Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3104 Old 12-06-2010, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge-Hog View Post

One good analogy of this "problem" is comparing it to taking a 640x480 image and changing the resolution to 800x600 or 1024x768. There'll be artifacts in the interpolation.

That actually not a good analogy. Resampling is not interpolation and it's not even non-interpolated scaling. Resampling to a more convenient rate (and then back) can happen in a DAC/digital transform subsystem. Without access to engineering documentation you don't know.

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post #452 of 3104 Old 12-06-2010, 12:50 PM
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drum roll -----------

hooked up my atv2 to my 4308 and ..........................

atv2 does in fact output at 48k rather than 44.1.

apple must be taking lessons from microsoft - put it out there and fix it later (if at all)

also - the sound out of the atv2 did indeed sound mushier.

its a good thing i checked this thread out. I was going to get rid of my atv g1 and get another atv g2 for my main system.
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post #453 of 3104 Old 12-06-2010, 02:58 PM
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Thx for doing the test! I feel better (or at least more sane) now.

I think I'll try to send the same files out from my laptop's iTunes via HDMI and see what it says.

-H

UPDATE: Not that it matters but with the laptop plugged in, I can configure the HDMI audio out to other rates, 16-bit 44.1KHz and 24-bit 44.1KHz. The pre/pro reports the new sampling rate. Plugging the ATV2 back in reverts back to 48KHz (well, duh). Trying AirPlay, with laptop cabled in, stutters a bit and still is stuck @ 48KHz. O well, let's see if Apple is willing to update their f/w to allow bit-perfect out.

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Originally Posted by ikeb View Post
drum roll -----------

hooked up my atv2 to my 4308 and ..........................

atv2 does in fact output at 48k rather than 44.1.

apple must be taking lessons from microsoft - put it out there and fix it later (if at all)

also - the sound out of the atv2 did indeed sound mushier.

its a good thing i checked this thread out. I was going to get rid of my atv g1 and get another atv g2 for my main system.
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post #454 of 3104 Old 12-07-2010, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

This is a known issue with both ATVs. They (or iTunes) resample 44.1 to 48. However despite annecdotal evidence I've not seen any properly designed studies that demostrate that re-sampling up produces perceptible audible artifacts.



No, optical/coax connections were all we had before HDMI. They won't carry multi-channel lossless audio but AC3/5.1 is fine.

Thats just not true. ATV1 outputs 44.1Khz correctly running apples software, boxee or xbmc. This is an issue with ATV2 not 1.

Sean
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post #455 of 3104 Old 12-07-2010, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post

Thats just not true. ATV1 outputs 44.1Khz correctly running apples software, boxee or xbmc. This is an issue with ATV2 not 1.

My bad. Both units resample the output. The 1g resamples to 44.1kHz and the 2g resamples to 48kHz.
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post #456 of 3104 Old 12-09-2010, 06:57 AM
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I proposed this question on my Airplay specific thread, and haven't heard an answer yet:

Will Airplay allow me to stream Rhapsody from my Sony VAIO to my first gen AppleTV, and if not with a 1st gen, will a 2nd gen ATV work?

Or, as I've read elsewhere, will it only stream FROM an apple device?

I know that sounds bizarre but that's what I've read. Surely one can use Airplay on a PC...at least to stream itunes like we could before with Airtunes? Really hoping for third party apps off my laptop as well, but I've ALSO read that (from folks who think it WILL at least stream itunes from a PC) some think third-party apps are/will be limited to iphones/itouches/ipads(?).

sheesh.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #457 of 3104 Old 12-09-2010, 03:02 PM
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Pretty sure AirTunes (or AirPlay now) streams strictly from an Apple product. IOW, iTunes on a PC is okey dokey...not sure about the 1st gen ATV playing though but I know the 2nd gen ATV will.

-H


Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I proposed this question on my Airplay specific thread, and haven't heard an answer yet:

Will Airplay allow me to stream Rhapsody from my Sony VAIO to my first gen AppleTV, and if not with a 1st gen, will a 2nd gen ATV work?

Or, as I've read elsewhere, will it only stream FROM an apple device?

I know that sounds bizarre but that's what I've read. Surely one can use Airplay on a PC...at least to stream itunes like we could before with Airtunes? Really hoping for third party apps off my laptop as well, but I've ALSO read that (from folks who think it WILL at least stream itunes from a PC) some think third-party apps are/will be limited to iphones/itouches/ipads(?).

sheesh.

James

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post #458 of 3104 Old 12-09-2010, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Will Airplay allow me to stream Rhapsody from my Sony VAIO to my first gen AppleTV, and if not with a 1st gen, will a 2nd gen ATV work?

I'm sure AirPlay servers (e.g. my Denon) require a license likewise AirPlay clients (if there are any non-Apple clients). RAOP is protected by encryption (as you'd expect) and requires mutual authentication. Assuming the servers don't all have the same key it's trivial for Apple to control which devices can be servers. Hence ATV-2g and AE can be AirPlay content servers while the ATV-1g is limited to AirTunes.

If you need to stream from your Sony I'd look into something like Airfoil.

Only buy products that do what you want at the time of purchase.
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post #459 of 3104 Old 12-09-2010, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Only buy products that do what you want at the time of purchase.
Ha. If everyone followed that advice, the number of posts in this forum would go down by a good 95%.

I'm always amazed at how many people get seduced by pie-in-the-sky promises from tiny startup companies, then they spend months waiting for the product to ship, then they spend years waiting for new firmware to fix bugs.
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post #460 of 3104 Old 12-10-2010, 01:23 AM
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I´m having issues connecting my ATV2 to my Denon AVR-1610 via HDMi and then sends it to my LG 60PK550. It looks as either the AVR or TV tries to do some converting of the video and I get major stuttering.

If I connect the ATV2 directly to the TV this issue doesnt exists. I have several other devices connected through the Denon and I havent had this issue at all with any of them...

Any advice?
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post #461 of 3104 Old 12-10-2010, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Any advice?

"Video conversion" doesn't cause stuttering.

Check the front panel, the HDMI info page and the relevant Denon thread.
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post #462 of 3104 Old 12-10-2010, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post


Thats just not true. ATV1 outputs 44.1Khz correctly running apples software, boxee or xbmc. This is an issue with ATV2 not 1.

Sean

Both 44.1Khz and 48Khz are well above the Nyquest frequency for accurately sampling an analogue signal in order to turn it into a digital signal. It's been over 35 years since I worked in this so the details are a bit hazy (to me). Now if you start with an analogue signal and sample at 44 you pretty well can replicate the original perfectly. Now compress the digital 44 signal to get mp3 or whatever. If you then sample that at 48 it's not clear whether you lose much as opposed to going analogue to 48 to mp3. It's a pretty neat problem actually.

Philip
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post #463 of 3104 Old 12-12-2010, 05:15 AM
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Just FYI: I currently use airfoil to stream Rhapsody to my ATV1 and it's dreadful.

Frequent drop-outs, high noise floor, static/distortion...simply unacceptable SQ.

Rhapsody though sounds fine when I plug into the laptop and my network is ok...airtunes from the same laptop to the same ATV1 with itunes sounds excellent.

Doesn't leave anything on the table besides Airfoil then.

Im hoping airplay is the solution.

It would really "suck" (lol) to have to get an ipad to duplicate the size/useability of my laptop that I'm looking for. Besides, I've read it (ipad) currently just "blows up" the iphone app and it looks like crap.

Im sure though it's just a matter of time before there's a native ipad app.

That would be kiler: a touch-screen jukebox with 12 million songs.

Cant beat that imo!

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #464 of 3104 Old 12-13-2010, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge-Hog View Post

Pretty sure AirTunes (or AirPlay now) streams strictly from an Apple product. IOW, iTunes on a PC is okey dokey...not sure about the 1st gen ATV playing though but I know the 2nd gen ATV will.

-H

When we say apple product, either a 3rd party app OR PC could mean I'm sol. Now, since Rhapsody already has an airplay-ready app on the iphone/ipad, it's obvious 3rd party apps are ok...now a matter of those apps being able to be run off a PC.

I know I'll eventually end up with an ipad, but it'd be really nice to have this all work with my VAIO, ATM.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #465 of 3104 Old 12-13-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Just FYI: I currently use airfoil to stream Rhapsody to my ATV1 and it's dreadful.

Frequent drop-outs, high noise floor, static/distortion...simply unacceptable SQ.

Rhapsody though sounds fine when I plug into the laptop and my network is ok...airtunes from the same laptop to the same ATV1 with itunes sounds excellent.

Doesn't leave anything on the table besides Airfoil then.

Im hoping airplay is the solution.

It would really "suck" (lol) to have to get an ipad to duplicate the size/useability of my laptop that I'm looking for. Besides, I've read it (ipad) currently just "blows up" the iphone app and it looks like crap.

Im sure though it's just a matter of time before there's a native ipad app.

That would be kiler: a touch-screen jukebox with 12 million songs.

Cant beat that imo!

James

I can't say I have that much trouble with airfoil. Have you tried contacting their tech support team?

Sean
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post #466 of 3104 Old 12-13-2010, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post

I can't say I have that much trouble with airfoil. Have you tried contacting their tech support team?

Sean

Endlessly. In their defense, they have been very proactive about finding a solution...just today they instructed me to try the latest update: 2.8.1

I'm all ears to discover another possible reason for the problem, but consider this:

Using my VAIO laptop on my home network, with itunes song "A" streaming through "AIRTUNES" to my appletv, then to my Denon 4311: No drops, no static/distortion.

Now, using the same laptop, on the same network, with the same itunes song "A" streaming through AIRFOIL to my appletv, then to my Denon 4311:

occasional drops, but worse: song "A" now contains audible static/distortion...especially during opening, quieter, vocal passage.

Only variable changing is AF as far as I can tell. Now of course the obvious solution with itunes is to use airtunes. The problem is though, the identical nasties occur with Rhapsody, of which I of course HAVE to use Airfoil. Ugh!

I know I'm likely a more critical listener than most, but I also know that most on here (like you, sean) would not tolerate this.

Really, really, odd!

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #467 of 3104 Old 12-16-2010, 11:36 AM
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They just released Airfoil 4 today. Perhaps that will address your issues?

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post #468 of 3104 Old 12-17-2010, 06:20 PM
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Folks,

I couldn't find any thread devoted strictly to Netflix, but since I'm using my Apple TV as my first experience of streaming movies I guess I'll ask here:

I signed up with the Netflix free one month trial to test out streaming movies.

Two observations so far:

1. The streaming quality is actually quite nice. I can get into watching a movie streamed at this quality on my projection screen, so that's a nice discovery. (Not that it's going to make my stop buying Blu Ray movies).

2. The selection kinda sucks. Scratch that. It just sucks. It's just reams and reams of crap, sort of like walking into a particularly bad video store, or digging through those piles of DVD movies you see in bins at the Drug Store, most of them ancient or "what the hell is this?" stuff. I had assumed (mistakenly?) that the access to streamed movies would mirror that of renting the actual disc at a video store. But no...there seems to be quite a limited choice.

I can rent Inception at any video store but can't find it available on Netflx. I type on The Hangover...not available. The available movies just don't seem to come close to mirroring the type of selection I get walking into practically any video store.

Is this really the state of affairs with Netflix streaming? Or am I in some Movie Black Hole or something?

Thanks,
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post #469 of 3104 Old 12-17-2010, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness
Folks,

I couldn't find any thread devoted strictly to Netflix, but since I'm using my Apple TV as my first experience of streaming movies I guess I'll ask here:

I signed up with the Netflix free one month trial to test out streaming movies.
[ ]
Is this really the state of affairs with Netflix streaming? Or am I in some Movie Black Hole or something?

Thanks,
They can't stream anything for at least 30 or 60 days after the release of the physical DVD. Perhaps that explains part of your disappointment.

We actually find it quite convenient, but there is no question that you would get a better selection from hunting down physical disks.

I don't keep track of when things come out, with some exceptions, so it is basically all new to us. I am still impressed at the quality of the streaming to the ATV. Observing that is part of the enjoyment

Maybe the iTunes store would provide you with a better fix for new releases, but then you have to pay for the fix.

Philip
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post #470 of 3104 Old 12-17-2010, 06:46 PM
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Is this really the state of affairs with Netflix streaming? Or am I in some Movie Black Hole or something?
What do you realistic expect for $7.95 a month (unlimited viewing versus being mail restricted and heavy user delays)? Netflix streaming isn't about new releases. For some quality suggestions try here...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18045731
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post #471 of 3104 Old 12-17-2010, 07:58 PM
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Ah..ok...as I said I'm new to the streaming stuff. I guess I actually bought some of the hype about streaming movies being the new sh#t that I was expecting more. I guess it just isn't "there" yet in terms of content. (ETA: A little research is indicating that we get even less selection here in Canada).
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post #472 of 3104 Old 12-17-2010, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Is this really the state of affairs with Netflix streaming? Or am I in some Movie Black Hole or something?
Streaming movies from almost all sources is one of the last release windows. The US vs CA selection may also be different although presumably not for the better.
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post #473 of 3104 Old 12-17-2010, 09:32 PM
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Streaming movies from almost all sources is one of the last release windows. The US vs CA selection may also be different although presumably not for the better.

True, the Canadian selection is far smaller at this point. Netflix in Canada is building up a library but that takes time. The US library is much larger though it still consists mainly of movies/TV shows that are older than what we can get with a cable movie package up here in Canada. We really like netflix though. It's a very reasonable service for the price.

philip
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post #474 of 3104 Old 12-21-2010, 09:37 AM
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1 million Apple TVs in the wild... also...

Apple says 400,000 TV shows and 150,000 movies are either rented or purchased daily through Apple TV.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ion-in-sales/1
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post #475 of 3104 Old 12-21-2010, 01:17 PM
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1 million Apple TVs in the wild... also...

Apple says 400,000 TV shows and 150,000 movies are either rented or purchased daily through Apple TV.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ion-in-sales/1

I assume that is just ATV's 2G? I wonder how many of the original ATV's were sold? In any case, that number is really getting there. I do wish that AirPlay would be refined. It's not yet what I personally had hoped. Still neat but not a game changer, yet. Also, of course apps would seal everything.

Thanks for the link.

Philip
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post #476 of 3104 Old 12-21-2010, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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1 million Apple TVs in the wild

I added a link to the Apple press release in post 2.
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post #477 of 3104 Old 12-21-2010, 02:19 PM
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I have my Apple TV 2 connected via hdmi to my pioneeer elite. I am only getting stereo output from multi channel movies. I have heard that if I want my movies to play in dolby surround I need to have ATV2 connected via the optical output, is this true or is there something I need to change in the settings either on ATV or my receiver?

if true its pretty damn lame that ATV2 can't output surround via hdmi.

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post #478 of 3104 Old 12-21-2010, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
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if true its pretty damn lame that ATV2 can't output surround via hdmi.

It does support surround sound via HDMI. Just google for it and you'll get several threads on Apple's support forums dealing with that.

Philip
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post #479 of 3104 Old 12-21-2010, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
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I added a link to the Apple press release in post 2.

I never really looked at that post. A lot of interesting links there.

Philip
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post #480 of 3104 Old 12-21-2010, 04:32 PM
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I googled but nothing explains to me why I am not getting surround sound when streaming dolby digital 5.1 films to my apple tv connected to my receiver via HDMI.
I am only getting stereo

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