Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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post #421 of 3108 Old 11-28-2010, 04:13 PM
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pmcd, thanks for the info on EyeTV. From my reading of their website, I had the impression that converting to an Apple TV (or iPhone/iPad) compatible format was always an extra step, which I figured could add significant time, but it sounds like that's not the case for you. I'm wondering though if your experience is specific to the component-in EyeTV hardware since this, by its nature, must require analog-to-digital conversion (I think). So I'm wondering if pairing the EyeTV software with an HDTV OTA USB tuner (or two) would allow for the same direct-to-aTV-compatible format, or if that would always require recording as-is in a full-bandwidth digital format, and then a 2nd pass to convert it to an aTV-friendly format. Other than the added cost of the component-in box, I'd also prefer the flexibility of recording more than one channel at a time. I already own a few Hauppauge HDTV OTA USB sticks, so I'd love to be able to leverage those. I don't have high hopes, though.

Also, it looks like the EyeTV software has an annual subscription cost for the TV Guide software (granted, it doesn't cost much). More significantly, it requires a Mac (which I don't have).

The Hauppauge component-in box appears to be identical hardware to the EyeTV's, and offers Windows software, but I suspect that the mp4 format it supports may not be Apple TV compatible, simply because they don't go out of the way to claim that it is (they state that it's compatible with the XBox 360). But it's certainly possible that they're just poor at touting its capabilities. That would still leave me with the issue of it only supporting recording a single show at once.

Scott R
--------------
I'd much rather watch a great movie in B&W at 240 lines of resolution than a lousy movie in 1080p with lossless audio.
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post #422 of 3108 Old 11-28-2010, 07:49 PM
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Went back a few pages and didn't see this posted yet. Anyways- for those who haven't read, if you want to modify your iPad, all video apps can be air played to the atv (yep, airvideo included).. Apparently, this ability was in the code all along it was just disabled.. Haven't tried it myself, but kinda cool.
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post #423 of 3108 Old 11-29-2010, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srauly
pmcd, thanks for the info on EyeTV. From my reading of their website, I had the impression that converting to an Apple TV (or iPhone/iPad) compatible format was always an extra step, which I figured could add significant time, but it sounds like that's not the case for you. I'm wondering though if your experience is specific to the component-in EyeTV hardware since this, by its nature, must require analog-to-digital conversion (I think). So I'm wondering if pairing the EyeTV software with an HDTV OTA USB tuner (or two) would allow for the same direct-to-aTV-compatible format, or if that would always require recording as-is in a full-bandwidth digital format, and then a 2nd pass to convert it to an aTV-friendly format. Other than the added cost of the component-in box, I'd also prefer the flexibility of recording more than one channel at a time. I already own a few Hauppauge HDTV OTA USB sticks, so I'd love to be able to leverage those. I don't have high hopes, though.

Also, it looks like the EyeTV software has an annual subscription cost for the TV Guide software (granted, it doesn't cost much). More significantly, it requires a Mac (which I don't have).

The Hauppauge component-in box appears to be identical hardware to the EyeTV's, and offers Windows software, but I suspect that the mp4 format it supports may not be Apple TV compatible, simply because they don't go out of the way to claim that it is (they state that it's compatible with the XBox 360). But it's certainly possible that they're just poor at touting its capabilities. That would still leave me with the issue of it only supporting recording a single show at once.
The Hauppauge box is very similar, but is larger. As I recall it has a pass thru video and audio which allows you to record on the computer even if the TV is going directly to the TV.

The EyeTV HD that I use requires a Mac and a component out STB. It does not require reencoding at all for the iPad. Now the Hauppauge box can also be used on a Mac and driven by EyeTV so I am sure it can output mp4/m4v. I guess it is just a software issue. mp4 files that play on the XBox play on the ATV ( just that audio issue to consider) so it sounds fine.

The OTA USB dongle is very neat. I have been thinking of getting one. That would allow recording more than one thing at a time as you mentioned. You should look into software that supports your OTA USB sticks. Something must produce mp4 and if it does the ATV2 will play it. The only catch might be the AAC audio which I need since I don't have an AC3 decoder receiver.

The TV guide subscription is optional. They give you a year for free. The sw will work with other guides.

As far as the two stage issue with OTA to USB using the dongle, I think ElGato has different versions of the hardware. One does transcoding on the fly while the other just passes through the streams as is.

It's all very complicated, but it sounds like you and hopefully I are on the right path...

Philip
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post #424 of 3108 Old 11-29-2010, 08:16 PM
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I just wanted to add a little tip for making your home theater really pop when using an Apple TV. I used the script "Save album art to album folder" in iTunes and exported the cover art from all of my movies and TV shows to a folder. http://dougscripts.com/351

Once I had the raw files I dumped them into an album in iPhoto. The only album that I make available to the ATV2 via Home Sharing is the cover art folder. I am often reminded of movies I've forgotten about when the screensaver is on and it looks awesome in the theater.
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post #425 of 3108 Old 12-01-2010, 09:48 AM
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The new ios 4.1 fixed all of my wireless network problems. Now i can use the apple tv (g2) with in my whole house system - had to get a gefen digital to rca converter ($60) and i an now a happy camper. I'm only using the apple tv to stream music from a pc and i'm using the remote app on my iphone to control it.

This is a much cheaper way to go than buying another ipod classic or ipod touch. I also can stream music from my iphone via airplay. I have to admit - pretty slick!!
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post #426 of 3108 Old 12-01-2010, 06:37 PM
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Check this third party upgrade for the apple tv. Very cool what it can do. Watch the video and see how it all works and the things you can do with it.

http://firecore.com/atvflash-black
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post #427 of 3108 Old 12-02-2010, 10:01 AM
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i have atv on my apple tv (g1) and have found most of the stuff just fair. Its difficult to use with out a keyboard. and crashes a lot.

what they really need to do is change the text menus to icons and then use the arrow keys (or a iphone keyboard/mouse app) to move around the screen.

I have the Remote HD app on my iphone but it doesn't work that well on the g1.

I wouldn't say that atv was a waste of money, but it needs a lot of work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothjake View Post

Check this third party upgrade for the apple tv. Very cool what it can do. Watch the video and see how it all works and the things you can do with it.

http://firecore.com/atvflash-black

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post #428 of 3108 Old 12-02-2010, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikeb View Post

i have atv on my apple tv (g1) and have found most of the stuff just fair. Its difficult to use with out a keyboard. and crashes a lot.

what they really need to do is change the text menus to icons and then use the arrow keys (or a iphone keyboard/mouse app) to move around the screen.

I have the Remote HD app on my iphone but it doesn't work that well on the g1.

I wouldn't say that atv was a waste of money, but it needs a lot of work.


If they can get atv streaming from a NAS it'll be worth it. But then, the sound out of the Apple TV via ALAC is really lousy when compared with the actual CD. I was definitely surprised how compressed it sounded for lossless.

-H
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post #429 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge-Hog View Post

...the sound out of the Apple TV via ALAC is really lousy when compared with the actual CD. I was definitely surprised how compressed it sounded for lossless.

Whoa - that's interesting. Has anyone else had the same experience?

Upgraditis Anonymous
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post #430 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 08:26 AM
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I just picked up an atv..so as of now there is no nas streaming support?
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post #431 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge-Hog View Post

... But then, the sound out of the Apple TV via ALAC is really lousy when compared with the actual CD. I was definitely surprised how compressed it sounded for lossless.

-H

This caught my attention as well...

Hedge-Hog, are you using a 1-g or 2-g Apple TV? If you're using a 2-g can you give us some details on your setup? Is the Apple TV plugged in directly to your receiver? Are you using optical or HDMI?

Thanks
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post #432 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 09:55 AM
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you are correct - on the g1, sound was fair at best for music transferred to the g1. But, when streaming to the g1 or g2 - sound is perfect as long as you turn off all equalization on the computer.

I only noticed the problem after installing mezzmo and streaming music via dlna to a sony blu-ray player. Music was much better when streamed to the sony.

I screwed around with itunes and finally got the apple tvs to sound perfect.

i have the apple tv hooked up to a denon 4308 via hdmi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge-Hog View Post

If they can get atv streaming from a NAS it'll be worth it. But then, the sound out of the Apple TV via ALAC is really lousy when compared with the actual CD. I was definitely surprised how compressed it sounded for lossless.

-H

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post #433 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 09:56 AM
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no nas

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicski View Post

I just picked up an atv..so as of now there is no nas streaming support?

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post #434 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 12:33 PM
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Howdy,

Here's my current setup. All music ripped from original CD under iTunes 10.1 (Windows 7 64-bit) in Apple Lossless format. They are stored on a QNAP NAS. In anticipation of the Apple TV, I spent 3 weeks ripping all my discs...was so hoping this will be a cool/poor-man's version of the Olive HD or Meridian Sooloos. Talk about a let down.

It's the new Apple TV (black) with the 4.1 update and audio settings for DD to ON (not sure if cd sound makes any difference with that). The Apple TV is connected via HDMI to my Classe Audio SSP-800 pre/pro and then the CA-5200 amp via XLR. Speakers are B&W 802Di/HTM2Di/CCM-818 and JL Audio Fathom F113 sub. But for the stereo listening test I used strictly the 802Di in full range. Oh, the video output is from SSP-800 to a Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO-151FD.

First thing I noticed was that though all audio got nicely ripped to 44.1KHz ALAC files, the Apple TV outputs the audio as 48KHz signal. So it is doing some conversion and not streaming. My pre/pro reads PCM 48KHz.

A standard test song I used was The Eagle's Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over. Using the Apple TV, it sounded cleaned but sterile. Like a good recording but definitely did not feel live. We tried other files and they all sounded like good MP3s. Given it's now very easy to compare, I popped in the same disc into my Oppo BDP-83 (connected via HDMI) and played the same song. It sounded SO much better. There was spaces between the guitars. We tried other material - Diana Krall, Bebe Gilberto, Dream Theater, In Flames, Pagannini, etc...same results.

The conclusion, at the moment, is that the Apple TV makes a convenient jukebox for background music (it still sounds decent) but for critical listening it's back to the disc.

On a side note: I just called Apple Support and they have no clue what is a recommended setting for quality audio output. His words: "we're not audiophiles in tech support". He did suggest trying Toslink since they "thinks" that optical out bypasses some algorithm. Guess, that's what I'm gonna try next. But, he also said Toslink will bypass audio out on the HDMI (so it only carries video). I was pretty sure Toslink lacks the bandwidth for 5.1 so will it down-convert all movie audio?

Let's see if anyone else tried similar comparisons.

Thx,
-H
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post #435 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 01:02 PM
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Hedge-Hog:

After reading your post, i checked my apple tv for output. My Denon 4308ci states that it is receiving 2 channel 44.1. I then compared the original cd (on a sony bdp-s470) to my apple tv - sounds the same through my Denon 4308ci. Then checked the sound to output of the same track from a computer straight to my Denon - sounds the same. Then compared it to streamed output via dlna - same sound.

Maybe you have something wrong in your setup. Now, when i set the PC to output at 48 -then the pc to denon sounds a little odd. Kind of like too much treble.

Everything in my system is connected via hdmi to my denon.
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post #436 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge-Hog View Post
First thing I noticed was that though all audio got nicely ripped to 44.1KHz ALAC files, the Apple TV outputs the audio as 48KHz signal.
Resampling is a known issue with both ATVs. The ATV-1g resamples to 44.1KHz and the ATV-2g resamples to 48KHz. However despite annecdotal evidence I've not seen any properly designed studies that demostrate that re-sampling up produces perceptible audible artifacts.

Quote:
I was pretty sure Toslink lacks the bandwidth for 5.1 so will it down-convert all movie audio?
No, optical/coax connections were all we had before HDMI. They won't carry multi-channel lossless audio but AC3/5.1 is fine.
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post #437 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 01:38 PM
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here is an example of one of my files in itunes.

Kind: Apple Lossless audio file
Size: 28.7 MB
Bit Rate: 983 kbps
Sample Rate: 44.100 kHz
Channels: Sterio
Sample Size: 16 bit
Encoded with: Itunes v6.0.4.2

Here is an example of a downloaded one from itunes
Kind: Purchased AAC audio file
Size: 10.3 MB
Bit Rate: 256 kbps
Sample Rate: 44.100 kHz
Channels: Sterio
Sample Size: doesnt say
Encoded with: doesnt say
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post #438 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 02:51 PM
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Hmm...what settings are there other than the default audio setting? I don't recall anywhere that one can specify type of audio output but I may have glossed over it.

Thx again.

-H
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post #439 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 04:41 PM
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Okey dokey...just tried the Toslink...no diff. Here are a couple of screen grabs.

Original Config: HDMI in for video and audio. Pre/pro says PCM 48K.


Toslink Config: HDMI in for video and Optical for audio. Pre/pro says PCM 48K.


I also tried setting video input to None just in case it confused the pre/pro. Same dealie...didn't bother with a picture for that one.

GRRRRRR.....

-H
LL
LL
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post #440 of 3108 Old 12-03-2010, 04:59 PM
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I've also been playing around with audio and all I'm getting is PCM 48 with HDMI.

In regards to video, are there any known ways of getting a linux box to emulate itunes? so one could just dump a bunch of files on a sever...sorta of like a NAS, but with some extra services running.
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post #441 of 3108 Old 12-04-2010, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicski View Post

In regards to video, are there any known ways of getting a linux box to emulate itunes? so one could just dump a bunch of files on a sever...sorta of like a NAS, but with some extra services running.

I don't think so. Many of the Linux based servers will output music that a computer iTunes can play. Mu ATV has never been able to read those playlists. Video has not worked so far.

You could always use a WHS and somehow run iTunes on it though it wouldn't be running as a service and I am not sure how stable that would be. Or just use an older Mac Mini, no monitor, no keyboard.

philip
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post #442 of 3108 Old 12-04-2010, 07:23 PM
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Is there a way to connect the ATV to a speaker without an external optical to rca converter?

philip
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post #443 of 3108 Old 12-05-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

Is there a way to connect the ATV to a speaker without an external optical to rca converter?

philip

The only audio outputs are hdmi and optical.


Also has anyone noticed video/audio sync issues? Last night I was streaming a 720p blu-ray rip from handbrake, and the audio came out of sync. The file itself is fine though, but I'm going to do some more tests today.
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post #444 of 3108 Old 12-05-2010, 10:45 AM
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here is a pic of my screen - as i said - 44,1
LL
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post #445 of 3108 Old 12-05-2010, 03:08 PM
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Thx for the grab...is your's an ATV G2? My interface does not look anything like that. I don't recall anywhere during playback where it displays the sampling frequency. (or is that a Denon feature?)

Anyhoo, where would you set 44.1 for audio out on the ATV G2? I checked the files, they say 44.1KHz Apple Lossless on them so it's strictly somethig the ATV is doing.

And also, Atomicksi is also getting 48K. In fact, if one googles "Apple TV not bit perfect", there's a few hits confirming such.

Cheers,
-H
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post #446 of 3108 Old 12-05-2010, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikeb View Post

here is a pic of my screen - as i said - 44,1

My HDMI (I haven't check optical) attached ATV-2g (to a Denon 4311) produces:

AUDIO INPUT SIGNAL
Surround Mode STEREO
Input Signal PCM
Fs 48kHz
Format 2/0/.0

The input file is AAC 16/44.1 at 256K, likewise ACC 26/96 at 2.4M, MP3 16/44.1 at 192K and MP3 16/22.05 at 96k.

I checked DIRECT as well in case there's some bug.
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post #447 of 3108 Old 12-05-2010, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicski View Post


The only audio outputs are hdmi and optical.

Also has anyone noticed video/audio sync issues? Last night I was streaming a 720p blu-ray rip from handbrake, and the audio came out of sync. The file itself is fine though, but I'm going to do some more tests today.

Are there no speaker systems or iPhone docks with optical inputs or are they all analogue?

Philip
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post #448 of 3108 Old 12-05-2010, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

Are there no speaker systems or iPhone docks with optical inputs...

Yes there are but they're uncommon. If you include "sound bars" you have several more choices.
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post #449 of 3108 Old 12-05-2010, 08:57 PM
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This is the apple tv (g1). I have a g2 hooked up to a Denon 4806 in my bedroom but it will not overlay the input signal. I'll hook it up to my 4308 and take a look at the input.

The overlay about the input signal is the Denon 4308's overlay.
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post #450 of 3108 Old 12-05-2010, 10:36 PM
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Aha! No wonder....ATV1 doesn't have this problem. It's only ATV2 that upsamples 44.1KHz to 48KHz. There's lots of complaints about this. One good analogy of this "problem" is comparing it to taking a 640x480 image and changing the resolution to 800x600 or 1024x768. There'll be artifacts in the interpolation. But it seems lots of people are hearing it too.

Thx again for your help, though. I look forward to seeing what you get from putting the G2 in.

Cheers,
-H


Quote:
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This is the apple tv (g1). I have a g2 hooked up to a Denon 4806 in my bedroom but it will not overlay the input signal. I'll hook it up to my 4308 and take a look at the input.

The overlay about the input signal is the Denon 4308's overlay.

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