Netgear NeoTV 550 - Page 102 - AVS Forum
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post #3031 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

Netgear has quite a number of suites booked at the Marriot. I think Netgear's event was probably 'invitation-only', which is why Bob had placed the note earlier.

I was over there today and had a very fruitful interactive session with the program managers.

Here are some updates for you guys on the NTV 550 front:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4110/netgear-ces-2011/2


Cinavia....
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post #3032 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by skro View Post

But full menu support is a very big deal for some, including me. I would guess that many 550 users view this as a critical feature. Therefore, the only competition (from this viewpoint) is the dune series and the c-200. Bd lite doesn't cut it for a lot of us. Just personal preference.

I fully respect your view of full BD menu support, but I do not understand the need. Is it a WAF or children ease acceptance thing or something I´ve missed out on in the difference between Lite and full support?

Cheers
Mike
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post #3033 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JDz View Post

Cinavia....

How is 'Cinavia' going to affect First Generation BD Rips?

Kevin
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post #3034 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 01:50 AM
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If you are talking about older titles I don't guess it would. I imagine most of the new releases will start to have this protection.
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post #3035 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JDz View Post

Cinavia....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDz View Post

If you are talking about older titles I don't guess it would. I imagine most of the new releases will start to have this protection.

Hello JDz

By 'First Generation' I am referring to the First time Copy of a BD.

Kevin
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post #3036 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

Netgear has quite a number of suites booked at the Marriot. I think Netgear's event was probably 'invitation-only', which is why Bob had placed the note earlier.

I was over there today and had a very fruitful interactive session with the program managers.

Here are some updates for you guys on the NTV 550 front:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4110/netgear-ces-2011/2

Photo browsing speed is going to be fixed in a firmware along with a host of other issues coming later this month, as per the PM.

Excellent!
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post #3037 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

Netgear has quite a number of suites booked at the Marriot. I think Netgear's event was probably 'invitation-only', which is why Bob had placed the note earlier.

I was over there today and had a very fruitful interactive session with the program managers.

Here are some updates for you guys on the NTV 550 front:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4110/netgear-ces-2011/2

Hey, we actually ran into each other. I was the guy that said I knew about anandtech when we were talking to a tablet maker in the south hall. The maker did not know about it but I said I read it all the time and I asked which writer are you. Have been reading that site since it started way back when, 10-13 years?

Anyways, it is still bad that Netgear, which used to always have a big space at the convention hall, have none this year. Even JVC which used to do hotel suites only, has convention space this year.
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post #3038 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 02:11 AM
 
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"Netgear is trying to explore the possibility of having some developers interact with the end-users on non-official forums like AVSForums"

Yes, please interact with us.
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post #3039 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Forsyth View Post

I fully respect your view of full BD menu support, but I do not understand the need.

That issue has been discussed a couple of times before. BD support means full BD support, otherwhise it is just a wannabe solution.
I do not do anything with my BDs, just have 1:1 copies on the server. And I want them to behave exactly as they would when a BD is sitting in the drive, including all options.
Which of course includes the access to the whole menu including all options and extras, let alone different versions of a movie.
Only full BD support is real BD support, anything else may not be considered as BD support at all.
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post #3040 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 03:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ThomasG. View Post

I do not do anything with my BDs, just have 1:1 copies on the server. And I want them to behave exactly as they would when a BD is sitting in the drive, including all options.
Which of course includes the access to the whole menu including all options and extras, let alone different versions of a movie.

Agreed, this is exactly what I want to do. But Cinavia is now a big concern.
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post #3041 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 03:32 AM
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Does anyone know what the practical impact of a Cinavia-implementation will be?

My brand new NTV does hang quite often, and I need to unplug the power to get it to respond. In about 25% of the times it generates a error log upon reboot, so Netgear may fix it sometime. Worst thing is the lack of possibility to cancel time consuming tasks. When the NTV states "please wait" (or something similar), then there is no possible way to cancel the tasks. This especially occurs when trying to access the internet streaming services (flicker, radios etc).
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post #3042 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

Here are some updates for you guys on the NTV 550 front:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4110/netgear-ces-2011/2

Thanks for the update Ganesh.
Cinavia is big No No on a media extender.
Have you had any time to run some of your own tests yet? I am specially interested in HQV aliasing test.
My question is why they need to start interacting on AVSforum?
Make some sort of ticket system for bugs like Boxee would be a better approach at this time.
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post #3043 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 03:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MozzeNO View Post

Does anyone know what the practical impact of a Cinavia-implementation will be?

On discs that have the Cinavia coding, a ripped copy of it will either stop playing or the sound will be muted.

Hopefully at some point there will be a way to remove the coding during ripping, as I doubt Netgear are going to provide a way to bypass Cinavia once it is implemented.
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post #3044 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

On discs that have the Cinavia coding, a ripped copy of it will either stop playing or the sound will be muted.

Hopefully at some point there will be a way to remove the coding during ripping, as I doubt Netgear are going to provide a way to bypass Cinavia once it is implemented.

I can understand Cinavia being implemented with physical BDs but how is it going to work with BD Rips.

I mean, the Devs have implemented BD ISO with full BD Menu support so what is the point if Cinavia will prevent its playback?

Only time will tell I guess.

Kevin
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post #3045 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Hopefully at some point there will be a way to remove the coding during ripping, as I doubt Netgear are going to provide a way to bypass Cinavia once it is implemented.

Of course there will be, I'd bet on that. There has not and most probably will not be any protection which is un-crackable. The whole copy-protection thing is just plain stupid anyway.
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post #3046 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kncowans View Post

I can understand Cinavia being implemented with physical BDs but how is it going to work with BD Rips.

I mean, the Devs have implemented BD ISO with full BD Menu support so what is the point if Cinavia will prevent its playback?

Only time will tell I guess.

Kevin

Well, since it's illegal (in most countries) to rip commercial BDs the ability to play BD ISOs with full menu support on the Neo is so you can play your own home-made movies. These won't have Cinavia and so NG would have no reason to circumvent it. I'm sure NG are perfectly capable of circumventing it but it would not be a good commercial decision to do battle with Hollywood and governments all around the world by doing so. It's fine for individuals to circumvent copy protection but not big corporations like NG. Case in point, the Neo is able to play BD ISOs from attached eSATA/USB BD drives but you have to download a "hack" from elsewhere to make it possible. Once NG have all the legal stuff out of the way they'll enable that feature in the firmware proper.
Funny how someone is able to "hack" the Neo even tho it's only been available for a couple of weeks. It's predecessor, the EVA8000, has been out for 4 years or so yet no one has managed to hack that. It's a funny old world, isn't it.
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post #3047 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasG. View Post

That issue has been discussed a couple of times before. BD support means full BD support, otherwhise it is just a wannabe solution.
I do not do anything with my BDs, just have 1:1 copies on the server. And I want them to behave exactly as they would when a BD is sitting in the drive, including all options.
Which of course includes the access to the whole menu including all options and extras, let alone different versions of a movie.
Only full BD support is real BD support, anything else may not be considered as BD support at all.

Thanks Thomas for the response.

Personally I try to keep the copy as small as possible with only the main movie, the main audio and english + swedish subtitles. If someone in the family actually need to see extras they can always get the disc out from the storage room. I have maybe watched extra material 5-10 times in my life myself so no need for it on hdd. I try to save space and even probably have 30-50 dvds that I haven´t ripped due to them not being worthy of any space .

Almost 60% tax on salary and 25% tax on electronics in Sweden make you think twice before you do 1:1 copies for your hard earned money
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post #3048 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by OnlyMe View Post

Snip...
Funny how someone is able to "hack" the Neo even tho it's only been available for a couple of weeks. It's predecessor, the EVA8000, has been out for 4 years or so yet no one has managed to hack that. It's a funny old world, isn't it.

Hello OnlyMe

Have you actually opened the 'Hack' BDAllow to see what it contains?

Well, all it contains is one line of Text:

allowplayback=1

Bye for now

Kevin
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post #3049 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 05:33 AM
 
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Have you actually opened the 'Hack' BDAllow to see what it contains?

Isn't it the BDAllow.Sig that contains the important stuff though?
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post #3050 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Forsyth View Post

Thanks Thomas for the response.

Personally I try to keep the copy as small as possible with only the main movie, the main audio and english + swedish subtitles. If someone in the family actually need to see extras they can always get the disc out from the storage room. I have maybe watched extra material 5-10 times in my life myself so no need for it on hdd. I try to save space and even probably have 30-50 dvds that I haven´t ripped due to them not being worthy of any space .

Almost 60% tax on salary and 25% tax on electronics in Sweden make you think twice before you do 1:1 copies for your hard earned money

Question then is, what do you need a mediaplayer for anyway?

To have BDs on a server is a matter of convenience, especially when you have HT equipment (including, of course, mediaplayers) in several rooms. It is intentionally made so you do not have to go to the shelf, look for the disk, get it off the shelf, carry it around, put it into a player and watch it. And this is even more true regarding the extras. Me too, I did not watch the extras very often until I had fast and convenient access to them wherever in the house I am.

The price for storage is not really significant compared to the investment for the rest of the equipment and the BDs themselves.

Furthermore, if you do not need/want full BD support, there are lots of players out there much cheaper than the Neo, so you could well go for them instead if the price is an issue.
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post #3051 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ThomasG. View Post

Question then is, what do you need a mediaplayer for anyway?

To have BDs on a server is a matter of convenience, especially when you have HT equipment (including, of course, mediaplayers) in several rooms. It is intentionally made so you do not have to go to the shelf, look for the disk, get it off the shelf, carry it around, put it into a player and watch it. And this is even more true regarding the extras. Me too, I did not watch the extras very often until I had fast and convenient access to them wherever in the house I am.

The price for storage is not really significant compared to the investment for the rest of the equipment and the BDs themselves.

Furthermore, if you do not need/want full BD support, there are lots of players out there much cheaper than the Neo, so you could well go for them instead if the price is an issue.

Sure, but Realtek chip is out of question because audio quality is not as good as on Sigma chip in my personal opinion, so a lot of the cheaper boxes is out. I also want full support for TrueHD and for DTS HD-MA and then we have even fewer to choose from.

Well, the new PCH A-210 do all that I want (maybe not perfectly, but there will always be something better around the corner ). The missis think the picture is more "sharp" on the A-210 compared to the 550 so that´s one up also. Sweden is a little behind when it comes to BD for Swedish titles and for some reason I can not get the 550 to play the Astrid Lindgren DVD collection which plays perfectly on the Tvix, Qnap and the PCH...

Enough about me and my boxes, I hope the 550 gets as good as it first seemed to be

/Mike
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post #3052 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 06:29 AM
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Sure, but Realtek chip is out of question because audio quality is not as good as on Sigma chip in my personal opinion

How can audio quality not be as good? Most people usual the digital outputs?

Anyway, I'm in the same boat as you and looking between the Boxee and the Neo. At the moment I'm favouring the Boxee...
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post #3053 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by csrini1 View Post

popbox,boxee box,wd tv live plus all play bd iso. only thing is pb and bb don't have full menu support for bd iso's.

When I look at the specs for the WD TV Live Plus, I don't see any mention of full menus support for Blu-Rays or for even playing ISO images and I see mention of Dolby Digital and DTS but no mention of DTS HD Master or Dolby Digital TrueHD.

The weird design of the Boxee Box just will NOT pass muster with the wife, so I haven't looked into that.

I'm not familiar with the "popbox". Is that the Popcorn Hour equipment? The closest in capability I see is the substantially more expensive C-200, which a buddy of mine owns and claims does pretty much everything I want but which has such wildly mixed reviews that I don't trust it (it seems split between people who love it and people who absolutely hate it).

I'm really hoping that my 550 (whenever Frys.com manages to get one to ship to me) will do what I want, which is basically to perfectly emulate the CD, DVD and Blu-Ray playback capabilities of my Oppo Blu-Ray player (minus the SACD playback) without having to actually fuss with physical discs. I'm not as concerned as some about streaming media from the internet as I'm such and audio and video snob that I generally avoid lower-resolution, overly compressed media.
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post #3054 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by NeilF View Post

How can audio quality not be as good? Most people usual the digital outputs?

Anyway, I'm in the same boat as you and looking between the Boxee and the Neo. At the moment I'm favouring the Boxee...

I use the digital outputs also, and I fully agree that that would make it the same, but it does not sound the same...or actually I do not hear the same...I have a small hearing disability from the Army so it might be just my ears

Bozzeta has had both the 550 and the Boxee and he prefers the latter as I understand it. I (or rather the missis) want a clean setup and the Boxee´s measurements does not fit, otherwise I would have tried that box also because the Boxee team seems dedicated and listens to the buyers in a way that I feel confidence for. The new AC Ryan Fluxx might also be a great box, but I will be surprised if we see it on this side of summer...

The UI of the 550 has great potential, but I think that the Boxee will overcome it and get closer to XMBC.

The lit remote on the A-210 is fantastic btw!
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post #3055 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 06:42 AM
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"•Zixi (ZVOS) will offer users with a better streaming experience, but only for local media streaming currently. The ZVOS ensures that there is a special handshake between the source and the sink to ensure faster startup time and minimal intermediate buffering delays. As evident, Zixi requires support at the source end too. This is available only on the WNDR3800 currently. There is no plan to get this onto other routers in Netgear's lineup because of the horsepower needed to run the ZVOS"

I would hope they would add this to the WNDR4000 as it has the same processor as the 3800.

Official Netgear Beta Tester
Chicago Illinois, United States
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post #3056 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JerryElbow View Post

The weird design of the Boxee Box just will NOT pass muster with the wife, so I haven't looked into that.

It's not an IR remote, so you can put the unit anywhere, even completely out of site


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsyth View Post

Bozzeta has had both the 550 and the Boxee and he prefers the latter as I understand it.

The interface is a big concern to me too! But having watched videos of the newest Boxee UI, it seems very friendly and nice. Are you suggesting the 550 is even better?

I can't see any video examples of the 550 interface really (eg: on youtube), and the few bits I've seen don't look any better than the Boxee?

The raw horse power of the Boxee also appeals to me for things like photo viewing...
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post #3057 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

Netgear has quite a number of suites booked at the Marriot. I think Netgear's event was probably 'invitation-only', which is why Bob had placed the note earlier.

I was over there today and had a very fruitful interactive session with the program managers.

Here are some updates for you guys on the NTV 550 front:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4110/netgear-ces-2011/2

Oh lord, Cinavia? That's insane. Thank you for the warning. After months of following this thread in anticipation, any thought I had of buying this player when it became more widely available has just been flushed. There is a lot more talk about Cinavia on other threads and in the DVD Fab forum, for those who want to know more. But basically, who is going to buy a media streamer that can't stream the media you bought it for? Sony is running point on Cinavia but it appears just a matter of time before it spreads to all the new releases. From the DVD Fab forum (updated today):

Blu-ray discs known to have Cinavia:
The Losers (Warner Brothers, volume name=THE_LOSERS) (English track only)
The Karate Kid (2010) (Sony, volume name=THE_KARATE_KID) (most of the tracks)
The Other Guys (Sony, 14dec2010) (English track only)
Resident Evil: Afterlife 2D (Sony, 28dec2010) (English track only)
Resident Evil: Afterlife 3D (Sony, 28dec2010) (English track only)
Salt (Sony, 21dec2010) (English track only)
The Social Network (Sony, 11jan2011) (English track only)
Takers (Sony, 18jan2011) (English track only)

They've been trying for 5 months to crack Cinavia.

Cinavia is being required with a BDA license and the only reason one needs a BDA license is to play commercial encrypted BD Video disks -- i.e. BD players. You don't need a BDA license to play unencrypted BD rips with full menu support -- i.e. media streamers. So Netgears "product vision" of a combo media streamer/disk player will result in a failed product (just like it will for the Dune) for people who already have a good BD player and just want a full function media streamer with full BD support.

What a frigging disappointment, Netgear.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #3058 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 06:52 AM
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Cinavia would really be a horrible thing to unleash onto this player, most everybody puts there movies on hard drives like myself.Striping out what i don't want from the discs.
Sure there's only 7 movies at the moment that have it but i'm sure there's more to come.

The Losers
The Karate Kid
The Other Guys
Resident Evil: Afterlife
Salt
The Social Network
Takers

(You beat me to it Kelson)
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post #3059 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 07:38 AM
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cinavia would really be a horrible thing to unleash onto this player, most everybody puts there movies on hard drives like myself.striping out what i don't want from the discs.
Sure there's only 7 movies at the moment that have it but i'm sure there's more to come.

The losers
the karate kid
the other guys
resident evil: Afterlife
salt
the social network
takers

(you beat me to it kelson)


game over
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post #3060 of 6246 Old 01-07-2011, 07:46 AM
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game over

Can someone explain this issue?
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