Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 150 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 226Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #4471 of 4486 Old 02-05-2016, 08:09 AM
Lab Rat
 
thomasfxlt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 820
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
You're conflating device types. I'll imagine that you mean AVRs and note that they can accept many digital inputs but they only output a single analog audio format (ignoring impedance) and a small number of video formats (YCC, RGB or S-video).
My last thought on this (and certainly not trying to be argumentative). They should specify "input formats" and "output formats".

Vizio M80C3
Pioneer Elite SC-95
Xfinity X1
AppleTV Gen 4
Roku 4
Sony Bluray
thomasfxlt is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4472 of 4486 Old 02-05-2016, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bodosom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Frontier
Posts: 6,707
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
My last thought on this (and certainly not trying to be argumentative). They should specify "input formats" and "output formats".
Of course and I agree that they probably should provide that information. It's certainly available for my Denon AVR but the output voltages and current limits to the speakers are not bullet points on the web page -- they're buried in the back of the rather imposing user manual.

It actually surprises me that Apple put pass-through on the ATV3 page. It's the sort of detail I would expect to find in a developer document or how-we-make-it video.
bodosom is offline  
post #4473 of 4486 Old 02-05-2016, 10:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 5,715
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 395 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
Imagine if Denon, Pioneer or Marantz played that game.... We can read all those audio formats but only output to 5.1 DD.
Yep, if I bought a blu ray player from Denon or anyone else, and it converted audio to a format that didn't contain all the data in the bitstream (like flags and meta data for Atmos), or changed the sample rate when converting to multi channel linear PCM, I would return that player and buy one that wasn't crippled in that manner.

But with ATV, unless we change ecosystems, there isn't really an alternative (except to stick with ATV3).

____________________

Build thread & current gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
Looking to buy more Triad speakers. Got some to sell? Hit me up.
nathan_h is offline  
post #4474 of 4486 Old 02-05-2016, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bodosom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Frontier
Posts: 6,707
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
or changed the sample rate when converting to multi channel linear PCM, I would return that player and buy one that wasn't crippled in that manner.

But with ATV, unless we change ecosystems, there isn't really an alternative (except to stick with ATV3).
Except that resampling is happening and, despite the fact that it can happen internally without anyone being any the wiser, people complain about Apple doing it. The Apple TV (and lots of other similar devices) can display photographs. Do people complain that those photos are mapped from one color space to another and return the device?

To be clear: I think Apple (and lots of other companies) could do better but ambiguity on the spec page is a minor issue and is not uncommon in the industry. The current decode/encode process has some real problems and it would be nice if those were fixed before Apple adds a footnote in the specs that says "All output from Apple written apps has been converted to MPCM".
bodosom is offline  
post #4475 of 4486 Old 02-06-2016, 10:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hanesian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Twin Citiesville, MN
Posts: 2,880
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 71
A quick non-audio focused ATV 4 comment.

One single new ATV app has proven to be a game changer for me, and alone made me so happy I bought the new ATV.

I recently upgraded from an ATV3 to an ATV 4 after the old ATV began encountering various problems (random reboots, broken remote, etc.) I considered switching to Roku or something else, but ultimately stuck with Apple because as a family we're pretty invested in the Apple ecosystem (several iPhones, iPads, & computers), so the easy Airplay & mirroring was the deciding factor.

We watch very little live TV - and even that is only OTA - but instead mostly do streaming via Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, Amazon (via our Blu-ray player), etc. so I seriously considered just going with a new ATV3 and saving some money, but ultimately just went with the 4, and I'm so glad I did - especially when I discovered and bought the Channels app (http://getchannels.com/).

When combined with a HDHomerun tuner (which I happened to already own) it allows you to watch, pause, rewind and fast forward live TV - with limits. More specifically, once you're on a particular channel it buffers up to an hour, and within that hour of buffering you can rewind and FF. It also has a very nice program guide included so you can easily see what is currently on whatever channels you get. It does NOT have full DVR functionality, although the developers are apparently working on that as well, so even that may be coming someday. It costs more than most apps - currently being offered for a few more days at an introductory rate of about $15 - but since I already owned the HDHomerun tuner that $15 cost gave me rudimentary Tivo light functionality, and I am thrilled.

I emphasize it is NOT anywhere near full Tivo functionality or sophistication, but for the price it gives me an unbelievably easy and affordable way to finally pause/FF/REW OTA Live TV (works also with cable channels if you have the correct HDHomerun model). The closest I got before required keeping a computer running and buying more expensive, dedicate software, along with a degree of tinkering, patience and technical prowess that I didn't have, and my family showed zero interest in using. This app, by contrast, only requires you to point and click on an Apple TV 4 app - easy, peasey! My daughters were using it immediately with almost zero explanation.

In sum, this new app alone in my opinion makes buying the ATV 4 worthwhile. Hope this helps someone else.
Pvr4Craig and chefklc like this.

The Un-Theater Un-Build
_________________________________
State Certified Alcohol Disposal Expert.

 

hanesian is offline  
post #4476 of 4486 Old 02-07-2016, 11:56 AM
Senior Member
 
LDBetaGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Centerville, OH
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
If the differences are easily noticeable, I would think it's due to a levels mismatch. For example, my Fire TV stick outputs PC Levels, and I've found no way to influence that with my equipment, though I've heard from others that it can output Video Levels under unspecified conditions. The Apple TV lets you choose, though it has weird terminology for Video Levels (RGB High) and PC Levels (RGB Low). I believe it uses Video Levels by default, so I'd either need to change this or put it on a different TV input than the stick. Of course, the TV also has to be configured for whatever the players are outputting. (I actually set my ATV4 to Video Levels to remove any doubt and group it with my normal devices on my AVR, which has two outputs, one of which I use for Video Levels, the other for PC Levels.)
Which may help explain why, at least to my eyes, the built in apps in my Samsung TV provide an even better looking picture than the Apple TV, Fire TV or Roku 4.
LDBetaGuy is offline  
post #4477 of 4486 Old 02-07-2016, 05:59 PM
Lab Rat
 
thomasfxlt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 820
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDBetaGuy View Post
Which may help explain why, at least to my eyes, the built in apps in my Samsung TV provide an even better looking picture than the Apple TV, Fire TV or Roku 4.
Super Bowl Issues:

Video looks good great during the game. There's all kinds of color space issues with the commercials. Black level all washed out on many. I've tried YCbCr, RGB low, Auto. Some ok, many not.

Audio... I'm not getting DD 5.1. Everything comes down as stereo. xFinity feed is fine. Audio sounds better on cable.

Nice experiment but audio was a big disappointment. I'm sticking with the network (xFinity) for today. The audio for half time will be better as well. Get the bugs worked out and it's a knockout blow to anything that requires a local affiliate feed.

Vizio M80C3
Pioneer Elite SC-95
Xfinity X1
AppleTV Gen 4
Roku 4
Sony Bluray
thomasfxlt is online now  
post #4478 of 4486 Old 02-07-2016, 06:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 5,715
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 395 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Except that resampling is happening and, despite the fact that it can happen internally without anyone being any the wiser, people complain about Apple doing it. The Apple TV (and lots of other similar devices) can display photographs. Do people complain that those photos are mapped from one color space to another and return the device?

To be clear: I think Apple (and lots of other companies) could do better but ambiguity on the spec page is a minor issue and is not uncommon in the industry. The current decode/encode process has some real problems and it would be nice if those were fixed before Apple adds a footnote in the specs that says "All output from Apple written apps has been converted to MPCM".
To be clear:

I don't care about the spec sheet. Yes, I wish it were more precise. That would be a useful way to understand where there is something problematic going on.

But what I care about is the behavior of the device. If any of my blu ray or DVD players did what they are doing, and didn't give me the option to hear the audio without molestation, that would be a deal breaker. Unfortunately, there isn't an alternate ATV4 I can go get that doesn't have this problem.

I call the forced re-sampling a problem. It is this re-sampling that creates the audible problems -- like lack of support for current audio formats and one of the cool features of DD+ (carrying object based audio), and the fact that the re-sampling is the most likely source of the other problems.

The spec sheet is 1% of the problem. The behavior of the device is 99% of the problem. A reasonable fail safe would be to have the option to output DD+ bitstream, so that we know it's not screwed up.
LDBetaGuy likes this.

____________________

Build thread & current gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
Looking to buy more Triad speakers. Got some to sell? Hit me up.

Last edited by nathan_h; 02-07-2016 at 06:37 PM.
nathan_h is offline  
post #4479 of 4486 Old 02-09-2016, 05:32 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
Super Bowl Issues:
Audio... I'm not getting DD 5.1. Everything comes down as stereo. xFinity feed is fine. Audio sounds better on cable.
FWIW, you didn't miss much (in that regard). I watched OTA and thought the 5.1 production for the broadcast was pretty weak in general. At one point, I remember checking the AVR to see if the signal was even coming in as 5.1...

//

Jeff Perrin
Author - Surround Speaker Check app for tvOS and the new Apple TV
JeffPerrin is offline  
post #4480 of 4486 Old 02-09-2016, 02:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Neil S. Bulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern California
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 20
NBC and FOX always have better sounding 5.1 football broadcasts.

Neil
Neil S. Bulk is offline  
post #4481 of 4486 Old Yesterday, 02:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tesla1856's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 1,361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
Super Bowl Issues:

Audio... I'm not getting DD 5.1. Everything comes down as stereo. xFinity feed is fine. Audio sounds better on cable.

Nice experiment but audio was a big disappointment.

On TWCable (in HD), noticed audio during Half-Time-Show was poor, like they mixed it wrong or had volume turned down. My point is ... looks like the main feed was bad... very unprofessional.

Living Room Home-Theater:
Epson 8350 1080p Projector (96") / Panasonic TH-46pz850u 46" 1080p Plasma TV
Onkyo TX-sr607 7.2 HDMI Audio/Video Amplifier/Receiver (630 watts)
Panasonic DMP-BD60 Blu-Ray Disc Player / Cisco 8742hdc DVR (TimeWarner)
Harmony 670 Remote / HTPC (Kodi/Win7-64) Media Server PC / Synology 12tb Raid-5 NAS
Polk Audio Monitor Series II Speakers (Large 6.1 Matched Separates) / PSW505 12-Inch Sub
Tesla1856 is offline  
post #4482 of 4486 Old Today, 08:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsskid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,217
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked: 251
Kinda disappointed with the Apple TV 4. I had the ATV3, but couldn't add Kodi. Upgraded so I could use Kodi, and the lag on the ATV4 is horrible compared to my Fire TV 4K.

ISF Calibrator
Samsung PN64F8500
Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD
Pioneer Kuro BDP-320
Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, as they tend to shrink over time.
dsskid is offline  
post #4483 of 4486 Old Today, 10:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
reddice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Netflix is a disaster on the new Apple TV. The picture freezes but the audio continues. When the credits shrink sometimes the app freezes trying to get them full screen. I went back to the Roku for Netflix. However Hulu and HBO Go work great on the new Apple TV and have the best picture quality compared to the other streaming devices.

EarthLink Extreme powered by Time Warner Cable Brooklyn.
Netgear R7000 - DD-WRT v3.0-r29020M (02/04/16) using OpenDNS.
Toshiba 39L2300U - Apple TV 4 (2015), Fire TV (2015), PS4 (2013), Roku 2 (2015).
Cats are the best pets.
reddice is online now  
post #4484 of 4486 Old Today, 02:40 PM
Senior Member
 
jvh4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MAssachusetts
Posts: 230
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post
Netflix is a disaster on the new Apple TV. The picture freezes but the audio continues. When the credits shrink sometimes the app freezes trying to get them full screen. I went back to the Roku for Netflix. However Hulu and HBO Go work great on the new Apple TV and have the best picture quality compared to the other streaming devices.
Interesting I have not experienced this at all. In fact the only service I've had an issue with is HBO GO, I get 15 minute load times once in a while. Not a network issue either, just the app hanging up I think. Force closing the app and restarting the AppleTV fixes it every time.
jvh4 is online now  
post #4485 of 4486 Old Today, 02:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 8,117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Zero Netflix problems for me.
Gary J is online now  
post #4486 of 4486 Old Today, 03:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
ItzMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I briefly encountered that Netflix problem, where audio continued but video was frozen. I stopped and restarted the video and it fixed itself. It may've happened twice. It wasn't a big problem to me.
ItzMe is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming

Tags
Apple Tv Mc572ll A , Apple Tv Md199ll A
Gear in this thread



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off