Netgear NeoTV 550 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by etrin View Post

anyone have a side by side list of features on the boxee/neo ?
I was going to say promised and working but the promised side would be WAY TO LONG LOL

Neo will be out in mid October but there are pre order??

Don't have a side by side feature list but the important bits for me are:
netgear silent - boxee noisy
netgear bd playback - boxee no bd playback
netgear run of the mil ir remote - boxee coolest rf remote ever

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Originally Posted by wagabond View Post

But they could also already convert their HD-DVDs to BDISOs using CLownBD (but without Menus) .

It's the bit in brackets that's important. One thing I like about the hd dvd menus is how fast and simple are compared to the bloated java junk.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 720p View Post

Don't have a side by side feature list but the important bits for me are:
netgear silent - boxee noisy
netgear bd playback - boxee no bd playback
netgear run of the mil ir remote - boxee coolest rf remote ever


It's the bit in brackets that's important. One thing I like about the hd dvd menus is how fast and simple are compared to the bloated java junk.

It is probably a bit unfair to call the boxy "noisy" at this point, as the only person here who has seen it said it is silent. That said, it does have a fan, which scares me a bit, and the NTV550 will be silent.

Also, I think we should also say that the boxee has no BD playback NOW, but they are supposedly working on it. Not that "coming soon" is worth much in CE, but it is better than them stating that they are not interested in BD licensing.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:33 AM
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Can't say Boxee is noisy w/o trying. jakmal from AnandTech has already said the Boxee's fan is barely audible. Re: BD playback, I don't need it, but I know others do.

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Old 09-20-2010, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by skro View Post

Robkwil61,

Thanks for all of the info you've been posting.

I was hoping you could give your opinion on the "state of readiness" of your current build. It seems like they are close to having a firmware version that is suitable for launch next month.

Are there any major bugs left?
I know that the esata port wasn't working in previous builds, and they have to get that working before launch. Anything else? Did they mention what they were fixing with bd playback?

Thanks!

Not being privelaged to all the Netgear development going on at HQ, I won't comment as to the state of readiness. It would only be my opinion and I prefer to stick with facts.

They are not so much as fixing bd playback (it does work), but improving performance and fine tuning. The other beta testers have reported small issues with menus on specific bd titles and those are looked into frequently.

I'm not sure what you are refering to when you say the esata port is not working. For external storage or for using an external bd player???

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Old 09-20-2010, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by robkwil61 View Post


I'm not sure what you are refering to when you say the esata port is not working. For external storage or for using an external bd player???

Hi,

Thanks. I thought you mentioned earlier that the esata port for a BD player was not activated yet? Is that true? Maybe I read it in the review posted elsewhere.
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by skro View Post

Hi,

Thanks. I thought you mentioned earlier that the esata port for a BD player was not activated yet? Is that true? Maybe I read it in the review posted elsewhere.

That is correct. The code is not there yet. But I would say that is different than saying it is not working. Not implemented would be more accurate. Of course, I don't have an external BD drive to test with even if the code were present.

I do have an external XBOX 360 HDDVD drive though!

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Old 09-20-2010, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Can't say Boxee is noisy w/o trying. jakmal from AnandTech has already said the Boxee's fan is barely audible. Re: BD playback, I don't need it, but I know others do.

I can say it's noisy because it has a fan opposed to the neo which does not. The sad truth is that fans make noise one way or another. Even the 140mm and 120mm fans I use in my htpcs running crazy low voltage barely spinning still create a whoosh noise, that's air being pushed around.

Now the boxee box is tiny compared to my htpc and plastic and was originally designed for a low powered chip without any active cooling if I'm right. Adding a tiny fan (which means higher rpm for the same cfm equals more noise) was an afterthought.

Boxee could have easily designed a bigger alloy case with a massive heatsink but chose the easy way out, slapping an fan on.

Remember there is not such a thing as a silent fan, anyone tries to tell you otherwise they lying. I've removed dozens of fans from graphics cards, cpus, switches & what not and replaced them with passive solutions, I hope the same is possible with boxee.
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:56 PM
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Can you tell me if the Neo can output audio to the HDMI/Optical and analog connections simultaneously? I currently have an EVA 8000 and like to pipe music through my receiver via the multi-room function. However, the receiver only has analog inputs for rooms 2 and 3. The current EVA 8000 will only output audio from the digital OR analog outputs but not both....
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:25 PM
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Just to add to that, I'd like to know if it can output video over component and hdmi simultaneously?
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepybill View Post

Just to add to that, I'd like to know if it can output video over component and hdmi simultaneously?

Deleted.
Oops. Wrong thread. Sorry
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 720p View Post


Remember there is not such a thing as a silent fan, anyone tries to tell you otherwise they lying. I've removed dozens of fans from graphics cards, cpus, switches & what not and replaced them with passive solutions, I hope the same is possible with boxee.

The fans in my ATV and Mac Mini are both totally silent. I cannot stand fans and that is the one issue I am concerned about with the BB. The smallness of the case makes this even worse ( if the case is plastic that is also not a good sign). To be fair, most people seem to not be bothered by fan noise and even within a product line you will find different noise levels and type with the same brand of fan. I have purchase so many of these whisper quiet players (and returned them) that I would rather not ever have another media player with a fan. The Boxee Box is quite unique and perhaps worth the inconvenience of returning it if the fan can be heard from 5 feet ( and I mean heard at all). Frankly, I suspect the fan will be an issue (for me).

No media player is perfect. Even higher end Dune players have fans (some of them). The Netgear product not having a fan is nice. They don't sound like a company that knows anything about media players ( Boxee, PCH, Apple, etc...do). Sounds more like WD, Seagate and Patriot. They are using the player to sell hard drives, USB and SSD products.

philip

Edit: I do agree with you though. I don't know why my ATV is totally silent as there are people who complain their ATV's are loud. Same with the older Mac Mini's, though not the new one's.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

The fans in my ATV and Mac Mini are both totally silent.

They don't sound like a company that knows anything about media players ( Boxee, PCH, Apple, etc...do). Sounds more like WD, Seagate and Patriot. They are using the player to sell hard drives, USB and SSD products.

There are always exceptions to the rule and both the ATV and Mac Mini are Mac products. I don't consider macs to be compared to pcs for example. They are many steps beyond, the quality, design, fit, finish, engineering and fans ofcourse cannot be compared.

Same with the touchscreen of the iphone. Give me a phone with a touchscreen and within minutes I'm contemplating for throwing it to the ground so I can see it break into a million pieces unless it's an iphone, that just works.

Netgear is very different to wd/seagate. Those are just hd companies while netgear is a network company (it's in the name). Having owned several of their products I can tell you that network is what they really know about, exactly what I want in a streamer. Ofcourse they have no idea about video/audio but to be honest none of the other companies including pch/dune/etc. do either. Some of the scaling/deinterlacing/colour space conversion/audio/video sync issues/frame drops/judder/stutter/playback at wrong resolution/refresh rate I saw in media players were simply atrocious.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spark666 View Post

Can you tell me if the Neo can output audio to the HDMI/Optical and analog connections simultaneously? I currently have an EVA 8000 and like to pipe music through my receiver via the multi-room function. However, the receiver only has analog inputs for rooms 2 and 3. The current EVA 8000 will only output audio from the digital OR analog outputs but not both....

I haven't tried this but I know my 9150 pumps out audio through HDMI and optical at the same time. Unfortunatly this weekend my Denon AVR1708 has suffered the "red ring of death" and I can't test this.

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Old 09-21-2010, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 720p View Post

Netgear is very different to wd/seagate. Those are just hd companies while netgear is a network company (it's in the name). Having owned several of their products I can tell you that network is what they really know about, exactly what I want in a streamer. Ofcourse they have no idea about video/audio but to be honest none of the other companies including pch/dune/etc. do either. Some of the scaling/deinterlacing/colour space conversion/audio/video sync issues/frame drops/judder/stutter/playback at wrong resolution/refresh rate I saw in media players were simply atrocious.


I have quite a few Netgear networking products and have always been happy with them. They seemed to have teamed up with another company that is familiar with media streaming and they have clearly outlined the specs of their media player. Obviously this is a company not in the same league as PCH, Patriot, etc... and I agree with respect to WD and Seagate, although these two are getting into networking (slowly).

I guess I've always thought of Netgear in terms of switches, NAS units, etc... and so this player seems to have come out of nowhere. Will have to look into it more carefully when they start selling in Canada. The more I ponder a fan in a media player the less appealing the Boxee Box is becoming. My general rule was no fan ever again after any number of fiascoes and attempts to silence various units.

Still, the BB is pretty well the only general media player to come with a decent interface.

Nice to know that there are other people who find fans unacceptable in media rooms

philip
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sleepybill View Post

Just to add to that, I'd like to know if it can output video over component and hdmi simultaneously?

Haven't tried this. No easy way for me to test it either.

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Old 09-21-2010, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

Still, the BB is pretty well the only general media player to come with a decent interface.

That it is, decent remote too, which is why I am monitoring it. I'm used to a decent interface mine looks similar to this http://xbmc.org/skins/aeon/ but to tell you the truth I'd take a fast barebones interface compared to a slow complex fancy once. When the opening credits start rolling I couldn't care less about the interface.
Don't get me wrong after using the Aeon skin for years and trying xtreamer/wdtv type interfaces I thought I've gone from win 7 to win 3.11. If the ntv550 has the speed and functinality that I crave I'm willing to sacrifice the eye candy of the boxee
The more I think about this I probably need to buy both players and then give as a gift the one that doesn't suit me.
Mind says ntv550 but heart goes for bb.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

The Netgear product not having a fan is nice. They don't sound like a company that knows anything about media players ( Boxee, PCH, Apple, etc...do). Sounds more like WD, Seagate and Patriot. They are using the player to sell hard drives, USB and SSD products.

Your statement is confusing to me. So NetGear knows nothing about media players, yet D-Link, another network vendor, does? It is Boxee Box by D-Link, after all.

- kelson h

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Old 09-21-2010, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Your statement is confusing to me. So NetGear knows nothing about media players, yet D-Link, another network vendor, does? It is Boxee Box by D-Link, after all.

From what I understand, Boxee simply partnered with D-Link for manufacturing purposes.

Although I have owned some D-Link products and would have to question how much they really know about networking.

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Old 09-21-2010, 09:08 AM
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And correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't NetGear's first toe in the water with media streamers. I understand their previous offerings weren't very good, but they got experience and with the 550 it looks like they may have learned a bit.

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Old 09-21-2010, 10:58 AM
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Sounds to me like Netgear is serious about the 550.
They want it to work and be one of the best media players offered.

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Old 09-21-2010, 11:04 AM
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correct me here but doesn't the 550 use the same chip as the dune and that chip is being replaced in Q1 2011.
So isn't the 550 outdated as soon as it hits the market.
The best thing about the boxee is its newer chip.

Big thing will be the BD playback...if boxee doesn't get a license( I guess thats what they mean by can't do it ) then its a dead feature.
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etrin View Post

correct me here but doesn't the 550 use the same chip as the dune and that chip is being replaced in Q1 2011.
So isn't the 550 outdated as soon as it hits the market.
The best thing about the boxee is its newer chip.

Big thing will be the BD playback...if boxee doesn't get a license( I guess thats what they mean by can't do it ) then its a dead feature.

Yes, NTV550 uses the same chip as in the Dune, but the Q1 replacement is for enabling HDMI 1.4a and 3D Blu-Ray playback (and accelerating Real Media Decode).

Hardware acceleration for video decode is similar for both the 8642 and CE4100. Of course, the CE4100 has extra horsepower in its Atom host processor compared to the MIPS in 8642. That said, Sigma has more experience in video decode and playback / post-processing compared to Intel. So, PQ might be better on the 8642. We will have to wait and watch for the official release. UI is bound to be better for Boxee, but it will boil down to a matter of personal taste.

NTV550 will be as outdated at introduction as the Boxee Box. Neither of them can do 3D Blu-Ray playback with HDMI 1.4a (which is what the 8646 being introduced in Q1 2011 is for).

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Old 09-21-2010, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

Yes, NTV550 uses the same chip as in the Dune, but the Q1 replacement is for enabling HDMI 1.4a and 3D Blu-Ray playback (and accelerating Real Media Decode).

Hardware acceleration for video decode is similar for both the 8642 and CE4100. Of course, the CE4100 has extra horsepower in its Atom host processor compared to the MIPS in 8642. That said, Sigma has more experience in video decode and playback / post-processing compared to Intel. So, PQ might be better on the 8642. We will have to wait and watch for the official release. UI is bound to be better for Boxee, but it will boil down to a matter of personal taste.

NTV550 will be as outdated at introduction as the Boxee Box. Neither of them can do 3D Blu-Ray playback with HDMI 1.4a (which is what the 8646 being introduced in Q1 2011 is for).

8646 is still hdmi 1.3a. Also you didn't mention GbE, which is one of the highlights of the new chip along with the beefier cpu/3d/etc.
Mentioning Intel and PQ in the same sentence sends shivers down my spine. I still have nightmares from my Intel g35 days.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 720p View Post

8646 is still hdmi 1.3a. Also you didn't mention GbE, which is one of the highlights of the new chip along with the beefier cpu/3d/etc.
Mentioning Intel and PQ in the same sentence sends shivers down my spine. I still have nightmares from my Intel g35 days.


From a streaming perspective, GbE is overkill. The specifics discussed previously. But from a marketing standpoint, sounds really good. Now, if a device is going to have any internal or external storage, accessible over a network then GbE might be advantageous. Of course, it will still have to have a beefy enough process to handle the protocol and data transer. But I don't think you'll see too many more new designs for media streamers that will include internal storage. It's too limited. But overall, my guess is Sigma put GbE primarily as a marketing trick. Or perhaps their chip is used in other applications where GbE is needed and the streamer manufacturers will use it as a marketing trick. Because faster is always better.. Right?

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Old 09-21-2010, 01:06 PM
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So are you saying that Gigabit Ethernet is actually overkill for streaming? Do you mean it's the processing power of the media streamers that determine whether or not it can handle higher bitrate rips and NOT a networking bottleneck? I'm still kinda new to all this, so I may be confused.

As far as the Netgear, it appears it will have a prettier, "XBMC-like" interface with coverart, correct? It's the only thing I miss with my Seagate FAT+. (I don't honestly care about audio - I don't have a surround system anyhow.)
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Irishdoom View Post

So are you saying that Gigabit Ethernet is actually overkill for streaming? Do you mean it's the processing power of the media streamers that determine whether or not it can handle higher bitrate rips and NOT a networking bottleneck? I'm still kinda new to all this, so I may be confused.

I would say, yes, but in theory Gigabit Ethernet is supposed to be better at streaming higher resolution media on multiple units at the same time.
How many here do that?
I don't.

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Old 09-21-2010, 02:02 PM
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I see. So it's likely more an issue of the processor handling the stream from the networking port then outputting to the display. With my Seagate FAT+, for instance, Kelson has indicated that high bitrate files play without a hitch through the USB port, but cause problems even when hardwired to the network. I'd assume that USB has better throughput to the processor than the NIC in these boxes.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Irishdoom View Post

I see. So it's likely more an issue of the processor handling the stream from the networking port then outputting to the display. With my Seagate FAT+, for instance, Kelson has indicated that high bitrate files play without a hitch through the USB port, but cause problems even when hardwired to the network. I'd assume that USB has better throughput to the processor than the NIC in these boxes.

Correct. Or, possibly, that the firmware has been optimised for USB streaming and not for network streaming.

If people stop and think about it. If the Neo needed gigabit in order to be able to stream high bitrate content properly don't you think netgear would have added a gigabit NIC? It would make no sense to "cripple" a streamer by taking shortcuts and only going with a 100 meg NIC.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:35 PM
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Are there any existing players that CAN handle high bitrate rips over a regular 10/100 backbone?
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robkwil61 View Post

From a streaming perspective, GbE is overkill. The specifics discussed previously. But from a marketing standpoint, sounds really good. Now, if a device is going to have any internal or external storage, accessible over a network then GbE might be advantageous. Of course, it will still have to have a beefy enough process to handle the protocol and data transer. But I don't think you'll see too many more new designs for media streamers that will include internal storage. It's too limited. But overall, my guess is Sigma put GbE primarily as a marketing trick. Or perhaps their chip is used in other applications where GbE is needed and the streamer manufacturers will use it as a marketing trick. Because faster is always better.. Right?

I respectfully disagree. I don't want internal storage but I want GbE for various reasons which I won't go into. The best analogy I can think of at the moment is: If only you drive at 70mph at most but you don't buy a car with a top speed of 100mph. You choose to buy a car that has a top speed of 150mph. As an added bonus you get better quality/equipment/features etc. with the faster car. Remember both cars will do 70mph.
Same with GbE and yes I have several cat7 runs at home with a separate dedicated switch for my 100mbps devices, don't ask why. If any of you are using wifi and can't make sense of what I'm on about lets just say 100mbps wired will be insanely fast to what you're used to so GbE doesn't and shouldn't matter.
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