Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 190 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5671 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 08:27 AM
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A few musings after another night of using the device:

I'm surprised that Apple was so afraid of output switching. When you go to settings and change DV/60 to HDR/60 or whatnot, this box has some of the fastest and most stable connection establishment I've seen.

I did get the DV tags in Netflix. I had to actually play a piece of content in DV, now they show up as expected.

Showed my wife Deadpool on UHD BD vs. iTunes HDR and she couldn't tell a difference.

Watched a couple episodes of Narcos S3 on Netfix (UHD only show) with output set to DV/60. It actually looked good to me. I liked the added HDR conversion, although I didn't directly A/B compare.

Panning, judder, and such were non-issues on my P75 without output set at 60 Hz. Although, still had lip sync issues. Running at 24 Hz output negated lip sync concerns though.

Interface doesn't actually look all that bad at 24 Hz anyway. Auto switching would be so good though to get a 60 Hz UI and 24 Hz locked lip sync video.
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post #5672 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 08:30 AM
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Has anyone tried routing the ATV 4K through a HDMI splitter to route video to the TV / projector and audio to their receiver? If so does it still pass Dolby Vision?
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post #5673 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 08:31 AM
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Here is a tip.

If using Netflix on the Apple TV, add a ‘Netflix profile’ labelled something like "HDR’ and then add HDR titles you are interested in.

That way you know every title in that profile requires a Video Format change setting on the Apple TV to [4k HDR]. You can do a Netflix search with ‘HDR’ and it will list all HDR Titles. Less than 50 in the UK, so not much.




AND, it also helps when watching content in other “Netflix profiles’ you can simply leave in SDR.
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post #5674 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post
Is anyone else being required to reactivate HBO Go on all their Apple devices? ATV2, ATV3, iPhone, iPad, all, not a month after doing it already.
I didn't notice this with the HBO Go app specifically, but having to re-authenticate into all the apps is the bane of streaming. I'm sick of being forced to do this all the time. I was hoping single sign-on would have a more significant positive impact.

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post #5675 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
Regarding CEC, I tried using this as I want to be able to use the Apple remote and have it turn my TV/preamp on/off.

It does work, but the Apple TV seems to just turn things on for no reason. I shut things down, set the remote down, walk away, and then come back to find the TV on.

Anyone else see that? Any suggestions? I'm using a Vizio P75 and a Marantz AV7702mkII.
I have that same issus with Apple TV and SONY TV’S [SONY ZD9 & SONY XE930]. But it was ok with some LG and Samsung TV’s.
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post #5676 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 08:37 AM
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I didn't notice this with the HBO Go app specifically, but having to re-authenticate into all the apps is the bane of streaming. I'm sick of being forced to do this all the time.
Same issue on my Roku. Once in a while streaming apps sign you out. Doesn't Apple TV have single sign-on?
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post #5677 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dojoman View Post
Same issue on my Roku. Once in a while streaming apps sign you out. Doesn't Apple TV have single sign-on?
Single sign-on seems to be remembering my provider, my e-mail, and my password... but each app seems to periodically force me to the provider's page to validate with a 5-6 digit code. Perhaps my provider is the issue, not sure. There is benefit, but it's limited.

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post #5678 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by brentsg View Post
Single sign-on seems to be remembering my provider, my e-mail, and my password... but each app seems to periodically force me to the provider's page to validate with a 5-6 digit code. Perhaps my provider is the issue, not sure. There is benefit, but it's limited.
I don't have the new Apple TV but so you would have to go to HBOGo activation page and then enter the code again? I thought the point of single signon is to not having to do this. It's very annoying especially if you have same network that shares many channels. Discovery ch has Nationally Geographic, Discovery, and Science ch. If one signs out others sign out too.
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post #5679 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:00 AM
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Having used the ATV 4K for a while now, been reading up on it, and getting some things straight in my head here is what I've learned about the major complaints about it.

1. Lack of bitstream/HD audio/Dolby Atmos

First, set the ATV 4K Audio to Best Quality if it is going into your AVR. Nothing else makes sense. This allows the ATV to decode the audio rather than your AVR doing it. Setting the ATV to Dolby means ATV decodes the audio then recodes the audio then your AVR will decode it again.

Second, since I know of no streaming services that provide HD Audio or Atmos I assume the issue here is for local media only. I'd recommend Infuse (there are others) that will decode the DTS-MA/TrueHD/what have you audio on the ATV and send it as PCM. Yes you won't get the pretty branding light on your AVR but whether Infuse on the ATV or your AVR decodes the audio is irrelevant for the most part. You will get HD audio out of your ATV. See here https://support.firecore.com/hc/en-u...-Options-tvOS-. If your someone who likes the post processing effects your AVR can provide then at least my Denon can apply those to LPCM as well as any other format.

Finally, Dolby Atmos is an issue, there's no way around that at the moment to my knowledge. Give it time if you ask me.

2. Auto Selecting Correct Frame Rate

You do of course have the option of doing this manually but that is less than ideal. At least there is the manual option unlike Rokus and Fire TVs.

However, and I can only speak for my LG 2016 and Denon S920W but this is a non-issue with that setup. Make sure you have Real Cinema On and TruMotion set to User with De-Judder at 0 on the LG. This will kick in the LG's processing to deal with a 60Mhz stream to process as if it was 24Mhz for 24fps sources. It will undo any pulldown and display the picture at 120Mhz. There is no difference in what the panel displays between this and a 24Mhz (or 30Mhz for that matter) signal.

In summation this is a non-issue on LGs if set correctly. Other TVs may vary. There is no need to change the refresh rate manually to avoid 3:2 pulldown. The TV will do it for you. The judder you see will only be the natural judder of 23.976.

Believe me I had a TV that did not do this correctly and getting the right refresh rate from the source was critical. That's not so true anymore with most modern 4K TVs.

3. SDR to HDR conversion

Again, you have the option of changing this manually. Again, less than ideal.

However, first try checking the HDR Picture settings on your TV. Turn off all the special processing crap like dynamic contrast and edge enhancer and stuff just as you would for your SDR picture settings. The key one to reset properly is Color Gamut. It should be set to Normal. I know that doesn't seem right but this video has proven true.

Having done that play some SDR content with the default HDR setting that the ATV 4K gave you. They are not equal but 90% of the bad stuff goes away such as over saturation, over sharpening, etc.

Not only will it get you a better picture for HDR source, it provides you with a fairly pleasing SDR to HDR conversion much like a pleasing 1080 to 4K upscale. Yes, for purists it is not the original but to my eyes it's like getting pretty close to an HDR version of the content. It is better on 4K SDR sources than 1080 SDR sources but is pretty decent in both cases. It brings out the film grain a little on 1080 SDR sources. Try it an see if you like it or not. I originally hated it but having watched a couple of 4K SDR episodes of Narcos with the HDR setting I never noticed anything bad happening to the PQ and going back to 4K SDR looks flat to me now.

Now that I've got my settings on the TV right this is again a non-issue for me so far. Time will tell if other sources will annoy me but at least Netflix, HBO, and CBS were fine.

4. Dolby Vision vs HDR

This is kind of still a proverbial bag of hurt as competing standards often are. DV looks better to me than HDR10 (even though my TV only support DV at 24 or 30). It would be nice if the TV auto switched to the right setting. My only real choices here when watching a DV source are to switch it manually or live with the slightly less fantastic HDR 10 picture. This is the definition of an embarrassment of riches I know, but still it would be nice for it to auto-switch. On the other hand I probably only watch 1-2 DV titles a week so it's not all that constant a pain.

The moral of the story here is I'm sticking with the ATV 4K despite its short coming after seriously considering returning it.

My Roku Premier+ has been a royal pain with handshake and HDCP issues. The UI is fine but a bit clunky and it does only turn on HDR when needed. On the other hand there's no Dolby Vision at all. In summation switch to DV on ATV 4K sporadically is much less painful than my Rokus have been.

FireTV is pushing banner ads not only on various pages but actually as item in content carousels. Plus Amazon pushes Amazon WAY too much for my tastes and I love my Amazon Prime Video. A good UI has been destroyed by these things IMO and it's a deal breaker for me.

nVidia shield is the only other option realistically and does have some good features but auto refresh rate switching is a bit flaky as is HD audio. Plus, I am constantly annoyed by the UI and finding content. Again the pain point is constant and much higher than the occasional manual switching to DV on the ATV 4K

Your mileage may vary.
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post #5680 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:06 AM
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Glad it's working for you. I'm keeping mine but am using all the manual setting change options since judder and inaccurate color & gamma and burning up power and raising the black floor on upconversions is not acceptable to me for sdr.

FYI, There are multiple streaming services offering Atmos at present and chances are good more will in the future.
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post #5681 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:11 AM
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Glad it's working for you. I'm keeping mine but am using all the manual setting change options since judder and inaccurate color & gamma and burning up power and raising the black floor on upconversions is not acceptable to me for sdr.

FYI, There are multiple streaming services offering Atmos at present and chances are good more will in the future.
Power consumption is a very good point to consider.

Who is offering Atmos streams? On what device? I'd like to try it.

I'm really surprised you're getting judder. My AVR had to be set to ByPass mode in the HDMI setting for video to get the unadulterated signal to the TV. Perhaps check your AVR settings?
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post #5682 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:12 AM
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Choosing Video Preference at Startup
Like many of you, I have to switch back and forth between SDR and DV. Not the worst thing ever. What does annoy me is that after the unit goes to sleep and then re-awakes, I'm getting the "Let's Try Dolby Vision" screen which promptly freezes, forcing me to restart the ATV. This has happened at least 4 times in the 5 days I've had it. Anyone else experiencing this issue?
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post #5683 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JMGNYC View Post
Power consumption is a very good point to consider.

Who is offering Atmos streams? On what device? I'd like to try it.

I'm really surprised you're getting judder. My AVR had to be set to ByPass mode in the HDMI setting for video to get the unadulterated signal to the TV. Perhaps check your AVR settings?
Vudu has UHD titles with Atmos, and also Netflix recently started to add Atmos to some of the titles (specifically Okja, BLAME! and Death Note, with more to come).
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post #5684 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by colin_h View Post
I had the same issue. I have a Harmony remote and a Denon receiver. I first saw it a few days ago on the old Apple TV after the last software update and then again when I set up the 4K Apple TV. I assumed that Apple changed something with whatever key combinations they use to turn it on/off (there is no off button on the Apple remote). And whatever they changed is no longer compatible with the Harmony remote. I don’t know for sure that that is the cause, but my solution works.

Just change your Harmony settings so that it leaves the Apple TV on and doesn’t try to turn it on or off. I also changed the Apple TV settings so that it doesn’t go to sleep but I doubt that’s necessary.

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Great information, I was getting so frustrated that the last thing I tried was connecting directly to TV instead of the Denon AVR but that didn't make a difference. I will try these Harmony changes and connect to AVR again. Thanks!
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post #5685 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TohaLA View Post
Vudu has UHD titles with Atmos, and also Netflix recently started to add Atmos to some of the titles (specifically Okja, BLAME! and Death Note, with more to come).
I don't particularly like Vudu.

What device can play Atmos from Netflix? That sounds interesting (pardon the pun)!
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post #5686 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by colin_h View Post
I had the same issue. I have a Harmony remote and a Denon receiver. I first saw it a few days ago on the old Apple TV after the last software update and then again when I set up the 4K Apple TV. I assumed that Apple changed something with whatever key combinations they use to turn it on/off (there is no off button on the Apple remote). And whatever they changed is no longer compatible with the Harmony remote. I don’t know for sure that that is the cause, but my solution works.

Just change your Harmony settings so that it leaves the Apple TV on and doesn’t try to turn it on or off. I also changed the Apple TV settings so that it doesn’t go to sleep but I doubt that’s necessary.

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Great information, I was getting so frustrated that the last thing I tried was connecting directly to TV instead of the Denon AVR but that didn't make a difference. I will try these Harmony changes and connect to AVR again. Thanks!
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post #5687 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
I should have mentioned that the HDMI does not pass 4K. Using Optical cable to soundbar. Since it has an IR emitter I guess I can hope that it can be taught to work.

Gerry

Yes you can teach it and it is innovative. You actually teach the Apple TV and then the AppleTV teaches the Apple TV remote through Bluetooth or Wi-Fi or whatever. It is like magic. . You go through the setup menus in Apple TV and tell that you want to control the volume of an external device like a receiver. It will ask you to use the external device’s IR remote to perform actions that the Apple TV can then detect and pass along the code to the Apple TV remote. From then on the remote will replicate those iR signals to control the external device for volume up and down.


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post #5688 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:31 AM
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I don't particularly like Vudu.

What device can play Atmos from Netflix? That sounds interesting (pardon the pun)!
Devices that support Dolby Atmos with Netflix:
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/64066

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post #5689 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:32 AM
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My receiver (Marantz SR6011) updated itself yesterday to add support for DolbyVision passthrough. It was interesting to see that the AppleTV 4K immediately detected this and prompted me to ask if I wanted to try Dolby Vision on the AppleTV. As soon as I said yes, the display refreshed and the DolbyVision logo popped up. I will say the "city flythru view" screensaver is really breathtaking on my OLED in DolbyVision mode...
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post #5690 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:53 AM
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Anyone have the Apple TV 4K connected to a 2016 LG OLED? I have a B6 model but still thinking about purchasing the new Apple TV 4K. I just want to know of the experience so far between the two devices. Thank you!
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post #5691 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 09:58 AM
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Anyone have the Apple TV 4K connected to a 2016 LG OLED? I have a B6 model but still thinking about purchasing the new Apple TV 4K. I just want to know of the experience so far between the two devices. Thank you!
I have the combo and it works great. There are some negatives though - DV is limited to 30Hz on the B6. But fortunately, ATV5 allows you to set it to 24Hz which is what most sources you will want DV for ... stream in.

The B6 does not send ATMOS via ARC ... your DV and ATMOS capable receiver needs to be able to process (my 646 does not). I plan to get a HDMI splitter to send DV to B6 and ATMOS to receiver. Yet to test it out.
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post #5692 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 10:12 AM
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I have the combo and it works great. There are some negatives though - DV is limited to 30Hz on the B6. But fortunately, ATV5 allows you to set it to 24Hz which is what most sources you will want DV for ... stream in.



The B6 does not send ATMOS via ARC ... your DV and ATMOS capable receiver needs to be able to process (my 646 does not). I plan to get a HDMI splitter to send DV to B6 and ATMOS to receiver. Yet to test it out.


Sweet! Yes the limitation for 30Hz Dolby Vision worried me since the B6 doesn’t support 60 but I’m glad to see that the option to use 24Hz is there on the new Apple TV 4K. I think I am going to just take the jump. Seems to be worth it especially if they continue to add new features etc.

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post #5693 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 10:34 AM
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A few musings after another night of using the device:

I'm surprised that Apple was so afraid of output switching. When you go to settings and change DV/60 to HDR/60 or whatnot, this box has some of the fastest and most stable connection establishment I've seen.

I did get the DV tags in Netflix. I had to actually play a piece of content in DV, now they show up as expected.

Showed my wife Deadpool on UHD BD vs. iTunes HDR and she couldn't tell a difference.

Watched a couple episodes of Narcos S3 on Netfix (UHD only show) with output set to DV/60. It actually looked good to me. I liked the added HDR conversion, although I didn't directly A/B compare.

Panning, judder, and such were non-issues on my P75 without output set at 60 Hz. Although, still had lip sync issues. Running at 24 Hz output negated lip sync concerns though.

Interface doesn't actually look all that bad at 24 Hz anyway. Auto switching would be so good though to get a 60 Hz UI and 24 Hz locked lip sync video.


The P75 should have the same pull down correction is my P65 does. Just turn on film mode or whatever it’s called in settings. It will detect a 60hz signal with repeated frames and correct it. Should essentially be the same as 24hz.


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post #5694 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 10:36 AM
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So my HDMI cable is a little iffy with Dolby Vision. Passes the test, but several times per hour I’ll get a garbled mess on half my screen. Are Amazon Basics good to go?


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post #5695 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 10:48 AM
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just saw tvos beta 11.1 link appear in apple dev
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post #5696 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by kjhawkm123 View Post
Has anyone tried routing the ATV 4K through a HDMI splitter to route video to the TV / projector and audio to their receiver? If so does it still pass Dolby Vision?
I've been looking high and low for a splitter capable of doing this. Alas, my search has been fruitless. If anyone is aware of such a device, please do share!
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post #5697 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 11:04 AM
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You'd think the streams would have some kind of metadata describing what it is -- resolution, type of HDR, frame rate.

Why couldn't it auto-switch based on that?
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post #5698 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 11:04 AM
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You'd think the streams would have some kind of metadata describing what it is -- resolution, type of HDR, frame rate.

Why couldn't it auto-switch based on that?
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post #5699 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JMGNYC View Post
The key one to reset properly is Color Gamut. It should be set to Normal. I know that doesn't seem right but this video has proven true.
Holy hell I've been living a lie. I'm fixing this as soon as I get home.

Also, spot on post. I'm driving my C7 in Dolby Vision 24/7, and the SDR mapping appeared substantially better than the equivalent content in HDR10 (to the point that I don't even bother switching out for SDR anymore)…but the gamut setting is probably why.

Also, while this is a little stale (last updated in February), here's a partial list of modern TVs that properly pull 24fps from 60Hz 3:2:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p
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post #5700 of 6902 Old 09-27-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by alexh516 View Post
just saw tvos beta 11.1 link appear in apple dev


Way to early for them to add refresh rate switching, but I’m hopeful :-)


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