home 32-bit, current build

I think there are a number of ways to get the access working but what I have done is to change four network-related parameters (using Local Security Policy applet or Regedit), that are related to anonymous access to the share. That's it. Updated my Dune with the new firmware (r11), the access is not broken, all fine.
I think all of us can access the SMB shares on Windows. This is not the problem. The problem is the picture quality is not so good, it is stuttering sometimes.
This is why NFS is better.
Thanks
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post #11676 of 11699 Old 05-29-2017, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Untaru View Post
I think all of us can access the SMB shares on Windows. This is not the problem. The problem is the picture quality is not so good, it is stuttering sometimes.
This is why NFS is better.
Thanks
When my Windows shares have the right permissions settings the quality is the same on SMB and I get NO stuttering. When Windows updates anything to do with networking, it resets the permissions and I can no longer see the shares. How do I know it resets the settings...cause I can see the registries being changed to default after each update.

I have never heard anyone complain that the picture quality is different on SMB vs NFS.
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post #11677 of 11699 Old 05-29-2017, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Untaru View Post
I think all of us can access the SMB shares on Windows. This is not the problem. The problem is the picture quality is not so good, it is stuttering sometimes.
This is why NFS is better.
Thanks
NFS is a bit faster but that may or may not result in any advantage ('better'). I have а NAS, so PC access is just for technical reasons, the bit rate doesn't matter. Why NFS is better in that case? As for the NAS, yes, NFS works faster but SMB provides enough bit rate in most cases. IMHO, it depends on your film library, which protocol to use
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post #11678 of 11699 Old 05-29-2017, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hiisi View Post
NFS is a bit faster but that may or may not result in any advantage ('better'). I have а NAS, so PC access is just for technical reasons, the bit rate doesn't matter. Why NFS is better in that case? As for the NAS, yes, NFS works faster but SMB provides enough bit rate in most cases. IMHO, it depends on your film library, which protocol to use
The not so good picture quality (stuttering) in case of Windows SMB is because of this:


Dune HD SOLO 4K Media Player

"Windows 7 runs SMB 2.1 and the Dune Solo 4k is running SMB 4.3.10 after the earlier firmware upgrade which. The idea is that that later SMB version should negotiate to the lowest common protocol while not taking advantage of the later version's specific capabilities, but it can lead to problems such as the stuttering issue you are seeing, which wasn't there before SMB was upgraded on the Dune. I haven't found any evidence that a later SMB version is available for Windows 7."

I think the conclusion could be:
SMB version on PC and Dune should match.
As for the dispute which is better SMB or NFS you are the first person I hear saying that NFS is not better than SMB.
I would say, the only disadvantage of NFS vs. SMB is that NFS is not for free.
I mean nobody would buy NFS if SMB is equal or better than NFS, don't you think?
Thanks

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post #11679 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Untaru View Post
The not so good picture quality (stuttering) in case of Windows SMB is because of this:


Dune HD SOLO 4K Media Player

"Windows 7 runs SMB 2.1 and the Dune Solo 4k is running SMB 4.3.10 after the earlier firmware upgrade which. The idea is that that later SMB version should negotiate to the lowest common protocol while not taking advantage of the later version's specific capabilities, but it can lead to problems such as the stuttering issue you are seeing, which wasn't there before SMB was upgraded on the Dune. I haven't found any evidence that a later SMB version is available for Windows 7."

I think the conclusion could be:
SMB version on PC and Dune should match.
As for the dispute which is better SMB or NFS you are the first person I hear saying that NFS is not better than SMB.
I would say, the only disadvantage of NFS vs. SMB is that NFS is not for free.
I mean nobody would buy NFS if SMB is equal or better than NFS, don't you think?
Scientifically speaking, you're right. NFS provides better throughput. There must be free nfs servers for windows, but if we'd like to go outside the free domain, the better approach would be to invest in NAS staying with SMB than to purchase additional PC software for NFS.

BTW I'm not sure the SMB protocol version re-negotiation takes place for each block in the file transfer mid-time so the relation between stuttering issue and SMB version can be more complex, I think... Beside, sorry tor reminding this, but Win 7 is obsolete now. We're using Win 10, no?
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post #11680 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untaru View Post
The not so good picture quality (stuttering) in case of Windows SMB is because of this:


Dune HD SOLO 4K Media Player

"Windows 7 runs SMB 2.1 and the Dune Solo 4k is running SMB 4.3.10 after the earlier firmware upgrade which. The idea is that that later SMB version should negotiate to the lowest common protocol while not taking advantage of the later version's specific capabilities, but it can lead to problems such as the stuttering issue you are seeing, which wasn't there before SMB was upgraded on the Dune. I haven't found any evidence that a later SMB version is available for Windows 7."

I think the conclusion could be:
SMB version on PC and Dune should match.
As for the dispute which is better SMB or NFS you are the first person I hear saying that NFS is not better than SMB.
I would say, the only disadvantage of NFS vs. SMB is that NFS is not for free.
I mean nobody would buy NFS if SMB is equal or better than NFS, don't you think?
Thanks
First lets clear up this post. Windows SMB version and Linux SMB version have nothing in common. SMB4 linux added support for SMB3.0 on windows which came out with windows 8 and windows 2012 server. The difference between SMB 2.1 and SMB 3 on windows are so small you would not notice a difference in home usage.

So lets get into conclusion. SMB version between PC and Dune will never match as they are not equal SMB on linux is added after windows gets a new version. In the world of SMB there is no V4 its still at V3.1
Second NFS is faster then SMB but there is a big But. Not in terms of media playback the reason being NFS is faster at transferring small individual files. It has a slight speed increase over larger file sizes but its so minimal you would never notice a difference in real world usage we are talking 2 second difference on a transfer of a file of 3GB.
Now on to why people get stutter under samba this is badly tuned TCP stacks on both sides. A good example of this is if you run windows server 2012 as a server for your media you will notice a lot more stuttering take the same software run NFS and no stutter take the same hardware install windows 7 and use samba again no stutter. The TCP stack inside server 2012 does not play nice with the way certain streamers request data over SMB

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post #11681 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 02:58 PM
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So is the MyCollection thing supposed to be active right now, or is it something coming in the future? It doesn't seem to do anything as far as I can tell. It doesn't find files.

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post #11682 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 03:44 PM
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So is the MyCollection thing supposed to be active right now, or is it something coming in the future? It doesn't seem to do anything as far as I can tell. It doesn't find files.
Seems so (supposed to be active). BTW Dune said it does not work on TV-303Dv2 and Base 3Dv2 devices because of known FW defect in current beta

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post #11683 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 04:00 PM
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Second NFS is faster then SMB but there is a big But. Not in terms of media playback the reason being NFS is faster at transferring small individual files. It has a slight speed increase over larger file sizes but its so minimal you would never notice a difference in real world usage we are talking 2 second difference on a transfer of a file of 3GB.
Anyway in my case (Dune 102 and Syno NAS) the dune's file read test shows that NFS is about 20% faster than SMB (the latter is more than enough though). And the Jellyfish rate for NFS is always higher than that for SMB.
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post #11684 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 04:23 PM
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Anyway in my case (Dune 102 and Syno NAS) the dune's file read test shows that NFS is about 20% faster than SMB (the latter is more than enough though). And the Jellyfish rate for NFS is always higher than that for SMB.
Sadly read speed tests are not accurate for the type of measurement without knowing what it is reading and how. if its reading a block chunk of 10 megs over and over NFS will be faster by about 20% this is correct the reason is how the NFS connection stays open so you are losing a lot of overhead in your file requests. If its reading one file that is 200 megs they will be almost identical. Second you are talking Linux to Linux which of course Native NFS would outperform SMB. The comparison really only works where SMB is native to windows.

Linux to Linux always go with NFS its native to both.
Windows to Linux you can use SMB or NFS but NFS is not out the of the box on windows.
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post #11685 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 05:02 PM
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Sadly read speed tests are not accurate for the type of measurement without knowing what it is reading and how. if its reading a block chunk of 10 megs over and over NFS will be faster by about 20% this is correct the reason is how the NFS connection stays open so you are losing a lot of overhead in your file requests. If its reading one file that is 200 megs they will be almost identical. Second you are talking Linux to Linux which of course Native NFS would outperform SMB. The comparison really only works where SMB is native to windows.

Linux to Linux always go with NFS its native to both.
Windows to Linux you can use SMB or NFS but NFS is not out the of the box on windows.
Sure. The only disadvantage of using NFS on Dune is that the dune's NFS client requires server IP address specification. While the SMB client accepts the server's host name. Unfortunately, the NFS client (even in the new version) is not taking advantage of the SMB client's capability to resolve NetBIOS host names.
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post #11686 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 05:34 PM
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I installed the new firmware and I really like the My Collection app. I see its probably going to be only $20 per year - I'll probably subscribe. Seems pretty easy to set up unlike the YAMJ I did for our mede8er.

I do have an issue though. I have a pro-box with 4 drives, and a new external 8tb both plugged in to usb 3.0. Until now the pro box worked fine with the dune b1. But now, I can't access any of the media folders on the 5 drives on usb. I see the folders listed as shared in my network. And all the folders in my internal drives are working fine with the dune. Anyone know what might be going on? thanks
Dave
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post #11687 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 06:30 PM
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I installed the new firmware and I really like the My Collection app. I see its probably going to be only $20 per year - I'll probably subscribe. Seems pretty easy to set up unlike the YAMJ I did for our mede8er.

I do have an issue though. I have a pro-box with 4 drives, and a new external 8tb both plugged in to usb 3.0. Until now the pro box worked fine with the dune b1. But now, I can't access any of the media folders on the 5 drives on usb. I see the folders listed as shared in my network. And all the folders in my internal drives are working fine with the dune. Anyone know what might be going on? thanks
Dave
So you got the MyCollection to actually do something? How long did it take to find anything?

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post #11688 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 07:06 PM
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Hi,
As you may know to run faster My Collection you need a faster media for System Storage.
I think most of us we have currently as System Storage an USB or an SD card, small capacity.
To run My Collection we would need a higher capacity system storage, as My collection will occupy more space, depending on the number of movies and series we have.
My question is, does it worth to put a SATA SSD as system storage, for the speed increase?
I think that Dune HD MAX and HD Smart are equipped with SATA II chip.
What is the actual speed comparison for Dune (HD Max and/or HD Smart) SATA when compare with Dune (HD Max and/or HD Smart) USB speed and Dune (HD Max and/or HD Smart) SD card?
I could do the test myself but I am lazy :-).
Thanks
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post #11689 of 11699 Old 05-30-2017, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dbrons View Post
I installed the new firmware and I really like the My Collection app. I see its probably going to be only $20 per year - I'll probably subscribe. Seems pretty easy to set up unlike the YAMJ I did for our mede8er.

I do have an issue though. I have a pro-box with 4 drives, and a new external 8tb both plugged in to usb 3.0. Until now the pro box worked fine with the dune b1. But now, I can't access any of the media folders on the 5 drives on usb. I see the folders listed as shared in my network. And all the folders in my internal drives are working fine with the dune. Anyone know what might be going on? thanks
Dave
Have you tried yaDIS? It's free and better than Dunes MyCollection. MyCollection still needs some work.

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post #11690 of 11699 Old 05-31-2017, 04:45 AM
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So you got the MyCollection to actually do something? How long did it take to find anything?
I only added one folder - containing 12 Angry Men. It loaded up all the info for the movie with thumbnails for the cast and crew etc. Didnt take any time at all hardly. I was thinking, hoping, Id learn how to add multiple folders at a time. The title of my folder was not exact but My Collection correctly identified the movie without editing.

I had tried YADIS some time ago and also Zappiti but had difficulty but I got the YAMJ (I think thats the name) for our Mede8er working well but it took some time editing
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post #11691 of 11699 Old 05-31-2017, 06:18 AM
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Hi,
As you may know to run faster My Collection you need a faster media for System Storage.
I think most of us we have currently as System Storage an USB or an SD card, small capacity.
To run My Collection we would need a higher capacity system storage, as My collection will occupy more space, depending on the number of movies and series we have.
My question is, does it worth to put a SATA SSD as system storage, for the speed increase?
I think that Dune HD MAX and HD Smart are equipped with SATA II chip.
What is the actual speed comparison for Dune (HD Max and/or HD Smart) SATA when compare with Dune (HD Max and/or HD Smart) USB speed and Dune (HD Max and/or HD Smart) SD card?
I could do the test myself but I am lazy :-).
Thanks
I installed a Intel SSD 120 GB using the SATA connector of my Optical Disk Drive inside my Dune HD Max. The speed test shows 92 MB/s!
I initialized the SSD as System storage, to use with My collection.
I put the SSD inside my Dune HD Max in the place where it supposed to be some special modules (the modules that never showed up).
This place has a metallic door, on the back of the player, that can be removed and you can easily access the SSD.
I also put a SATA cable from the Optical Disc to the place where the SSD is.
When I need the Optical Disc I just pull out the SATA cable from the SSD (this SATA cable connects the SSD to the Motherboard) and connect it using a SATA-SATA adaptor to the SATA cable that comes from the Optical Disc.
Thanks

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post #11692 of 11699 Old 05-31-2017, 08:09 AM
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I only added one folder - containing 12 Angry Men. It loaded up all the info for the movie with thumbnails for the cast and crew etc. Didnt take any time at all hardly. I was thinking, hoping, Id learn how to add multiple folders at a time. The title of my folder was not exact but My Collection correctly identified the movie without editing.

I had tried YADIS some time ago and also Zappiti but had difficulty but I got the YAMJ (I think thats the name) for our Mede8er working well but it took some time editing
Ah, I see. I was hoping you didn't have to do it one at a time. I was trying to add folders that contained a folder for each of my movies. I have Zappiti working fine, but thought I'd give this a whirl. Adding each (or most - more recent additions are single mkv files all in one folder) individually is too much of a hassle.

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post #11693 of 11699 Old 06-01-2017, 08:13 PM
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Ah, I see. I was hoping you didn't have to do it one at a time. I was trying to add folders that contained a folder for each of my movies. I have Zappiti working fine, but thought I'd give this a whirl. Adding each (or most - more recent additions are single mkv files all in one folder) individually is too much of a hassle.
It can definitely process multiple movies in one shot. You should be able to scan a folder that contains individual movie specific folders.

The only limitation I've found is with TV shows, I haven't had much luck with them.
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post #11694 of 11699 Old Yesterday, 02:02 AM
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As expected the trial period for My Collection did not end at 31st May 2017 as Dune informed initially.
The trial period is valid until further notice.
Thanks
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post #11695 of 11699 Old Yesterday, 08:10 PM
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No sound on MKVs with newest firmware

I just noticed that I get no sound on MKVs with the newest firmware - has anyone else experienced this?

Has anyone found a workaround?
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post #11696 of 11699 Old Yesterday, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untaru View Post
As expected the trial period for My Collection did not end at 31st May 2017 as Dune informed initially.
The trial period is valid until further notice.
Thanks
When I installed the firmware last week, it said trial period through June 15th
Dave
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post #11697 of 11699 Old Today, 09:01 AM
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Yeah, I don't like the MyCollection thing. It incorrectly associated files with some movies, and it was a pain trying to remove those associations or to accurately associate the files to the proper movie. The look is nice, and the ability to link to trailers and stuff, but I would prefer to view more movies on screen at once. I didn't notice any kind of grouping functionality either.

I think I'll stick with Zappiti.

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post #11698 of 11699 Old Today, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
Yeah, I don't like the MyCollection thing. It incorrectly associated files with some movies, and it was a pain trying to remove those associations or to accurately associate the files to the proper movie. The look is nice, and the ability to link to trailers and stuff, but I would prefer to view more movies on screen at once. I didn't notice any kind of grouping functionality either.

I think I'll stick with Zappiti.
To view more movies on a screen at once you just have to push the button A (the red button on your remote) until you are satisfied with the number of movies on your screen.
My collection can display maximum 40 movies on your screen.
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post #11699 of 11699 Old Today, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrons View Post
When I installed the firmware last week, it said trial period through June 15th
Dave
It means they did not give up :-)
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